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Grrr!
01-27-2014, 06:16 PM
A website charged $20 on my credit card. I called the website to ask them what the deal was. They told me I "joined"* their services. I told them I did not. The guy on the phone then asks me for my info, and he warns me as I'm doing this that he was going to get the police involved. (As if that was supposed to scare me) I told him please do.

He then get all indignant with me and says "Okay fine! I've refunded the money to your account." When I asked him why was my account was charged in the first place he told me he doesn't have to talk to me and abruptly hangs up on me.

I wont know for a couple of days if he actually refunded my money, but even if he did, I still want to report these bastards. That's bull shit.

gotpasswords
01-27-2014, 06:32 PM
How did they get your bank or credit card info in the first place?

even sven
01-27-2014, 06:52 PM
Call your bank. They will reverse any charges and get their fraud people on it.

Grrr!
01-27-2014, 06:53 PM
I meant to explain this in the OP. I did join their website which requires a CC but that part is free, they are not supposed to charge you unless you use their services. That's why I thought it was dubious when the guy on the phone told me I "joined" their website.


I went on to explain to him "joining" was for free. I'm not supposed to be charged unless I used their service. Which I never did. That's when he got all pissy with me.


I didn't want to go into this in my OP but the site I'm referring to is Porn Hub Live. (Yeah, I know.) I only joined (over a freaking year ago) out of curiosity. I never used their services and I haven't even been back to that site for more than a year. :o

Joey P
01-27-2014, 06:55 PM
I have a feeling we're missing some details, like how you got involved with this website to begin with. If it was just a random charge on your CC, you should have called the CC and disputed it. If it truly is fraudulent, I would do that anyways.

However, if this is a website you have some involvment with or that you typed in your CC with, I'd re-read anything you 'signed'. I mean, no, the police aren't going to show up at your door, but it might be harder to get it reversed (via your CC company) if they are able to show you gave them permission.

Joey P
01-27-2014, 06:56 PM
C'mon people....Redtube. It's free, no CC required.

Also, I had a feeling it was going to be about that, I didn't want to guess at it and be the jerk when I was wrong.

Dewey Finn
01-27-2014, 06:59 PM
Who would you report them to that would care about twenty bucks (that you didn't even lose, as they reversed the charge)?

Grrr!
01-27-2014, 07:00 PM
C'mon people....Redtube. It's free, no CC required.

Also, I had a feeling it was going to be about that, I didn't want to guess at it and be the jerk when I was wrong.

The porn hub live is free too unless you actually want to talk to one of the webcam girls. Which I never did, I just wanted to check the site out. I felt safe doing it because porn hub is like one of the biggest sites out there. I wouldn't think a website that big would do something like that.

Grrr!
01-27-2014, 07:03 PM
Who would you report them to that would care about twenty bucks (that you didn't even lose, as they reversed the charge)?

Well, they only refunded me because I called them on their bull shit. But what about all those people that are too embarrassed to do anything about it? Or all the folks who simply didn't know they were being charged?

It seems like the FBI or somebody might be interested in a scam like that.

Senegoid
01-27-2014, 07:15 PM
So, resolved: Porn IS getting mean (http://boards.academicpursuits.us/sdmb/showthread.php?t=713986) after all!

Joey P
01-27-2014, 07:15 PM
You could go dump all over their Twitter page about what happened.

Spiderman
01-27-2014, 07:22 PM
I only joined (over a freaking year ago) out of curiosity. I never used their services and I haven't even been back to that site for more than a year. :o

LinkedIn keeps trying to sign me up for a free month of their premium service. However, I need to give them a credit card. To me this means that they are going to charge me the next period unless I proactively go onto their site & cxl. My guess is that you were at your one year anniversary & the T&C allowed them to charge you for the second year.

Canadjun
01-27-2014, 07:55 PM
You weren't concerned about providing your credit card number for a "free" service? Yes, you understood that you wouldn't be charged if you didn't use their services, but why then would they ask (they could always ask the first time you tried their services)? Did you read every line of their Terms Of Service (not just any flashy banners on their intro pages)?

What I am getting at is I bet there are some weasel words somewhere in there that let them do what they did. The fact that you got them to cooperate may just be because it would cost them more than $20 in money and effort to challenge you if you disputed the charge (and make it easier for them to really get nasty if you tried to do anything further).

Grrr!
01-27-2014, 08:09 PM
You weren't concerned about providing your credit card number for a "free" service? Yes, you understood that you wouldn't be charged if you didn't use their services, but why then would they ask (they could always ask the first time you tried their services)? Did you read every line of their Terms Of Service (not just any flashy banners on their intro pages)?

What I am getting at is I bet there are some weasel words somewhere in there that let them do what they did. The fact that you got them to cooperate may just be because it would cost them more than $20 in money and effort to challenge you if you disputed the charge (and make it easier for them to really get nasty if you tried to do anything further).

No. I did my homework it's definitely no charge ever. And not only that, I asked the guy to explain to me why I was charged. Instead of giving me an answer, he got all pissy with me. It seems to me, if this were a legitimate charge, he would have told me so.

I also tried calling a second time hoping to get more answers. But that person too was also rude to me and refused to tell me anything.

Dag Otto
01-27-2014, 11:27 PM
Maybe the porn is free but the customer service costs $20.

handsomeharry
01-28-2014, 01:36 AM
You weren't concerned about providing your credit card number for a "free" service? Yes, you understood that you wouldn't be charged if you didn't use their services, but why then would they ask (they could always ask the first time you tried their services)? Did you read every line of their Terms Of Service (not just any flashy banners on their intro pages)?

