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View Full Version : How to kill/disable an attacking dog?


MarcusF
02-27-2008, 09:11 AM
In Britain there has been a significant rise in the number of people bitten by dogs (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/7264620.stm) and reasonably regularly someone is seriously injured or killed (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/west_yorkshire/7165500.stm). Generally the worst of the attacks seem to be where the dog bites and "locks on" to the victim and won't let go, despite the best efforts of other people to get it away.

My question is whether there is any way for an unarmed individual (or armed only with readily available bits and pieces) to disable or kill a dog so as to make it release the victim and not turn on the rescuer?

Hopefully this won't turn into a discussion about the dangers of different breeds or the need for proper training. I'm looking for practical answer. I should say I'm a dog owner myself and part of my concern is that one of the local Rottweilers or bull terriers (most of which seem to have idiots for owners) will attack our dog - a peacable standard Schnauzer - while out on a walk.

Sophistry and Illusion
02-27-2008, 09:15 AM
I'm looking for practical answer. I should say I'm a dog owner myself and part of my concern is that one of the local Rottweilers or bull terriers (most of which seem to have idiots for owners) will attack our dog - a peacable standard Schnauzer - while out on a walk.
To address the practical side, Google reveals a number of pepper sprays and other chemical sprays designed for use against aggressive dogs. You could take that along while walking your dog.

As for what you could do while completely unarmed, I dunno.

mks57
02-27-2008, 09:23 AM
How about going for the dog's eyes with your fingers? That's likely to be the most sensitive and vulnerable part of the dog's body.

don't ask
02-27-2008, 09:27 AM
Just grab your nail gun (http://news.com.au/story/0,23599,23256903-2,00.html)

Dinsdale
02-27-2008, 09:29 AM
IMO the best response would be to kick it as hard as you can in the chest as it is coming at you. Repeat as necessary. Best if you are wearing sturdy footwear.

I have heard many people comment that if a dog is upon you, you can injure it by spreading it's legs, as if snapping a wishbone. But I have no idea as to the accuracy of this.

Another possibility if the dog is upon you would be to smash the dog into something - a tree or post to break its back, or the ground. The best "handle" for doing this would be the dog's collar if he is wearing one, or you could use a leg, tail, or just a handful of skin. You could also do this if it had locked onto your arm.

An ugly topic indeed. IMO, what you would really need to get into your head is a desire to injure an attacking dog, not just scare it off.

Your ability to do so decreases as the dog's size relative to you increases. Also, 2 dogs makes the situation tremendously more difficult.

puppygod
02-27-2008, 09:52 AM
Our ancestors solved it many, many years ago. Use tools. Blunt trauma to the head is fastest way to kill and/or disable. So grab a stick or stone or anything hard and heavy (and I mean anything, even handful of gravel in a sock may be effective blunt weapon) and swing it in a circular motion aiming at upper parts of dogs head, trying to get maximum velocity at the point of impact. Repeat if necessary.

While peppers sprays may work, they may not as well. The same goes for any pain-compliance technique, including "going for eyes". They might deter dog from attacking, but when fight is going in all frenzy, it's possibly too late for that - and at that point time is of essence, as every second increase chance of, say, ruptured artery or tendons or other dangerous damages.

Human "natural weapons" are too weak to fight effectively against predators like dogs. Strangling might be only option in tight lock - possibly using advantage of weight, as most humans are heavier than most dogs.

I would advise against using blades, pointed sticks and other things like that. Chances of hitting vital areas and causing animal to bleed to death reasonably quickly are fairly low unless you are skilled with weapons, know dog anatomy, have habit or luck of having such weapon nearby and can act effectively and accurately under stress.

Bottom line is: go for blunt trauma, use heavy objects and target cranial / backbone area to cause as much damage as quickly as possible.

Acid Lamp
02-27-2008, 10:08 AM
I learned a bit about this in survival training.

For those who have NO experience in fighting anything, and don't even know how to break things without a hammer: Gouge eyes, kick ribcage, genitals, and face. Dogs rely on being scary and barking to get heir prey to freeze or run, remember you are faster in terms of punching and kicking and will outweigh nearly all types of dogs. Get the better of them before they get you. Never run. Scream and threaten them. Make yourself look bigger by throwing your arms around while doing so. You goal is going to be to cause the animal enough pain to get it to cease it's attack. If you can find something heavy to swing, do so.

For those who have had some training of any sort: See the above, if that fails and the dog jumps up at your face, grab the attacking animal's throat and crush it. If you cannot achieve that, headlock the animal and choke it out or break it's neck. If you cannot achieve that, break a limb, or grabbing the hind limbs, smash the animal into a tree, or wall with as much force as you can muster. Repeat as necessary.

Remember, this assumes that you have no other option but to kill the attacking animal.

I am not a professional dog-fighter, YMMV.

smiling bandit
02-27-2008, 11:24 AM
Remember that it's JAWS are the dangerous part. It may scratch you up with the claws, but those are not a serious threat. If you can get control of the head, it can't hurt seriously hurt you. If you can choke it, really good. Don't use your hands if possible, but ball your fists and use your arms as levers. It might do dame damage to one arm if the dog can bite it, but your body weight and the other arm can still take it out.

