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kingpengvin
02-05-2003, 09:50 AM
Arrrgh can this season get any more frustrating. Subtly goes out the window in this episode as well as any sense of continuity with Trek and itself!!!

So now Vulcan mind melds are done by a "deviant" portion of the society which causes a disease by those involved. And those with the disease are not properly treated and stigmatized. Only those who were forced to mind meld might be an exception.

Hmmm Gee I wonder what issue they are discussing in such a cleverly disguised way. A brain-dead chimp could have made the connection (for those brain-dead chimps who didn't I'll say AIDS)

Why the hell has the Mind meld become a sexual act?!? First it was used to oh so subtly show date rape now it leaves a disease behind. Oh those clever creators have now f*cked up any sense of continuity.

So in 100 years or so the Vulcans all come out of the closet and start melding like it was 2199 even though they act like only a few can do it in this series. Also They are spreading some disease without warning beings first.?

And If the meld is sexual how do I take Spock's melding with Kirk, or the Horta or even Nomad. Damn what about the imposition of melding with McCoy in Star Trek II?!? How about Sareks demand
in Star Trek III for Kirk to Give him his thoughts?

It seems that the only two references they used were Spocks first Mind Meld and His last. In the first one (Dagger of the Mind) he mentions it is a personal and private thing Vulcan's never do often I believe he even used the word intimate (Of course he starts doing it left right and centre after that episode) The last occurs in Star Trek VI where he forcefully extracts the information from Valeris in what almost looks like mental rape. Now I can give that one leave as it seemed Spock was desperate and resorted to something he seemed to find distasteful himself.

Everything else is ignored and thrown out the window so they can make a statement.

That's not all. They even ignore things they themselves have created!

Though the characterization of Feezal (one of Phlox's wives) was not bad, especially how she mimicked Phlox's cadence when she spoke (nice touch), however suddenly Denoblians have no problem with physical intimate contact. The way She was pawing Tripp was ridiculous considering in "Dear Doctor" Phlox Bristled at the slightest touch of a hand.

Bricker
02-05-2003, 10:20 AM
In 1903, what do you suppose the reaction of society would be to a young women who admitted sleeping with her boyfriend after six months, or admitted to enjoying giving and receiving oral sex even though she was unmarried?

Yet here we are in 2003, when those admission would raise barely an eyebrow.

Social mores, on Vulcan as well as Earth, can change drastically in 100 years.

- Rick

kingpengvin
02-05-2003, 10:29 AM
Perhaps, but then again that behaviour is still frowned upon by many large powerful segments of our society today Say religious leaders and even some government leaders who speak out against pre marital relations. There are individuals who would still condemn those acts as sinful and wrong.

So even after 100 years it is merely tolerated not nescessarily completely accepted.

The fact is that this episode seems to equate the mind meld with a different type of "deviance". I'm sure that in that light it seems that it would not suddenly become everyone's lifestyle choice after 100 years.

Bricker
02-05-2003, 10:56 AM
On the contrary, kingpengvin - your post highlights the fallacy in accepting statements in one episode from a few people and applying them to an entire planetary society. If a viewer were to watch an episode of "The Humans," and hear Pat Robertson talk, he might well complain about the continuity problems when, next season, he heard Dan Savage talk. "Those whacky writers! Last season they established how humans believe homosexual conduct is wrong and will lead to eternal perdition; this season they are ignoring that!"

Kn*ckers
02-05-2003, 10:58 AM
Oh, cripes. Are you telling me this episode is going to be all tinged with psycho-social significance?
All I want is a little Panda in my life, goshdarnit... And maybe some nice big explosions.

Siiiiggh.

kingpengvin
02-05-2003, 11:16 AM
Bricker if it were the real world I'd agree with you, but in this series individuals are supposed to represent the whole culture.

These characters are the top Vulcan medical people (they are on high level symposium) Their attitudes represent the medical community. Each Vulcan Character say that there is an outright shunning of those "deviants" by the society as a whole. What am I to make of that? T'Pol says it each of the Doctors say it
the closet melder says it

But that isn't my main bone of contention. It is that suddenly what was originally a means to gain information in a an alien way has suddenly not only become equated with a sexual act but also now supposedly leaves a disease behind. I'm sorry but if my Vulcan buddy suggests melding with me I'd tell him to take a flying leap because of the effects it may have on me.

Are they suddenly going to explain it away? Oh it was just a conspiracy to keep people from Melding (a la "do that and you'll go blind") Phooey!

There was no need to do it, except to make a big Social Message episode that could have been done in any number of means without screwing around with the entire Seires (all forms of Trek) continuity.

Enterprise has been sadly lacking this season and it is mainly because it has strayed so far from its own history and continuity. I didn't mind the Vulcans being slightly demystified (They can lie and only state they don't) but they are going too far.

Amp
02-05-2003, 11:24 AM
Does she get a big red "M" sown on to her catsuit?

Bricker
02-05-2003, 12:11 PM
king, it wasn't very long ago that "top medical people" agreed that homosexuality was a disease.

I'm sorry - I don't accept your contention that a few people are representative of a whole species in the series. I remember when Tuvok was cast and some fans were discomfited - "Vulcans aren't BLACK!" In fact, the mere fact that we'd never before seen a black Vulcan meant nothing -- except the fact that we'd never seen one before. Any inference you might have drawn from the previous lack of any black Vulcans was suspect.

Same thing here.

- Rick

kingpengvin
02-05-2003, 12:37 PM
Tu...vok????
Sorry that name doesn't register neither does the series that he was supposedly in and never happened. ;)


Ok fine I won't split hairs.
But I will be slightly sarcastic.

The creators of Enterprise are right Mind melding was secretive thing (or maybe not because the doctors were lying), that was only done by a select few (or maybe everyone on Vulcan except the ones on this show and of course the episode "FUSION" that made mind melding look like something foreign to even T'Pol) but 100 years later many key members of Vulcan society have accepted it and use it in front of anyone at any time.

There I said it :p


None of that changes the fact that those same creators have totally f*cked up what a mind meld is supposed to be by unnecessarily adding these new connotations.

In the original series it was a plot device used to avoid boring interrogations that gave the Vulcan's a sense of mystical and alienness (At least that was what the creators intended)

Now it is used to symbolize not just sex but it also carries the mental equivalent of STDs I mean what the hell?

Is the Nerve Pinch now a homeopathic remedy practiced only by elders that leaves physiological damage or maybe now there is a Vulcan Death grip!

Or perhaps we'll get to see someone practice Fal tor pan (The refusion) even though the high priestess previously stated that it had not practiced in millennia and even then only in legend.

You need to keep some semblance of continuity.