What I am getting at is I bet there are some weasel words somewhere in there that let them do what they did. The fact that you got them to cooperate may just be because it would cost them more than $20 in money and effort to challenge you if you disputed the charge (and make it easier for them to really get nasty if you tried to do anything further).

I don't have to read the agreement. The only reason that you can join for free, and then supply a CC number is because there is a statement saying that if you don't cancel your membership within 30 days, you are subscribing at a rate of $20 on up per month to keep your membership.

Weasel words are not needed. Neither is fine print. It is right there, but, whoever reads these things?
This kind of agreement has been common practice since the first 'free membership' appeared on the web.
Why else on earth would a company want your credit card unless they were planning on charging it???

You have learned a valuable lesson.

Grrr!
01-28-2014, 01:46 AM
I don't have to read the agreement. The only reason that you can join for free, and then supply a CC number is because there is a statement saying that if you don't cancel your membership within 30 days, you are subscribing at a rate of $20 on up per month to keep your membership.

Weasel words are not needed. This has been common practice since the first charge for 'free membership' first appeared on the web.
Why else on earth would a company want your credit card unless they were planning on charging it???

You have learned a valuable lesson.


That's true with regular porn sites. But this is a webcam site. The deal is, if you want to browse their site, you first have to give them a CC number, with the promise it will be free unless you want a private "one on one" with one of the girls. Once you go into a session with a webcam girl, they start charging you by the minute. NOT by the month.


Again, I haven't interacted with this site for over a year. So the theory that they gave me a free month and now are charging me is incorrect.

PlainJain
01-28-2014, 01:52 AM
No. I did my homework it's definitely no charge ever...
Hey, sorry to change the subject but I have a great deal on some land in Florida. PM me.

Grrr!
01-28-2014, 02:04 AM
Hey, sorry to change the subject but I have a great deal on some land in Florida. PM me.

Your snark makes no sense in this context.

Alba
01-28-2014, 03:24 AM
I would report them. Maybe this does happen more often. And the way they responded on the phone is also telling, IMO. If the computer authorities say no, you've lost nothing.


Chaturbate.com, Myfreecams.com free viewing of webcams. Not that I use those;)

madrabbitwoman
01-28-2014, 06:30 AM
On a non porny note - I had a trial membership with a mob called efax.com. 30 day free trial no questions asked if I wanted to leave within the 30 days. Took 3 goes to get the first fax sent and I decided I wasn't interested. This was November. After multiple emails - which near as I can tell were not read (they would email asking for my name, phone and efax #, I would reply with what was asked and then get a reply asking for info again - mind you the stuff I sent was right below the reply), then finally told to call my country's customer service #, guess which country doesn't have one, more emails, messages left on chat (because there was never anyone manning the chat) I finally, last week got my account cancelled. So the bastards, the lying fecking bastards got two months worth of money out of me. No more "free" trials for me I think,

Isilder
01-28-2014, 06:34 AM
. So the bastards, the lying fecking bastards got two months worth of money out of me. No more "free" trials for me I think,

Complain to your bank.
The credit card charge can be reversed.
The bank will see its a trial system and ask for proof that the service was used, for example.

Vinyl Turnip
01-28-2014, 07:49 AM
Your snark makes no sense in this context.

Nah, I did my homework. She's legit.

ftg
01-28-2014, 09:33 AM
We had this problem with one of our kids and the kid's Capital One (first credit card). Scummy charges kept popping up. Nightmare to get them removed. The interesting thing was that the street address of these jerks was on the same block as Capital One's address!

So we canceled the card. They kept "restoring it" and the charges kept coming back. Took months to clean that up. Then Capital One started hitting the kids credit report with dozens of credit checks (which are bad for ones credit rating).

What a horrible company.

Yorikke
01-28-2014, 10:25 AM
Well, they only refunded me because I called them on their bull shit. But what about all those people that are too embarrassed to do anything about it? Or all the folks who simply didn't know they were being charged?


Oh well, maybe they should learn to be such an astute internetter as yourself before paying for a stroke site.

Czarcasm
01-28-2014, 10:37 AM
A website charged $20 on my credit card. I called the website to ask them what the deal was. They told me I "joined"* their services. I told them I did not. The guy on the phone then asks me for my info, and he warns me as I'm doing this that he was going to get the police involved. (As if that was supposed to scare me) I told him please do.

He then get all indignant with me and says "Okay fine! I've refunded the money to your account." When I asked him why was my account was charged in the first place he told me he doesn't have to talk to me and abruptly hangs up on me.

I wont know for a couple of days if he actually refunded my money, but even if he did, I still want to report these bastards. That's bull shit.You gave your credit card number to a porn site, and expected them to just sit on it. Right. :rolleyes: Pray tell, to whom would you have reported this transgression, and what do you think the result would have been?

Inner Stickler
01-28-2014, 10:42 AM
I would suggest, in the future, to buy a credit gift card with 25 or 50 dollars on it so that if you feel the need to join another such site, and they engage in underhanded practices, they're immediately limited in the financial damage they can do.

Czarcasm
01-28-2014, 10:47 AM
I would suggest, in the future, to buy a credit gift card with 25 or 50 dollars on it so that if you feel the need to join another such site, and they engage in underhanded practices, they're immediately limited in the financial damage they can do.They won't accept a gift card with such a limit on it-they're in the porn business, not the idiot business.

PlainJain
01-28-2014, 11:01 AM
They won't accept a gift card with such a limit on it-they're in the porn business, not the idiot business.
Still, they do seem to attract their fair share...