Bobotheoptimist
02-27-2008, 11:47 AM
If the critter is wearing a not overly stiff collar, it's possible to choke even a large dog into submission. Grab collar and twist, use your forearm to keep the jaws from reaching more vulnerable parts.
You may end up with some wounds on your forearms and you'll come out of the doctors office looking like a failed suicide attempt, but it beats the alternative.
I'm not saying this is the best way to do it, only that it can sometimes work.

I once knew a guy that, when drunk, would swear the best thing to do was jam your fist as far into the dogs mouth as possible. Needless to say, I've not tried this.

Whack-a-Mole
02-27-2008, 11:51 AM
I think people are not realizing just how durable a dog can be. I have read stories of people trying to brain a large dog (e.g. Rottweiler) with heavy lumber and the dog not being fazed by it (of course this may well crush a poodle). Smashing the dog around probably will not suffice. Once clamped on dogs can be startlingly tenacious.

As mentioned I have heard the wishbone thing. If the dog jumps and you can get ahold of the two front legs pull sideways which will dislocate and/or break its legs (they do not go this way). That should be sufficiently painful and disabling to stop the attack.

I have also heard of "giving" the dog your arm if an attack is imminent. Of course this is going to hurt and cause damage to your arm but better than your head or neck and allows you some control. Once it has your arm you can jump on top of it and do whatever you need to (eyes, knee to the groin or abdomen, whatever). If you believe you are in a fight for you life then fight like your life depends on it...dirty tricks and all.

In short seek to disable the dog and not just bash on it ineffectually and hope it will go away. If you think the dog is not trying to kill you but just threatening then avoiding the fight is the best bet. Do NOT run, shout, wave arms, slowly back away all the while facing the dog.

MissTskTsk
02-27-2008, 12:13 PM
Actually, a pretty good way to get a dog to release a victim it has a hold of is to... yes... reach in and pull his tail as hard as possible. It's so distracting and unexpected to them that they let go. They're first natural instinct is to whip around to see what's got a hold of them. It's a safe psychological solution for the dog and victim. I learned this from a trainer I had for a crazy fear aggressive cocker spaniel I used to own.

Only time you'll have a problem with this is with a dog with a severely docked tail.

Honestly, I've broken up dog fights this way at a local off-leash park we have here... works every time. Be quick about it though, some dogs can whip around and get you if you don't jump back quickly.

Gently try this in a non-attack situation with your own dog at home. Pull his tail and watch what he does...

MissTskTsk
02-27-2008, 12:18 PM
I should probably follow up that post to mention that in a very very violent attack, tail pulling might not stop the attack, but it will cause a pause giving you a chance to do what's necessary to control the situtation.

Ike Witt
02-27-2008, 12:24 PM
IMO the best response would be to kick it as hard as you can in the chest as it is coming at you. Repeat as necessary. Best if you are wearing sturdy footwear.
With some dogs, this is useless. Last fall a dog attacked my dog and eventually bit me. That dog had husky like hair and I did kick it in the chest as hard as I could, but the hair absorbed most of the kick, there was nothing to it when I actually made contact with the dog.

Chefguy
02-27-2008, 12:25 PM
If you are talking about rescuing a victim, grab both of the dog's hind legs in a firm grip and lift the hind-quarters off the ground, dragging the animal backwards. This will usually cause the animal to release its bite and will render it unable to turn on you. This is SOP for dog mushers when breaking up a dogfight.

stolichnaya
02-27-2008, 12:44 PM
If a dog is attacking someone else, and is exposed, a huge kick to the ribcage ought to be enough. I don't know if I would try to "free" a dog that is engaged or locked on- I would take advantage of the opportun ity to flank and try to cause maximum damage with the first strike.

I was charged by a rottweiler once on a paper route, I have no idea if he would have really hurt me, but once he was in range I kicked him in the head. That stunned him and then he lost a staredown. Big dog, though, if he had really wanted to hurt me I would have been in trouble.

If you're being charged, I'd say try to cause pain without endangering yourself, if you have decent shoes on, that equals a kick.

Harmonious Discord
02-27-2008, 12:59 PM
One thing to remember in a frenzy pain won't stop a dog. I doubt you'd be able to grab the legs and swing it at all. Breaking the back would not necessarily cause the dog to stop ravishing a person at their jaw's reach. The only thing I can think of a person without any tool doing is to put the knee or elbow down on the dog's neck and crush wind pipe. Other things may work if the dog isn't in a killing frenzy. Now if you have a little time. The weight in a sock is good, or the spike on high heels could be could for an ear or eye puncture. Shoving you shoe in it's mouth could work, to choke it. Holding a shoe or thick stick sideways and coming up from behind, you could slip it into the jaws and keep pulling back like a horse's bit. Keeping the dogs head pushed forward at the same time with your body could stop it from getting the mouth to close again. People with leather belts can use them to keep the jaws shut or strangle them. A stick and sturdy shoe lace can be used to garrote the dog.

