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DrDeth
05-19-2005, 01:38 AM
You know, they have the BIG title song- "76 Trombones"- have they ever really had a marching band with 76 Trombones and all the etc? (110 trumpets?) :confused:

kaylasdad99
05-19-2005, 01:56 AM
Not trumpets, cornets.

Interesting question, though. Answer might be in the Guinness Book of Records. Don't forget you need more than a thousand reeds. I'm not sure if oboes and bassoons count as two reeds each, but either way, that's a lot of pairs of pants with a big gold stripe running . . .

Okay, I'll stop now.

Hilarity N. Suze
05-19-2005, 01:59 AM
All that and only one bass? I don't think so.

Feydeau
05-19-2005, 03:02 AM
Not trumpets, cornets.

Interesting question, though. Answer might be in the Guinness Book of Records. Don't forget you need more than a thousand reeds. I'm not sure if oboes and bassoons count as two reeds each, but either way, that's a lot of pairs of pants with a big gold stripe running . . .

Okay, I'll stop now.

{nitpick}

It's a red stripe.

{/nitpick}

pool
05-19-2005, 04:05 AM
My friend had a cd where they performed 76 trombones with you guessed it 76 trombones...it was really good and they covered some cool songs I'll ask him who they were if your interested.

AskNott
05-19-2005, 12:58 PM
Didn't Prof. Hill specifically make this claim about the John Philip Sousa band? That would narrow the search a bit. Hill was a flim-flam man anyway, so there's no reason to believe anything he said.

Governor Quinn
05-19-2005, 01:21 PM
Didn't Prof. Hill specifically make this claim about the John Philip Sousa band?

According to the lyrics, Gilmore [presumably Patrick S Gilmore], Pat Conway, The Great Creatore [real name: Giuseppe Creatore], WC Handy, and John Phillip Sousa had all come to the same town on the same date.

(All of these men are real, however, they don't fit well on a timeline, as Gilmore died before the Great Creatore ever visited the US, and Handy was not, to the best of my knowledge, a concert bandleader.)

BrainGlutton
05-19-2005, 01:40 PM
(All of these men are real, however, they don't fit well on a timeline, as Gilmore died before the Great Creatore ever visited the US, and Handy was not, to the best of my knowledge, a concert bandleader.)

And Hill could not have graduated from the Gary, Indiana, Conservatory, Class of '05, because the town wasn't built until '06. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary%2C_Indiana#History

RealityChuck
05-19-2005, 01:54 PM
Yes, and Captain Billy's Whizbang wasn't published until after 1920, after the time period of the musical.

But who cares?

ElvisL1ves
05-19-2005, 02:50 PM
Those nice red stripes would have been all covered with dung, unless the copper-bottom tympani in horse platoons were at the rear.

Has anyone ever actually seen a double-belled euphonium?

Kizarvexius
05-19-2005, 04:57 PM
Has anyone ever actually seen a double-belled euphonium?


They exist (http://home.earthlink.net/~tenorhorn/euphhistory.html). My band teacher in sixth grade had one.

jayjay
05-19-2005, 05:24 PM
According to the lyrics, Gilmore [presumably Patrick S Gilmore], Pat Conway, The Great Creatore [real name: Giuseppe Creatore], WC Handy, and John Phillip Sousa had all come to the same town on the same date.

(All of these men are real, however, they don't fit well on a timeline, as Gilmore died before the Great Creatore ever visited the US, and Handy was not, to the best of my knowledge, a concert bandleader.)

I'd swear Liberace is in there somewhere, too, (at least on the Broadway: The American Musical compilation I have) which never made sense to me because it would have been WAY too early for him. And he has nothing to do with marching bands anyway.

Feydeau
05-20-2005, 02:54 AM
I'd swear Liberace is in there somewhere, too, (at least on the Broadway: The American Musical compilation I have) which never made sense to me because it would have been WAY too early for him. And he has nothing to do with marching bands anyway.

Alessandro Liberati, 1847-1927.

Found here. (http://sewickley.org/~kcerny/LowerSchool/DivisionMusical/TheMusicManDictionary.htm)

flodnak
05-20-2005, 03:09 AM
Has anyone ever actually seen a double-belled euphonium?Seen it. Played it. Didn't actually shatter window glass with it, though it wasn't for lack of trying :D

A more important question is whether farting bedposts (a.k.a. bassoons) have ever been part of a marching band in a parade. A concert band, sure, but bassoons are heavy, and double reeds are mighty fragile...

Tip o' the hat to old Professor Hill for knowing that there's a difference between cornets and trumpets!

flodnak
05-20-2005, 07:03 AM
Right. Just to show how lazy I am today, I dragged out our old (1978) copy of the Guinness Book of Records, and my son's 2004 copy. First, the bad news: as many of you probably already know, the Guinness Book people have found out their biggest market was among preteens, so they have now given the book an obvious preteen slant. Lots of pages about Pop Music and Rock Music, but no entry for a Largest Marching Band in the 2004 edition. However, in the 1978 edition, we read: The largest marching band on record was one of 1,976 musicians and 54 drill majors, flag bearers and directors who marched 2 miles 3.2 km down Pennsylvania Avenue in President Nixon's Inaugural Parade on 20 Jan. 1973. If this band did indeed feature 76 trombones catching the morning sun, with 110 cornets right behind, we are left with 1,790 other musicians. Since much of the brass section has already been counted, we might just be left with enough musicians for over a thousand reeds to spring up like weeds, though I have found no evidence to support tympani, horse platoons, or double-bell euphoniums.

jayjay
05-20-2005, 07:13 AM
Alessandro Liberati, 1847-1927.

