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davidmich
01-29-2014, 05:32 AM
Hi
Non-British citizens receiving an honorary knighhood many not call themselves "Sir". Is that correct?


http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100504132203AAgPdvO

I seen to remember "Sir Bob Geldof". He's Irish if I'm not mistaken. I also remember "Sir" Allen Stanford of Stanford Group (and his $9.2 billion Ponzi scheme) who was knighted in 2006 by Antigua (part of the British Commonwealth) but he's a 5th generation Texan.


So what is the deal on knighthoods for non-British citizens and can they call themselves Sir or not?

I look forward to your feedback.
davidmich

Wallenstein
01-29-2014, 05:44 AM
"When a foreign national receives an honorary knighthood of an order of chivalry, he is not entitled to the prefix Sir, but he may place the appropriate letters after his name. ... An honorary knight of an order of chivalry uses the appropriate letters after his name, but without the prefix Sir because he is not eligible to receive the accolade."

Elizabeth Wyse, Jo Aitchison, Ze Gullen, Eleanor Mathieson, ed. (2006). "Forms of Address". Debrett's Correct Form (2006 ed.). Richmond, Surrey: Debrett's Limited. pp. 98, 100. ISBN 978-1-870520-88-1.

Bob Geldof as a non-Commonwealth national cannot formally use "Sir", but that doesn't stop other people from using it incorrectly about him.

Lord Feldon
01-29-2014, 05:47 AM
It's correct that honorary knighthoods don't come with any special entitlement to be "sir X," but I don't think any countries have laws forbidding honorary knights from using it anyways. It just won't be recognized by any official authorities.

Allen Stanford is a naturalized Antiguan citizen according to this article (http://bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aELwAubcAvR8).

Lord Feldon
01-29-2014, 05:51 AM
It's a common mistake, I think. Gordon Brown referred to "Sir Edward Kennedy" when he announced his honorary knighthood.

Bob Geldof as a non-Commonwealth national cannot formally use "Sir", but that doesn't stop other people from using it incorrectly about him.

Most Commonwealth nationals don't get to have it either. Citizens of Commonwealth republics get honorary awards, at least in the UK and New Zealand.

SanVito
01-29-2014, 07:20 AM
Another one is Bill Gates. Not Sir William Henry Gates but rather William Henry Gates III KBE should he choose (KBE = Knight Commander of the Order of the British Empire).

F. U. Shakespeare
01-29-2014, 07:33 AM
I remember when General Norman Schwarzkopf was knighted following the Gulf War. A spokesperson noted that the restriction didn't really matter: "We all call him 'sir' anyway".

ftg
01-29-2014, 09:51 AM
I still giggle when people try to distinguish between regular and "honorary" knighthoods. Like the regular ones are expected to get some armor and saddle up to defend the queen or something.

They're all honorary, folks.

Hypno-Toad
01-29-2014, 11:33 AM
I think the correct term is that one is a supernumery member of the order, i.e. beyond the approved maximum number.

Schnitte
01-29-2014, 12:23 PM
I still giggle when people try to distinguish between regular and "honorary" knighthoods. Like the regular ones are expected to get some armor and saddle up to defend the queen or something.

They're all honorary, folks.

"Honorary" in the context of knighthoods refers to people who are not citizens of a Commonwealth realm. The idea is that these people are not subjects of the Queen and can therefore not owe her the same loyalty as a citizen of a Commonwealth realm could. For the latter, the knighthood would not be considered "honorary".

Peter Morris
01-29-2014, 12:27 PM
I still giggle when people try to distinguish between regular and "honorary" knighthoods. Like the regular ones are expected to get some armor and saddle up to defend the queen or something.

They're all honorary, folks.

Indeed, they say that an honour is without profit in our own country.

(old joke, I know)

Saint Cad
01-29-2014, 12:29 PM
So my plan is to move to London, do my 5 years of the Lunar House shuffle and then apply for citizenship. Since I plan on getting my knighthood earlier rather than later i.e. within the first five years, can I be called Sir Saint Cad once I get British (or United Kingdom of England, Wales and Northern Ireland) citizenship?

