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View Full Version : Illegal driving lesson with dad. So how can somebody learn to drive then?


aceplace57
10-08-2013, 11:43 AM
Teaching the kid how to drive is a tradition. I taught both my daughters. My uncle taught me. I can't think of anyone that I know that didn't learn from a relative.

This guy screwed up royally letting his kid learn in a small store parking lot. I taught both my daughters on a dirt road near my deer camp. Then we practiced on some country roads without traffic. Eventually, after a dozen trips on back roads, I let her drive to the outskirts of town before I took the wheel. We must have logged three hundred miles in six months before she took her drivers test. It's one of my favorite dad memories with my daughters.

What gets me is the citation for driving without a learners permit. :confused: You can't get a permit unless you pass the written test and the driving test. A total beginner can't get a learners permit.

Are they really criminalizing every person that teaches a relative to drive? Or did they just cite this guy for causing an accident? He was dumb as hell for letting a rank beginner learn in a small parking lot.
http://nydailynews.com/news/national/fail-teen-crashes-gas-station-father-son-driving-lesson-article-1.1479227
A Florida dad who took his son out for an illegal driving lesson has been left counting the cost - after he smashed their Toyota Camry straight into a store.

John Burbridge thought it would be a nice treat to take 16-year-old Andrew out onto the open road on Sunday to pass on his motoring skills.
<snip>
Hillsborough County Sheriff's deputies cited both Burbridge men for the incident - Andrew for driving without a learner's permit and his dad for permitting an unauthorized driver.

running coach
10-08-2013, 11:46 AM
Florida only requires written/online tests (http://flhsmv.gov/ddl/teendriv.html) for a learner's permit.

chrisk
10-08-2013, 11:48 AM
Yeah, I've never heard of anywhere that requires a driving test for a learner's permit. The test to get a learner permit is to show that you've studied enough of the theory that maybe you won't be a menace with a teacher in the front seat. ;)

aceplace57
10-08-2013, 11:50 AM
Oh. A weird state.

Ok. Here in my state you must pass the written and driving tests to get a learners permit.
http://dmv.org/ar-arkansas/teen-drivers.php
Arkansas Learner’s License

You are eligible to apply for a learner’s license in Arkansas at 14 years old. Learner’s permit tests are administered by the Arkansas State Police; therefore, you will need to visit an ASP testing site to take your exams and earn your learner's license.

Bring your parent or guardian and:

Submit your:
Birth certificate.
Proof of school enrollment with at least a 2.0 GPA (grade point average).
If you have already graduated high school, submit proof of graduation.
Proof of legal presence in the U.S. (U.S. birth certificate, U.S. passport, Naturalization Certificate).
Proof of identity (must contain full name and date of birth).
You can either provide 2 primary documents, or 1 primary document plus 1 secondary document. Please see the state’s list of acceptable proofs.
Social Security number, or an affidavit stating you do not have a SSN.
Pass the written exam.
The State Police provides study guides to use before you apply.
Pass the vision exam.
Pass the behind-the-wheel driving test.
Pay the $20 Class D learner license fee.

hajario
10-08-2013, 11:51 AM
It's been more years ago than I care to think but when I got a learner's permit, I only had to pass a written test. According to my co-worker, that's still the case in California.

I, along with all of my friends, learned to drive in a huge office park parking lot on a Sunday but far away from any buildings.

chrisk
10-08-2013, 11:54 AM
Oh. A weird state.

Ok. Here in my state you must pass the written and driving tests to get a learners permit.

Out of curiosity, which state is that?

want2befree
10-08-2013, 11:56 AM
I've been teaching my daughter in parking lots and industrial areas on the weekends. I don't live out in the country so that's not an option. Where else would/could I teach her? Well, if anything, this news has given me pause.

Inner Stickler
10-08-2013, 11:56 AM
Out of curiosity, which state is that?
Arkansas?

Leaffan
10-08-2013, 11:58 AM
Arkansas. (According to ace's profile.)



Ninjad

aceplace57
10-08-2013, 11:58 AM
Yes Arkansas. We start with a learners license, Intermediate Driver’s License (at 16), and then a full license.

They only had learners permits and full license when I learned in the 70's.

aceplace57
10-08-2013, 12:02 PM
That sounds like a smart plan. Huge open space to learn. Nothing to hit if your daughter is slow pressing the brake.