Scumpup
02-27-2008, 01:19 PM
The very best method is to shoot the dog with an adequately powerful gun while it is several yards away. A twelve gauge shotgun loaded with buckshot works nicely. Handguns are more difficult to use under stress. If you use a repeater of some kind, you can even deal with multiple dogs.
If the gun option isn't available, as is the case in the UK, a walking stick is a good weapon to use against canine assailants. Don't expect a single blow to solve the problem. Rain blows upon the cur until it flees or it is dead. If you have something longer, a hiking staff for example, you can also use spearing/bayonetting type attacks. Our less technologically advanced ancestors used clubs and pointy sticks to protect themselves from predators much larger and more dangerous than the average domestic dog.
Going unarmed against a dog of any size means you're going to get chewed up some even if you win. If dogs are a problem in the area, I'd make it a point to carry a good, stout walking cane when out for a constitutional. They are still legal, even in the UK.

MissTskTsk
02-27-2008, 01:28 PM
If you are talking about rescuing a victim, grab both of the dog's hind legs in a firm grip and lift the hind-quarters off the ground, dragging the animal backwards. This will usually cause the animal to release its bite and will render it unable to turn on you. This is SOP for dog mushers when breaking up a dogfight.

Really good advice... I've used this technique as well when pulling a dog fight apart if tail pulling doesn't work, or if the dogs tail is docked so short I can't grab it.

Generally speaking, going for the dogs hind quarters and hind legs is the best solution. You're less apt to hurt the animal and most likely to unbalance them. Like any good defensive martial artist will tell you... once your opponent's off balance, you generally have him licked. No different for a dog.

Whack-a-Mole
02-27-2008, 01:42 PM
Generally speaking, going for the dogs hind quarters and hind legs is the best solution. You're less apt to hurt the animal and most likely to unbalance them. Like any good defensive martial artist will tell you... once your opponent's off balance, you generally have him licked. No different for a dog.

To quote something I once heard:

"Grabbing the bull by the horns is not the hard part. The hard part is after you let go." ;)

A.R. Cane
02-27-2008, 01:52 PM
My neghbor's pit got me by the ankle once. I managed to grab hold of his collar and push him to the ground. Then I dropped down w/ my knee on his neck. He was struggling, but he couldn't get free. If my neighbor hadn't shown up, I was prepared to strangle him. This dog was very unpedictable. I had petted and fed him in the past, but he still came after me. Did it to others also, except for his owner.

Chefguy
02-27-2008, 02:17 PM
One thing to remember in a frenzy pain won't stop a dog. I doubt you'd be able to grab the legs and swing it at all. Breaking the back would not necessarily cause the dog to stop ravishing a person at their jaw's reach.

I'm not sure if you are responding to my post or something else. Lifting the hindquarters causes no pain to the animal, nor was I suggesting breaking the dog's back. I also don't believe I said anything about swinging the animal. Raising the hindquarters causes the dog's jaw to slack and it will try to gain better purchase. Without it's rear legs on the ground, a dog has almost no leverage to drive forward and can be removed from the fray much more easily by dragging it backwards. I've seen this done by countless mushers, dealing with very muscular animals. For another reference, see Dog Whisperer episodes where Cesar breaks up dog fights with the same method.

Dinsdale
02-27-2008, 02:20 PM
With some dogs, this is useless. Last fall a dog attacked my dog and eventually bit me. That dog had husky like hair and I did kick it in the chest as hard as I could, but the hair absorbed most of the kick, there was nothing to it when I actually made contact with the dog.

Good point. I guess when I think of an attacking dog I generally envision dogs such as pits, dobes, rotts, or even shephards. Chows or huskies do have much more padding.

Also, I did martial arts including thai boxing and kickboxing for some time, so perhaps I am somewhat over-confident in my personal ability to kick. Also, from my MA background, I would not expect a single kick to disable the dog or stop the attack.

I saw someone hitting a pit over the head and back with a broom handle, and then a baseball bat - to no effect. I do not think, however, that the person was especially trying to injure the dog. Also, if you have a bat or broom handle and know how to use it, you can use it to maintain your distance from the dog. In short, fighting with a 2-handed weapon like a bat does NOT mean swinging it like Ted Williams.

When I think of how I personally would handle an attacking dog, I rely on the fact that I am 200#, in decent shape, and have a pretty high pain tolerance. If a dog were doing anything other than nipping at me, I would not hesitate to do whatever it took to disable or kill it.

MissTskTsk
02-27-2008, 02:37 PM
I've owned and have been around dogs most of my life (long life. LOL) and some of those dogs have been pretty danged aggressive, to the point, a few had to be put down (not ones I owned though) ... i've NEVER been attacked outright. Mainly because I have no fear of even the most vicious dog. They don't mess with me... all 5'1" 100lbs of me. I don' do anything that will set off their natural prey drive, I don't antagonize them, I keep the upper alpha handle on them at all times.

But, if you see someone being attacked, yank tails, or pull their back legs out from under them. Nothing can fight well when it's been unblanced. Dogs who can't use their back legs because you're holding them, have NO leverage.

And, dogs can be remarkably stupid (god love them) most are only barely aware that their back ends are actually a part of their bods, there's a mental disconnect in a dog when it comes to its hind quarters and tail. Touching/handling them in that area generally confuses them temporarily and they don't know how to compensate.