Dewey Finn
01-28-2014, 11:04 AM
Is there some way that a merchant knows when presented a credit card number that it's a credit gift card and not a conventional credit card? Is there a difference in the account number that's well known?

Giraffe
01-28-2014, 11:11 AM
You could go dump all over their Twitter page about what happened.

That's definitely going to cost extra. :eek:

Joey P
01-28-2014, 11:37 AM
That's definitely going to cost extra. :eek:

Only if you're gonna be pissy about it.

Yorikke
01-28-2014, 12:12 PM
That's definitely going to cost extra. :eek:

Pittsburgh Platter is an extra hundie.

Learjeff
01-28-2014, 12:25 PM
We got hit something like this, long ago. My wife noticed a recurring small charge (say $10/mo) with an innocuous but confusing description. We looked into it and turns out it's a porn site. I know I didn't sign up, and I believed her that she didn't.

Turns out it was our teenage son. He said that it was supposed to be a free trial, and the CC was to prove adult status. (That's laughable, but it actually does provide legal cover for the site.) The site was actually quite cooperative in refunding us for one year, but the charges actually went back a bit further. So, it was an expensive little lesson for our son, and a clue to my wife. Plus my son got kudos for fessing up right away.

BigT
01-28-2014, 02:28 PM
the CC was to prove adult status. (That's laughable, but it actually does provide legal cover for the site.)

I've seen that before, too. I've even seen ones where they'll charge you two random amounts less than a dollar and then refund them, and you have to type in those numbers for authentication.

I don't find the OP's situation to be all that implausible.

Grrr!
01-28-2014, 04:02 PM
You gave your credit card number to a porn site, and expected them to just sit on it. Right. :rolleyes: Pray tell, to whom would you have reported this transgression, and what do you think the result would have been?

Well gee, I'm not sure, maybe that's why I started this thread. I'm really not getting where all the snark and condescension is coming from in this thread.

Are you trying to assert your moral superiority? Or is it that people who visit such sites deserve to be scammed?

Personally, I find it troublesome that a large company is committing fraud going completely unchecked. Yeah, I got my money back today, but still, that should let them off the hook.

Vinyl Turnip
01-28-2014, 05:03 PM
I don't find the OP's situation to be all that implausible.

How much did they put on your mom's card?

Jackmannii
01-28-2014, 05:53 PM
The porn hub live is free too unless you actually want to talk to one of the webcam girls. Which I never did, I just wanted to check the site out. I felt safe doing it because porn hub is like one of the biggest sites out there. I wouldn't think a website that big would do something like that.If you can't trust a porn website, who can you trust? :(

Hari Seldon
01-28-2014, 10:04 PM
I once ordered an external hard drive from a company called TigerDirect. So of course I had given them my credit card number. The following month I was billed for something like $20 without explanation. When I called to complain they claimed I had joined some club they run. But they immediately canceled the membership and refunded the money. I will not buy from them again.

PlainJain
01-28-2014, 10:59 PM
Your snark makes no sense in this context.
Maybe you don't understand the context.

Well gee, I'm not sure, maybe that's why I started this thread. I'm really not getting where all the snark and condescension is coming from in this thread.

Are you trying to assert your moral superiority? Or is it that people who visit such sites deserve to be scammed?

Personally, I find it troublesome that a large company is committing fraud going completely unchecked. Yeah, I got my money back today, but still, that should let them off the hook.
It has nothing to do with the site and everything to do with falling for such a commonplace scam. And sorry, but your "too big to commit fraud" reasoning makes me understand why you got snookered in the first place. For your perusal, here's a few entities that you might think were too big to commit fraud, Fannie Mae, HealthSouth, Tyco International, Lehman Brothers, Bernard Madoff, Enron.

Grrr!
01-28-2014, 11:07 PM
Maybe you don't understand the context.


It has nothing to do with the site and everything to do with falling for such a commonplace scam. .

What common place scam? If you're referring to the old "we'll give'em a month free and then hope they forget to cancel their membership next month so we can charge'em $20" scam, that's clearly not what happened.

Please, do try reading for comprehension.

Boogly
01-28-2014, 11:16 PM
Well gee, I'm not sure, maybe that's why I started this thread. I'm really not getting where all the snark and condescension is coming from in this thread.

Are you trying to assert your moral superiority? Or is it that people who visit such sites deserve to be scammed?

Personally, I find it troublesome that a large company is committing fraud going completely unchecked. Yeah, I got my money back today, but still, that should let them off the hook.

For the future;
Don't trust the internet
Don't trust porn sites.
Really don't trust a combo of the two.

Snark; What the hell did you expect? There is a reason that porn has a reputation of putting. cooties on peoples computers...

Snark-ier:
I lmao at the topic/user name combo.
Thank you for that at least...

ETA: Better Business Bureau. Report/rate the business..

Grrr!
01-28-2014, 11:22 PM
For the future;
Don't trust the internet
Don't trust porn sites.
Really don't trust a combo of the two.

Snark; What the hell did you expect? There is a reason that porn has a reputation of putting. cooties on peoples computers...

Snark-ier:
I lmao at the topic/user name combo.
Thank you for that at least...

Well, I've been trusting the internets for 15 years and this is the closest I've ever come to being scammed. An instance, I might add, that I got my money back.

And you're welcome.

Ambivalid
01-29-2014, 12:10 AM
Don't trust the internet
Don't trust porn sites.
Really don't trust a combo of the two.

How could one not trust the internet, yet trust a particular website within it?