Similarly, if Scotland secedes, will their knights be allowed to use Sir? Would it be a "in Scotland" only thing? Would it make a difference if they dump Ellie 2 and have Francis 1 (the Stuart pretender not the Pope) as king?

Schnitte
01-29-2014, 12:35 PM
Similarly, if Scotland secedes, will their knights be allowed to use Sir?

It all depends on the details of Scottish secession should it occur, of course. The plan of the Scottish government (which favours secession) is to establish a monarchy in a personal union with what remains of the United Kingdom. It would, essentially, be a relationship similar to that between the Commonwealth kingdoms now, so knights with Scottish citizenship would be entitled to the "Sir" prefix just like those of Australian, Canadian etc. citizenship are now.

Colophon
01-29-2014, 12:37 PM
I remember when Bob Geldof got his knighthood, the media took pains to point out that he wasn't "Sir Bob". But of course nobody really took any notice.

Peter Morris
01-29-2014, 12:38 PM
can I be called Sir Saint Cad once I get British ... citizenship?

I understand the Saint title would more or less override the Sir. You would still be Saint Cad. That's how it worked with Thomas Moore, at least.

Duckster
01-29-2014, 12:41 PM
So my plan is to move to London, do my 5 years of the Lunar House shuffle and then apply for citizenship.

Move to Australia instead. The food is better, the climate more comfortable and when you are knighted by the Queen of Australia you receive vegemite with your title. Plus, if you ever travel to England you can storm Buckingham Palace riding an emu, throwing boomerangs to disable Palace guards.

Schnitte
01-29-2014, 12:41 PM
Would it make a difference if they dump Ellie 2 and have Francis 1 (the Stuart pretender not the Pope) as king?

I guess in the second case, the situation would be analogous to that of Tonga: A member of the Commonwealth which has its own monarchy rather than being a republic, or remaining in personal union with the UK. Citizens of Tonga are, to my knowledge, not entitled to the "Sir" prefix when knighted, since they are not subjects of the Queen.

alphaboi867
01-29-2014, 06:25 PM
It's correct that honorary knighthoods don't come with any special entitlement to be "sir X," but I don't think any countries have laws forbidding honorary knights from using it anyways. It just won't be recognized by any official authorities...

Canada is a Commonwealth realm that doesn't allow it's citizens to get either real or honorary knighthoods.

the_diego
01-29-2014, 07:05 PM
Before I thought only Englishmen can be called 'Sir.' KBE Bob Geldof is Irish, right?

Mk VII
01-29-2014, 07:23 PM
The present rule is that all Commonwealth nation citizens can be styled 'Sir'. Ireland left the Commonwealth in 1949, having been semi-detached for years, so Geldorf would be Mr. Bob Geldorf, KBE. However the Press often fail to note the difference correctly.
In recent years both Canada and Australia have asked Britain not to award their nationals any of the old British honours as they are trying to push their own native versions and it is seen as 'devaluing the currency' if people think they might get a British one instead. Conrad Black promptly changed his nationality to get a UK Peerage, much to Canada's annoyance.

Lord Feldon
01-29-2014, 07:24 PM
Canada is a Commonwealth realm that doesn't allow it's citizens to get either real or honorary knighthoods.

Canada has no law forbidding its citizens from accepting knighthoods. It asks that Britain please not give any to its citizens, but if it happens anyways, that's just the way it is. Canadian citizens resident in Britain have received substantive knighthoods.

The present rule is that all Commonwealth nation citizens can be styled 'Sir'.

Commonwealth realm citizens.