The guy in the news story let his kid drive in a tiny convenience store parking lot. That's just too confined a space and too many people to be safe.

I've been teaching my daughter in parking lots and industrial areas on the weekends. I don't live out in the country so that's not an option. Where else would/could I teach her? Well, if anything, this news has given me pause.

running coach
10-08-2013, 12:06 PM
I looked through the Arkansas DMV site. Basically, you go to a driving school before you start the process. It does mention driving time but no mention if it's on the road or in a lot somewhere.

Saint Cad
10-08-2013, 12:10 PM
Lesson to be learned. When doing something illegal (driving without a permit), don't fuck up (drive into a store).

As for the Arkansas issue, according to this page (http://dmv.org/ar-arkansas/drivers-permits.php) you only need to pass a written and vision test and have a GPA above 2.0.

muldoonthief
10-08-2013, 12:12 PM
Oh. A weird state.

Ok. Here in my state you must pass the written and driving tests to get a learners permit.
http://dmv.org/ar-arkansas/teen-drivers.php

dmv.org is not the official state website, and their information is incorrect in this case.

Here's what I found in the Arkansas drivers study guide (https://static.ark.org/eeuploads/asp/dl_study_guide_vol_1_edition_6_august_2011.pdf), under "Types of Graduated Driver Licenses"

Instruction Permit – This permit allows a driver to operate a motor vehicle when
accompanied by a licensed driver, twenty-one years of age or older, who is occupying
a seat beside the driver, except in the event the permit holder is operating a motorcycle.
The applicant for an instruction permit must be at least fourteen years of age. To
obtain the instruction permit, an applicant must pass the knowledge test and vision
test. If the applicant is under the age of eighteen, a consent form signed by the
applicant’s parent or legal guardian must be submitted along with grade and
attendance forms from the applicant’s high school. The permit is issued for six months
and can be renewed for an additional six month period if the applicant has not been
at fault in an accident or been convicted of a serious traffic violation within the
preceding six month period.

Learner’s License – This license is a restricted license issued to persons between
fourteen and sixteen years of age. The applicant must possess a valid Instruction Permit
indicating successful completion of the required knowledge, vision and skills tests. The applicant must not have been at fault in a traffic crash or been convicted of a serious
traffic violation within the preceding six months prior to application. A person operating
a motor vehicle with a Learner’s License must be accompanied by a licensed driver who is
at least twenty-one years of age and all passengers riding in a motor vehicle being
operated by a person with an Instruction Permit must wear safety seat belts while the
vehicle is operating. Cellular phones are prohibited by law for telephone conversations
except for an emergency. Text messaging is also prohibited.


So the Instruction Permit is what you get first, and only requires the written and eye tests. The Learner's License is what you get next, and requires that you already have an Instruction Permit. The only difference I see between them is that the Instruction Permit requires a licensed driver 21 years old to sit in the front seat, while the Learner's License only requires the licensed driver to be in the car.

Ravenman
10-08-2013, 12:13 PM
The last post about driving school notwithstanding, it sounds like Arkansas is the state with the stupid law that creates the appearance of a catch 22 -- have to pass a road test to get a learner permit, but can't practice for the road test without a learner permit.

running coach
10-08-2013, 12:15 PM
Lesson to be learned. When doing something illegal (driving without a permit), don't fuck up (drive into a store).

As for the Arkansas issue, according to this page (http://dmv.org/ar-arkansas/drivers-permits.php) you only need to pass a written and vision test and have a GPA above 2.0.

I was looking at this page. (http://dmv.org/ar-arkansas/teen-drivers.php)
You are eligible to apply for a learner’s license in Arkansas at 14 years old. Learner’s permit tests are administered by the Arkansas State Police; therefore, you will need to visit an ASP testing site to take your exams and earn your learner's license.

Bring your parent or guardian and:

Submit your:
Birth certificate.
Proof of school enrollment with at least a 2.0 GPA (grade point average).
If you have already graduated high school, submit proof of graduation.
Proof of legal presence in the U.S. (U.S. birth certificate, U.S. passport, Naturalization Certificate).
Proof of identity (must contain full name and date of birth).
You can either provide 2 primary documents, or 1 primary document plus 1 secondary document. Please see the state’s list of acceptable proofs.
Social Security number, or an affidavit stating you do not have a SSN.
Pass the written exam.
The State Police provides study guides to use before you apply.
Pass the vision exam.
Pass the behind-the-wheel driving test.
Pay the $20 Class D learner license fee.