Zebra
01-29-2014, 12:15 AM
They are counting on you being too embarrassed to go to your bank and say "Hey, I went to this porn site and they ripped me off!"

Czarcasm
01-29-2014, 12:34 AM
ETA: Better Business Bureau. Report/rate the business..1. Does the BBB rate online porno sites?
2. Would an online porno site give a shit if they did?

Fuzzy Dunlop
01-29-2014, 07:36 AM
1. Does the BBB rate online porno sites?
2. Would an online porno site give a shit if they did?

I would never encourage anybody to spend a second on the BBB for any business. It's basically a pay to play scam.

You can be the best business in the world but if you don't give them a bunch of confidential data and pay a registration fee they list you as a grade C, so it's a scam for the business.

They have absolutely no ability to influence businesses, so it's a scam for consumers too.

Czarcasm
01-29-2014, 08:52 AM
What state is this business registered in? Hell, in what country is this business registered in?

PlainJain
01-29-2014, 11:22 AM
What common place scam? If you're referring to the old "we'll give'em a month free and then hope they forget to cancel their membership next month so we can charge'em $20" scam, that's clearly not what happened.

Please, do try reading for comprehension.
You misrepresent my position just so you can appear to be a smarty-pants and trot out the old "try reading for comprehension" bit? Ha ha, fail.

No, the scam I was talking about is promising not to charge your credit card yet burying the fine print where they explain they actually will.

Serious question, why do you think they asked for your info if they weren't going to use it?

Grrr!
01-29-2014, 02:46 PM
You misrepresent my position just so you can appear to be a smarty-pants and trot out the old "try reading for comprehension" bit? Ha ha, fail.

No, the scam I was talking about is promising not to charge your credit card yet burying the fine print where they explain they actually will.

Serious question, why do you think they asked for your info if they weren't going to use it?

I tell you what PlainJain, the site I'm referring to is Porn Hub live. Go over the fine print yourself and if you can show me where it says what you claim it says, I'll buy you a years membership to this board.

nevadaexile
01-29-2014, 02:46 PM
Well, they only refunded me because I called them on their bull shit. But what about all those people that are too embarrassed to do anything about it? Or all the folks who simply didn't know they were being charged?

It seems like the FBI or somebody might be interested in a scam like that.

The Secret Service handles US credit card fraud cases.
And be prepared to wait in line as they have thousands of open cases going at any one time.

Lesson learned: NEVER give out your credit card unless it's a trusted site and you are planning on purchasing something,

Czarcasm
01-29-2014, 02:55 PM
I tell you what PlainJain, the site I'm referring to is Porn Hub live. Go over the fine print yourself and if you can show me where it says what you claim it says, I'll buy you a years membership to this board.Is there any place on that site that shows where they are physically established?

Canadjun
01-29-2014, 04:06 PM
I tell you what PlainJain, the site I'm referring to is Porn Hub live. Go over the fine print yourself and if you can show me where it says what you claim it says, I'll buy you a years membership to this board.

You mean where it says in the Terms and Conditions
9. FEES

You acknowledge that Pornhub reserves the right to charge for Pornhub services and to change its fees from time to time in its discretion. Further more, in the event Pornhub terminates your rights to use the website because of a breach of this Agreement, you shall not be entitled to the refund of any unused portion of subscription fees.
?

And I didn't even have to explore the site very much to find that (although it looks "interesting":eek:)

Senegoid
01-29-2014, 04:26 PM
You mean where it says in the Terms and Conditions

{ seemingly relevant snippet of that site's T&C quoted here }



Ding! Ding! Ding! You win a year's membership on this board, compliments of Shakes!

(One might have hoped instead for a year's membership at Pr0n Hub.) :o

Death of Rats
01-29-2014, 04:33 PM
You mean where it says in the Terms and Conditions

?

And I didn't even have to explore the site very much to find that (although it looks "interesting":eek:)

Except that Shakes didn't use their services and he explained the the thread what those services are (ie. going into a one-on-one webcam/chat). Nothing in that statement gives them permission to charge the credit card for nothing nor does it express that there will be an ongoing fee charged. It says that you understand that when you go into a pay area you will be charged for it.

Canadjun
01-29-2014, 04:41 PM
Except that Shakes didn't use their services and he explained the the thread what those services are (ie. going into a one-on-one webcam/chat). Nothing in that statement gives them permission to charge the credit card for nothing nor does it express that there will be an ongoing fee charged. It says that you understand that when you go into a pay area you will be charged for it.

That's his definition of services. Nothing stopping them from determining that their services include viewing the "interesting" pictures and action. The fact that some of their services are/were free does not compel them to always make them free.

Grrr!
01-29-2014, 04:45 PM
You mean where it says in the Terms and Conditions

?

And I didn't even have to explore the site very much to find that (although it looks "interesting":eek:)

That statement said it reserves the right. It doesn't mean they actually WILL. Which is exactly what Plainjane claims is buried deep with in the legalese. And besides, I posted this thread a couple of days ago. Their price is still listed as free.

Sparky the Wonder Spirit
01-29-2014, 04:45 PM
I don't know what I think is more hilarious:

a) giving people your credit card number unless you actively wish to pay for something

b) paying for porn in a world where we have the internet.

Canadjun
01-29-2014, 04:51 PM
That statement said it reserves the right. It doesn't mean they actually WILL. Which is exactly what Plainjane claims is buried deep with in the legalese. And besides, I posted this thread a couple of days ago. Their price is still listed as free.