Harmonious Discord
02-27-2008, 03:06 PM
I'm not sure if you are responding to my post or something else. Lifting the hindquarters causes no pain to the animal, nor was I suggesting breaking the dog's back. I also don't believe I said anything about swinging the animal. Raising the hindquarters causes the dog's jaw to slack and it will try to gain better purchase. Without it's rear legs on the ground, a dog has almost no leverage to drive forward and can be removed from the fray much more easily by dragging it backwards. I've seen this done by countless mushers, dealing with very muscular animals. For another reference, see Dog Whisperer episodes where Cesar breaks up dog fights with the same method.

That little bit was for Acid Lamp's post about swinging it into a tree by the hind legs. I don't ever see that as possible except for the tiniest dog.

stolichnaya
02-27-2008, 03:08 PM
Just coming back in to say that this hind-leg technique is a great thing to have in the mental warehouse. Not intuitive, but the explanations make sense, and it seems least likely to harm the dog.

From the perspective of an individual being charged or attacked, though, it would seem to be of little use. Those who know more than me, and there are several in this thread, what would be advised in that situation?

MarcusF
02-27-2008, 03:13 PM
Thanks to everyone for the replies. The lift up their back legs idea is great if trying to get a dog off someone else; not sure we have an answer if Rottweiler has its joys clamped round MY arm :dubious:

I agree absolutely with Miss Tsk Tsk about making sure you're the alpha dog but this not always possible with somebody else's dog where they may not even realise their owner is a superior pack member.

Dinsdale
02-27-2008, 03:24 PM
That little bit was for Acid Lamp's post about swinging it into a tree by the hind legs. I don't ever see that as possible except for the tiniest dog.

Again, depends on who you are and what you are capable of. Having been in the ring with 300+ pound guys, I have no doubt that if the situation called for it I would be able to swing an 80-90# dog into the nearest hard object, even if I was swinging it because its jaws were clamped onto my arm. Yeah, the hind legs would be a preferable handle. But I was coming from the point of view of a dog rushing towards me.

Also, having been around dogs all my life, I have not encountered a dog yet that I was not able to intimidate and dissuade from attacking just by my posture and voice. But we're talking worst-case scenarios here.

Self defense - in all of its manifestations - is ugly shit. And there are no easy answers, and no substitutes for being fit, aware, and considering possibilities beforehand. I think a lot of people get fucked up because they are unwilling and slow to admit that they are in a violent situation and respond in kind.

Whack-a-Mole
02-27-2008, 03:55 PM
Self defense - in all of its manifestations - is ugly shit. And there are no easy answers, and no substitutes for being fit, aware, and considering possibilities beforehand. I think a lot of people get fucked up because they are unwilling and slow to admit that they are in a violent situation and respond in kind.


I think this is a real stumbling block and one I have considered about myself with no resolution in my mind.

Resorting to violence has always been very, very low on my list. I am certainly no pacifist and have gotten violent on a few rare occasions but in almost all respects opting to go there is far from my mind.

As such I may be slow, too slow, to realize and respond appropriately to a legitimate threat to my life (or those around me). I too have been around dogs my whole life and have no desire to kill or maim one unnecessarily. I have been chased and threatened by dogs and like others here I dealt with it without either of us getting hurt.

As a result I may not move to the next level of response quick enough if the dog is intent on tearing my head off. By the time I realize I am in a fight for my life I could be at a serious disadvantage (make no mistake once I make the decision it is a life threatening issue I will do whatever I can to kill/disable that dog by any violent means at my disposal).

Not sure how to sort this. I do not want to start resorting to aggression faster in case 1 out of 10 times it is merited. But I do not want to die/end up in the hospital either.

I dunno...just keep hoping for luck on this one I guess and not have to face it.

Malthus
02-27-2008, 04:17 PM
Most dogs can be intimidated by the brandishing of a weapon, such as a large stick.

When I go walking through the countryside, I always take a heavy walking stick. On a couple of occasions, I've encountered growling dogs on the loose (I assume semi-feral farm-dogs). A yell and waving the stick has always been enough to see them off - at least so far.

MissTskTsk
02-27-2008, 04:46 PM
Thanks to everyone for the replies. The lift up their back legs idea is great if trying to get a dog off someone else; not sure we have an answer if Rottweiler has its joys clamped round MY arm :dubious:

I agree absolutely with Miss Tsk Tsk about making sure you're the alpha dog but this not always possible with somebody else's dog where they may not even realise their owner is a superior pack member.

Depends, if they have their jaws (or joys. LOL) locked on your arm (which not all breeds will do, some maul, some are clampers), stay still, try to stay calm, posture into the highest most threatening position possible, staring right into their eyes, and a firm NO in the best most authorative voice sometimes work. Regardless, showing no fear, staying still and staying high above them if possible is always the first thing to do.