UDS
01-29-2014, 08:13 PM
So my plan is to move to London, do my 5 years of the Lunar House shuffle and then apply for citizenship. Since I plan on getting my knighthood earlier rather than later i.e. within the first five years, can I be called Sir Saint Cad once I get British (or United Kingdom of England, Wales and Northern Ireland) citizenship?
Nope. If, at the time of your appointment, you are not a citizen of a Commonwealth Realm, you will be appointed a supernumerary member of the order. If you later become a citizen of a Commonwealth realm that won't change, unless and until the government of the realm concerned advised the Queen to change it.

So, if they offer you a knighthood within the first five years, demur blushingly and ask instead for an hon. OBE plus appointment to a public service sinecure instead - Elder Brother of Trinity House would do nicely, and I hear the dinners are very good. After a few years of hard dining on behalf of the nation (during which you will have been naturalised) you can then let it be known that modesty prevents you from disputing that your sterling efforts for the national betterment and your copious donations to political parties are by now sufficient to justify the 'K'.

Kiwi Fruit
01-29-2014, 08:53 PM
Move to Australia instead. The food is better, the climate more comfortable and when you are knighted by the Queen of Australia you receive vegemite with your title. Plus, if you ever travel to England you can storm Buckingham Palace riding an emu, throwing boomerangs to disable Palace guards.
Problem is that Australia doesn't award knighthoods any more. Try New Zealand. We dropped the British ones (GBE, KBE, DBE) and instated some of our own.
GNZM, KNZM and DNZM can be awarded to NZers or citizens of Commonwealth Realms and entitle ordinary holders to be styled Sir Joe Bloggs. Also, we offer Marmite and kiwifruit.

Ethilrist
01-29-2014, 08:56 PM
Need answer fast?

Pjen
01-29-2014, 10:33 PM
And then there are the wonderful fudges that can go on. Broadcaster Terry Wogan who is Irish but has earned his crust in the UK for most of his life was given a Knighthood, initially as an honorary affair as even though he is a British "National Treasure", he retains his Irish citizenship. Then it was pointed out that as he was born before he full separation of the Southern Counties in 1949, he was in fact eligible to assert his right to full British citizenship, and did so, allowing him to be formally Sir Terry Wogan.

The political and personal boundaries between British and Irish, Britain and Ireland, are incredibly complex!

installLSC
01-29-2014, 11:11 PM
Couple of questions:
--Do knights in the UK (or any other nation) get any special legal status whether they are on domestic soil or foreign soil?
--Could anyone claiming to be a knight (but not legally able to hold that title) be prosecuted on fraud or similar charges?

Pjen
01-29-2014, 11:28 PM
Couple of questions:
--Do knights in the UK (or any other nation) get any special legal status whether they are on domestic soil or foreign soil?
--Could anyone claiming to be a knight (but not legally able to hold that title) be prosecuted on fraud or similar charges?

No special privileges except being a member of the order. Some orders are more collegial than others!

In the UK you can call yourself what you want; if you do so to commit fraud that would be an offence.

You could change your name to Sir Fred Bloggs, or Lord Bloggs of Neasden and have that on all your ID- but use it illegally and that will be sanctioned; use it to get a good table in a restaurant- that is OK.

Acsenray
01-29-2014, 11:30 PM
Couple of questions:
--Do knights in the UK (or any other nation) get any special legal status whether they are on domestic soil or foreign soil?

I'm not an expert, but I think the answer is "no." One thing to remember is that a knight is not a lord or nobleman -- known in Britain as a "peer of the realm." A knighthood really just is an honor.

Ranger Jeff
01-30-2014, 12:02 AM
I guess since I'm not a subject of the realm but if I had an honorary KBE, DBE, or GBE and I was passing through a reception line to shake hands with the Queen, Princes Charles, Andrew, William, or Harold and I was wearing my decoration, they might call me "Sir Ranger", but I'm pretty sure there'd be a wink involved also.

kaylasdad99
01-30-2014, 12:16 AM
Couple of questions:
--Do knights in the UK (or any other nation) get any special legal status whether they are on domestic soil or foreign soil?No, but they do find their names placed on the dragon-slaying rota, in the event that any dragons show up.
--Could anyone claiming to be a knight (but not legally able to hold that title) be prosecuted on fraud or similar charges?
Nope; they just place the guy's name on the dragon-slaying rota every day. If a dragon shows up, well, that just means that sufficient punishment will be applying soon.

