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Martin Hyde
03-24-2005, 12:58 AM
I used to be a huge fan of Cheers and was a moderate fan of Frasier. I remember in Cheers Frasier had a son named Frederick. I've not seen even half of the "Frasier" episodes but in the show I never see it mentioned where his son is, although it is obviously the exact same character as Sam appears on Frasier at one point and in one episode he meets with the cast of Cheers.

So what's the scoop, did his son just get forgotten when they made the Frasier sitcom?

NDP
03-24-2005, 01:01 AM
No, he lived with Lilith. Frederick usually made about one or two appearances per season (often around Christmas) on Frasier.

amarinth
03-24-2005, 01:04 AM
In one of the final seasons (if not the final season) of Cheers, Frasier and Lilith's marriage fell apart. So, when he moved out to Seattle (for Frasier), they conveniently gave Lilith custody.

They do mention Frederick from time to time, and he visits (and Frasier visits him) a few times. But he's across the country, so he didn't need to be mentioned in every episode.

GuanoLad
03-24-2005, 03:44 AM
One thing that I admired is that it was always the same actor who played Frederick, all the way from the last season of Cheers. (I believe another actor played him before then)

MrDibble
03-24-2005, 05:16 AM
...(and Frasier visits him) a few times...
Aah, Frederick's Bar Mitzvah episode. Never has speaking Klingon been used for funnier effect.

BrainGlutton
03-24-2005, 11:01 AM
Aah, Frederick's Bar Mitzvah episode. Never has speaking Klingon been used for funnier effect.

:D I remember when Frederick was born . . . and Frasier, despite being an M.D., was totally freaked out by having to watch him get circumcised!

FRASIER (WALKING INTO CHEERS WITH A HUGE BULGE UNDER HIS SHIRT AND HURRYING TOWARD'S SAM'S OFFICE IN THE BACK): Yes, my son is fine and well and nowhere in the vicinity of this bar. By the way, Sam, do you have any female customers who are lactating and need of fast cash? OW! Forget it, kid, it's not gonna happen!

Ike Witt
03-24-2005, 11:09 AM
:D I remember when Frederick was born . . . and Frasier, despite being an M.D., was totally freaked out by having to watch him get circumcised!

I don't think that he is a M.D.

Caricci
03-24-2005, 11:22 AM
I don't think that he is a M.D.

Yes, a psychiatrist by specialty.

Bryan Ekers
03-24-2005, 11:58 AM
In one of the final seasons (if not the final season) of Cheers, Frasier and Lilith's marriage fell apart. So, when he moved out to Seattle (for Frasier), they conveniently gave Lilith custody.

All-in-all that was kind of strange, considering that Lilith had abandoned Frasier and Frederick to go live in the Eco-Pod with a pioneering but unfortunately insane (and claustrophobic, as they learned five minutes after the Pod was sealed) scientist. Not exactly the most stable thing she could have done.

Now, I loved Bebe Neuwirth's Lilith, and regretted that she wasn't included in Frasier (all of her appearances, especially the confused hotel waiter scene, were hysterical) but if they'd had to write numerous episodes incorporating the kid, the show would have suffered. I was a little surprised she didn't appear in the Cheers final episode.

Favoured Frederick-related dialog:
"Oh, really, Lilith. You weren't expecting any sympathy here in Mayberry, were you?"

"That's right, Lilith. You'll revive the man by having a baby on him."

kunilou
03-24-2005, 01:32 PM
Frederick got a little character development over the years. He was shown as being nearly as obsessed with Daphne as Niles was and in the last season, they had him as a 12-year old Goth.

Originally Frasier was a psychologist (Ph.D) and Niles was a psychiatrist (M.D.) but the producers let that distinction get fuzzy over the course of the show. But I do admire the producers for handling the continuity issues between Cheers-Frasier (only child, mother alive, father dead) and Frasier-Frasier (younger brother, mother dead, father alive) -- a simple "I lied."

BobT
03-24-2005, 01:32 PM
There were two different Fredericks. The second actor, Trevor Einhorn, did the bulk of the appearances.

BrainGlutton
03-24-2005, 01:45 PM
Now, I loved Bebe Neuwirth's Lilith, and regretted that she wasn't included in Frasier (all of her appearances, especially the confused hotel waiter scene, were hysterical) but if they'd had to write numerous episodes incorporating the kid, the show would have suffered.

Plus, then they couldn't have made the show about Frasier being a single guy! (Who, despite living in a major city and being handsome, intelligent, well-dressed, pleasant, locally famous, and at least moderately rich, hardly ever seems to get laid.)

Originally Frasier was a psychologist (Ph.D) and Niles was a psychiatrist (M.D.) but the producers let that distinction get fuzzy over the course of the show.