Tars Tarkas
02-05-2003, 01:09 PM
but the important thing is.....is Hoshi naked?

kingpengvin
02-05-2003, 01:42 PM
No, but there is a footsie bit, also not involving Hoshi

Cervaise
02-05-2003, 04:21 PM
Originally posted by Amp
Does she get a big red "M" sown on to her catsuit? Or maybe a swoopy gold mask (http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/terrifica021105.html).

AncientHumanoid
02-05-2003, 04:55 PM
AIDS, huh?

Isn't it queer that there has never been an openly gay character on any Trek? Where have they all gone by the 23rd 24th centuries?

Please note that I'm not saying AIDS is a gay disease. I know better.

But, you guys are probably right about Berman airing a "statement" show. This has been happening a lot.

I miss Firefly.

However, Trek is my family, so I'll always be here for them. Just, I sometimes gets mads ats them, hmmmm?

Wearia
02-05-2003, 06:39 PM
I think the mind melding fits. Its the nest step in Vulcan evolution and by Kirk's time just about everyone has it.
Otherwise a fairly weak episode but pretty good compared to the others. The high note was seeing the Panda tap dance for the Koalas heart. Brought a tear to my eye.

AncientHumanoid
02-05-2003, 08:31 PM
Ugh.

Pretty heavy handed on the "message," don't you think?

It also make the Vulcans look like Jack Chick. :dubious:

Overall, a weak episode. I have to rate this one as a negative.

The only thing this ep did is introduce the Star Trek humans to the idea of mind melding. It could have, should have been handled differently.

P'Nar Syndrome. Meh.

I said, meh.

AncientHumanoid
02-05-2003, 08:48 PM
blah blah blah blah predjudice

blah blah blah blah minority

blah blah blah blah morality

blah blah blah blah unnaproved acts

blah blah blah blah they deserve it

God Damn It! Entertain us! I already get enough preaching from Fred Phelps!

This rant is brought to you by a guy who keeps e-mailing Paramount for decent Enterprise episodes.



Stupid Enterprise. Be more Star Trekky!




Poor Mayweather. He finally gets to go on screen with lines (monkey in the middle?), and he gets interrupted by Trip midsentence...

Monstre
02-05-2003, 09:38 PM
from Amp
Does she get a big red "M" sown on to her catsuit?
How about if they just cut a big "M" pattern out of the front of her catsuit? :D

from NoClueBoy
Stupid Enterprise. Be more Star Trekky!
Agreed! Weak episode... Any chance we could get an episode where Vulcans aren't portrayed as major assholes?

carnivorousplant
02-05-2003, 09:43 PM
From another thread I started before I saw youse guys...

I'm beginning to become annoyed with Enterprise. It takes a lot to get me hacked at Trek. I like Voyager.

How long have they got to make mind melds available to everyone given that Vulcans live to be 150-200? Picard shared Spock's father's with Spock. Come to think of it, T'pel told Sarek "What thee asks has not been done since ages past", and melded to reformat Spock with his katra.

I think this violates canon no matter what they make up to straighten it out.
Enterprise, like Voyager became "The Seven Of Nine Show", or "Star Trek-Big Tits" is becoming the "T'Pol Show".

Silentgoldfish
02-05-2003, 10:11 PM
Originally posted by carnivorousplant

I think this violates canon no matter what they make up to straighten it out.
Enterprise, like Voyager became "The Seven Of Nine Show", or "Star Trek-Big Tits" is becoming the "T'Pol Show".

And THAT's why I haven't watched anything since the Pilot episode. Pander to me sure, but don't be so fucking obvious about it :mad: .

kingpengvin
02-05-2003, 10:29 PM
I don't mind preachy messages so long as they are subtle and entertaining.
Old school Trek was preachy but it still knew it had to entertain. I can handle a lesson on the balance of power and the cold war politics of vietnam as long as there was a Mugatoo attack, and a few fisticuffs to catch my attention.
This on the other hand is just wrongheaded and dull.

AncientHumanoid
02-05-2003, 10:34 PM
Ooooh, but on the other hand...

Next week's looks cool.

Damn! I got a Tribble on my back.

tarragon918
02-05-2003, 10:34 PM
Ah well, I was entertained by the episode, but...

1) Yes, I too would like to see an episode where Vulcan's are not portrayed as major assholes, or pricks, as the case may be. ;) I'm still wondering why they all have to have the same hair style, one that the Romulans seem doomed to have as well. :D

2) The message was obviously AIDS-related, and was definitely a bit too preachy, IMO.

I did enjoy the scenes with Phlox and his second wife -- boy those Denubians (is that right?!) sure have ... er different ideas about relationships, don't they?! Talk about open marriages! And good ole Trip seems to be an alien chick magnet! Boy, now I'll really have to campaign for a female Tellarite. :D

Ephemera
02-05-2003, 11:02 PM
I can't decide if I should be happy or annoyed at not having UPN and thus unable to watch Enterprise. On the one hand, it's Trek and I want to see it but on the other, I'm not so sure it is.

I'd be seriously relieved if, in five years (this is only season two, right?), Archer wakes up in a cold sweat to find it was all just a dream or somethin'. They're totally screwin' up the timeline here.

SLASH
02-05-2003, 11:12 PM
Some people have suggested that Enterprise takes place in an alternate timeline, and thus anything that happens on it doesn't affect the other Trek series.

AncientHumanoid
02-05-2003, 11:24 PM
I've run across that myself, SLASH, but AFAIK there is nothing canon on that subject.

Unless it's coming up... Another Daniels show?

Ephemera
02-05-2003, 11:45 PM
I like that idea, SLASH, but until Paramount says it isn't canon, it unfortunately is.

After all, there're alot of people out there that wish to disregard Voyager since it played fast and loose with Trek lore but it is still canon.. somethin' tells me Enterprise will be too and it's just wishful thinking.

vivalostwages
02-06-2003, 02:54 AM
Didn't anybody else catch the oh-so-subtle AIDS/HIV information ad at the end of the show? One does get tired of being clubbed over the head. Still, it's better than "Marauders" or "Vanishing Point" (not saying much, I realize).

Otherwise, I'm with tarragon; the B-story was fun. Pheezil Phlox (dang, that's a great username!) was quite entertaining to watch, as was Trip's discomfiture.
"You can pull it out now." :D
[If a Vulcan pulls out from a mind meld too soon, is that a premature.....Never mind.]