German shepards are clampers, you can see this in police dogs, they clamp and lock their jaws on prey and don't let go until they're intimidated or called off by their owners or someone that knows the right words to use with them. The back leg technique is SUPER effective with clampers because they really use their back legs for leverage (think a dog playing tug-o-war with you)

Staffordshire terriers, like most sporting terriers are maulers or shakers... in some cases, the best thing to do in a vicious attack, if you can't reach their back ends and can't get an upper position on them, is to curl up and protect your face and neck at all costs because that's where they will instinctually attack. They were traditionally bred as ratters/vermin hunters and often kill their prey by breaking its neck. Kicking a staffie in the head is pretty fruitless, they have tough boney heads and boney tough chests. Sometimes playing "dead" with these dogs is quite effective; protect your face and neck any way possible. They're not apt to attack your belly, or other areas of your body.

This is one reason so many people are so dead against people owning Staffies. (personally, I love them), it's very difficult to protect yourself from one of their blind mauling rages. They are built and bred as killing machines with incredibly strong prey drive... that doesn't mean they're bad dogs, not at all, but they can be very dangerous given the work they were bred to do naturally.

Acid Lamp
02-27-2008, 07:21 PM
That little bit was for Acid Lamp's post about swinging it into a tree by the hind legs. I don't ever see that as possible except for the tiniest dog.

Depends on the person. I'm not a large man, 5'7 155-160, and I routinely wrestle with my dog who is 65 lbs. I have no problem picking her up at all even when she does not care to be held. It is just one of several alternatives that was suggested to us. The actual advice given to us regarding fighting an attack dog, was "Shoot it."

What you do and how you handle it will depend greatly on both yourself, and how the altercation occurs. You won't have time to evaluate and plan, only react. The trick is to minimize injury and maximize retaliation.

TV time
02-27-2008, 07:41 PM
When I was being trained in a rather obscure military service years ago we had an instructor come in, and he suggested this. He was totally sincere and he said it had worked for him during World War II in North Africa. Fortunately, I never got to try it.

He said when the dog attacks, you give it your left forearm to bite (He said trained guard dogs have been taught to take the arm) as it does you cram the forearm hard into the mouth (this, he said will lessen the pain in the arm. He said that when the dog's mouth is fully open it has less power than when it is half way closed). At this ooint you use your leverage (of the arm in the mouth) to turn the dog on its back. With your arm firmly in its mouth, you then bite the dog in the throat hard and rip at it until the dog is either dead or has bled so much that it is not a threat any longer.

As I said I never got the chance to try it. Darn.

Diceman
02-27-2008, 10:46 PM
If the dog was attacking me, I'd probably try to kick it in the mouth, with the goal being to break its jaw. As mentioned above, most dogs don't use their claws much, so if I can render it unable to bite, I've won. If it was attacking someone else, or my pet, I'd probably kick it in the genitals, and then when it turned around to attack me, kick #2 would be aimed at its mouth, as mentioned above.

Does this sound like a reasonable strategy?

Dag Otto
02-27-2008, 11:07 PM
If you can get on top of the dog, I think using your weight to crush the dog's ribcage will asphyxiate the animal. Severe blows to the ribcage may also cause trauma to the heart or lungs that may eventually stop the dog.

appleciders
02-27-2008, 11:27 PM
When I was being trained in a rather obscure military service years ago we had an instructor come in, and he suggested this. He was totally sincere and he said it had worked for him during World War II in North Africa. Fortunately, I never got to try it.

He said when the dog attacks, you give it your left forearm to bite (He said trained guard dogs have been taught to take the arm) as it does you cram the forearm hard into the mouth (this, he said will lessen the pain in the arm. He said that when the dog's mouth is fully open it has less power than when it is half way closed). At this ooint you use your leverage (of the arm in the mouth) to turn the dog on its back. With your arm firmly in its mouth, you then bite the dog in the throat hard and rip at it until the dog is either dead or has bled so much that it is not a threat any longer.

As I said I never got the chance to try it. Darn.
Your username is extraordinarily appropriate for this post.

LouisB
02-28-2008, 01:06 AM
The actual advice given to us regarding fighting an attack dog, was "Shoot it."Due to some local residents habit of walking large, aggressive ( Rottweilers, Pit Bulls, etc) off leash, I've taken to carrying my gun when walking my dog. My mind set has become "shoot the damn dog first and its damn owner second." I doubt my reflexes would be up to it, though.

GusNSpot
02-28-2008, 01:28 AM
When riding the back roads on my motorcycle, I go slow, gravel and long front ends do not do well .... When the dogs come a barking, I ride lowly out of sight of their house, stop and shot a couple rounds into the road. Scares the hell out of the dogs and their owners also. They think they have just lost a couple of dogs.
Never had a dog continue the attack when the gun goes bang...

Queen Bruin
02-28-2008, 01:38 AM
Due to some local residents habit of walking large, aggressive ( Rottweilers, Pit Bulls, etc) off leash, I've taken to carrying my gun when walking my dog. My mind set has become "shoot the damn dog first and its damn owner second." I doubt my reflexes would be up to it, though.
Anecdote: an acquaintance of mine was mauled a few years ago. When the police got there, the dog took a full magazine of whatever it is LA Sheriff carries (9mm I'm guessing?). It took a few 12ga to finish the job. She lost a breast and cannot use her right arm. If the dog is big enough and wants to chomp you bad enough, it'll take a bit to bring it down.

