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View Full Version : where can I buy Arsenic ?


Wildfire**MM
08-22-2006, 02:46 PM
Does anyone know ?

simster
08-22-2006, 03:14 PM
Same place you buy old lace....

:)

Schnitte
08-22-2006, 03:25 PM
It depends on your jurisdiction, but due to its toxic effects, Arsenic and its compunds (strictly speaking, Arsenic is an element thant usually occurs in a variety of compunds) is a regulated substance in many countries. This means you cannot buy it without a special license.

CalMeacham
08-22-2006, 03:27 PM
where can I buy Arsenic ?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Does anyone know ?


Big weekend planned?


I'm reluctant to tell people how to get dangerous stuff. If you really are interested, there are plenty of chemical companies, but I think they
ll get suspicious if you end up getting a lot of this stuff.

Annie-Xmas
08-22-2006, 03:51 PM
Read Ira Levin's "A Kiss Before Dying."

Squink
08-22-2006, 03:53 PM
Sigma-Aldrich sells chunks of Arsenic; $51.90 for 5 gtams.

samclem
08-22-2006, 05:26 PM
While I don't think this thread is a good thing, I'll leave it open until someone can show me the sale of arsenic to the public in the US is banned.

I know you can't buy arsenic-treated lumber in the US anymore, but I'd love a cite for the element. I searched and found nothing.

samclem GQ moderator

psychonaut
08-22-2006, 05:48 PM
Does anyone know ?You can mail-order from practically any chemical supply company servicing your area. Google for "chemical supply company" or use the Open Directory (http://dmoz.org) to find a chemical supply company in your area.

Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor
08-22-2006, 06:09 PM
Note that forensic science can easily detect what used to be called "inheritance powder".

Squink
08-22-2006, 06:17 PM
I'd love a cite for the element.I don't think you'll find one.
Arsenic is controlled as a hazardous air pollutant: Hazardous Air Pollutant Regulations (http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:4fGuTTdWqh8J:dhs.gov/dhspublic/interweb/assetlibrary/Mgmt_NEPA_EAforPulsedFastNeutronAnalysisCISatYsletaElPaso.PDF+arsenic+%22illegal+substances%22+site: .gov&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=10&client=firefox-a)
A hazardous air pollutant is any air pollutant known to cause or may reasonably be anticipated to
cause death, injury, or serious adverse effects to human health or the environment. Section 112
of the Clean Air Act gave EPA the authority regulate releases of these materials through the
National Emission Standards for Hazardous Air Pollutants (NESHAP). NESHAP limits have
been established for asbestos, benzene, beryllium, inorganic arsenic, mercury, radionuclides, and
vinyl chloride. Of relevance here is 40 CFR Part 61, Subpart I, which is the NESHAP for
radionuclides. And OSHA regulates arsenic exposure in the workplace (http://osha.gov/SLTC/arsenic/standards.html), but "possession of arsenic" and 'arsenic "illegal substances" site:.gov' turn up no relevant regulations.

Random
08-22-2006, 06:19 PM
While I don't think this thread is a good thing, I'll leave it open until someone can show me the sale of arsenic to the public in the US is banned.

I know you can't buy arsenic-treated lumber in the US anymore, but I'd love a cite for the element. I searched and found nothing.

samclem GQ moderator


At the Federal level, there is the Hazardous Substances Act, 15 USC Sec. 1261 et seq.. It's mainly a labelling law, but Sec. 1277 allows the Consumer Product Safety Commission to classify something as a "banned hazardous substance", and effectively ban it.

Relevant regs seem to be at http://frwebgate1.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/waisgate.cgi?WAISdocID=287466305533+6+0+0&WAISaction=retrieve

I see certain cyanide-containing products listed, but not arsenic. So no outright ban there.

There are separate Federal regulatory schemes primarily concerned with employee safety, materials shipping, air pollution, and water pollution that appear to have have regs restricting arsenic in various ways, but I don't have the hour or so it would take me to wade through all of them. MY sense is that there's no absolute ban on arsenic, but that arsenic-containing compounds are heavily restricted.