What's "Monkey in the Middle" ??

vivalostwages
02-06-2003, 03:22 AM
Originally posted by tarragon918

SNIP

I did enjoy the scenes with Phlox and his second wife -- boy those Denubians (is that right?!) sure have ... er different ideas about relationships, don't they?! Talk about open marriages! And good ole Trip seems to be an alien chick magnet! Boy, now I'll really have to campaign for a female Tellarite. :D
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Denobulons. ;)

Now I'm thinking that Phlox and Pheezil would have enjoyed a three-way if Trip had agreed to it!
Am I really so far off?

Kn*ckers
02-06-2003, 07:37 AM
viva, that's the sickest thing I've ever heard. Great idea!


As for this episode, yuck. Yuck. Yuck. I don't watch Enterprise to be preached to. I watch it to be entertained by a silly space story. I feel kind of guilty, though, because I know it was for a good cause, and they were trying to do something helpful, but for crying out loud, just give me a break and lemme relax for once, couldja?

Also, I see that the teaser for the next one bills it as a Timely Enterprise; Looks like it's going to be an allegory for the Mideast Crisis. Super. Ladies and Gentlemen, welcome to the season of Very Special Episodes.

Kn(can T'Pol please fall down a turbolift shaft? PLEASE?)ckers

kingpengvin
02-06-2003, 08:17 AM
And movie plot rip offs!

athelas
02-06-2003, 08:21 AM
Aaagh! This one was about as subtle as a sledgehammer. Have B&B been taking too much LDS?

Ethilrist
02-06-2003, 08:46 AM
Monkey in the middle. (http://eteamz.com/soccer/pills/pill061.htm) Sort of a combination of dodge ball, keepaway, and soccer.

The big continuity flaw for me overall with Enterprise is that they are portraying the Vulcans as being so mean! All that prejudice is illogical, and emotionally based.

Now, granted, T'Pol having this disease also helps explain why she's not bolted down too tight--this, combined with the memory suppression explained in The Seventh means she's probably a couple phase inducers short of a full warp core, if you get my meaning...

ivylass
02-06-2003, 09:06 AM
I loved how Pheezil had the same big Joker smile as Phlox, and how she even spoke the same way...very nice.

I wonder if Pheezil and Phlox ever (ahem) reunited on this visit. Phlox shrugged it off, saying they were a very patient people. Okay, but it's been four years! Damn, man!

And if Phlox doesn't have a problem sharing his wife, how come he pushed away that ensign who had a crush on him? Apparently they don't have the same mores on fidelity that humans do, so why didn't he take her up on her offer?

kingpengvin
02-06-2003, 10:57 AM
'cause she was an icky human.. I mean have you seen what fluids and vapours those things excrete on a daily basis... Disgusting!

Monstre
02-06-2003, 11:06 AM
Originally posted by ivylass
And if Phlox doesn't have a problem sharing his wife, how come he pushed away that ensign who had a crush on him? Apparently they don't have the same mores on fidelity that humans do, so why didn't he take her up on her offer?

Well, she probably just didn't float his boat. Now if it was Hoshi, he probably would have done her in a heartbeat. (Well, I know I would have... ;) )

carnivorousplant
02-06-2003, 11:30 AM
When TOS dealt with the West military supporting the good guyd vs. Godless commies supporting the bad guys, it was current and controversial. Only Pat Robertson would want AIDS victims to go untreated. It just seems the way to write Trek to these dummies.

Did the Pheezil actress play the altered Cardassian spy on Voyager? (Chakotay: "Was anyone working for me?")

Tripp couldn't have a relationship with the wife because of life long Southern be a nice guy. Same reason I can't stop saying "Yes Mam" and "No Mam". My Mama would slap me.
^:)^

JThunder
02-06-2003, 11:35 AM
Say, you don't suppose this episode was about HIV, do you?

kingpengvin
02-06-2003, 01:05 PM
:dubious: you know I never thought about that!

Wow what a subtle way to show the human condition!
They should have had a Mugatoo!

I like large white horned monkeys

Sycorax
02-06-2003, 01:35 PM
Well I'm glad to see that at least some of you guys are moving past your adolescent stage and getting tired of the obvious pandering. I don't see the problem with continuity -- yeah, the preaching was a bit much, but it makes sense to me that a practice once considered abhorrent can become the "norm" in any society. It added another dimension to the Vulcans, and it helped make T'Pol a teeny bit more likeable. The character, that is -- I still don't like Jolene's portrayal of her. I always thought she came off as stiff and robotic-like, but I noticed for the first time that she stands and walks around with her arms held stiffly back -- trying to make those fake boobs even more obvious maybe? I didn't like
Voyager's pandering with 7 of 9 either, but I liked the character and the actress.
As for Phlox's wife -- she weirded me out. just too obvious and inappropriate. Whether the Denobians have open marriages or not, you just don't go aboard a ship (or anywhere) to conduct business and immediately start obvious flirting with the crew. So what was Trip supposed to do with her in his face -- throw her to floor and do her right there? or say "okay lady, we'll get it on later, but for right now help me figure out this microscope." The series needs more humor, but this was a ridiculous scenario. BRING BACK VOYAGER!!!

kingpengvin
02-06-2003, 01:42 PM
But if the mind meld wasn't the norm how do you explain the concepts of the Kartra and Fal tor Pan which are described as ancient Vulcan rights involving... The mind meld.

The Vulcan's for the most part in this series have no dimensions except for Scowling snooty plot devices to either A) Impede Archer and crew's exploration by refusing to give information or B) Threaten to take away T'Pol from Archer.

Only in the first episode with the Andorians, and the two episodes with the renegade Vulcans (one was teh story of T'Pol's grandmother) did they have an interesting dimension.

Cervaise
02-06-2003, 02:00 PM
This stupid show just gets worse and worse.

Now, to be fair, I suppose it's remotely possible the Vulcans would behave like that. Yes, they have their established ideals and philosophy, but it's not like we in the United States haven't occasionally woken up and suddenly realized something like, "Oh, right, it's a bad idea to put that ethnic minority into prison camps. How could we have been so stupid. Oops." So I guess it's theoretically possible that the show is suggesting that the Vulcans are failing to live up to their own standards, but don't realize it.

And there's a slim chance that this is an element of a major story arc for Enterprise, showing over the course of the series's run how the Vulcans, ostensibly much more advanced and powerful than humanity, faded in importance by the time of Kirk and his successors. I mean, Earth serves as the capital of the Federation in a couple of hundred years, and the Vulcans have become a decidedly minor player. How?

I've said this before: Enterprise has the potential to do for the Vulcans what Next Gen did for Klingons. There could be a long, complicated story arc where human influence indirectly causes a major upheaval in Vulcan culture. The mind meld would become accepted; the "minority" would be tolerated and assimilated. As the Vulcans are distracted by internal struggles, the way is cleared for humanity to take the leading role in the sector. This would play out all the way through the end of the seventh season (assuming they stick with Trek precedent).

