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View Full Version : I have an Idear! Learn how to say IDEA! (Hint: drop the "r")


NurseCarmen
12-17-2003, 12:18 AM
I just heard a few chunks of Howard Dean's address to the Pacific Council in Los Angeles. It was pretty good. He took many points, set them up, discussed them. I'm not saying he'd last long on the SDMB, but at least he spoke better than most politicians I've heard in the past 2 1/2 years. At least, until he spoke of his ideas. Well, not ideas per se. IDEARS.

He wasn't the sharpest public speaker I've heard. But he made several good points. It was his IDEARS that scared me.
Now don't get me wrong. I'm from Minnesota. I say such travesties to the English language as "Wanna come with?" and "You Betcha". But I am not currently running for office.

I do run to my office occasionally, but only when I need to fart in private, or when I hear my phone ringing.

But as a normal, every day, beer drinking, pickup driving, (sans flag) office farting, red blooded Merican male, I found myself cringing every time I heard the man who's goal is to be the leader of the free world telling me that he had an idear.

If a man told me that he had an idear on what bait to use, I'd listen. If a man told me that he had an idear on why I'm on my second high pressure hose on my power steering pump, I'd take a listen.

But when a man makes valid point after point on the current administrations failings on foreign and domestic policy, I want to get a firm understanding on what his policies, agendas, and solutions are to the complexities of today’s world. I sure as hell don't want to hear his idears.

Mr. Dean. Please repeat after me.

Eye-Dee-YA.
I-d-ea
Idea
Eye-Dee-Ya.
No "r".

Eonwe
12-17-2003, 12:25 AM
You think he sounds bad, you should live in this state!

Seriously, though, I don't really understand what it is about regional accents that has people so bothered.

anu-la1979
12-17-2003, 12:36 AM
Ah yes, New England Migrating "R" Syndrome. See the deal is that basically the "R" factor needs to be stabilised. Therefore, all the "r"s that are dropped for words such as "park," "here," "car" and the like are added to words that don't need them-such as "idea," "data" etc. "Datar Entry" was my favourite phrase when I worked in Peabody. I find it charming (chah-ming) myself but then again, I have some New England roots.

NurseCarmen
12-17-2003, 12:36 AM
I'm just trying to figure out where the hell the "r" comes from.
I? Nope.
D? Nope.
E? Nope.
A? Nope.

Put them together, suddenly it's idear.

I don't have a problem with regional accents. I just think that those who are running for national office should learn pronunciation. Be it "Idea" or "Nuclear"

tomndebb
12-17-2003, 12:55 AM
I don't have a problem with regional accents. I just think that those who are running for national office should learn pronunciation. I don't have a problem with regional accents. I just think that those who are running for national office should talk good like me.

Dizzy Fingers
12-17-2003, 01:03 AM
I knew this one New Englander who had a korea working in North Career. . .

The Long Road
12-17-2003, 01:12 AM
Around here the new thing(or maybe old thing) is to pronounce human as "uman". The H is not silent!!! This is not just happening with the people you meet on the street, I've heard multiple local talk radio people pronouncing it this way.

Bosstone
12-17-2003, 01:21 AM
Originally posted by NurseCarmen
I'm just trying to figure out where the hell the "r" comes from.
I? Nope.
D? Nope.
E? Nope.
A? Nope.

Put them together, suddenly it's idear. Spelling has jack shit to do with pronounciation, you realize. Hell, in the word pronounciation itself, 'noun' is 'nun' and 'tion' is 'shun'. Where the hell does the 'sh' come from? It's T-I, ferchrissakes!

Dijon Warlock
12-17-2003, 01:25 AM
Originally posted by NurseCarmen
I'm just trying to figure out where the hell the "r" comes from.
I? Nope.
D? Nope.
E? Nope.
A? Nope.

Put them together, suddenly it's idear.
Same place the "r" comes from in 'colonel'.

Carl in NM
12-17-2003, 01:25 AM
Hmmmmmmm,

Maybe you could try to warsh his mouth out with soap. Whaddya think of that ideal? :D

Bosstone
12-17-2003, 01:27 AM
Adding on, because I know someone will correct me...

Spelling does correspond to pronounciation in most respects, yes. But spelling does not determine pronounciation.

Jeff Lodoen
12-17-2003, 01:51 AM
Sign seen at a park in Virginia:

NO DOGS
ALLOWED
IN THE
PICNIC AREAR

thirdwarning
12-17-2003, 02:52 AM
Originally posted by BayleDomon
Spelling has jack shit to do with pronounciation, you realize. Hell, in the word pronounciation itself, 'noun' is 'nun' and 'tion' is 'shun'. Where the hell does the 'sh' come from? It's T-I, ferchrissakes!