UDS
01-30-2014, 12:32 AM
Couple of questions:
--Do knights in the UK (or any other nation) get any special legal status whether they are on domestic soil or foreign soil?
No.

--Could anyone claiming to be a knight (but not legally able to hold that title) be prosecuted on fraud or similar charges?
In the UK, the crown is "the fount of all honours", and anyone claiming and using an honour not granted by the crown is, at least in theory, infringing on the crown's prerogative (by purporting to grant to himself an honour which only the crown can grant). This is unlawful. It may or may not be an offence, depending on the circumstances.

It is, however, very rarely prosecuted as an offence. The British authorities tend to take the view that anyone who is not a knight but is calling himself "Sir John Smith" is presumed not to be claiming to be a knight; he is claiming to be a gentleman with the forename "Sir", and there's nothing illegal about that. You can assume any name you like.

Steophan
01-30-2014, 12:39 AM
I guess since I'm not a subject of the realm but if I had an honorary KBE, DBE, or GBE and I was passing through a reception line to shake hands with the Queen, Princes Charles, Andrew, William, or Harold and I was wearing my decoration, they might call me "Sir Ranger", but I'm pretty sure there'd be a wink involved also.

Minor nitpick - Henry, not Harold.

Habeed
01-30-2014, 12:49 AM
So, how do you get a Knighthood?

UDS
01-30-2014, 01:37 AM
So, how do you get a Knighthood?
The government of a Commonwealth realm advises the Queen to grant you one.

To do this, the government has to think that you are a Splendid Chap. Quite a number of Commonwealth Realms have governments who have a policy of never recommending people for knighthoods - it offends their democratic sensibilities - so pick a realm whose government has no such scruples, and try to endear yourself to its government so that they can perceive your full Splendidity.

In most cases, a long career in the civil service, culminating in appointment to a very senior office, is taken as irrefutable proof of Splendidity. This is probably the surest way to a knighthood, along with a legal career leading to appointment as a High Court Judge (or better). If time and/or your career aspirations do not permit this, then (a) really conspicuous public acheivement in a charitable or educational field, or (b) a high-acheiving career in commerce or industry plus some strikingly generous donations to the right political party, or (c) a long career as loyal lobby-fodder as a backbench MP, are probably your best bets.

Habeed
01-30-2014, 02:11 AM
The government of a Commonwealth realm advises the Queen to grant you one.

To do this, the government has to think that you are a Splendid Chap. Quite a number of Commonwealth Realms have governments who have a policy of never recommending people for knighthoods - it offends their democratic sensibilities - so pick a realm whose government has no such scruples, and try to endear yourself to its government so that they can perceive your full Splendidity.

In most cases, a long career in the civil service, culminating in appointment to a very senior office, is taken as irrefutable proof of Splendidity. This is probably the surest way to a knighthood, along with a legal career leading to appointment as a High Court Judge (or better). If time and/or your career aspirations do not permit this, then (a) really conspicuous public acheivement in a charitable or educational field, or (b) a high-acheiving career in commerce or industry plus some strikingly generous donations to the right political party, or (c) a long career as loyal lobby-fodder as a backbench MP, are probably your best bets.

This...sounds unseemly. Frankly, it sounds less like "splendid chap" and more like "weasel with the right connections or extraordinary luck in business".

Ah well, that's about what I would have expected.

The Second Stone
01-30-2014, 02:13 AM
So I should properly address Sir Mixalot as Mr. Mixalot?

UDS
01-30-2014, 03:12 AM
So I should properly address Sir Mixalot as Mr. Mixalot?

Mr. Sir Mixalot, Mr S. Mixalot or Sir Mixalot Esq would all do.

davidmich
01-30-2014, 03:58 AM
The fol,lowing states that knights were "the lowest ranks oft eh nobles". Is this correct?