So that's possible. Do I think it's likely? Not at all. I have no faith that Berman and Braga can keep their eye on the ball for that long. I mean, shit, the only major arc they've tried to establish, with the Suliban and the temporal cold war, just plain doesn't work, and it appears they're trying to distance themselves from it, given how little attention they've paid to it so far this season.

Even this very episode highlights the weakness in the show's management of its writing. The A plot and the B plot directly contradict each other thematically, and the result is a split-personality story. Consider: In the A plot, the Vulcans are morally backward and the humans are trying to teach them a lesson. In the B plot, the Denobulans are sophisticated and the humans are stupidly unable to adapt to new cultures. I mean, what the hell?

Fire Berman and Braga and put me in charge. I'll give you Trek to remember. :mad:

(Oh, and yet again Mayweather gets shortchanged. This time when he's introduced we don't even get to see his face. He starts talking, and the camera focuses on his six-pack abs, and then pans away to the doctor. Christ almighty, the ship might as well be piloted by Joe Millionaire for all the impact the character has on the story.)

Ethilrist
02-06-2003, 02:07 PM
Originally posted by kingpengvin
But if the mind meld wasn't the norm how do you explain the concepts of the Kartra and Fal tor Pan which are described as ancient Vulcan rights involving... The mind meld.
Don't you get it? Within the next generation or so, the mind melders are going to take over! Whoever wins the war gets to write history. The katra and fal tor pan thing may be hidden, dark, not-spoken-of-in-polite-company secrets, but a hundred years from now, after the mind melders take over and rewrite history? They'll be ancient, traditional family rites.

Tars Tarkas
02-06-2003, 02:17 PM
Well, at least they didn't try to tell us an AIDS allegory with someone who was gay on the left side and straight on the right side, and a second dude who was vice versa....I'd have had to kill 100 yak if that happened.

carnivorousplant
02-06-2003, 02:38 PM
Originally posted by Cervaise


The A plot and the B plot directly contradict each other thematically,

I found that to be the high point and quite interesting. Whose culture is right and whose is wrong?

Monstre
02-06-2003, 02:39 PM
Originally posted by carnivorousplant
Did the Pheezil actress play the altered Cardassian spy on Voyager? (Chakotay: "Was anyone working for me?")
No. Seska was played by Martha Hackett. (http://us.imdb.com/Name?Hackett,+Martha).
Feezal was played by Melinda Page Hamilton. Here's one site (http://members.tripod.com/uss_saratoga/enterprise/episodes/140.html) that lists it, and this name matches what appeared in the opening credits.

----

Tars, you're cracking me up! :)

Captain Amazing
02-06-2003, 03:02 PM
Originally posted by kingpengvin
But if the mind meld wasn't the norm how do you explain the concepts of the Kartra and Fal tor Pan which are described as ancient Vulcan rights involving... The mind meld.

Maybe mind-melding was common and/or accepted on ancient Vulcan and they later turned away from the practice.

Skywatcher
02-06-2003, 03:12 PM
Originally posted by NoClueBoy
Another Daniels show? "Crash Landing" - February 19th
spoilers (http://talk.trekweb.com/articles/2003/01/29/1043873116.html)

kingpengvin
02-06-2003, 03:23 PM
Originally posted by Captain Amazing
Maybe mind-melding was common and/or accepted on ancient Vulcan and they later turned away from the practice.

Fair enough, that could be the way as well as the points others have made. But I hate the fact that now we have to unnecessarily do the mental gymnastics to explain away past references and this episode.

Much in the same way certain Star Wars guys won't admit that the "parsec" line was an obvious mistake and create all kinds of weird theories to make it work, we are now forced to recreate an entire new past for the Vulcans to make this fit with the rest of the cannon.

It is sloppy writing and wrongheadedness. they could have used another alien species to make the same point.

The gay on the left side idea is a far better method than this was. And would be more interesting to watch IMHO.
So long as they get Frank Gorshen to do one of the aliens.

Cervaise
02-06-2003, 03:34 PM
Originally posted by carnivorousplant
I found that to be the high point and quite interesting. Whose culture is right and whose is wrong? If they'd actually embraced the ambiguity, I'd be right there with you. But in the A plot, the humans were clearly right and the Vulcans clearly wrong. Now, if they'd had T'Pol taking the establishment position instead of the "enlightened" position, and somehow making a credible case for it, then they would've had something.

carnivorousplant
02-06-2003, 03:45 PM
Cervaise; I think that was the point. The Vulcans believed themselves to be just as "right" as Tripp felt himself to be. Most of us save for the Testsoteone Poisioned would agree with Tripp; yet from Phlox' viewpoint, he was wrong.

AncientHumanoid
02-06-2003, 04:40 PM
from Cervaise

I've said this before: Enterprise has the potential to do for the Vulcans what Next Gen did for Klingons. There could be a long, complicated story arc where human influence indirectly causes a major upheaval in Vulcan culture. The mind meld would become accepted; the "minority" would be tolerated and assimilated. As the Vulcans are distracted by internal struggles, the way is cleared for humanity to take the leading role in the sector. This would play out all the way through the end of the seventh season (assuming they stick with Trek precedent).



That might work... In STIV:TVH (there be whales here), the Klingon ambassador said of Vulcans: "Vulcans are well known as the intellectual puppets of the Federation!"

So, maybe... interaction with humans, or something in the Romulan War, causes a turn about. If that's so, Berman and Braga are geniuses for setting up such a condition and the excitement of seeing it evolve. If not, they're just irritating the fan base.

Spectre of Pithecanthropus
02-06-2003, 04:41 PM
Hear, hear, to all those complaining about the obvious moralizing. The AIDS public service announcement following the show was perfectly unnecessary.

Also the entire concept screamed plot discontinuity at me. How do we get from these widely prejudicial Vulcans in Archer's time, to the philosophy of IDIC in Kirk's? In Vulcan terms I don't know if that's even more than one lifetime. I'd always assumed that mind-melding should be looked upon as a form of intimacy sometimes, but not always, like sexual intercourse among humans; at any rate, something that would be considered normal and not deviant.

As for the visuals, I thought the scenes on Vulcan, and in T'Pol's shipboard quarters were fondly reminiscent of TOS. Slightly cheesy and contrived, yes, but for me that was always part of the original series' charm. I notice now that when I see an old move from the same period as ST:TOS, a lot of the visual effect is much the same even though it has nothing to do with science fiction.

carnivorousplant
02-06-2003, 04:46 PM
Originally posted by javaman
I thought the scenes on Vulcan,

Say what?

