PDA

View Full Version : Band of Brothers question


Loach
12-03-2004, 05:14 PM
I was recently rewatching Band of Brothers on the History Channel. If it is on TV I will watch it. I have no idea how many times I have seen it. However, I have read the book only once. There is one part that I remember differently from the book to the miniseries.

I seem to remember that the character "Foxhole Norman" had a different (presumably his real) name in the book. He is LT Dykes on the show but I remember it different from the book. My copy happens to be a couple of thousand miles away right now so I can't check. In the book he is relived by Winters and CPT Spears takes over during the battle. He lives and the men later see him as the aide to the Division Commander. On the show he is blown up while cowering behind a haystack.

As far as I know this was the only part that was significantly fictionalized from the book. Was there a libel problem? Was "Foxhole Norman" still alive and they were afraid he would sue? Why could they use his real name in print but not on TV? I know they didn't have the same problem with CPT Sobel since he killed himself long ago. So whats the deal, did I remember it right? Why did they change it?

Airblairxxx
12-03-2004, 08:50 PM
I don't have the answer for you off the top of my head but I didn't think Lt Dike (in the series) died while behind a haystack, I thought he survived.

velveeta
12-03-2004, 09:40 PM
He was definitely not killed in the miniseries.

Hirka T'Bawa
12-03-2004, 10:14 PM
Lt Dyke was the one who was always absent during the battle of the bulge correct? I could swear he did die, on the episode right after the battle of the bulge when they are leaving the woods and going into the town. From what I remember, he died, and the Lt who shot the POWs during D-Day ran through town to link the two platoons of Easy together. He then was the commander of Easy till the end of the show.

velveeta
12-03-2004, 10:24 PM
I'm pretty sure he just gets relieved by the guy who does the suicide run through town - Steele, I think. Dyke stays behind the haystack and hides. If he gets blown up after this, I have no idea. It's been awhile since I watched them, so I'll have to check the DVD again.

velveeta
12-03-2004, 10:35 PM
I'm pretty sure he just gets relieved by the guy who does the suicide run through town - Steele, I think.
Whoops, that would be Captain Speirs.

velveeta
12-03-2004, 10:47 PM
I did find this little piece of info:

In real life Dyke wasn't killed at Foy as in the TV series, he actually got promoted. He failed leading the charge on Foy and Spiers did take over and save the day, but Dyke survived, he didn't get killed behind the haybale.

So I guess he does die behind the haybale in the series, but not the book. Funny, I don't remember his death scene at all. Now I'm going to have to go check it out.

Jman
12-04-2004, 01:17 AM
I too don't remember Dyke getting killed in that scene...I'll have to pop in my DVDs and take a look.

Loach
12-04-2004, 09:32 AM
It is very quick. I didn't notice him getting blowed up real good the first couple of times I watched.

Loach
12-06-2004, 02:52 PM
I was going to come up with something clever to disguise the bump, but decided against it.

::BUMP::

Miller
12-06-2004, 03:00 PM
I watched this episode several times, and at the end, they specifically say Dyke was killed. However, I have yet to see where in the episode he dies.

Airblairxxx
12-06-2004, 03:18 PM
I watched this episode several times, and at the end, they specifically say Dyke was killed. However, I have yet to see where in the episode he dies.

Huh. I do not remember it saying that. FWIW, there's a FAQ on the show at http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0185906/board/nest/9187222, one of the questions is:

Q: Was Lieutenant Dike killed in the fighting for Foy?
A: No. Nope. Nada. He survived; the dead guy usually mistaken for Dike is a private, Webb, who was shot by a sniper. He was relieved of command and kicked upwards, becoming an aide of General Taylor on the divisional staff.

Now I understand there are some factual differences between the show and real life, the most egregious error being the one about Albert Blithe. But I really don't think that the epsiode showed Dyke being killed.

Man, I had the whole weekend to research this with both the book and the DVDs, and I didn't . . .

Phelan
12-06-2004, 03:32 PM
I watched this episode several times, and at the end, they specifically say Dyke was killed. However, I have yet to see where in the episode he dies.

I think it was just a quick scene after the assault on the village where there are 2 soldiers standing over a body and saying something about less Americans getting killed now. I could be wrong though.

Loach
12-06-2004, 04:09 PM
Man, I had the whole weekend to research this with both the book and the DVDs, and I didn't . . .

Now we know who to blame.

Airblairxxx
12-07-2004, 01:12 PM
Now we know who to blame.

OK, you can't hold it against me anymore! I did a quick check of the book this morning and Lt Norman Dike is, in fact, depicted pretty much exactly as he is in the DVD. He did fail in his assault on Foy, he did survive it, and he did get kicked upstairs to the rank of Captain and served as an aide to a general.

And he is mentioned by name. So unless Ambrose changed the name when he wrote the book (and I didn't see any footnote to that effect), Lt Norman Dike was a real person.

So there.

Loach
12-07-2004, 02:45 PM
OK, you can't hold it against me anymore! I did a quick check of the book this morning and Lt Norman Dike is, in fact, depicted pretty much exactly as he is in the DVD. He did fail in his assault on Foy, he did survive it, and he did get kicked upstairs to the rank of Captain and served as an aide to a general.

And he is mentioned by name. So unless Ambrose changed the name when he wrote the book (and I didn't see any footnote to that effect), Lt Norman Dike was a real person.

So there.

Except he died on the DVD.

Airblairxxx
12-07-2004, 02:53 PM
Except he died on the DVD.

Sigh, now you're gonna make me check the DVDs . . . well, it'll have to wait until after work.

pokey
12-07-2004, 02:54 PM
Which episode?