Looks like they have two different sets of requirements. :rolleyes:

muldoonthief
10-08-2013, 12:17 PM
I was looking at this page. (http://dmv.org/ar-arkansas/teen-drivers.php)

Looks like they have two different sets of requirements. :rolleyes:

No, they have 2 different things. An Instruction Permit, which doesn't require a driving test, and Learner's License, which does. Again, dmv.org is NOT any state's official website, and got this wrong. Trust it at your own risk.

aceplace57
10-08-2013, 12:18 PM
<shrug> I guess things changed since I learned. I made sure my daughters knew how to drive before getting their permit. Thats how I learned too. I don't recall my daughters getting a Learner's License. I'm pretty sure they started with a permit at age 15 (this was 2005). The law may have changed in the past few years.

I agree it does make sense to issue a learners permit first. That way the student driver is legally protected.

running coach
10-08-2013, 12:24 PM
No, they have 2 different things. An Instruction Permit, which doesn't require a driving test, and Learner's License, which does. Again, dmv.org is NOT any state's official website, and got this wrong. Trust it at your own risk.

:smack::smack::smack:
*note self:double check which site you're on*

SanVito
10-08-2013, 12:26 PM
How can you learn to drive before you've got a learner's permit? Okay, if you live on a big farm with loads of private roads, but that isn't most people.

In the UK, you apply for a provisional licence, which I guess is our equivalent of a learner's permit. No test for this, written or otherwise, and any full licence holder can then give you lessons. On normal roads.

My first lesson was on roads in the centre of town. No parking lot or field for me. Just straight into traffic, that's how most of us learn here, and we have some of the strictest driving tests in the world.

Good grief, looking at runner pat's link, you can drive at 14 in Arkansas? And need to prove you can drive before this? What age do people start?

No one hits the road in any form before 17 here. I think that's even too young.

Sahirrnee
10-08-2013, 12:27 PM
Here in MD you pass a written test to get a learner's permit, then you start driving.
You can apply at 15 years 9 months but then you need a sealed letter from the high school stating you haven't missed more that so many days from school. Miss too many days and you can't get it.

You have to take drivers ed with includes at least 6 hours of driving instruction. I think it is 30 hours of classroom.

Then you have to keep a log of at least 60 hours of driving experience with all kinds of criteria which must be met - so many daytime, dusk, dawn, nighttime hours, driving in inclement weather at different times, driving in the city, on the highway, in different traffic conditions.

There's even a place in the log for the parent/teen contract outlining the rules and consequences for breaking the rules.
It's a good thing... after all, without the state to guide me how in the world could I ever raise a child.

SanVito
10-08-2013, 12:31 PM
Then you have to keep a log of at least 60 hours of driving experience with all kinds of criteria which must be met - so many daytime, dusk, dawn, nighttime hours, driving in inclement weather at different times, driving in the city, on the highway, in different traffic conditions.

How do they track what you've put in the log? Couldn't you just make it up?

None of that here. You just take the written test, then the driving test, and you're good to go. Except most people fail.

steronz
10-08-2013, 12:35 PM
<shrug> I guess things changed since I learned. I made sure my daughters knew how to drive before getting their permit. Thats how I learned too. I don't recall my daughters getting a Learner's License. I'm pretty sure they started with a permit at age 15 (this was 2005). The law may have changed in the past few years.

I agree it does make sense to issue a learners permit first. That way the student driver is legally protected.

Things have changed a lot in the last 10 years in terms of teen driving. When I got my license in 1995, it was a written test at 15.5 to get a learner's permit, and a driving test at 16 to get full driving privileges. Now there are curfews (no driving after dark unless it's for work) until you're 18, and there's a period of time where you're only allowed to drive with a licensed adult 18+ in the passenger seat. Many states adopted similar laws, and it wouldn't surprise me if Arkansas' graduated license plan started recently.

The important thing is to read and understand the local laws before deciding that "this is how I learned when I was a kid" and taking your kid to a parking lot where they drive through a store.

cochrane
10-08-2013, 12:43 PM
I don't remember having to take a test before getting my learner's permit, but this was back in 1973, when the war on ignorance was just getting underway. This was in Pennsylvania. You could get your permit at the age of 15 years and 9 months. I learned from both my parents, first in parking lots, then on the street. There were two classes of licenses. There was a junior license you possessed if you were between 16 and 18. It was restricted in the number of hours you could drive. You couldn't drive between midnight and 6 AM unless you had a licensed driver at least 18 years old in the front seat with you. You automatically received a full license at age 18, or if you were under 18 you could get a full license if you had your parents' permission and passed a drivers' ed class.