Found here. (http://sewickley.org/~kcerny/LowerSchool/DivisionMusical/TheMusicManDictionary.htm)

Ah...THAT makes much more sense!


And what IS a horse platoon, anyway?

ElvisL1ves
05-20-2005, 09:39 AM
Other cultural references explained (http://doggedresearch.com/wilson/glossary.htm).

I have my doubts about the 50 mounted cannon in the battery, though. Unless they were playing the 1812 Overture, they'd either drown out or take out the rest of the band.

jayjay
05-20-2005, 09:59 AM
You know, normal people get earworms like commercial jingles or "Sweet Caroline". I get "76 Trombones"...

Kizarvexius
05-20-2005, 10:27 AM
You know, normal people get earworms like commercial jingles or "Sweet Caroline". I get "76 Trombones"...


Not "Sweet Caroline"!!!

Must...drown...out...earworm........AAAAAAAAAAARRRRRGHHHHHH!!!!

There waaaas a wiiiild coloooonial boooy,
Jack Duggannnnn waaaas his naaaaaame

kunilou
05-20-2005, 02:58 PM
Not "Sweet Caroline"!!!

Must...drown...out...earworm........AAAAAAAAAAARRRRRGHHHHHH!!!!


Since we're talkin' 'boutThe Music Man try this

Lida Rose, I'm home again, Rose
To get the sun back in the sky.
Lida Rose, I'm home again, Rose
About a thousand kisses shy.

lachesis
05-20-2005, 03:11 PM
Ah...THAT makes much more sense!


And what IS a horse platoon, anyway?
danged if i can find any on-line references when i Google, but i swear i once read somewhere that a nickname for a tuba was a "horse spittoon".

AskNott
05-20-2005, 03:23 PM
A more important question is whether farting bedposts (a.k.a. bassoons) have ever been part of a marching band in a parade. A concert band, sure, but bassoons are heavy, and double reeds are mighty fragile...
My high school band, the Anderson H.S. Marching Indians had marching bassoonists. My girlfriend was one of them. Yes, bassoons are ungainly, but they are lighter than bass drums and bass horns.

Historical note: J.F. Sousa replaced the massive tuba with his big circular sousaphone, which was "worn" over one shoulder and around the body. The sousaphone's bell was nearly straight up; today's forward-bell horn is called, simply, a bass horn.

The euphonium, and its single belled brother, the baritone horn, are roughly in the same range as a trombone, but with valves instead of a slide. Flodnak knew that, of course.

Marching bands often share a parade route with horse groups (providing some slippery moments for the musicians,) but I've never seen horses as part of the band.

I have seen tympani, and even a small piano, in a marching band, but they were on wheels. I personally don't feel that towed instruments belong in a marching band. That also goes for the huge bass drums sported by the Purdue and U. of Texas bands. Those 3-drum harnesses you see in some bands look pretty silly, too.

panache45
05-20-2005, 03:41 PM
You know, they have the BIG title song- "76 Trombones" . . .

"76 Trombones" may be the most famous song from the show, but it's not the "title song."

F. U. Shakespeare
05-20-2005, 03:45 PM
But Handy was a classically-trained concert coronetist before he started collecting and publishing blues songs. He may have simply been one of the aforementioned '110'.

According to the lyrics, Gilmore [presumably Patrick S Gilmore], Pat Conway, The Great Creatore [real name: Giuseppe Creatore], WC Handy, and John Phillip Sousa had all come to the same town on the same date.

(All of these men are real, however, they don't fit well on a timeline, as Gilmore died before the Great Creatore ever visited the US, and Handy was not, to the best of my knowledge, a concert bandleader.)

F. U. Shakespeare
05-20-2005, 03:48 PM
And no, I didn't mean to say he played a crown, I just can't effing spell!

(Cornet, not coronet)

Sampiro
05-20-2005, 03:51 PM
I would guess that a horse platoon was a platoon of mounted horsemen.

Kizarvexius
05-20-2005, 04:51 PM
Since we're talkin' 'boutThe Music Man try this

Lida Rose, I'm home again, Rose
To get the sun back in the sky.
Lida Rose, I'm home again, Rose
About a thousand kisses shy.


I used to sing that one to my daughter as a lullaby. In fact, I just got my DVD copy of The Music Man last month and my daughter (who is now 6, going on 13) adores it. She goes around singing:

Pick a little
Talk a little
Pick a little
Talk a little
Cheep, cheep, cheep
Talk a lot
Pick a little more...

Ad infinitem.

I have successfully corrupted another generation! :D

BrainGlutton
05-20-2005, 05:10 PM
What's the origin of the term "shipoopi" for "the girl that's hard to get"? Was it current in the time portrayed, or coined for the musical?