AncientHumanoid
02-06-2003, 04:49 PM
Yeah, not Vulcan. The Vulcans were there, yes, but not Vulcan. Anyone remember the name?

carnivorousplant
02-06-2003, 04:53 PM
Why did she have a suitcase? Why not an intergalactic B-4 bag or something? Can't you beam all your stuff into RAM or a CD when you move? ^:)^

Tars Tarkas
02-07-2003, 12:27 AM
you notice the size of her uniform? That suitcase was too big (i'm thinking Pringels can, like in Dilbert)

vivalostwages
02-07-2003, 12:42 AM
Originally posted by NoClueBoy
Yeah, not Vulcan. The Vulcans were there, yes, but not Vulcan. Anyone remember the name?
------------------------------------------------------------
It was planet something-Candy. Nikandi?

a35362
02-07-2003, 03:07 PM
Anyone else think that Archer's remark about "we have learned to celebrate our diversity" was a stretcher at best? Yes, the planet is shrinking all the time and we are more accepting than ever before blah blah blah, but I still think that (unfortunately) part of what makes us human is our tribalism. We are social creatures who want to belong and to fit in. We will always have disagreements about our values, which means some will be In and some will certainly be Out. Years ago I imagined that if we ever start colonizing other worlds as on Star Trek and Star Wars, there will inevitably be a Klan planet and a Mormon planet and a Las Vegas pleasure planet and whatever else we can imagine and establish.

FWIW I also think TOS's concept of IDIC (Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations) would be totally chaotic and most illogical. Only a Vulcan's concept of "diversity," whatever exciting ideas that might generate, would be accepted.

carnivorousplant
02-07-2003, 03:16 PM
Originally posted by a35362
"we have learned to celebrate our diversity" was a stretcher at best?

Only a Vulcan's concept of "diversity," would be accepted.

The concept of TOS was that humanity was united. This was altered a bit in DS9 when Sisco ranted about humanity was in paradise on earth, but not out in his area.

IDIC was a sales gimick to make money off the amulet. Shatner wouldn't wear it, so it fell to Nimoy. But I digress. The Enterprise Vulcans are quite different from those in the rest of Trek. Apparently they too will change with the series. I hope so.

elf6c
02-07-2003, 03:37 PM
Has anyone else given up on Enterprise yet?

Halfway through this season, I just stopped watching. Rehashed plots, stupid stories, bad acting, eye rolling continuity destruction, and sadly enough-- it was boring.

I watch the previews each week during Buffy, and I have not seen anything worth watching-- does next week look any better?

Heck, even Voyager was more enjoyable-- Voyager!


:(

Tars Tarkas
02-07-2003, 04:13 PM
Are the tholians next week? I need to see me some crystal aliens, so i can ask them about whether those people who like crystals and think they cure stuff are really worshiping Tholians

Cervaise
02-07-2003, 05:03 PM
Originally posted by elf6c
Has anyone else given up on Enterprise yet?Not yet, but I'm getting really close. I don't want to, because I bailed on Next Gen towards the end of the first season, and then when everybody said it had suddenly figured itself out midway through season three, I had a lot of catching up to do. I figure I'll give it to the end of the current season, and then decide over the summer break whether or not to tune in for season three. If this last show had been the season finale, the answer would be no. :mad:

Sycorax
02-07-2003, 05:35 PM
I'm real close to giving up on it, but can't quite do it...I keep hoping it'll get better, but I think I'm also afraid that if Enterprise fails, there won't be any more ST series.
Carnivorousplant: Refresh my memory. I'm a real fan of TOS - even have most of them on tape, but I don't recall the IDIC thing and the amulet...does this mean I'm not a trekkie? :eek:
Tars: next week: Andorians.

AncientHumanoid
02-07-2003, 06:47 PM
It was featured in the show that had Diana Muldar as a blind woman wearing a sensor net. Spock mind melded with an energy (?) being to give it the chance to feel and see.

AncientHumanoid
02-07-2003, 06:48 PM
Is There In Truth No Beauty?

I'll have to double check the ep name...

carnivorousplant
02-07-2003, 06:56 PM
Courtesy of Mrs. Plant:
Is There No Truth in Beauty?
Spock wore it on a chain in honor of Miranda Jones.
He wore it pinned to his dress uniforn in another episode perhaps Journey to Babel.

Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combination combining to create truth and beauty.

AncientHumanoid
02-07-2003, 07:05 PM
Hah! My name (http://ericweisstein.com/fun/startrek/IsThereInTruthNoBeauty.html) was the right one!

I'm the geek! Yeah, baby!

AncientHumanoid
02-07-2003, 07:19 PM
Sure was hard to find a pic. (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2157409496&category=155)

(This page won't last long.)

Sycorax
02-07-2003, 07:26 PM
Oh yes - I DO remember that one, and the title too - I guess I can still claim to be a trekkie. Thanks.

raisinbread
02-07-2003, 07:42 PM
Originally posted by NoClueBoy
Isn't it queer that there has never been an openly gay character on any Trek? Where have they all gone by the 23rd 24th centuries?


Well perhaps in those centuries it isn't that important for gay people to have outrageous parades and wear pink triangles or have a "We're here, we're queer, deal with it" attitude because nobody bats an eye at that particular lifestlye after first contact with alien cultures.

Anyway this episode was bad. Seriously bad. Heavy handed poopstink this side of that Wesley Crusher episode about the addictive game!!!

This kind of moralism was cute in the sixties because most people weren't that open minded but nowadays they're playing to the people who already agree rather than challenging them with new ideas or outlooks.

raisinbread
02-07-2003, 07:47 PM
Oh yeah, I still watch Enterprise because it's a reason to hang out with my friends. I would stop watching the show if I didn't have company especially after a recent episode where some colony of nameless foreheads was being harassed by the GENTLEST KLINGONS EVER who ran away after being shown a bonfire.
A BONFIRE???
Kruge from Search for Spock is spinning in his mother's womb (because he wasn't born yet).

Had the Klingons in that episode been true Klingons there would have been plenty of heads rolling, blood spattering the sand and maybe Hoshi being caught naked in the shower with T'Pol

carnivorousplant
02-07-2003, 07:51 PM
Ha!

Sure, after Mrs. Plant explains it to us, we're all Trekkers.

And she has TWO of them.

From conventions, presume...I hope.

Excuse me, I have to go now.

Tars Tarkas
02-07-2003, 07:51 PM
Those were Klingoffs, not Klingons!

carnivorousplant
02-07-2003, 07:59 PM
Tars, did you give Mrs. Plant any jewelry?