Also, I wore an onion on my belt, which was the fashion of the time.

UncleRojelio
10-08-2013, 01:42 PM
I'm in the process of teaching my son to drive here in Texas. There was only a written exam to get his learner's permit. As of now we are working on getting the required 20 hours of behind-the-wheel experience done. He is required to wait 6 months from obtaining the permit before he is allowed to test for the license.

Cat Whisperer
10-08-2013, 02:10 PM
I'd love it if they made it illegal for parents to teach their kids to drive. Have you been on the roads lately? You think parents are *qualified* to teach their kids to drive? I don't. Driving is the most dangerous thing we all do regularly, and the requirements for acquiring these skills seem ridiculously lax to me. 25,580 fatal car crashes in 2012 in the US? (http://statisticbrain.com/car-crash-fatality-statistics-2/) How is this not outraging everyone, every day? (The fatal crashes are actually going down, but I think that's a factor of safety in the cars, not better drivers.)

Saint Cad
10-08-2013, 02:18 PM
Colorado.
15 - 15.5 yo
Identification
30 hours classroom instruction passed less than 6 months before applying for the permit.
Written and vision test.
Parental Affidavit of Liability Guardianship

15.5-16
Same as above but you can substitute a 4 hour driver awareness program for the 30 hour class :confused:

Getting a license
Permit for 12 months
50 hours of driving time logged by parent or driver ed teacher.
6 hour behind the wheel certificate (in addition to your 50 logged hours)
Drive test
Proof of address

Ranger Jeff
10-08-2013, 02:40 PM
Back in my day, at 16 you could get a learner's permit by passing a written test and showing your Driver's Ed Certificate of Completion. Come to think of it, we did drive in Driver's Ed, but it was in a vehicle that was BOLDLY MARKED as a DE car, it had dual brakes, and the instructor was in the front passenger seat. I think you had to wait until you were 18 if you didn't take Driver's Ed.

At that time, they had recently made a new rule that you could NOT get your Driver's License the same day you got your Learner's Permit. I think you had to wait 2 weeks.

aceplace57
10-08-2013, 03:07 PM
I never understood why states would issue a motorcycle license to a 15 year old. The first kids in my high school that drove were on motorcycles. A few had these Cushman three wheel mail carts (http://autotraderclassics.com/images/a/cms/83262/83262.jpg)bought from surplus. They qualified as a motorcycle too. The rest of us spent that school year taking the school bus.

The law may have changed by now. Even a little Honda 70 (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3b/Honda_cd_70.jpg) is dangerous if not driven safely.

Filbert
10-08-2013, 06:09 PM
In the UK, you apply for a provisional licence, which I guess is our equivalent of a learner's permit. No test for this, written or otherwise, and any full licence holder can then give you lessons. On normal roads.


Nitpick: To give a learner lessons in the UK, you need to be over 21, and to have held a licence for at least 3 years.

I had my first lesson, with a professional instructor, on a dead-end basically disused road in the middle of nowhere, after a quick mess around in a car park my parents owned. Professional instruction was standard among my friends.

Musicat
10-08-2013, 06:19 PM
Wow, things sure have changed. I didn't have Driver's Training, never drove a car, tractor, simulator or go-kart, but when I turned 16, I told my mom, "Mom, you can walk home or ride with me, but I'm taking the wheel." She rode.

2 weeks later, I passed my driving test. Not with flying colors, but it was good enough, and that's all she wrote.

rocking chair
10-08-2013, 06:44 PM
How can you learn to drive before you've got a learner's permit? Okay, if you live on a big farm with loads of private roads, but that isn't most people.

In the UK, you apply for a provisional licence, which I guess is our equivalent of a learner's permit. No test for this, written or otherwise, and any full licence holder can then give you lessons. On normal roads.

My first lesson was on roads in the centre of town. No parking lot or field for me. Just straight into traffic, that's how most of us learn here, and we have some of the strictest driving tests in the world.

Good grief, looking at runner pat's link, you can drive at 14 in Arkansas? And need to prove you can drive before this? What age do people start?