Governor Quinn
05-20-2005, 07:36 PM
But Handy was a classically-trained concert coronetist before he started collecting and publishing blues songs. He may have simply been one of the aforementioned '110'.

Maybe, maybe.

I managed to get some research done as to the size of concert bands of the period, and my source identified the Sousa band of around 1900 as having 61 members, including 4 trombonists and 4 cornetists. In addition, there were more woodwinds than brass by around a two-to-one ratio.

With those two figures in hand, we can guess that there were around 1,500 members of the band (1,000 "reeds" and 500 brass), with instrumentation between 19 and 27-and-a-half times normal.

DrDeth
05-20-2005, 08:00 PM
So what is the actual list of instruments in the "big band"? Remember, we can't post the full lyrics, but a simple list of what's supposed to be marching should be OK.

F. U. Shakespeare
05-20-2005, 08:58 PM
In light of a 2000% exaggeration, maybe we can conclude that Prof. Hill's claim of '76 Trombones' is (as suggested by AskNott) simply another example of the flim-flammery he was pulling on an unsophisticated small-town population?

Sort of the equivalent of someone claiming he once led a country band with twenty steel guitar players.

Maybe, maybe.

I managed to get some research done as to the size of concert bands of the period, and my source identified the Sousa band of around 1900 as having 61 members, including 4 trombonists and 4 cornetists. In addition, there were more woodwinds than brass by around a two-to-one ratio.

With those two figures in hand, we can guess that there were around 1,500 members of the band (1,000 "reeds" and 500 brass), with instrumentation between 19 and 27-and-a-half times normal.

BrainGlutton
05-20-2005, 09:09 PM
So what is the actual list of instruments in the "big band"? Remember, we can't post the full lyrics, but a simple list of what's supposed to be marching should be OK.

Based on http://stlyrics.com/t/themusicman.htm:

76 trombones
110 cornets
more than a thousand reeds
copper bottom tympani in horse platoons
double bell euphoniums
big bassoons
50 mounted cannon in the battery
clarinets
trumpeters

NoCoolUserName
05-20-2005, 10:53 PM
Brass/horn players (who, sure as shooting are reading this thread) have you ever improvised "a full octave higher than the score"?*



*I have not, he said flatly.

Call me Frank
05-20-2005, 11:24 PM
My friend had a cd where they performed 76 trombones with you guessed it 76 trombones...it was really good and they covered some cool songs I'll ask him who they were if your interested.
The CD is "The London Trombone Sound" and it's principly made up of 16 trombones from seven of London's orchestras, but they did round up 60 others to do "76 Trombones".

GinaBeana
07-13-2014, 02:50 PM
These are all jokes from Wilson. "Professor" Hill is a con man. He is a B.S. artist. The point of all of these exaggerations and incorrect information is to represent to the audience that Hill is a liar and really doesn't know anything at all about music. He's making it up as he goes along and figures that no one will know the difference. Meredith Wilson wasn't making mistakes in his writing here. He very intentionally wrote the character like this.

robardin
07-13-2014, 07:53 PM
Ah, "The Music Man."

My two oldest children have names that begin with T and P. So of course, for years, I'd sing, "We''ve got trouble (oh, we've got trouble!) - trouble with a capital T, and that rhymes with P, and that stands for (their names)!"

They didn't get it, of course, but they thought it was hilarious. Then we finally saw "The Music Man" with them and they were like, "HEY!"

C. Montgomery Burns
07-14-2014, 09:45 PM
He's a music man, and he sells clarinets to the kids in the town with the big trombones and the rat-a-tat drums, big brass bass, big brass bass, and the piccolo, the piccolo with uniforms too, with a shiny gold braid on the coat and a big red stripe runnin' . . .

kaylasdad99
07-14-2014, 09:56 PM
We-e-e-ell, I don't know much about music, but I do know you can't make a livin' selling big trombones and rat-a-tat drums. Mandolin picks, perhaps, and here and there a jew's harp . . .

F. U. Shakespeare
07-14-2014, 09:59 PM
But you've got to know the territory!

silenus
07-14-2014, 10:02 PM
I flinch, I shy, when the lass with the delicate air goes by
I smile, I grin, when the gal with a touch of sin walks in.
I hope, and I pray, for a Hester to win just one more "A"
The sadder-but-wiser girl's the girl for me.
The sadder-but-wiser girl for me.

I love Merideth Wilson.

Chronos
07-14-2014, 10:02 PM
Quoth NoCoolUserName:

Brass/horn players (who, sure as shooting are reading this thread) have you ever improvised "a full octave higher than the score"?*
No, but I have improvised a full octave lower than the score. It did not end well. (http://teemings.net/series_1/issue08/christmas.html)

kaylasdad99
07-14-2014, 10:07 PM
I flinch, I shy, when the lass with the delicate air goes by
I smile, I grin, when the gal with a touch of sin walks in.
I hope, and I pray, for a Hester to win just one more "A"
The sadder-but-wiser girl's the girl for me.
The sadder-but-wiser girl for me. To me, Bud Light is the saddest Budweiser of them all...

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