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100413194403AAbHYJ1

"Nobleman was the general label for all of the nobility, from lowly knight to the king himself. Knights were often the lowest ranks of nobles. They exchanged their military service in order to get lands and manors from a higher ranking nobleman."

davidmich

davidmich
01-30-2014, 03:59 AM
http://themiddleages.net/life/knights.html


"Knight is a term to refer to a warrior or nobleman in former times, or today to refer to a person who has been given a royal recognition. The female form of the latter is usually Dame. "

SanVito
01-30-2014, 05:14 AM
The fol,lowing states that knights were "the lowest ranks oft eh nobles". Is this correct?

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100413194403AAbHYJ1

"Nobleman was the general label for all of the nobility, from lowly knight to the king himself. Knights were often the lowest ranks of nobles. They exchanged their military service in order to get lands and manors from a higher ranking nobleman."

davidmich

Yes. When you're talking about the titled classes, Knights are the lowest. In the UK, a Knight who is a politician, for example, still sits in the House of Commons, as does the next level up Baronets (also styled 'Sir'). The next level up, Baron, styled 'Lord' would sit in the House of Lords.

The highest ranking in the peerage is a Duke.

Malden Capell
01-30-2014, 05:24 AM
This...sounds unseemly. Frankly, it sounds less like "splendid chap" and more like "weasel with the right connections or extraordinary luck in business".

Ah well, that's about what I would have expected.

I think UDS is being a tad too cynical!

There are government honours committees (https://gov.uk/honours-committees) that vet candidates in various fields of activity and make recommendations that the PM can then take to the Queen. There are some that the PM can choose to recommend on his own bat, but the vast majority of honours are bestowed on people who do genuinely awesome work in local communities.

Colophon
01-30-2014, 06:15 AM
Also, we offer Marmite and kiwifruit.
The brown goop labelled "Marmite" in New Zealand is not remotely the same as proper British Marmite, knighthoods or no knighthoods.

APB
01-30-2014, 08:40 AM
One important point about the rule that non-British citizens who receive British honours don't get to use that title is that it is reciprocal - British citizens who receive honours from anyone other than the Queen are also not supposed to use those titles (http://heraldica.org/topics/britain/foreigntitles.htm). (The cases where this applies are now mostly papal knighthoods.)

Kenm
01-30-2014, 09:29 AM
Conrad Black promptly changed his nationality to get a UK Peerage, much to Canada's annoyance.Who in Canada was annoyed? Who cared, other than Conrad Black?

Alas, it's only Conrad Black and perhaps his wife who care now.

Really Not All That Bright
01-30-2014, 09:49 AM
So, how do you get a Knighthood?
The government of a Commonwealth realm advises the Queen to grant you one.

<snip>

In most cases, a long career in the civil service, culminating in appointment to a very senior office, is taken as irrefutable proof of Splendidity. This is probably the surest way to a knighthood, along with a legal career leading to appointment as a High Court Judge (or better). If time and/or your career aspirations do not permit this, then (a) really conspicuous public acheivement in a charitable or educational field, or (b) a high-acheiving career in commerce or industry plus some strikingly generous donations to the right political party, or (c) a long career as loyal lobby-fodder as a backbench MP, are probably your best bets.
There are government honours committees (https://gov.uk/honours-committees) that vet candidates in various fields of activity and make recommendations that the PM can then take to the Queen. There are some that the PM can choose to recommend on his own bat, but the vast majority of honours are bestowed on people who do genuinely awesome work in local communities.
The quickest way is be a British citizen who's good at a sport. Winning two Olympic gold medals is probably the fastest way of all, though perhaps not as easy as completing a career in the civil service.

PaulParkhead
01-30-2014, 10:00 AM
Who in Canada was annoyed? Who cared, other than Conrad Black?

Alas, it's only Conrad Black and perhaps his wife who care now.