Disclaimer. I have not fully researched this. This is preliminary general information and not reliable legal advice. I'm not your lawyer, and you're not my client.

There also might be state or local laws, that by their nature, would vary from place to place.

spingears
08-22-2006, 06:23 PM
While I don't think this thread is a good thing, I'll leave it open until someone can show me the sale of arsenic to the public in the US is banned.
I know you can't buy arsenic-treated lumber in the US anymore, but I'd love a cite for the element. I searched and found nothing.
samclem GQ moderator
Legitimate Uses For Arsenic (http://ucc.ie/academic/chem/dolchem/html/elem/elem033.html)I would expect sales to be limited fo licensed manufacturing users.
IIRC Lead shot is no longer made as it was poisonous to wild fowl shot with it and not killed outright.

Moirai
08-22-2006, 06:23 PM
You start the most interesting threads, Wildfire**MM... Should we be worried about you? ;)

Una Persson
08-22-2006, 06:28 PM
As has been posted earlier in this thread, by at least two people, arsenic can be ordered online or via mail (I prefer Sigma-Aldrich, but they are $$$). Many dangerous chemical substances can be legally ordered online in large quantities, such as mercury, cadmium, weakly radioactive substances, and a variety of hideous acids and bases. While it's possible an individual State may have some restrictions on receipt of these, I cannot find any evidence of a specific instance.

Arsenic as a poison for nefarious purposes is somewhat over-rated.

Gfactor
08-22-2006, 06:34 PM
I know you can't buy arsenic-treated lumber in the US anymore, but I'd love a cite for the element.
Ok.
If arsenic is so dangerous, why is arsenic treated wood still legal?
Arsenic for use as a pesticide has long been banned. Arsenic treated wood is being phased out. In February 2002 the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency announced a voluntary decision by the building industry to remove consumer use of new arsenic treated lumber products by December 31, 2003 in favor of new alternative wood preservatives.

This effects virtually all residential uses of arsenic treated lumber including wood used in play structures, decks, picnic tables, landscaping timbers, residential fencing, patios, railings, docks, walkways, and boardwalks. By January 2004 the EPA will not allow arsenic treated lumber for any residential uses.

http://cvswmd.org/resident_services/arsenic_faqs.html

Gfactor
08-22-2006, 07:34 PM
Michigan requires those who sell arsenic to record their sales:

THE MICHIGAN PENAL CODE (EXCERPT)
Act 328 of 1931


750.432 Recording sales of poisons.

Sec. 432.

Recording sales of poisons—Every apothecary, druggist or other person who sells any arsenic, strychnine, corrosive sublimate, prussic acid or other poison, shall keep a record of the date of such sale, and the article and amount thereof sold, and the person or persons to whom delivered, and their residence, which record shall be open to the inspection of any police officer or physician during the business hours of each day and each and every neglect to keep such record as herein provided, shall be a misdemeanor.http://legislature.mi.gov/(e0jvqp55uxzcebjqcrkrnump)/mileg.aspx?page=getobject&objectname=mcl-750-432&queryid=14976140

Didn't find any statute making it illegal to sell it here.

More on arsenic-treated wood: http://origen.net/arsenic.html



http://janus.state.me.us/legis/statutes/38/title38sec1682.html

GaryM
08-22-2006, 07:51 PM
IIRC Lead shot is no longer made as it was poisonous to wild fowl shot with it and not killed outright.

In the USA lead shot is not permitted for migratory birds, but still used for rabbits and other game animals, as well as birds such as quail.

The problem is not that birds shot with lead and not killed outright had a problem. OK, they had a problem but not because of the lead shot, but the spent shot would fall into the lakes and the bottom feeding duck and geese would ingest the shot and suffer toxic effects.