Tars Tarkas
02-08-2003, 12:26 AM
Uh, no......::hides Mr. T's gold chains::

emarkp
02-08-2003, 02:12 PM
Originally posted by elf6c
Has anyone else given up on Enterprise yet?I barely lasted the first season. When I started watching Firefly (which I considered to be more faithful to the human condition) I simply lost interest in Enterprise.

Funny, the same thing happened with Voyager. I could barely stand watching it, but once I started watching Babylon 5, Voyager couldn't hold my attention.

Captain Amazing
02-09-2003, 12:26 AM
Originally posted by kingpengvin
Fair enough, that could be the way as well as the points others have made. But I hate the fact that now we have to unnecessarily do the mental gymnastics to explain away past references and this episode.

Well, mindmeld Doctor guy did say "We're less tolerant now than 1000 years ago."

But, every Star Trek has elements that contradicted other ones. The Klingons change from bad guys with tans, goatees, and chainmail in TOS to honorable allies with ridges on their heads in TNG. The Trill in DS9 are nothing like the Trill in TNG. The Borg were totally reconceived in Voyager, etc.

vivalostwages
02-09-2003, 12:32 AM
I wish they'd at least make an attempt to write Mayweather into the show in a way that isn't so frequently contrived. ("Oops, got the script done but just realized that Travis isn't in it. Let's throw in a scene that has little or no point so the guy can have a little screen time and a few lines." :rolleyes: )

I've got a student named Harry Kim (really), but I'm thinking of changing his name on my roll sheet to Travis Mayweather--you know why? 'Cuz he doesn't show up to class very often!

Badge
02-09-2003, 10:49 AM
Well, I'm pretty much ready to give up on Enterprise. Lack of continuity just drives me crazy!

I'm willing (barely) to accept the idea that the mind meld will become common in the next century or so, and maybe the ancient traditions they talk about in later years are things that were surpressed then later reestablished.

But in the episode with the emotional Vulcans, the one who melds with T'Pol tells her about it as something she would never have heard of. "It's called a mind meld", or something to that effect. Yet now all Vulcans know about it, even if they do abhor the practice.

I'll check out the Tholians, but that's probably it for me.

carnivorousplant
02-09-2003, 10:59 AM
Klingons-Micahael Ansera and his guys in Day of the Dove had copper skin. The guys in Trouble with Tribbles were caucasian. This was a screw up and it was decided that Klingons had races.
The ridges is just having more money for makeup. Roddenberry diid it in Star Trek the Motion Picture. The enemy vs. allies aspect-I believe they were both over the run of DS9, but that is politics (Greek, poly=many and OE, ticks=blood sucking) and story telling.

raisinbread
02-09-2003, 01:17 PM
I have a problem with all the Vulcans being emotional or edgy after hundreds of years of refining their logic and control. They donít come across like the icicle that Spock portrayed himself as in the original series.
I just hope that Paramount takes Enterprise or the entire Star Trek franchise away from the current production team and give it to someone who is competent and do not preach to the choir.

OpalCat
02-09-2003, 05:39 PM
I liked it.
But then, you'd be hard pressed to come up with a Star Trek episode that I actively *disliked*

About the best you'll get is "I've seen it too many times and it's getting old"

vivalostwages
02-09-2003, 07:11 PM
I'm gonna watch 'em all, good, bad, or ugly, to the bitter end. It could wind up being the Opal and Viva show if no one wants to hang out in the ENT threads anymore.
(Special guest appearances by NoClueBoy and possibly Chuck Forbin, who always had a defense ready for every ep.) ;)

Tars Tarkas
02-09-2003, 07:12 PM
I think the threads are regularly more entertaining than the actual show. We need other shows we do weekly weirdo-fests on also.

AncientHumanoid
02-09-2003, 07:22 PM
How about Austin City Limits?

I'm listening to Stevie Ray play Little Sister right now and I couldn't be happier.

Well, I could be happier...

[goes into kitchen thingy and mixes a drink, Crown and Coke]

There... now I'm happier!

AncientHumanoid
02-09-2003, 07:29 PM
I'll watch Enterprise like I did DS9 if'n it doesn't get better. I watched DS9 when I was home and it was on and I didn't forget. 'Cause it wasn't that interesting to me.

ENT needs to pick it up and get gooder!

I rarely missed TNG. Even though it had some stinker shows, it was good overall. ENT has been well below Trek par so far this season, with a couple of redeeming eps.

Don't worry, Viva. I'll never leave you.

"Stay alive! I will find you!"

vivalostwages
02-09-2003, 08:01 PM
Well, NCB, that's a relief, because talking to myself in a thread would have been far beyond pathetic. I am touched (in the head, too--ha ha!) and you're gonna make me cry like the sap that I truly am.

Ephemera
02-09-2003, 10:56 PM
I don't even get UPN and yet I post in Enterprise threads.

Gah, I need a life.

kingpengvin
02-10-2003, 08:42 AM
I will not give up and I only bitch because I care.
(at least that's what I say to my kids when I'm mad at them)

Unfortunately I will be working Tuesday and won't get a chance to post the spoiler. Dang!

I just wish there was a way to make them listen to fans... but then again there are so many different and weird ideas out there from weird and different fans it would probably be maddening. So instead, I wish they'd listen to the Straight Dope Fans!

Kn*ckers
02-10-2003, 09:00 AM
Yeah, I can't give up Enterprise. It's tripe, but it's familiar tripe, and I have a nostalgic attachment to all things Trek... Well, most things Trek. Wasn't enough to make me stick with Voyager, but Enterprise has better uniforms (love those jumpsuits), and somewhat more likable characters, so that's got to count for something. Like it or not, I'm in it for the long haul.

Plus, I've got to have something to come in and bitch about every week. :)

elf6c
02-10-2003, 09:57 AM
Thanks for the posts guys and gals! I agree that these threads are the most enjoyable parts of the show.

Sad part is that I wanted to like the show. I liked the concept. I liked the first season more often then not. Heck, I even liked the theme song.

But this second season has been mostly horrific. Badly done rehashes of prior TNG and ST themes, along with several blatent ripoffs of Sci-Fi movies (Enemy Mine ect. . . ). This is the reverse of the typical ST pattern- real bad first season, strong second, great third.

I even watched the last 2 seasons of Voyager! But now I tape the episodes but never bother watching them. Darn it, I want the show to be good. Oh well, I will keep an eye on the previews and look to hop back in when the shows pick back up.