:confused: Are you sure? Frasier was introduced in Cheers as the shrink Diane met while she was committed to a mental hospital. I think it's usually psychiatrists, not psychologists, who get that kind of job. (The practical difference being, M.D.-psychiatrists can prescribe medication, Ph.D.-psychologists can't -- and medication is pretty important in a mental hospital.)

betenoir
03-24-2005, 02:39 PM
:confused: Are you sure? Frasier was introduced in Cheers as the shrink Diane met while she was committed to a mental hospital. I think it's usually psychiatrists, not psychologists, who get that kind of job. (The practical difference being, M.D.-psychiatrists can prescribe medication, Ph.D.-psychologists can't -- and medication is pretty important in a mental hospital.)

Well, my mother is a shrink in a mental hospital and she's a psychologist. She does conseling and makes recommendations to the psychiatrist on staff. So that part seems plausable..actually it's the radio personalty part that sounds more like a psychologist gig. Obviously no use for the M.D. part over the airwaves. And he never seems to talk about drugs, while my experience of psychtrists these days, is they're prozac this, effexor that, remoron the other, for just about anything.

Still, I believe he's refured to as a psychiatrist.

silenus
03-24-2005, 02:44 PM
TVTome refers to him as a psychiatrist.

Peter Morris
03-24-2005, 02:50 PM
I think they made the point that Frasier was doing some research there, or something, and definitely not part of the medical staff responsible for Diana's care, thus he wasn't violating medical ethics by dating her.

Don Draper
03-24-2005, 02:53 PM
Well, my mother is a shrink in a mental hospital and she's a psychologist. She does conseling and makes recommendations to the psychiatrist on staff. So that part seems plausable..actually it's the radio personalty part that sounds more like a psychologist gig. Obviously no use for the M.D. part over the airwaves. And he never seems to talk about drugs, while my experience of psychtrists these days, is they're prozac this, effexor that, remoron the other, for just about anything.

On a late-in-the-series-run "Cheers" episode, Frasier chides Carla for consulting a psychic. He tells her they are nothing more than charlatans who tell desperate, needy people exactly what they want to hear.

Carla: "How is that different from what you do?"

Frasier: (awkward pause) "I can prescribe drugs."

kunilou
03-24-2005, 03:33 PM
Hmm, here it says "psychiatrist"
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4955155/
http://tvland.com/shows/cheers/characters/char7.jhtml
http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0106004/



Here it says "psychologist"
http://tv.yahoo.com/news/eo/20040503/108363720000.html
http://eonline.com/News/Items/0,1,14019,00.html
http://frasieronline.co.uk/season3/ep7.htm

Googling both terms gives about 6,800 references to psychiatrist and about 3,200 to psychologist. The cites show that Frasier refers to himself variously by both titles.

Bryan Ekers
03-24-2005, 03:37 PM
I wouldn't worry too much about Cheers/Frasier inconsistancies, since even within each shows there are glitches. The only one that annoys me was a Frasier episode where Frasier and Niles express misgivings about Martin's latest girlfriend, Martin rips into them for it, then they call him on all the criticism he's heaped on their relationships (i.e. Lilith and Maris). During the conversation, Martin's wife/F&N's mother is mentioned, as having had too much class to ever resort to such tactics. Yet in that character's only appearance (a third-season Cheers episode, as played by the late Nancy Marchand), she took such an instant dislike to Frasier's then-squeeze Diane that death threats were made and hilarity ensued.

Ultraviolet
03-24-2005, 03:55 PM
There was one (hilarious) episode where Frasier was ill and had Niles filling in for him at the radio station. He wrote himself some strong prescriptions so that he could go and do the show. That would seem to indicate that he is an MD.

Tracy Lord
03-24-2005, 03:58 PM
I wouldn't worry too much about Cheers/Frasier inconsistancies, since even within each shows there are glitches. The only one that annoys me was a Frasier episode where Frasier and Niles express misgivings about Martin's latest girlfriend, Martin rips into them for it, then they call him on all the criticism he's heaped on their relationships (i.e. Lilith and Maris). During the conversation, Martin's wife/F&N's mother is mentioned, as having had too much class to ever resort to such tactics. Yet in that character's only appearance (a third-season Cheers episode, as played by the late Nancy Marchand), she took such an instant dislike to Frasier's then-squeeze Diane that death threats were made and hilarity ensued.

Not to mention casting a vivacious Rita Wilson as the late Mrs. Crane in two or three episodes of Frasier, but still making reference to her appearance in Boston (where, again, she was played by Nancy Marchand).

Generally, though, I like the way the producers handle the continuity in both series. They sort of brazen out the most glaring discrepancies.

Martin Hyde
03-24-2005, 07:19 PM
I guess I just needed to catch more Frasier episodes, I've seen a good chunk of them but never saw the ones with Frederick in them.

Morbo
03-24-2005, 07:31 PM
On Frasier did they ever mention that he was married before Lillith to "Nanny Gee" - played by Emma Thompson in an episode of Cheers?