BrainFireBob
02-28-2008, 01:57 AM
If being attacked, see if you can grab the muzzle and hold it closed. I've done this to dogs- stare them in the eyes, and within seconds they demonstrate submissive body language and behavior (whining, tail between legs, ears down but not flat, etc). I've also heard it recomended as a way to train dogs non-violently if they're agressive. Dogs aren't as bad as crocodiles, but still can't exert too much force in opening the jaw relative to closing it.

Some dog breeds, you can twist their ears to cause them mind-bending pain- this technique is, as I understand, used to train Rottweilers, because their ears are atypically sensitive to touch. My sister was warned when training her Rottweiler never to strike it anywhere near the ears, because the dog may turn mean and viscious.

Striking a leaping dog between the eyes sharply or kicking it in the collarbone between the legs will often drive it off. Dogs go for the throat when killing each other, locking an arm around a dog's throat from behind while holding a second hand on its head such as it can't turn to bite you might also work, but you have to trust your reflexes and be willing to put your face near those teeth.

Now, if a dog is determined to kill, or trained to ignore attempts to incapacitate, more or less you need to kill it. Just remember that they can only lift their heads so far up, so if you can get behind or to the side of it, you can control its head worst case and wait for help.

Pushkin
02-28-2008, 04:57 AM
I have heard many people comment that if a dog is upon you, you can injure it by spreading it's legs, as if snapping a wishbone. But I have no idea as to the accuracy of this

An ex-soldier stated that on a chat show in the UK, to which the host Clive Anderson enquired is it something that could be done to an annoying poodle in the park.

Of course, the soldier's first answer was just to shoot them ;)


Personally, I've given it thought now that I've my little girl to walk about the city streets with. Survival techniques start with lifting her up out of the way and into a garden with a fence if I can then for myself, make sure the dog doesn't get me down on the ground and kick at its face if cornered or stuck.

mks57
02-28-2008, 05:29 AM
In the 19th century the French produced the Velo-Dog revolver, a pocket pistol for bicyclists and others who might be attacked by dogs. You can still get ammo for it.

Pushkin
02-28-2008, 06:26 AM
In the 19th century the French produced the Velo-Dog revolver

What a dinky (http://hellinahandbasket.net/2006/10/doggin_the_velo.htm) little gun, I'd love one of those to turn on the small yappy type dogs that are the bane of any urban walker.

Dinsdale
02-28-2008, 09:08 AM
He said when the dog attacks, you give it your left forearm to bite ...

In martial arts, especially when you are talking bladed weapons, it is very common to encounter folks who recommend that you strategically "give up" a limb. Personally, I never found such arguments convincing.

Whack-a-Mole
02-28-2008, 09:47 AM
My sister was warned when training her Rottweiler never to strike it anywhere near the ears, because the dog may turn mean and viscious.



Erm...how about being told to not strike it anywhere when training? I have a 100# German Shepherd and she has never been hit in her life and she is a well-trained, sweet and gentle dog.

Cluricaun
02-28-2008, 09:59 AM
In martial arts, especially when you are talking bladed weapons, it is very common to encounter folks who recommend that you strategically "give up" a limb. Personally, I never found such arguments convincing.

Blades are nasty, nasty business, and you do go into it with the idea that yes, you are going to get cut. How badly and where depends on how well you've trained or sometimes how well the other guy is trained. The current trend in knife fighting training is to surrender your weak side forearm to damage to protect your vitals. That's why bladed weapons and leather jackets go so well together.

Come to think of it, a nice thick motorcycle jacket might be appropriate apparel when out strolling around in suspect dog territory.

wolfman
02-28-2008, 10:01 AM
"The Jam your hand in it's mouth thing" does actually work pretty well, But I have only tried it with aggressive family dogs, not a big trained killer dog. It's kind of a wierd instinct as soon as you realize the dog is in mid bite on your hand. You just naturally shove your hand to the back of it's mouth/throat, and make a fist as hard as you can. It plugs the mouth and the throat, and the dog panics a bit, but cant really do anything, can't bite, and can't get away.

However. It still does hurt, and your hand and arm end up scratched pretty good,

I wouldn't try it on a pit bull or any dog with that kind of jaw strength, cause I'm pretty sure it could smash your hand out of the fist.

Dinsdale
02-28-2008, 10:13 AM
The current trend in knife fighting training is to surrender your weak side forearm to damage to protect your vitals.

I don't desire to hijack this thread, and I agree that getting cut is a near inevitability in a knife fight. However, in my mind there is a difference between being aware of the possibility of using your off side to deflect strikes to more vital areas IF NEEDED, as opposed to adopting a strategy in which you INTEND to get cut somewhere. Somewhat of a difference, no?

I've got a lot of doubts about much of the value of much of what I encountered as "knife fighting" training, but that would be fodder for another thread.

masterofnone
02-28-2008, 10:38 AM
Resorting to violence has always been very, very low on my list.
Unless you're dealing with moles, right? ;)

Little Nemo
02-28-2008, 12:29 PM
I've heard that the safest way to hold an attacking dog is to grab its head with both hands right below the ears. You'll have control of its head so it won't be able to turn and bite either arm and you can hold it at arms length so it won't be able to claw you. The trick is to be able to grab it like this in the first place and then to figure out what you're going to do with it.