No one hits the road in any form before 17 here. I think that's even too young.

arkansas is one of the more rural states. it is a bit scary to find out how young kids are when they start driving tractors on farms. by 14 a farm kid could have been operating motor vehicles for 4-5 years.

also the driving test could have been drive around the courthouse and park. that was the driving test for a small nebraska town in the 1980's. just mind boggling. no parallel parking, just between the lines slant.

Sahirrnee
10-08-2013, 10:57 PM
How do they track what you've put in the log? Couldn't you just make it up?

None of that here. You just take the written test, then the driving test, and you're good to go. Except most people fail.


I could make it up but I won't.
I'm sure some parents do, but they aren't doing their kids or anybody a favor by doing so.

Ruken
10-08-2013, 11:13 PM
If they were cited in a parking lot, do you need a license to drive on private property?





(The fatal crashes are actually going down, but I think that's a factor of safety in the cars, not better drivers.)Better hospital care too, I suspect. Just like how gun homicides are down, but shootings are not.

kittenblue
10-09-2013, 12:13 AM
When my mom learned to drive, she drove into a storefront, too! She had her learner's permit, my dad was with her, they were in a large shopping center parking lot.... Only differences? She was 42 years old, it was 1966, it was Sunday so all the stores were closed and the lot was empty. I don't think she got a ticket, but of course they had to pay for the damage.

Glazer
10-09-2013, 01:29 AM
Dad started teaching me to drive at age 9 in the mall parking lot on Sundays. I'd drive Mom's car an automatic and Dad's pick-up a manual. Even before that he would teach me what to look for. And pointed out stupid things other people did. At 14 once I was big enough Dad started letting me drive his semi around the truck park at work. He had me backing a trailer up to the dock between other trucks. Never bothered with a learners permit. Got my license on my 16th birthday. While 16 I would go on the road with him. At 18 I got my Class A and went to work for him till I went in the Army. Then I got to drive some fun stuff. It's hard to remember a time when I couldn't drive.

sisu
10-09-2013, 02:11 AM
I'd love it if they made it illegal for parents to teach their kids to drive. Have you been on the roads lately? You think parents are *qualified* to teach their kids to drive? I don't. Driving is the most dangerous thing we all do regularly, and the requirements for acquiring these skills seem ridiculously lax to me. 25,580 fatal car crashes in 2012 in the US? (http://statisticbrain.com/car-crash-fatality-statistics-2/) How is this not outraging everyone, every day? (The fatal crashes are actually going down, but I think that's a factor of safety in the cars, not better drivers.)

In Australia we just pass a written exam and then have to log 120 hours of driving with a fully licensed person, this is effectively anyone over about 23. You have to be 17 and 9 months to get your learners.

We have a very low fatality rate and it may come down to not being able to get your license until you are 18, which lines up nicely with our drinking age.

FYI 6.1 per 100,000 compared to USA 10.4 and we are a similar physical size to North America so it's not long distance driving.

To me the insistence on passing a physical driving test is due to effective lobbying from the car school industry.

polar bear
10-09-2013, 03:52 AM
As far as I know, here in the Netherlands, you have to take lessons with an official instructor. You drive in his car, which has an extra set of brakes/gas/clutch on the passenger site (so he can stop you, help you with the clutch when you're starting out). You won't get to drive solo, until you've passed your test... and you can't start lessons until you're 18. Getting a license is kind of an expensive thing.

SanVito
10-09-2013, 04:45 AM
Nitpick: To give a learner lessons in the UK, you need to be over 21, and to have held a licence for at least 3 years.

I had my first lesson, with a professional instructor, on a dead-end basically disused road in the middle of nowhere, after a quick mess around in a car park my parents owned. Professional instruction was standard among my friends.

Yes, was amongst my friends too. Your Dad can teach you, but the test is so picky about driving style, I don't think most parents have the knowledge to get their kids through the test.

I recently went on a speed awareness course (cough, yes, I was caught speeding). Most people in the room had been driving 20+ years, and the instructor made a big point that youngsters are taught a different driving style these days - things like when to change gears - mainly because the design of cars have changed, and us old farts drive in such a way that allows us to slip into marginal speeding (say, 34 in a 30 zone) because we change gears too quickly as we speed up .

SanVito
10-09-2013, 04:50 AM
FYI 6.1 per 100,000 compared to USA 10.4 and we are a similar physical size to North America so it's not long distance driving.