But it does mean that they CAN. And I wouldn't call it buried very deeply.

Grrr!
01-29-2014, 04:55 PM
But it does mean that they CAN. And I wouldn't call it buried very deeply.

Sure they CAN. Any business has the right to change its prices. How is that relevant to the conversation? You may have a point if they actually did change their prices, but they didn't.

StusBlues
01-29-2014, 05:21 PM
The porn hub live is free too unless you actually want to talk to one of the webcam girls. Which I never did, I just wanted to check the site out. I felt safe doing it because porn hub is like one of the biggest sites out there. I wouldn't think a website that big would do something like that.

Heavens, no! Pornographers are the most purehearted benevolent souls in the whole of creation.

PlainJain
01-29-2014, 06:42 PM
Sure they CAN. Any business has the right to change its prices. How is that relevant to the conversation? You may have a point if they actually did change their prices, but they didn't.
Hey!, the goalpost would look good here... no, wait, how about here!... no.... maybe over there...

Someone beat me to it, still if you you had a shred a integrity you'd cough up a membership for me. Better yet, just send me your credit card info. I promise not to charge my SDMB membership on it (no, really, do your homework!).

I'll do you a favor, for your future porn browsing needs check out Tumblr or Xhamster. No need for a CC.

Your welcome.

Grrr!
01-29-2014, 07:03 PM
Hey!, the goalpost would look good here... no, wait, how about here!... no.... maybe over there...

Someone beat me to it, still if you you had a shred a integrity you'd cough up a membership for me. Better yet, just send me your credit card info. I promise not to charge my SDMB membership on it (no, really, do your homework!).

I'll do you a favor, for your future porn browsing needs check out Tumblr or Xhamster. No need for a CC.

Your welcome.

I didn't move the goal posts. That's only your perception of it. I explained why this is so earlier. If you fail to grasp the difference, then I don't know what to tell you.

Penfeather
01-29-2014, 08:12 PM
Which is exactly what Plainjane claims is buried deep with in the legalese.

You acknowledge that Pornhub reserves the right to charge for Pornhub services and to change its fees from time to time in its discretion.

Curse their double-dealing mumbo-jumbo, telling you plainly like that with all their fancy lawyer talk!

Grrr!
01-29-2014, 08:28 PM
Curse their double-dealing mumbo-jumbo, telling you plainly like that with all their fancy lawyer talk!

As has been explained before, they didn't change their prices. Go to the website right now, it still says membership is free.

GrandWino
01-29-2014, 08:47 PM
Here are the terms and conditions for Porn Hub Live (the t&c pointed out above was for regular PornHub). Link broken behind spoiler (no porn on page, but porn in link title):

http: //pornhublive.cams.pm/go/page/terms_of_use.html?&who=r,A3a1fmKSBm57Me9LFvaDz8DuFhlJwyKg8keMx82Ov2iW1XLht8/aZqqxKRKpSTptlH3E5WigFOD7mrfx8G1s6i6rdNJZzJzOTWAOX0_A7gki0viSgB6E05VXdS4Ixwt67j9VClIQxyRTyJ2lBnHjW3V zrzmGcufSsFQJHsGm9Ds-&dcb=pornhublive.cams.pm


Section 14 seems the most relevant. Bolding is mine, though not the upper case letters. They did that... you know, to make it super clear to people like Shakes that they're going to eventually charge you at some point.

Subscription, Usage and Foreign Transaction Fees; Promotional Credits.
(a) Subscription Fees. Certain Services are subject to subscription fees ("Subscription Fees"). These Subscription Fees are provided to you upon registration and may change from time to time. Unless otherwise indicated, Subscriptions Fees cover an initial period, for which there is a one time charge, followed by recurring periodic charges for subsequent periods as agreed to by you upon registration. You acknowledge that your subscription has an initial and recurring payment feature and you accept responsibility for all recurring charges prior to cancellation. WE MAY SUBMIT PERIODIC CHARGES (E.G., MONTHLY) WITHOUT FURTHER AUTHORIZATION FROM YOU, UNTIL YOU PROVIDE PRIOR NOTICE (CONFIRMED IN WRITING AT OUR REQUEST) THAT YOU HAVE TERMINATED THIS AUTHORIZATION OR WISH TO CHANGE YOUR PAYMENT METHOD. SUCH NOTICE WILL NOT AFFECT CHARGES APPLIED BEFORE WE CAN REASONABLY ACT. TO TERMINATE YOUR AUTHORIZATION OR CHANGE YOUR PAYMENT METHOD FOR SUBSCRIPTIONS, GO TO THE BILLING HISTORY PAGE.

(b) Other Fees. Certain other Services may require you to make one-time payments or prepay certain amounts for credits, tokens, digital items or goods which may be redeemed solely for specified Services ("Credits"). Credits, as well as unused balances as described in Section 14(c), may not be redeemed for cash and may not be returned or forfeited for a cash refund, except as may be required by applicable law. In addition, Credits and unused balances are not transferable.

(c) Usage Fees. Certain Services may require a sufficient balance of funds in your Account against which usage or similar fees (e.g., pay per minute or pay per view) may be charged. If you have not logged into your Account in the previous 180 days, we reserve the right, in our sole discretion, and without notice or liability to you, to charge you in the following month(s) an Account maintenance fee equal to $5 per month or, if less than $5 remains in your Account, the remaining funds. The Account maintenance fee will only be deducted from the funds remaining in your Account. Your credit card(s) on file with us will not be charged, and you will not incur a negative balance, due to any such Account maintenance fee.