Spelling has more to do with pronunciation than you think.

Alessan
12-17-2003, 03:22 AM
Originally posted by Dijon Warlock
Same place the "r" comes from in 'colonel'.

Spanish?

(Colonal is a derivation of the Spanish Coronal, from the ceremonial crown - corona - high ranking officers would wear).

umop ap!sdn
12-17-2003, 04:17 AM
Originally posted by anu-la1979
Ah yes, New England Migrating "R" Syndrome. See the deal is that basically the "R" factor needs to be stabilised. Therefore, all the "r"s that are dropped for words such as "park," "here," "car" and the like are added to words that don't need them-such as "idea," "data" etc.

I thought the "r"s migrated to other parts of the country. Like when a Bostoner "pahks" his "cah", causing a Texan to "warsh" his car. Or something like that. It was in an OMNI magazine several years ago. (BTW I'm from New England too.)

Originally posted by BayleDomon
Where the hell does the 'sh' come from? It's T-I, ferchrissakes!

Those 4 letters are an indication that the pronounciation rules of the English language are shit. ;)

kp_72110
12-17-2003, 07:22 AM
When I worked reservations for Budget Rent A Car it always made me laugh when they wanted to reserve a car In Tamper, Florider.

:p

Coldfire
12-17-2003, 08:12 AM
Doesn't surprise me this is a New England thing - it's an English thing as well, as far as my experience goes (not necessarily Brit, though). Turn on BBC, and you'll hear the public's idears about the latest Madonnar album, and so forth.

Arcite
12-17-2003, 08:13 AM
New Englanders do this because they inherited it from the British. If they follow a word ending with a vowel sound with a word beginning with a vowel sound (i.e., "data entry") they add an R in between. Haven't you ever heard a Brit do this? As the Beatles once sang:

I sawr a film today, oh boy...
I don't like it either, but we just have to accept it. We damn Yankees have no business lecturing the British in English pronunciation.

Arcite
12-17-2003, 08:16 AM
Beaten to the punch, I see.

Another thing that irks me about British pronunciation is the word "figure." They say "figger." It just sounds somehow... semi-literate. Yet, it's their language.

Coldfire
12-17-2003, 08:22 AM
They do? Can't say I ever heard that particular one. Fig-yoor is more like it.

Dung Beetle
12-17-2003, 08:40 AM
My grandma pronounces idea "i-dee". I have an idear she just does it to make me nuts.
Can I bitch in here about people who say "Miamuh" for Miami?

dav01
12-17-2003, 08:49 AM
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by BayleDomon
Where the hell does the 'sh' come from? It's T-I, ferchrissakes!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Those 4 letters are an indication that the pronounciation rules of the English language are shit.

Somebody once said- I think it was George Bernard Shaw, but I'm probably wrong- that we should spell the word 'fish' as 'ghoti'

-the 'gh' sounds like 'f', as in 'enough'
-the 'o' sounds like a short 'i', as in 'women'
-the 'ti' sounds like 'sh', as in any word ending in '-tion'

teela brown
12-17-2003, 09:30 AM
Where did the "r" in Hah-vahd go?

To Cuber and Afriker.

lieu
12-17-2003, 11:41 AM
Our Brit coworkers are always wanting to examine their datar.

You'd think they could wait until they got home.

gluteus maximus
12-17-2003, 12:00 PM
OK, pay attention, y'all...

... pronunciation is a noun...

"The pronunciation of the word 'water', varies regionally."


... pronounce is a verb...

"How do you pronounce your name?"


... "pronounciation", whether you pronounciate it "pronunciation" or pronunciate it "pronounciation", is not a word in the English language.

Sometimes, English spelling does match its pronunciation. Sort of.

gluteus maximus
12-17-2003, 12:06 PM
Originally posted by gluteus maximus

"The pronunciation of the word 'water', varies regionally."

Tch!

"The pronunciation of the word 'water' varies regionally."

congodwarf
12-17-2003, 12:15 PM
I thought it was bad living in Wusta (Worcester, MA) but now I deal with a factory in Canada. They call me many times every day to talk aboot my orders.

Bosstone
12-17-2003, 12:16 PM
All right, all right...

Gaudere's Law strikes again. I thought maybe I should look that word up, but hey, I'm a good speller. :rolleyes:

My point still stands, though. Spelling corresponds to, but does not determine pronunciation.

GingerOfTheNorth
12-17-2003, 04:12 PM
Originally posted by congodwarf
I thought it was bad living in Wusta (Worcester, MA) but now I deal with a factory in Canada. They call me many times every day to talk aboot my orders.
I have never heard a Canadian say 'aboot' unless he was speaking of footwear.

Arcite
12-17-2003, 04:14 PM
Originally posted by GingerOfTheNorth
I have never heard a Canadian say 'aboot' unless he was speaking of footwear.