Well, I doubt that Canadians were marching in the streets in protest, but then PM Jean Chretien did complain about it.

Walker in Eternity
01-30-2014, 11:00 AM
This...sounds unseemly. Frankly, it sounds less like "splendid chap" and more like "weasel with the right connections or extraordinary luck in business".

Ah well, that's about what I would have expected.

Exactly why I would never accept one (not that I would ever be offered one). The whole system is archaic and if not corrupt then certainly stinks of cronyism.

While it's not a knighthood, even David Cameron's hairdresser (http://bbc.co.uk/news/uk-25629480) has received an MBE.

Sorry if this is off topic, don't want to turn it into a GD.

Horatio Hellpop
01-30-2014, 11:11 AM
It all depends on the details of Scottish secession should it occur, of course. The plan of the Scottish government (which favours secession) is to establish a monarchy in a personal union with what remains of the United Kingdom. It would, essentially, be a relationship similar to that between the Commonwealth kingdoms now, so knights with Scottish citizenship would be entitled to the "Sir" prefix just like those of Australian, Canadian etc. citizenship are now.

So, who'd win in a fight between a Scottish knight and a Kentucky Colonel?

Gyrate
01-30-2014, 11:24 AM
I remember when Bob Geldof got his knighthood, the media took pains to point out that he wasn't "Sir Bob". But of course nobody really took any notice.Because "Sir Bob" is fun to say.

ISTR Anthony Hopkins lost the right to be referred to as "Sir Anthony" when he became a naturalized US citizen, despite retaining his British citizenship (and the knighthood).

Really Not All That Bright
01-30-2014, 11:39 AM
He had to renounce his fealty to the crown in the oath of naturalization but that has no legal effect as far as Britain is concerned.
I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty, of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the Armed Forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God.

Elendil's Heir
01-30-2014, 03:20 PM
...In most cases, a long career in the civil service, culminating in appointment to a very senior office, is taken as irrefutable proof of Splendidity. This is probably the surest way to a knighthood....

From Yes, Minister - "Doing the Honours":

Bernard explains to the Minister the honours available to senior Civil Servants.

Hacker: Well, what has Sir Arnold to fear, anyway? He's got all the honours he could want, surely?
Bernard: Well, naturally he has his G.
Hacker: G?
Bernard: Yes; you get your G after your K.
Hacker: You speak in riddles, Bernard.
Bernard: Well, take the Foreign Office. First you get the CMG, then the KCMG, then the GCMG; the Commander of the Order of St Michael and St George, Knight Commander of St Michael and St George, Knight Grand Cross of St Michael and St George. Of course, in the Service, CMG stands for "Call Me God," and KCMG for "Kindly Call Me God."
Hacker: [chuckles] What does GCMG stand for?
Bernard: "God Calls Me God."

UDS
01-30-2014, 06:32 PM
The fol,lowing states that knights were "the lowest ranks oft eh nobles". Is this correct?

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100413194403AAbHYJ1

"Nobleman was the general label for all of the nobility, from lowly knight to the king himself. Knights were often the lowest ranks of nobles. They exchanged their military service in order to get lands and manors from a higher ranking nobleman."

davidmich
"Nobility" isn't a well-defined term, but in the UK at any rate knights are not considered to be noble. Dukes, Marquesses, Earls, Viscounts and Barons all used to have seats in the House of Lords, and (until the introduction of life peerages some time in the 1950s) their titles were all hereditary. They were considered to constitute the nobility. The title of "knight" is a personal honour; it's not hereditary, and it never carried a right to participate in the House of Lords. Knights were not considered to be part of the nobility. A baronetcy is hereditary, but never carried a seat in the House of Lords; baronets, too, were not considered to be part of the nobility.

UDS
01-30-2014, 06:34 PM
I think UDS is being a tad too cynical!