Don Draper
03-24-2005, 07:39 PM
On Frasier did they ever mention that he was married before Lillith to "Nanny Gee" - played by Emma Thompson in an episode of Cheers?

Yes, one episode had a despondant Frasier holing up alone in the Crane family cabin and having imaginary visits from all the significant women in his life. His mother, Diane, Lilith, and "Nanny Gee" were all there. Nanny Gee wasn't played by Emma Thompson though. They explained away the dissimilarity by depicting her as the youthful hippie she'd been when Frasier met her at Harvard.

Agrippina
03-24-2005, 07:41 PM
There was another episode where Nanny G comes to Seattle and Frasier agrees to get free tickets for Roz and her daughter. In this episode, Nanny was played by Laurie Metcalf.

Annie-Xmas
03-25-2005, 08:05 AM
There was another episode where Nanny G comes to Seattle and Frasier agrees to get free tickets for Roz and her daughter. In this episode, Nanny was played by Laurie Metcalf.

The ending to that episode was one of Fraiser's finer moments.

Maybe Fraiser is both a psychiatrist AND a psychologist, and holds an MD and PhD.

The writers on Cheers and Fraiser decided to make Frederick age in real time, and not go from baby to 5 to teen in three years like most TV children.

Fiver
03-25-2005, 09:06 AM
Frasier was well-established as having attended Harvard and Oxford. Did he get his undergrad at Harvard, and his MD at Oxford? Or did he get both degrees at Harvard and do post-doc work at Oxford?

I feel certain this has been addressed.

Podkayne
03-25-2005, 09:49 AM
I am reminded of the episode where Sam threw out his back (on the night he was going to date three women simultaneously, or another similarly Sam-like maneuver.) Frasier says something like, "This should hurt . . . " and applies pressure to Sam's back. Sam howls in pain, and Frasier turns to Lilith and says triumphantly, "See, Lilith! I could so have been a real doctor!"

rpinrd
03-25-2005, 01:47 PM
Quick tangent here:
I seem to recall that in the early Frasier episodes, Daphne believed that she had some psychic capacity. Not like visions in Charmed or anything, but she definitely thought of herself as having some ability that she thought was real.

No one else remembers this. Am I making it up?

Odinoneeye
03-25-2005, 02:03 PM
Quick tangent here:
I seem to recall that in the early Frasier episodes, Daphne believed that she had some psychic capacity. Not like visions in Charmed or anything, but she definitely thought of herself as having some ability that she thought was real.

No one else remembers this. Am I making it up?

No, I remember that. And IIRC, she would have them occasionally throughout the series. I think she just kept them under wraps because of the more scientifically oriented Crane brothers.

Sampiro
03-25-2005, 02:33 PM
There was another episode where Nanny G comes to Seattle and Frasier agrees to get free tickets for Roz and her daughter. In this episode, Nanny was played by Laurie Metcalf.

I loved her line from that episode. She's desperately wanting to get out of being a children's entertainer and return to serious stage work and asks Frasier (this is in the series last season)

Nanny G: Frasier, if you knew how bored I am, being "Nanny Gee." How trapped I feel...
Frasier: You have a wonderful career.
Nanny G: But nothing ever changes! Do you have any idea what it's like to play the same character for twenty years?

One of TV's best in-jokes.

My favorite line related to Frederick was Lilith's: If he wants something badly enough, he will figure out a way to get it. Remember when he was a baby, the bottle at the end of the maze?

Sampiro
03-25-2005, 02:38 PM
PS- Does anybody know if it's just coincidence that Frasier's vicious she-wolf of a manager was named 'Bebe' (same as Bebe Neuwirth, but pronounced differently).

GuanoLad
03-25-2005, 07:53 PM
Quick tangent here:
I seem to recall that in the early Frasier episodes, Daphne believed that she had some psychic capacity. Not like visions in Charmed or anything, but she definitely thought of herself as having some ability that she thought was real.

No one else remembers this. Am I making it up?
They appeared again during the long protracted Donny/Niles marriage debacle.

chrisk
03-25-2005, 08:03 PM
Quick tangent here:
I seem to recall that in the early Frasier episodes, Daphne believed that she had some psychic capacity. Not like visions in Charmed or anything, but she definitely thought of herself as having some ability that she thought was real.

No one else remembers this. Am I making it up?

No, I remember that. And IIRC, she would have them occasionally throughout the series. I think she just kept them under wraps because of the more scientifically oriented Crane brothers.

FWIW, I vaguely remember seeing Jane Leeves on some sort of late-night talk show, and she mentions that the psychic aspect of Roz's character was dialed back because, "Kelsey and David were so great at being really outrageous and pretentious and thinking that they're superior to everyone, so it didn't fit for Daphne to be kooky and insisting that she's psychic all the time as well... they made her more grounded, as one more person in the brother's lives that they could bounce off of.' Probably misremembering the wording, but that sort of sentiment.

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