GusNSpot
02-28-2008, 12:30 PM
My Daddy always said that if it was not worth killin over, it was not worth fightin over. If it was worth killin over, then do it from behind with a pair of .45's.

This whole thread is a good argument for concealed carry.

The average person who walks around lose dogs without thinking about the dangers is not going to be able to follow any of this advice. They will not be able to do anything but scream and flail about as they will be too terrified and hopped up on adrenaline... If the dog is big or trained to kill at all, they are toast unless maybe trying to protect their child.

Do not try to teach the defense of, but the prevention of getting into the danger in the first place. Soccer Mom is not going to be able to do any of this.

Easiest and least needing any training what so ever is a big walking stick for those that will not learn to avoid the problem or carry a better weapon.

Those in this thread are at least thinking about the problem and so stand a better chance.

Joe & Jane never will....

YMMV

stolichnaya
02-28-2008, 12:31 PM
In my personal experience with dogs, the best way to get a dog to stop attacking you would be to order it to attack you.

Tom Tildrum
02-28-2008, 01:13 PM
I'm just glad the OP's thread title didn't finish with "...(need answer fast!)".

Max Torque
02-28-2008, 02:04 PM
This whole thread is a good argument for concealed carry.
Ayuh. My wife, who has been vehemently against handguns all her life, is now considering getting a CHL because of recent dog attacks in our city. About two weeks ago, a loose pit bull attacked a three-year-old boy (http://kcbd.com/global/story.asp?s=7883510), seriously wounding him. The report said that, after the child's grandfather beat the dog into running away, it attacked a doberman and tore its leg off. And earlier this year, two pit bulls attacked some miniature horses belonging to a charity called "Hearts & Hooves" (http://kcbd.com/Global/story.asp?s=7886205) (they take the miniature horses indoors to people who need therapeutic healing, a sort of "lift spirits" thing). Two horses died, and three others were seriously injured. Not to mention the 10 or so goats (show animals, mostly) that dogs have killed in the past two months.

So, now my wife's afraid to go out walking, especially with our 10-month-old in a stroller. I'm going to get her some professional handgun instruction, to overcome her misgivings, and then we'll see about the CHL.

manistop
10-11-2015, 04:36 AM
Steps:

If an attack dog rushes at you and you are completely unarmed and know its an attack and it is in kill mode:

1. Stand tall, firm. Plant feet firmly on the ground and bend knees a little so you DO NOT LOSE BALANCE. Keep your eyes on its eyes - the dog is having a stare down, but you should be locating your target. Take a real deep breath, this is going to be ugly.

2. Yell NO! with authority while quickly snatching its collar and kicking out its back legs and smashing it on the head with your fist. If no collar, go for its neck but DO NOT LOSE BALANCE. If necessary, give it an arm to chew on, but move to step 3 very fast.

Note: if it goes for a leg, skip step two.

3. Twist the collar and pull up while shoving your index finger as deep into the eye socket as possible, choking it out and gouging eye(s). No collar? Quickly and brutally shove your index finger into an eye socket as deep as possible as fast as you can. DO NOT HESITATE. Do not remove the finger, keep it all the way in.

4. When your other hand is free, take the index finger of that hand and shove it into the dogs other eye as deep and as brutal as possible.

5. Curl fingers up and back, lodging them deep into its skull, hopefully puncturing its brain.

Bottom line: when fight or flight kicks in, use it to your advantage to get your fingers in the eyes with aggression and speed. Go straight for the eyes without hesitation.

bob++
10-11-2015, 04:53 AM
Maybe this should morph into How to kill/disable an attacking zombie?

GusNSpot
10-11-2015, 01:32 PM
#1 = Guns, big guns.

Dewey Finn
10-11-2015, 01:41 PM
If an attack dog rushes at you and you are completely unarmed and know its an attack and it is in kill mode:
So where were you seven years ago when the OP was being attacked by a dog?

Lucas Jackson
10-11-2015, 01:56 PM
Steps:

If an attack dog rushes at you and you are completely unarmed and know its an attack and it is in kill mode:

1. Stand tall, firm. Plant feet firmly on the ground and bend knees a little so you DO NOT LOSE BALANCE. Keep your eyes on its eyes - the dog is having a stare down, but you should be locating your target. Take a real deep breath, this is going to be ugly.

2. Yell NO! with authority while quickly snatching its collar and kicking out its back legs and smashing it on the head with your fist. If no collar, go for its neck but DO NOT LOSE BALANCE. If necessary, give it an arm to chew on, but move to step 3 very fast.

Note: if it goes for a leg, skip step two.

3. Twist the collar and pull up while shoving your index finger as deep into the eye socket as possible, choking it out and gouging eye(s). No collar? Quickly and brutally shove your index finger into an eye socket as deep as possible as fast as you can. DO NOT HESITATE. Do not remove the finger, keep it all the way in.