(d) Foreign Transaction Fees. We may use credit card processors or banks outside the United States to process your transactions. In some instances, your bank or credit card issuer may charge you a foreign transaction or similar fee or charge. Before purchasing any Services, please check with your bank or credit card issuer for more information about its policies regarding foreign transaction and similar fees and charges.

(e) Promotional Credits. You expressly acknowledge that any promotion that provides points, pre-recorded shows, or similar credits or benefits (collectively, "Promotional Credits") may be terminated by us in our sole discretion at any time. If you have not logged into your account in the previous 180 days or if your membership is terminated for any reason, your Promotional Credits, if any, will expire and be forfeited. Promotional Credits have no cash value and may not be redeemed for cash, converted for other Services and/or transferred to third-parties.




I'd like to donate the yearly subscription you owe me to PlainJane please.

GrandWino
01-29-2014, 08:50 PM
Their main sign-up page says "Join Now! It's totally FREE! No credit card needed".

However, that's not a lie and doesn't contradict what happened here. It's totally free to sign up. It is. It's just if you want to enjoy any of the benefits of watching ladies take their clothes off on camera you'll end up having to pay.

Grrr!
01-29-2014, 09:27 PM
You misrepresent my position just so you can appear to be a smarty-pants and trot out the old "try reading for comprehension" bit? Ha ha, fail.

No, the scam I was talking about is promising not to charge your credit card yet burying the fine print where they explain they actually will.

Serious question, why do you think they asked for your info if they weren't going to use it?

Here are the terms and conditions for Porn Hub Live (the t&c pointed out above was for regular PornHub). Link broken behind spoiler (no porn on page, but porn in link title):

http: //pornhublive.cams.pm/go/page/terms_of_use.html?&who=r,A3a1fmKSBm57Me9LFvaDz8DuFhlJwyKg8keMx82Ov2iW1XLht8/aZqqxKRKpSTptlH3E5WigFOD7mrfx8G1s6i6rdNJZzJzOTWAOX0_A7gki0viSgB6E05VXdS4Ixwt67j9VClIQxyRTyJ2lBnHjW3V zrzmGcufSsFQJHsGm9Ds-&dcb=pornhublive.cams.pm


Section 14 seems the most relevant. Bolding is mine, though not the upper case letters. They did that... you know, to make it super clear to people like Shakes that they're going to eventually charge you at some point.






I'd like to donate the yearly subscription you owe me to PlainJane please.

If you want to debate the actual meaning of the above legalese then that's fine. But Jane's exact words were "they actually will". That's a big difference between "We reserve the right." or "we may change". I was never notified of a price increase. Show me in the terms of service where it actually says that they actually will charge me, and I will happily pay for her subscription.

When I called the guy on the phone and asked why am I being charged, he wouldn't tell me, and he begrudgingly refunded my money. Why would he do that if he were perfectly with in his rights to keep said money?

Penfeather
01-29-2014, 09:34 PM
As has been explained before, they didn't change their prices. Go to the website right now, it still says membership is free.

Why do you suppose they wanted your credit card number, they were stuck on Sudoku?

PlainJain
01-29-2014, 11:09 PM
If you want to debate the actual meaning of the above legalese then that's fine. But Jane's exact words were "they actually will". That's a big difference between "We reserve the right." or "we may change". I was never notified of a price increase. Show me in the terms of service where it actually says that they actually will charge me, and I will happily pay for her subscription.
Now you are just being silly with your posts. The issue being raised is, is it reasonable to expect a porn site not to charge you if you give then your CC number. Semantic finagling aside, the answer is no.

You asked to be shown in the websites own terms that they could charge you. Bob did that. Man up about it already.

Further, your justification for your beliefs is that big companies surely wouldn't pull something like that. "I felt safe doing it because porn hub is like one of the biggest sites out there. I wouldn't think a website that big would do something like that." You were shown that was wrong as well.

This is just me but when I find myself in a hole... well, you know.

And it's Jain - not Jane. ;)

Grrr!
01-29-2014, 11:25 PM
Now you are just being silly with your posts. The issue being raised is, is it reasonable to expect a porn site not to charge you if you give then your CC number. Semantic finagling aside, the answer is no.

You asked to be shown in the websites own terms that they could charge you. Bob did that. Man up about it already.

Further, your justification for your beliefs is that big companies surely wouldn't pull something like that. "I felt safe doing it because porn hub is like one of the biggest sites out there. I wouldn't think a website that big would do something like that." You were shown that was wrong as well.

This is just me but when I find myself in a hole... well, you know.

And it's Jain - not Jane. ;)

From their website:

Signing up is absolutely free, you will NOT be charged for your membership. We will only verify that your credit card is valid. You will NEVER be charged, unless you are entering any clearly marked paid area of the site.

Seems pretty straight forward to me....

Guinastasia
01-29-2014, 11:59 PM
Where did it say that? Besides, you told us you read all the fine print, but it was pointed out that you obviously didn't.

Grrr!
01-30-2014, 12:25 AM
Where did it say that? Besides, you told us you read all the fine print, but it was pointed out that you obviously didn't.

Well, if you go to the website and click "Join" it's right there.


Here's the thing, if you put something in writing, that's considered legally binding. It doesn't matter if it was under the "terms of service" clause. So what we have here are two statements that are totally incongruent. Now, imagine if we were to fight this in a court of law. Which way do you think the court will lean? Temper your answer with the fact that the guy on the phone refunded my money. He did this with out trying to argue why he has the right to charge me, and he also refunded me with out hesitation.