To be fair, 'aboot' isn't a perfect representation. It's more like halfway between 'aboot' and 'aboat'. It's definitely not, however, the american 'abowt'.

ruadh
12-17-2003, 04:26 PM
Originally posted by Coldfire
Doesn't surprise me this is a New England thing - it's an English thing as well, as far as my experience goes (not necessarily Brit, though).

Well, not necessarily present in all Brit accents, anyway. But I do remember hearing Sheena Easton (a Scot) pronounce her name as "Sheenur".

ENugent
12-17-2003, 04:34 PM
Here in Boston, it's widely believed that they changed the name of the NMR to MRI because many patients thought they were coming in for an entirely different procedure....

Boo Boo Foo
12-17-2003, 05:47 PM
Originally posted by NurseCarmen
But as a normal, every day, beer drinking, pickup driving, (sans flag) office farting, red blooded Merican male, I found myself cringing every time I heard the man who's goal is to be the leader of the free world telling me that he had an idear.
I hear what you're saying, and being an Australian who doesn't pronounce the letter 'r' with the same emphasis that the American accent tends to do, yes, it certainly seems a silly thing to do. However, with the utmost respect, I'd like to discuss the "leader of the free world" remark if I may. Ummmm.... perhaps if the rest of us in the Western World were allowed to vote in the US Presidential Elections, perhaps then it might be appropriate to refer to the US President as the leader of the free world, but one's thing for sure, I don't know how to speak French very well these days but if I could, I'll bet you a million bucks there are more than a few Frenchmen who'd be saying something along the lines of "He's not my fucking leader mate..."

No offence intended there to my American friends of course. Just a little thing to ponder.

Cervaise
12-17-2003, 06:05 PM
As Arcite describes, the extra 'R' appears when separating certain words that end in vowels from succeeding words that begin with vowels.

If you ask Sheena Easton what her first name is, she'll say "Sheena." If you ask her full name, she'll say "Sheenureaston." Otherwise there's a risk of an ugly glottal stop to separate the vowels.

Captain Picard did this once on TNG, as I recall. "Commander Data ris working on the problem," or something like that.

I have no idear (heh) why certain American dialects throw the extra 'R' in when there's no following initial-vowel word. Just hoping to add some context.

Optihut
12-17-2003, 06:11 PM
Originally posted by gluteus maximus
OK, pay attention, y'all...

... pronunciation is a noun...

... pronounce is a verb...

Sometimes, English spelling does match its pronunciation. Sort of.

You know what? That's mind boggling! I didn't want to believe it at first, but after checking back with the dictionary, I can see you're right.

Hmmm, I guess sometimes English still baffles me, although I thought that was not possible anymore. Damnation!

Regarding the OP: I think I pronounce the word "idea" as "idear", too. But I've always got the excuse of not being a native speaker ;)

umop ap!sdn
12-18-2003, 01:41 AM
Originally posted by Coldfire
Doesn't surprise me this is a New England thing - it's an English thing as well, as far as my experience goes (not necessarily Brit, though).

Doesn't surprise me. After all, Elton John sings "vodker and tonics" and the Moody Blues sing "drawring me near."

Originally posted by dav01
Somebody once said- I think it was George Bernard Shaw, but I'm probably wrong- that we should spell the word 'fish' as 'ghoti'

I think you're right it was Shaw. Knew that already, in fact I even wrote a screensaver and named it Ghoti.

The Tooth
12-18-2003, 02:33 AM
Originally posted by Arcite
To be fair, 'aboot' isn't a perfect representation. It's more like halfway between 'aboot' and 'aboat'. It's definitely not, however, the american 'abowt'.

It's 'a bout'. Like a boxing match. Spoken with a maritime accent, it sort of becomes 'aboot' to these ears. Then again, people in Tennessee seemed to think I was from England because of my accent. I certainly don't speak with an English accent. I think it's in the ears that hear rather than the mouth that speaks, to snag a phrase from Stephen Donaldson.

Zoe
12-18-2003, 02:52 AM
I have heard 'a bout' or 'aboot' used along the coast of Virginia, so the maritime connection makes sense.

President Kennedy was known for his eloquence, but I was right in there at first with the other teeth-gnashers when he talked about his "idears on Cuber." Eventually, it became an endearing quality.

You'll get used to it with Dean. ;)

It was a relief, however, when President Carter was sworn into office and he had no accent at all.

In my speech class in college, one young minister-to-be gave a speech on "The Importance of Correct ProNOUNciation." (shudder)

blowero
12-18-2003, 03:22 AM
Hey, the British are worse. Not only do they add an 'r' to the end of words that end with a vowell, they take it off when it's supposed to be there. Don't believe me? Check out an old episode of Star Trek: The Next Generation. When Capt. Picard speaks, Commander Data becomes "Commandah Datar", and Commander Riker become "Commandah Rikah".