Based on the posts, it is nice to see Travis is still playing an integral role on the show. ;)

Ethilrist
02-10-2003, 12:57 PM
Originally posted by Badge
But in the episode with the emotional Vulcans, the one who melds with T'Pol tells her about it as something she would never have heard of. "It's called a mind meld", or something to that effect. Yet now all Vulcans know about it, even if they do abhor the practice.
The more serious continuity blip is that T'Pol consented to the mind meld. It went deeper than she planned, which is why she broke out of it, but she gave total consent for the guy to reach in and touch her thoughts. Funny how she didn't mention that in this episode; think it might have been held against her? :rolleyes:

kingpengvin
02-10-2003, 01:48 PM
We weren't supposed to remember the first one... just the second more forced one. You know we are just slack jawed viewers who aren't smart enough to remember these things.

kasuo
02-10-2003, 02:02 PM
I don't know.. this show has been going into the toilet since the "Carbon Creek" episode.

I haven't really been all too interested in watching the show and don't necessarily care if I miss the Wednesday night ep or even the Sunday night re-run. I guess it's more entertaining to read about it here in CPlant's spoilers threads.

Maybe I'll watch the eps that involve Andorians. It's always great to see a disguised Vorta. :D

carnivorousplant
02-10-2003, 02:56 PM
Originally posted by kasuo
I guess it's more entertaining to read about it here in CPlant's spoilers threads.


Thanks a lot, kasuo.
Now I have to worry and Bragga's hit men showing up at my house.
And not a plasma shotgun (or whatever the guy had in Broken Arrow) in sight.

^:)^

Kn*ckers
02-10-2003, 03:43 PM
Yeah, the SDMB discussions are the funnest part of Enterprise for me, at this point.

I agree with whichever of you said last season was way better. Who was it? ... who was it?

*scrolling up to re-read previous posts*

elf6c. I agree with elf6c about how last season was better.

And I used to like the theme song, too, but I realized recently that it's actually pretty dumb and bad. So I don't like it much anymore.

carnivorousplant
02-10-2003, 05:06 PM
Will you guys can it? I've already got Paramount guys in Bermuda shorts and argyle socks sneaking around the office. Thank God they don't let them have any sharp objects.

I think they're after my time travel Canuck Satellite Thingie.
Damn you Crewman Daniels, damn you!

kasuo
02-10-2003, 05:12 PM
Hey cplant, I think you can avoid Braga's goons by using Comic Book Guy's prototype of the only working phaser that was used to keep Shatner from making another ST movie.

carnivorousplant
02-10-2003, 07:26 PM
[Montalbal voice]...and tell me where I might find... Comic Book..Guy.[/Montalban voice]

Tars Tarkas
02-10-2003, 07:39 PM
Berman: CanivourusPLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANT!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

carnivorousplant
02-10-2003, 08:25 PM
dammit where did I put Moby Dick?

kasuo
02-10-2003, 08:28 PM
carnivorousplaaaant

carnivorousplant
02-10-2003, 09:55 PM
From Hell's heart. I, er....

(Why can;t I get this damn thing into reverse?)

stab at thee!

AncientHumanoid
02-10-2003, 10:03 PM
Your's is the superior way.. [death rattle...]...

vivalostwages
02-10-2003, 10:05 PM
It's "Yours is superior [referring to Khan's intellect vs. Kirk's]."

;)

"I shall avenge you!"

And then a certain Doper or Dopers will say, "Dammit, viva, stop editing everbody's posts!"

AncientHumanoid
02-10-2003, 10:07 PM
Damn it, Viva, I'm a Doper, not an elucidator!

carnivorousplant
02-10-2003, 10:15 PM
Dammit Joachim, you little shit, you didn't put gas in the shuttle craft after you took it out last night!

COMMIT???? COMMIT??? FTW does that mean?
Oh man, I bet this is gonna hurt...

carnivorousplant
02-10-2003, 10:16 PM
WTF does that mean?

Must be a time warp...

kasuo
02-10-2003, 10:46 PM
You must've inverted the phase inducers of the graviton pulse using the deflector dish again.

carnivorousplant
02-10-2003, 11:37 PM
I hate it when I do that!

Wearia
02-11-2003, 12:22 AM
We've only got one shot! Polarize the hull plating, re route the inercial dampeners into the warp core, reverse the polarity of the forward anti matter drive unit and do an irish jig while throwing around Lucky Charms down your pants! This will summon Superman who in turn will drag a Klingon battleship around the Sun at 8000 TIMES THE SPEED OF FARTS and thus send us back in time to retrieve bell bottoms from the 1960's! Then we will travel back and rehearse Monty Python's Llama Sketch until soymilk flows out from our utters! This soymilk will be channeled into the coolant tanks and create tribbles that will wear the bell bottoms and act out parts of Grease.
Now that would make a great episode.

Boy does it feel good to get that out of my system.

Tars Tarkas
02-11-2003, 12:59 AM
The last time i flew around the sun, I was arrested because i broke Ape Law...

Linus Van Pelt
02-11-2003, 03:04 AM
Originally posted by kasuo
You must've inverted the phase inducers of the graviton pulse using the deflector dish again.

Which reminds me - they don't have a deflector dish to re-route the inverted positronic dechyon field through yet. How in the Galaxy have they even survived this long?

Oh, and have they shown the Vulcans actually being the slightest bit logical at any time during the first season and a half?

I think Spock made the whole "ruled entirely by logic" thing up as an enormous joke. On the last episode of the last season, they'll flash 200 years in the future, and show him laughing his ass off.

carnivorousplant
02-11-2003, 08:24 AM
Mr. Spock doesn't laugh unless he has a snootfull of spores.

tracer
02-11-2003, 10:38 AM
Originally posted by kingpengvin
And If the meld is sexual how do I take Spock's melding with Kirk,
Slashfic!!

kingpengvin
02-11-2003, 11:26 AM
Originally posted by Tars Tarkas
The last time i flew around the sun, I was arrested because i broke Ape Law...

Which one... Ape shall not Kill Ape

Ape shall not Kill Abe

or
Please do not pick nits from your mate while worshiping in the Lawgivers temple?

AncientHumanoid
02-11-2003, 11:35 AM
A planet where Spock evolved from Enterprise era Vulcans? :dubious:

kasuo
02-11-2003, 11:53 AM
Originally posted by NoClueBoy
A planet where Spock evolved from Enterprise era Vulcans? :dubious:

Sareeeeeeeeeeek!

Cervaise
02-11-2003, 12:49 PM
Take your mind-erasing tendrils off me, you damn dirty pancake.

carnivorousplant
02-11-2003, 12:51 PM
Tendrils?
Is that a crack about plants?

Linus Van Pelt
02-11-2003, 01:57 PM
Originally posted by carnivorousplant
Mr. Spock doesn't laugh unless he has a snootfull of spores.

I know. Or is being controlled by the Platonians (or whatever they were called from Plato's Stepchildren). As an aside, there's an episode that the producers must have decided never happened.