Again, why would he refund me if he thought he had the legal right to keep my money?

It seems to me if they went through the trouble of using all this tricky wording in order to garner extra revenue, at the very least, they would try to argue "Hey! it's right there in the contract! We're allowed to charge membership fees whenever we want."


ETA: And I was aware of the fine print. That's pretty standard for any business.

PlainJain
01-30-2014, 12:35 AM
From their website:
Signing up is absolutely free, you will NOT be charged for your membership. We will only verify that your credit card is valid. You will NEVER be charged, unless you are entering any clearly marked paid area of the site.
Seems pretty straight forward to me....
Wait, are you saying that scammers lie!?

Seriously, they are counting on people like you to think it seems pretty straightforward.

Czarcasm
01-30-2014, 12:48 AM
Your porn site is owned by naiaddev.com (http://hostcabi.net/domain/naiaddev.com), based in Seattle. They don't seem to have a good reputation when it comes to customer relations (http://webutations.net/go/review/naiaddev.com), but they do seem to be virus-free. Statshow (http://statshow.com/www/naiaddev.com#website_reputation) says
Trustworthiness: 5 (Very Poor)
Vendor Reliability: 5 (Very Poor)
Privacy: 5 (Very Poor)
Child Safety: 2 (Very Poor)

Grrr!
01-30-2014, 12:49 AM
Wait, are you saying that scammers lie!?

Seriously, they are counting on people like you to think it seems pretty straightforward.

No, what I'm saying is what they put in writing is legally binding.

And counting on people like me who got a full refund? :dubious: Please, do tell me how "people like me" drives their business model. It doesn't sound too profitable to me.

clairobscur
01-30-2014, 03:25 AM
I strongly suspect that you used a service that you assumed was free but in fact was paying. This being made deliberatly unclear by the website

For instance, since we're talking about cam girls, you could have assumed that only watching the girls'show was a paying service, while in fact merely looking up their profile, or watching some sample video was a paying service, this being mentioned in fine print when you acceded the profiles/samples/whatever.


No need to mention that this is purely a guess and not in any way related to any kind of similar experience I could have had in the past. ;)

lost4life
01-30-2014, 09:35 AM
Ding! Ding! Ding! You win a year's membership on this board, compliments of Shakes!


Now all he has to do is give the SD his credit card number. What's the worst that can happen!

GrandWino
01-30-2014, 10:15 AM
From their website:

Signing up is absolutely free, you will NOT be charged for your membership. We will only verify that your credit card is valid. You will NEVER be charged, unless you are entering any clearly marked paid area of the site.

Seems pretty straight forward to me....

Ok, it's looking like Shakes is just full of shit at this point and trying madly to save some face in this thread, which he probably wishes he could take back.

I'm on the join page right now and there's nothing even close to what he quoted posted there. It's asking for a username and email address, at which point they'll send me a password.

In the name of science, I went ahead and gave them a username and throwaway email address to move on to the next step. Want to play along? Links are all to imgur pages where I've posted screencaps. I've blocked out my personal information as well as any pictures that you might not want popping up at work.

After I gave the site my username and email address, it took me to this page (http://i.imgur.com/5M0jEeS.jpg) where it gives me the steps on validating my email address. No mention of credit cards whatsoever.

Here is the email they sent me with my password (http://i.imgur.com/zHxGRiu.jpg). Once again, seems are pretty straightforward and no mention of needing a credit card.

Ok, so I'm sure once I enter in the password they gave me I'll end up on a screen that Shakes is talking about, where they promise to never ever charge my credit card, scout's honor.

Oh wait, this is the next page once I enter my password (http://i.imgur.com/0Pjykky.jpg). They are in fact asking me for my credit card. Those bastards! I bet that fine print is on this page telling me not to worry, that they'll never charge me.

Oh wait, nope. In fact, just the opposite in fact. It asks me straight up to fund my account w/ my credit card in order to chat privately with their models, along with some other perks for paid members. The only fine print I can find on this page is where it tells me that charges will appear as STREAMRAY . COM.

Since I don't want this porno site to have my credit card number, because THEY WILL CHARGE ME, I closed out of this screen without giving them any info. I've now signed up for a free account but didn't give them a credit card and wasn't required to do so at any step (unless I wanted to get into the good stuff on their site).


Shakes, please show me on these screencaps where the text you quoted is to be found. Maybe I'm just missing it.

ETA: When you enter your emailed password on the page shown on the first screencap there, you're telling them that you read the Terms and Conditions, which include lots of info on how they're going to eventually charge your credit card. Given that you didn't even read the T&C, how can you be pissed off at them at this point.

And of course they gave you a refund. It's $20 and it's easier to refund that sort of thing than turn it into a big fight. It's the same way at McDonald's.

Grrr!
01-30-2014, 10:42 AM
Shakes, please show me on these screencaps where the text you quoted is to be found. Maybe I'm just missing it.

ETA: When you enter your emailed password on the page shown on the first screencap there, you're telling them that you read the Terms and Conditions, which include lots of info on how they're going to eventually charge your credit card. Given that you didn't even read the T&C, how can you be pissed off at them at this point.

And of course they gave you a refund. It's $20 and it's easier to refund that sort of thing than turn it into a big fight. It's the same way at McDonald's.

You're missing it. Go to Porn hub live> click the yellow "join free" button at the top.

It's right there under the big bold letters that say "Create your FREE account now"

As to the rest of your post, I'm not going to rehash this whole argument all over again Bob. At this point were just talking right past each other.

Czarcasm
01-30-2014, 10:54 AM
You're missing it. Go to Porn hub live> click the yellow "join free" button at the top.