There are government honours committees (https://gov.uk/honours-committees) that vet candidates in various fields of activity and make recommendations that the PM can then take to the Queen. There are some that the PM can choose to recommend on his own bat, but the vast majority of honours are bestowed on people who do genuinely awesome work in local communities.
Honours, possibly, but the OP asks specifically about knighthoods. You don't get a knighthood for fifty years' loyal service as an ambulance volunteer.

alphaboi867
01-30-2014, 08:53 PM
The government of a Commonwealth realm advises the Queen to grant you one...

Not always. The Order of the Garter, the Order of the Thistle, and the Royal Victorian Order all within the Queen's personal gift; they aren't granted on the advice of any government.

UDS
01-30-2014, 10:14 PM
Not always. The Order of the Garter, the Order of the Thistle, and the Royal Victorian Order all within the Queen's personal gift; they aren't granted on the advice of any government.
True, but to get one of these what you have to do is convince the Queen that you are a Splendid Chap, and the Queen's criteria for Splendidity appear to be remarkably similar to the government's, with the exception that in place of bunging large sums at a political party you can impress the Queen by marrying one of her relatives.

(Cynical? Moi?)

Lord Feldon
01-30-2014, 10:44 PM
Not always. The Order of the Garter, the Order of the Thistle, and the Royal Victorian Order all within the Queen's personal gift; they aren't granted on the advice of any government.

But even then, she doesn't give out knighthoods in countries where the government policy is against it. When she wanted to give the Garter to Vincent Massey, she knew it would make waves, so she asked the government's opinion first (they said no). And the current Governor-General of Australia just has a piddly little CVO even though a GCVO would have been automatic twenty or thirty years ago.

Mister Rik
01-30-2014, 11:15 PM
I still giggle when people try to distinguish between regular and "honorary" knighthoods. Like the regular ones are expected to get some armor and saddle up to defend the queen or something.

That would be ... AWESOME.

davidmich
01-31-2014, 01:45 AM
http://harshlands.net/Pages/Nobility.aspx

davidmich
01-31-2014, 01:46 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knight



"A knight is a person granted an honorary title of knighthood by a monarch or other political leader for service to the monarch or country, especially in a military capacity. Historically, in Europe, knighthood has been conferred upon mounted warriors.[1] During the High Middle Ages, knighthood was considered a class of lower nobility. By the Late Middle Ages, the rank had become associated with the ideals of chivalry, a code of conduct for the perfect courtly Christian warrior. Since the Early Modern period, the title of knight is purely honorific, usually bestowed by a monarch, as in the British honours system, often for non-military service to the country."

Cheshire Human
02-01-2014, 09:45 AM
So, who'd win in a fight between a Scottish knight and a Kentucky Colonel?

The Colonel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_rifle) has greater range than the knight (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claymore), so it would depend on whether or not the Colonel saw him coming from far enough away.

blindboyard
02-01-2014, 12:41 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knight



"A knight is a person granted an honorary title of knighthood by a monarch or other political leader for service to the monarch or country, especially in a military capacity. Historically, in Europe, knighthood has been conferred upon mounted warriors.[1] During the High Middle Ages, knighthood was considered a class of lower nobility. By the Late Middle Ages, the rank had become associated with the ideals of chivalry, a code of conduct for the perfect courtly Christian warrior. Since the Early Modern period, the title of knight is purely honorific, usually bestowed by a monarch, as in the British honours system, often for non-military service to the country."

During the hundred years war it was quite possible to buy a knighthood, and for a while was even compulsory once you passed a certain level of wealth, a nice source of income for the Crown. It wasn't nobility. In the Anglo-Saxon period, whence the word knight, it meant a mounted servant.

blindboyard
02-01-2014, 12:45 PM
Honours, possibly, but the OP asks specifically about knighthoods. You don't get a knighthood for fifty years' loyal service as an ambulance volunteer.

That sounds more like an MBE level achievement, but knighthoods are also part of the honours system. Fifty years in the civil service would probably do the trick, or the diplomatic service, or certain sporting achievements, like Sir Alex Ferguson or Dame Kelly Holmes.

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