And they invented the language.

Arcite
12-18-2003, 08:54 AM
Originally posted by cityboy916
Doesn't surprise me. After all, Elton John sings "vodker and tonics" and the Moody Blues sing "drawring me near."

Billy Joel does this too in Scenes From an Italian Restaurant: "Brendar and Eddie". He's supposedly from Long Island.

Spiff
12-18-2003, 11:21 AM
Originally posted by congodwarf
I thought it was bad living in Wusta (Worcester, MA) but now I deal with a factory in Canada. They call me many times every day to talk aboot my orders. They can smell you all the way from Canada?

Get it? Odors + migrating 'r' = orders.

Oh, never mind ...

Spiff
12-18-2003, 11:23 AM
And The Clash fought the lawr.

(And the lawr won.)

cowgirl
12-18-2003, 11:25 AM
As a Canadian I taught English in England which was very weird. The "r" thing causes people to misspell words, I have had more than one argument turn quite nasty when people refuse to believe that "integrate" is not spelled "intergrate."

(They reckon because I'm Canadian I don't speak English "properly" ... at least I say "R" when and only when one is written !)

And I was charged with the task for making a label for a movie that they called "The Wiccuh Man." I asked repeatedly if it was "WiccA" or "WickER" and they couldn't seem to hear a difference ... I labelled it wrong, in the end.

elmwood
12-18-2003, 11:39 AM
You haven't heard anything until you've heard a strong Buffalo accent with a "flat a." My name, Dan, gets stretched out into two syllables, pronounced as Dee-HAYN.

Go to dose der eastern suburbs der, like dat der Town of Cheektowaga der, and look out der for dose der filler words theys add der, like dat der "dose" der, dat der "dat" der, and dat der "der" der.

dantheman
12-18-2003, 12:28 PM
Now, I'm much older and wiser and more tolerant (!), but believe it or not I actually dropped a college course because the teacher (not a full professor) kept talking about her "ideers."

scout1222
12-18-2003, 01:34 PM
I'd just like to thank NurseCarmen for bring up the "wanna come with" phrase.

I don't know why, but hearing that turn of phrase grates on my nerves.

Cerowyn
12-18-2003, 03:30 PM
Originally posted by Alessan
Spanish?

(Colonal is a derivation of the Spanish Coronal, from the ceremonial crown - corona - high ranking officers would wear). You'd better get onto Mirriam-Webster (http://m-w.com/), then, 'cause they disagree:Etymology: alteration of coronel, from Middle French, modification of Old Italian colonnello column of soldiers, colonel, diminutive of colonna column, from Latin columnaAs does Dictionary.com (http://dictionary.com/):Alteration of obsolete coronel, from French, from Old Italian colonello, from diminutive of colonna, column of soldiers, from Latin columna

cmosdes
12-18-2003, 05:56 PM
Does anyone else cringe when they hear "acrost" for "across"?

bigdfrombigd
12-22-2003, 06:18 PM
I always grit my teeth when people say "sangwich". My Mom always says "degree" instead of degrees when talking about the temperature outside. Drives me nuts.

John Mace
12-22-2003, 06:41 PM
As a former New Englander, this pretty much just goes unnoticed for me. But hey, if we survived Clinton and Bush with their various southern accents, I think an idear or two should be no problem.

John Mace
12-22-2003, 06:50 PM
BTW, anyone get this sense in hearing about the Earthquake today in Paso RO-buls? Damn east coast broadcasters. Paso RO-blays, if you please.

umop ap!sdn
12-23-2003, 02:15 AM
Originally posted by John Mace
BTW, anyone get this sense in hearing about the Earthquake today in Paso RO-buls? Damn east coast broadcasters. Paso RO-blays, if you please.

Tell me about it! It's obviously a Spanish name.

I can't believe that's butter!
12-23-2003, 02:27 AM
Originally posted by cmosdes
Does anyone else cringe when they hear "acrost" for "across"?

I was thinking about starting a thread over this pronunciation. I (horrors!) almost used this word evening last.

I don't mind the "idear" thing, but then again I'm biased, having largely hailed from eastern NY and known many people who used that pronunciation.

Dangerosa
12-23-2003, 07:19 AM
I know I'm not the only one who thinks GWB should give it up and bring the word "atomic" back into fashion.

lno
12-23-2003, 02:13 PM
I work for a smallish company started by an Australian. Many of the long-term employees are Aussies or Kiwis. I consider myself fortunate that I can work in an environment such as this, and everyone here gets along ...

...

... but for the love of god, the letter h is pronounced "aitch", not "haitch"!

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