Una Persson
08-22-2006, 09:35 PM
The problem is not that birds shot with lead and not killed outright had a problem. OK, they had a problem but not because of the lead shot, but the spent shot would fall into the lakes and the bottom feeding duck and geese would ingest the shot and suffer toxic effects.
Don't forget those lead fishing sinkers...(the article also has numbers for the amount of lead from shot too).

https://academicpursuits.us/mailbag/mfishsinkers.html

Johnny L.A.
08-22-2006, 09:47 PM
Many dangerous chemical substances can be legally ordered online in large quantities...
That's good to know, for when I need some HTP for my propulsion experiments. :D

Quartz
08-27-2006, 03:25 PM
While I don't think this thread is a good thing, I'll leave it open until someone can show me the sale of arsenic to the public in the US is banned.
Not the US, but since your readership is international, does this (http://bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A4113983), this (http://tameside.gov.uk/licensing/poisons.htm), or this (http://tradingstandards.gov.uk/milton-keynes/Poisons.htm) count?
Basically, sale of such is tightly controlled. And the OP clearly fails Section three:

be known to the seller, or to the person in charge of the premises on which the substance is sold or of the department of the business in which the sale is effected, to be a person to whom the poison may properly be sold

And he's got to say why he wants it.

Rigamarole
08-27-2006, 03:28 PM
You start the most interesting threads, Wildfire**MM... Should we be worried about you? ;)

First he goes spouting off about how he hates conservatives, and now he's trying to buy arsenic. Hmmm...

handsomeharry
08-28-2006, 09:19 PM
You start the most interesting threads, Wildfire**MM... Should we be worried about you? ;)
If W**MM is the one buying it, he's the last person that we need to worry about! teehee!! :cool:
(my friends call me a regular card)

hh

Jake
08-29-2006, 01:55 PM
Don't forget those lead fishing sinkers...(the article also has numbers for the amount of lead from shot too).

https://academicpursuits.us/mailbag/mfishsinkers.html

Thanks Una, I missed that article. Very informitive, as usual.
Keep 'em coming!

Mama Zappa
08-29-2006, 02:09 PM
Arsenic as a poison for nefarious purposes is somewhat over-rated.

Heh, not if the Discovery Health series Diagnosis Unknown is to believed.... seems like every other episode deals with someone being poisoned by his/her spouse, business partner, or what have you, usually using arsenic. :dubious: If the show is to be believed, folks are poisoning spouses with the stuff every day of the week - seriously... I can count at least 3 episodes from memory. Then again, they would *never* exaggerate the prevalence of that method of spouse disposal, would they? :eek: ;)

Anyway, on that series, it seems like the arsenic often comes from some sort of agricultural stash.

Chronos
08-29-2006, 02:13 PM
One of the reasons arsenic is overrated for use for nefarious purposes is that it's so easy to detect after death. And, of course, the TV shows are going to be biased towards the cases which are recognized as crimes, rather than the ones that look exactly like a natural, died-in-his-sleep heart attack.

Will Repair
08-29-2006, 02:51 PM
Legitimate Uses For Arsenic (http://ucc.ie/academic/chem/dolchem/html/elem/elem033.html)I would expect sales to be limited fo licensed manufacturing users.
IIRC Lead shot is no longer made as it was poisonous to wild fowl shot with it and not killed outright.
Arsenic is no longer used as a pesticde in US.
In fact Chuck Palahniuk mentions in his latest book about how we now slowly torture pests to death with blood thinners instead of killing them outright.

Rodd Hill
08-29-2006, 03:10 PM
"Well, there's four places. There's the Borgia Bodega, that's on third. There's Heavy Metal Mart, that's on third too. You got Nannie Doss' House of Toxicants? That's on third. ... Matter of fact, they're all in the same complex; it's the Arsenic complex on third."

WarmNPrickly
08-29-2006, 10:59 PM
If you don't know where to get it, then you probably don't have any business having it. Arsenic is some bad stuff. Its not the worst stuff, but a bad move could result in serious permanent injury. Fortunately, while your answer has been given, I don't believe they will sell it to you.

Whatever you would like to do with arsenic, I would be surprised if there were not a less nefarious substance that would accomplish what you desire. List your purpose and I would love to contemplate an alternative.

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