4. When your other hand is free, take the index finger of that hand and shove it into the dogs other eye as deep and as brutal as possible.

5. Curl fingers up and back, lodging them deep into its skull, hopefully puncturing its brain.

Bottom line: when fight or flight kicks in, use it to your advantage to get your fingers in the eyes with aggression and speed. Go straight for the eyes without hesitation.
These are all good points. Thanks. I'll be printing this out and keeping it on my person at all times as I'm sure it will come in handy some day.

I just hope when I do have to use it the attacking dog will not only have the good manners to attack me in the prescribed manner but will also give me time to reference my notes in between steps.

obbn
10-11-2015, 02:19 PM
A food in a mission is very difficult to stop. Our neighbors pit bull attacked one of our dogs and my wife attempted to break it up. The dog bit her arm. She grabbed a metal pole and stabbed the dog in it's eye, the pole entering is socket and going in about 3 inches. The damn dog barely even blinked.

About that time I became aware of the situation and grabbed my shotgun. I fired into the air and it took two shots before he broke off the attack and ran. Had I had a clear shot he would have been drt (dead right there). It was really scary to think that this dog continued his attack despite having a pole stuck in it's eye socket.

Dewey Finn
10-11-2015, 02:24 PM
A food in a mission is very difficult to stop.
So what's a "food in a mission?" Or is that some sort of bizarre autocorrect typo?

billfish678
10-11-2015, 02:34 PM
I'll just throw this out.

I USED to think if I was attacked by a dog, I would use force in proportion to the threat, because I'm a nice guy and don't wanna hurt some "innocent dog".

AFTER being attacked by a pack of dogs. I think differently.

I won't pretend to be an expert on what does or doesn't work.

But I will say, once the fighting starts and it is more than one dog, or one even moderately large dog, do your level best to fucking maim or kill that SOB as soon, fast and hard as you can.

Now is NOT the time to piss around with a measured response.

Jackmannii
10-11-2015, 06:04 PM
It's probably too late for the OP :( but in "A Deadly Shade Of Gold", Travis McGee uses his military training to disable and kill a dog that charges him during a nighttime reconnaissance of the bad guy's estate.

As the dog leaps at you, fall backwards while grabbing a front leg and hurling the dog outward and beyond you. With any luck it'll dislocate their leg and they'll smash headfirst into a wall. Requires superlative reflexes, sure hands and willing suspension of disbelief.

MrQwertyasd
10-12-2015, 01:47 AM
I once knew a guy that, when drunk, would swear the best thing to do was jam your fist as far into the dogs mouth as possible. Needless to say, I've not tried this.

It might work. It works with bears (http://uk.businessinsider.com/ap-hunter-escapes-attack-by-shoving-arm-down-bears-throat-2015-10?r=US&IR=T).

MarcusF
10-12-2015, 08:48 AM
It's probably too late for the OP :( but in "A Deadly Shade Of Gold", Travis McGee uses his military training to disable and kill a dog that charges him during a nighttime reconnaissance of the bad guy's estate.

As the dog leaps at you, fall backwards while grabbing a front leg and hurling the dog outward and beyond you. With any luck it'll dislocate their leg and they'll smash headfirst into a wall. Requires superlative reflexes, sure hands and willing suspension of disbelief.Seven years on and I can do the willing suspension of disbelief but I'm not sure about the superlative reflexes :)

Max Torque
10-12-2015, 11:12 AM
The only additions I have to what I said seven years ago is: use your posture and voice to defuse the situation if you can. Not long after I posted the above, I was pushing a stroller containing the little Torqueling down a long fenced road when a dog appeared at the other end, ears pricked up, interested. I had nowhere to run, and would be at a severe disadvantage in a fight due to the need to defend my toddler. So, I kept walking toward it, not speeding or slowing.

When I got level with the dog, without changing pace, I looked down at him, and clearly and firmly I said, "HOME." His ears drooped, and he backed off. He'd heard the voice of command. Threat neutralized. So, do that if you can.

Failing that, there are two rules: fight dirty, and stay on your feet.

longhair75
10-12-2015, 02:17 PM
.45acp: because shooting twice is just silly

Jenn_Eris
10-12-2015, 06:49 PM
As a kid, I dealt with dogs everyday on a paper route. If you tried to ride away on your bike, the chase was instantly on. I learned to get off my bike and keep it between me and the dog. However if the dog wants to bite you, you just are not quick enough to stop it. I got bit on the ass and I decided to buy pepper spray. I sprayed that dog the next day, and he never came after me again. I sprayed one other dog, and I never had one chase me again on the route. At that point I was no longer scared. I would still get off the bike if I was approached by a dog, but I'm pretty sure they read my posture and somehow realized I wasn't scared.

Many years later my kids were chased into our kids tree fort by a neighbors pit bull. I grabbed my shotgun and went outside. I didn't even say anything to the dog. I just went out side and got close enough to make sure I would hit it. It saw me taking aim, and it decided that my yard was not a place to be, and took off. I then wrote a letter to the Sherrif, describing the incident, and asking for his help. Amazingly enough, our neighbors were much more diligent in not letting their dog off the leash after that....

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