3.7 per 100,000 in the UK :D

To me the insistence on passing a physical driving test is due to effective lobbying from the car school industry.

What nonsense.

Cugel
10-09-2013, 07:00 AM
To me the insistence on passing a physical driving test is due to effective lobbying from the car school industry.

Don't know about that, but my licence acquirement story: I wasn't interested in driving, my licensed teacher (Dad) had little more of a clue than I did, but my first job required it. Twice failed the driving test miserably, so enlisted professional help. Third time passed, I don't recall being any more skilled - it was obvious to me the tester was quite reluctant to pass me, but did anyway.

JBDivmstr
10-09-2013, 08:17 AM
Got my motorcycle license (100cc or less, engine) at 16. Requirements (Texas, in 1976) were to pass a written exam (the same one as for cars) and a driving exam, which consisted of the trooper followed along behind in another vehicle, you had to watch for cues to turn in the rear view mirror.
Other than not following the 'prescribed course' (of which there wasn't, you didn't know where you were going until you got the signal to turn :() and/or violating any traffic laws, the only other thing that would cause you to fail would be 'crashing'.
I failed the first driving test because I turned the wrong way. (Forgot that things are 'reversed' when looking in a mirror.:smack::mad:)
When I turned 18, all I had to do was take the same written exam, again, (no driving test) in order to get a regular license for a car. :cool:
I suspect all of that has changed since then.

PunditLisa
10-09-2013, 10:23 AM
Here in OH, you can get a learner's permit at 15 1/2 years of age. You have to pass a written & vision test to get it. To get a probationary license, they have to complete a Driver's Education class, including 8 hours of in-car instruction. Also, a parent or other adult driver has to spend 50 hours (10 at night) over a 6 month period in the car with the student driver.

It was the longest 50 hours of my life.

BTW, my nephew got pulled over when he had his learner's permit because he ran a stop sign. The police officer let him off with a warning.

lost4life
10-09-2013, 10:38 AM
I learned to drive on a relative's farm. I was driving cars, trucks, multiple tractors, even a bulldozer. I went to take my driving test and I whizzed around like an experienced driver...which of course meant I failed. I forgot that all the minutia was being observed, and looking back I think I was driving with one hand, radio on, probably did not come to fully complete stops...the examiner actually seemed insulted. I took it a week later and passed with flying colors.

Motorcycle test was three figure eights around some cones in the parking lot and done.

I love this clip (http://videobash.com/video_show/bob-s-burgers-604717) from Bob's Burgers.

alphaboi867
10-09-2013, 03:06 PM
...No one hits the road in any form before 17 here. I think that's even too young.

Unless you live in a rural area and need to be able to drive in order to get a part-time job or even participate in extracurricular activity or to and don't have a parent who's schedule let's them play chauffer.

arkansas is one of the more rural states. it is a bit scary to find out how young kids are when they start driving tractors on farms. by 14 a farm kid could have been operating motor vehicles for 4-5 years...

My nephew lives in the country and has a "farmer's licence" and he's only 15. The quotation marks are their because PA doesn't actually have farmer's licences and it's hand written by my brother who also allows him to drive unsupervised. :smack: I'll be highly surprised if that doesn't bite both of them in the ass one of these days.

Rowland
10-09-2013, 03:37 PM
How to say, I know it is not allowed but my father also taught me how to drive, as long as you are not in big traffic and don't harm anyone I don't thing it is the worse crime out there, everything depends where you live.

cmkeller
10-09-2013, 03:49 PM
In New York State, you only need to pass a written test to get a learner's permit. I taught my oldest son the basics of driving in an empty field upstate, and let him do a little driving on straight rural roads in the same upstate area before his taking a formal Driver's Ed course in school. I wouldn't have dreamed of letting a raw permit kid drive in a parking lot where he could have hit other cars.

Kimballkid
10-09-2013, 04:32 PM
Here in South Dakota (and it's not a recent thing, it's been this way since I started driving over 25 years ago):

Graduated Licensing System

As a guardian, your consent is required for all driver license applicants under 18 years old.

To cancel the license or permit of a minor, the Department of Public Safety must receive a written request from the guardian who signed the minor's original application.

Instruction Permit - To obtain an Instruction Permit, you must be at least 14 years of age and pass the vision and knowledge test. The permit is valid for one year. Minors at least 14 years of age, but less than 18 years of age, must hold the valid permit continuously for 180 days (90 days if successful completion of an approved Department of Education driver education course) prior to upgrade of permit to a Restricted Minor's permit or Operator's License. If under 18 years of age and the Instruction Permit expires, a minor would be required to obtain another Instruction Permit for either the 90 or 180 day requirement.