Loach
12-07-2004, 02:57 PM
Still researching but I came across this interesting interview with Dick Winters. (http://thehistorynet.com/ah/bldwinters/index3.html) Off topic but what the hell, it's my thread.

Two of the stories that have circulated about Speirs were that he shot some German prisoners in Normandy and, later, one of his own sergeants.

Winters:The stories about him are true. When I first heard, I was speechless. What he did was unbelievable, inexcusable. If you talk to somebody in today's Army, they would say, well, how come he wasn't court-martialed? Well, you needed every man you had. Those guys that goofed up, didn't measure up, you couldn't just get rid of them. You needed the body, because if you lose that body, then somebody else has to shoulder twice the burden. You needed every body you could get. At Foy, he was the first officer I saw when I turned around. It could have been anybody, but it was Speirs. I didn't ask, "OK, would you mind taking over?" No, I just turned around, saw him and said take over. It was just a roll of the dice that he was standing there when I needed someone.

Loach
12-07-2004, 03:11 PM
Which episode?

I think it's called Breaking Point.

Terminus Est
12-07-2004, 03:42 PM
I think the impression that Dike is killed is formed at the end of the Foy episode, when 'E' Company is holed in in a convent at Hageneau. While the nuns are singing, Sgt (soon to be Lt) Lipton is enumerating all their casualties during the Bastogne campaign. Dike is listed as a 'bad officer' that they lost, but then Spiers is cited as a 'good officer' that they gained. The series never showed Lt Dike buying the farm. On the other hand they never showed him again after Foy.

ElectricZ
12-07-2004, 06:58 PM
I think the impression that Dike is killed is formed at the end of the Foy episode, when 'E' Company is holed in in a convent at Hageneau. While the nuns are singing, Sgt (soon to be Lt) Lipton is enumerating all their casualties during the Bastogne campaign. Dike is listed as a 'bad officer' that they lost, but then Spiers is cited as a 'good officer' that they gained. The series never showed Lt Dike buying the farm. On the other hand they never showed him again after Foy.

They also show Buck Compton fading out, even though he didn't die, as were Toye and Wild Bill who were badly injured. The casualty roll call was everybody who was taken out of the fight.

Personally, I got the impression Dike died mainly from Perconte (?) asking Lipton if "It was true about Dike?" to which Lipton replied almost sadly, "Yeah." Perconte's response is "Thank god for small favors, huh?"

But it was just an impression. In the show, Dike could have merely been transferred out as in real life after his dismal performance at Foy and the conversation would could be scripted the same way. I remember thinking this after I read the book and being surprised to find Dike lived.

It works both ways I guess. I don't think it affects the outcome for the men... Dike was finally gone, no matter the reason! :)

I just had a horrible thought... Suppose Captain Sobel didn't get left behind when Easy Company shipped out. And Easy had both Sobel AND Dike in its ranks...?

EZ

Miller
12-07-2004, 08:20 PM
I just had a horrible thought... Suppose Captain Sobel didn't get left behind when Easy Company shipped out. And Easy had both Sobel AND Dike in its ranks...?

Then we'd all be speakin' German.

eenerms
12-08-2004, 08:50 AM
I just had a horrible thought... Suppose Captain Sobel didn't get left behind when Easy Company shipped out. And Easy had both Sobel AND Dike in its ranks...?

EZ

IIRC from the book, Captain Sobel "made" Easy Company what there were, tough. They hated him but he drove them to the elite company of men that they were.

Loach
12-08-2004, 09:43 AM
IIRC from the book, Captain Sobel "made" Easy Company what there were, tough. They hated him but he drove them to the elite company of men that they were.

From the interview I cited above:

Winters acknowledges different styles of leadership and cites the ability of men to lead through fear, such as Speirs and E Company's first commander, Herbert Sobel. He asserts, however, that the most effective leader will have quiet self-confidence and self-assurance that ultimately commands the respect of the men.

Winters: In Sobel's case it was in training, and in Speirs' case it was in combat. It is impossible to imagine what would have been the result if we had been led into battle by Sobel. He had driven the men to the point of mutiny, and, more important, he had lost their respect. If he had been in command, more men would have died in battle. Speirs had the men's respect. He had my respect. We both knew he would get the job done.

After the war a couple of the guys tired to get Sobel involved in their reunions. He refused. He still blamed Easy company for ruining his life. He wound up commiting suicide.

Best Topics: throckmorten sign johnny eck anatomy reverse cross product qwghlmian language dope name generator banana worms jew eat pork airmail par avion pr shoes universal seat belts recorded laughter asian trucks .22 damage shithead name klingon home world radon testing scam clothing slacks stuck wine cork spanking memories i hate podcasts broken neck death casket weight security clearance dwi decathlon and heptathlon oil of vitrol browning flour avery 5388 template pig bristles arkansas inbreeding antifungal toenail polish pigeon vs pidgeon ward cleaver stephanie courtney tits tonic water drinks bulk peanuts for squirrels what is cleverbot really how to clean brita pitcher block foundation vs poured cost still itching after lice treatment go air force beat army square feet in 1 4 acre liam bourke qvc facebook best glue for neoprene slaving in the kitchen baseball cheers and chants for little league why did jerry lundegaard need the money why were the vietnamese called charlie straw purchase car loan illegal what do the numbers on eyeglass frames mean clean blood from concrete jamie lee curtis sexuality we don t need no water let the mother why do words look wrong sometimes air force jobs that travel sauce for the goose mr. saavik how did astronauts survive the moon temperature tip of nose tingles is dom deluise still alive how long does it take to freeze to death how to walk silently in the woods keep wasps from building nests dynamite explosives for sale can i use sick days for vacation popped jaw out of socket i look young for my age male schick personal touch razor blades refills why am i smelling garlic