It's right there under the big bold letters that say "Create your FREE account now"

As to the rest of your post, I'm not going to rehash this whole argument all over again Bob. At this point were just talking right past each other.Would you have given your credit card number to them if you had seen the information I dug up on them first?

Grrr!
01-30-2014, 11:06 AM
Would you have given your credit card number to them if you had seen the information I dug up on them first?

Probably not. I did this whole thing on a whim. Here's how it went down.

I'm browsing the free website Pornhub, when all the sudden a pop up comes on for Pornhub Live, and on it, it's showing a camgirl with the name of Amy Fisher. I'm thinking: "Amy Fisher? Is that the same Amy Fisher that shot that poor lady's face off?" I found this to be both hilarious and intriguing. So curiosity got the better of me and I joined their stupid site.

GrandWino
01-30-2014, 11:07 AM
You're missing it. Go to Porn hub live> click the yellow "join free" button at the top.

It's right there under the big bold letters that say "Create your FREE account now"

As to the rest of your post, I'm not going to rehash this whole argument all over again Bob. At this point were just talking right past each other.

Just went back and clicked that yellow button and it took me to the page to enter a username and email address (to receive a password). Nothing anywhere that says what you say it does. The only thing even close is "Join Now! It's totally FREE!No credit card needed" but that's not a lie, as I was clearly able to sign up without giving a credit card. The page where they ask for card info is pretty clearly marked that you'll be charged. The screen caps are all right there for anyone to see.

It's cool, man. We all make mistakes, especially when horniness is involved.

Grrr!
01-30-2014, 11:15 AM
Just went back and clicked that yellow button and it took me to the page to enter a username and email address (to receive a password). Nothing anywhere that says what you say it does. The only thing even close is "Join Now! It's totally FREE!No credit card needed" but that's not a lie, as I was clearly able to sign up without giving a credit card. The page where they ask for card info is pretty clearly marked that you'll be charged. The screen caps are all right there for anyone to see.

It's cool, man. We all make mistakes, especially when horniness is involved.

I can't do screen caps so here: NSFW!!

https://secure.pornhublive.com/signup/?AFNO=1-595728-JD-3-0-437+1l1+mt1x1.2330659661.2.595728.338243.0+en+1&stno=1-630-829-3050-2073-2055&ald=

It's right there at the top slightly to the right. On the left side of the page is where they ask for all your information.

GrandWino
01-30-2014, 11:22 AM
I can't do screen caps so here: NSFW!!

It's right there at the top slightly to the right. On the left side of the page is where they ask for all your information.

Got it. Weird. I'll stand down on that point then.

It appears there are two completely separate PornHubLive sites? The one I did all the screen capping of is the one that pops up when you search for it, but appears to be based in the country of St. Pierre. It also appears to be much more legitimate/less sketchy than this one.

Cheshire Human
01-30-2014, 05:15 PM
.... So curiosity got the better of me and I joined their stupid site.

There's your problem, right there. Curiosity got the better of you, and your skepticism went right out the window. So you handed them your CC#, and the rest is history. Scammer history, but history nonetheless.

Taking advantage of people's greed, lust (porn site, after all), gluttony, or any of the other '7 deadly sins' is a time-honored tradition of scammers.

" 'Dog bites Man', film not at 11, because my editor will fire me for such a 'non-story'. " We need a :yawn: smilie.

Cheshire Human
01-30-2014, 06:48 PM
I can't do screen caps so here: NSFW!!

https://secure.pornhublive.com/signup/?AFNO=1-595728-JD-3-0-437+1l1+mt1x1.2330659661.2.595728.338243.0+en+1&stno=1-630-829-3050-2073-2055&ald=

It's right there at the top slightly to the right. On the left side of the page is where they ask for all your information.

Uhhh... that page doesn't ask for a CC#. It asks for:

Email:
Password:
Nickname:
First name:
Last name:
Country:
Street:
City:
State:
Zip:

What did the page that actually ask for your CC# say? Because that page wasn't it.

madrabbitwoman
01-30-2014, 11:06 PM
Uhhh... that page doesn't ask for a CC#. It asks for:

Email:
Password:
Nickname:
First name:
Last name:
Country:
Street:
City:
State:
Zip:

What did the page that actually ask for your CC# say? Because that page wasn't it.
right hand side of page - Signing up is absolutely free, you will NOT be charged for your membership. We will only verify that your credit card is valid. You will NEVER be charged, unless you are entering any clearly marked paid area of the site.

Cheshire Human
01-31-2014, 07:22 PM
right hand side of page -

Uhh...

OK, you're right. There is a place to enter a CC#.

I stand corrected. There is a way for someone to stupidly punch in a CC#.

PlainJain
02-01-2014, 01:02 AM
Just had to update a bit. When doing my research I apparently went to the same site that Bob D. did. The legit one that doesn't ask for a cc. So like Bob I'll stand down a bit... a bit. I still contend that giving an Internet business a credit card # that they promise not to use is less than prudent.

However, all that said, Shakes did make good on his promise to pay for a membership subscription to the boards for me. I think that was very admirable and I appreciate it very much. Thank you, sir. I am enjoying my ad free browsing.

Canadjun
02-01-2014, 09:09 AM
I think I did the same. I also agree with PlainJain's comment re providing a credit card for a "free" service. Can you report these bastards for fraud (the original OP)? In the best of all possible worlds maybe that would accomplish something. In our existing world all it would accomplish would be to provide humor to whoever you reported it to.

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