Anyway, how else can you explain it? The completely logical Vulcan, based on the evidence in "Enterprise", simply doesn't exist. Spock was simply yanking everyone's chain and the rest of the Vulcans of his time were playing along (as they have a very highly evolved sense of humor). Hence, when they finally decide to reveal this, the ass removing laugh.

Tars Tarkas
02-11-2003, 02:10 PM
Originally posted by carnivorousplant
Tendrils?
Is that a crack about plants?

He's talkin' about that episode with the flying pancakes where Spock gets blinded. ::cues up Blinded by the Light on the Jukebox::

What kind of pancakes can't go out in the sun, vampire pancakes? That's another violation of Ape Law, right there!

carnivorousplant
02-11-2003, 02:21 PM
The Vulcans will change in the next hundred years as humans will.
Of course, the "jerk" Vulcans will probably still be alive in a hundred years, indeed, running things...

Maybe Porthos will wake up on Serenity and it's all been a dream.

carnivorousplant
02-11-2003, 02:27 PM
Originally posted by Tars Tarkas
vampire pancakes? That's another violation of Ape Law, right there!

I thought those hairy guys at IHOP were truck drivers...

Linus Van Pelt
02-11-2003, 03:27 PM
Originally posted by carnivorousplant
...
Maybe Porthos will wake up on Serenity and it's all been a dream.

No, not Porthos. Hoshi. Stepping out of the shower. That's the only proper way to show that it's all been a dream, right?

carnivorousplant
02-11-2003, 04:22 PM
Can we compromise on Hoshi and Porthos stepping out of the shower?

Tars! Buck up! Get a grip, man!

Tars Tarkas
02-11-2003, 05:35 PM
Mmmmmm....Hoshi stepping out of the shower.....


i guess i won't be getting any more work done today, too busy fantasizing...

::Porthos has broken Dog Law and must now be sacrificed to the nuke::

vivalostwages
02-11-2003, 06:11 PM
One day, Archer was served a special breakfast sausage and vampire pancake plate carefully prepared by Chef. But the sausages tasted funny. He suddenly realized that Porthos was nowhere to be found and tried hard to wake up............................................................................................
but it WASN'T A DREAM!!!



Serenity Now!


Gad, I am so disoriented.

AncientHumanoid
02-11-2003, 06:13 PM
It wasn't "a nuke"

It was a hydrogen bomb with a cobalt casing. Once detonated, it would set up a chain reaction ending witht he Earth's atmosphere being blown off the planet.

At least, that's what the monkey told me.

AncientHumanoid
02-11-2003, 06:16 PM
Viva, my name is God, not Gad.

Get it right.

vivalostwages
02-11-2003, 06:19 PM
I'm so disoriented, Gad.
Unfamiliar fluid keeps falling from the sky and I don't know what to make of it.

AncientHumanoid
02-11-2003, 06:23 PM
Um, rain?

People outside of Calipornea see it on a regular basis.

AncientHumanoid
02-11-2003, 06:27 PM
pornea is a Greek word loosely translated as "fornication" by some Bible thumpers.

Californication was so popular, I shouldn't have to mention the Red Hot Chili Peppers.

So, Calipornea was a masterpiece of punnery by the Great and Mighty Me.

You may bow down now.

Tars Tarkas
02-11-2003, 06:40 PM
i don't get it.....

AncientHumanoid
02-11-2003, 06:42 PM
eh, it was weak...

vivalostwages
02-11-2003, 06:50 PM
I got it. I give you a little head-bob that will serve as a bow.

SpaceGhostofArrakis
02-11-2003, 06:54 PM
So...how about dem Andorians?

vivalostwages
02-11-2003, 06:58 PM
Ummmm....they're blue?

You got spoilers for us already??

AncientHumanoid
02-11-2003, 06:59 PM
Actually, for Wearia and some others, that should be tonight, no?

vivalostwages
02-11-2003, 07:01 PM
And for others among us, we'll be late to the party, since we tape ENT and TZ and don't get home to watch either till 10pm.

I note NCB's sig with a unique appreciation.

Tars Tarkas
02-11-2003, 07:04 PM
i hope they have a scene where they are chasing an Andorian, and he hides by standing in front of a painting of a blue sky, and no one sees him!

AncientHumanoid
02-11-2003, 07:05 PM
Poor Viva...

The Lonely Among Us (TNG) ?

See you around the galaxy...

AncientHumanoid
02-11-2003, 07:09 PM
Sting would make a cool Smurf.

Andorian.




Are the Tholians in this one or a future ep?

vivalostwages
02-11-2003, 07:10 PM
I feel so exposed....."The Naked Now!" :rolleyes:

If only my classroom had a working TV along with the VCR, monitor and Internet connection....

I like Tars' idea, but it got me to wondering: If Mayweather shows up, will anyone pay attention to him?

AncientHumanoid
02-11-2003, 07:16 PM
What would a negro/african andorian/black (can't pick the least PC term) Andorian look like?

Tars Tarkas
02-11-2003, 07:19 PM
He'd be green. It's not easy being green.


And the Tholians are in the Future episode

SpaceGhostofArrakis
02-11-2003, 07:20 PM
Originally posted by NoClueBoy
Sting would make a cool Smurf.

Andorian.




Are the Tholians in this one or a future ep?

Not Tomorrow's episodes (or Tonights), but next weeks.

Bring on the Tholians!

And they better be Crystal-like in all their CG glory, or there will be much cursing in my room next week.

Tars Tarkas
02-11-2003, 07:28 PM
Berman: We've reimagined the Tholians as Donkeys with space helmets! It's what Gene would have done had he had the budget.

SpaceGhostofArrakis
02-11-2003, 07:33 PM
Originally posted by Tars Tarkas
Berman: We've reimagined the Tholians as Donkeys with space helmets! It's what Gene would have done had he had the budget.

C'mon, that's as unlikely as Qo'nos ending up being closer to Earth than Proxima Cen.....oh, wait.

carnivorousplant
02-11-2003, 07:42 PM
Ladies and Gentlepersons, Cease Fire is good.

vivalostwages
02-11-2003, 09:04 PM
Good because it ends in 48 minutes minus commercials, or dare I ask......It really is, you know, good ?

carnivorousplant
02-11-2003, 09:10 PM
Originally posted by vivalostwages
It really is, you know, good ?

Yes, it's good. Even the Trek expert of the World, Mrs. Plant, owner of two (2) IDIC medals, who was muttering "They're not Vulcans! If the blood isn't green, I'll..." found it good.

But try and keep up, ok? (http://boards.academicpursuits.us/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=162494)

^:)^

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