An Instruction Permit holder is entitled to drive during the hours of 6 a.m. to 10 p.m. if the motor vehicle is operated under the direction of a licensed driver 18 years of age or older with at least one year's driving experience. They must be present in the seat next to the person holding the Instruction Permit. During the hours of 10 p.m. to 6 a.m. the permit holder must be accompanied by a parent or guardian who is occupying a seat beside the driver.

Traffic Violations - If the Department receives record of a conviction for a traffic violation or a violation of the restricted permit for a minor under 16 years of age, the driving privileges shall be suspended for a period of thirty days or as otherwise required by law. A second conviction shall result in suspension of the driving privilege until the permit holder's sixteenth birthday, or for 90 days, whichever is longer. Receipt of a conviction for a Class 1 Misdemeanor of Felony will result in a suspension of the license until their 16th birthday or as required by law. If the department receives a conviction for a violation of the restrictions of the license for a minor 16 or 17 years of age, the driving privileges shall be suspended for 30 days for each convictions.

Restricted Minor's Permit - To obtain a Restricted Minor's Permit, you must be at least 14 years of age and pass the vision, knowledge, and driving test, complete the requirements of the Instruction Permit, and have not been convicted of a traffic violation during the past six months prior to obtaining the Restricted Minor's Permit. You must show all documents that were required for the Instruction Permit. An individual up to age 18 years of age may hold a Restricted Minor's Permit. The permit is valid for 5 years.

Restrictions: A Restricted Minor's Permit is issued to a minor 14 to 17 years old allowing them to operate a motor vehicle with parental permission during the hours of 6 a.m. to 10 p.m. and during the hours of 10 p.m. to 6 a.m. if the minor's parent or legal guardian is occupying a seat beside the driver. Upon attaining age 18, permit converts to Operator's License.

Operator's License - To obtain an Operator's License, you must be at least 16 years of age and pass the vision, knowledge, and driving test If a minor is at least 16 years of age, but under 18 years of age, they must complete the requirements of the Instruction Permit and have not been convicted of a traffic violation during the past six months prior to obtaining the Operator's License. The license is valid for 5 years. To renew an Operator's License, you must pass the vision test.

amarinth
10-09-2013, 05:34 PM
Wow, things sure have changed. I didn't have Driver's Training, never drove a car, tractor, simulator or go-kart, but when I turned 16, I told my mom, "Mom, you can walk home or ride with me, but I'm taking the wheel." She rode.If I'd said anything like that to either of my parents at best they would have laughed. More likely, I'd not have been allowed to ride in the car for several months, much less drive it.

We had drivers ed through school, so I learned there & practiced with my parents in an open parking lot, after hours, in the middle of nowhere. And both only happened after I'd gotten my learners permit.

aceplace57
10-09-2013, 05:49 PM
It's funny how our memories change events. Reading this thread made me realize that I'd totally forgotten taking the written test first for my learners permit. Then the driving test a few months later for my license. I'm not sure why my memory merged those events together.

I had actually learned to drive three years earlier on my Uncle's farm. Driving his old pickup and tractor. But I wasn't allowed on the back country roads until I was almost 15 and my uncle was with me in the truck. Getting a license let me start driving to high school my junior year. No more school bus.

TBG
10-10-2013, 04:56 PM
also the driving test could have been drive around the courthouse and park. that was the driving test for a small nebraska town in the 1980's. just mind boggling. no parallel parking, just between the lines slant.

bolding mine

I've been driving for over 20 years, and the only time I've EVER had to parallel park EEEEEEEEEEEEVER was during driver's training. Unless you spend a lot of time in a big downtown type of area, it's just not something you need to do.

Filbert
10-10-2013, 05:24 PM
No one hits the road in any form before 17 here. I think that's even too young.

Actually, I missed this on the previous nitpick, but you can actually get a provisional licence in the UK at 16, if you have certain disabilities affecting mobility. You can get a moped or small motorbike licence at 16 too.

cmkeller
10-10-2013, 05:51 PM
but you can actually get a provisional licence in the UK at 16, if you have certain disabilities affecting mobility.

For example, if you're a Scottish quadriplegic girl?

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