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rsa
06-15-2014, 07:47 PM
This sentence in the fine print at the bottom of this page (http://www3.ambest.com/ambv/bestnews/presscontent.aspx?altsrc=0&refnum=20228) struck me as incorrect.
A.M. Bestís credit ratings are independent and objective opinions, not statements of fact.
Aren't opinions by definition subjective?

MrKnowItAll
06-15-2014, 07:57 PM
I just looked up the definitions of "opinion", "subjective", and "objective".

Yes, I'd say you're right.

....In my opinion.

Fishtar
06-15-2014, 08:21 PM
This sentence in the fine print at the bottom of this page (http://www3.ambest.com/ambv/bestnews/presscontent.aspx?altsrc=0&refnum=20228) struck me as incorrect.

Aren't opinions by definition subjective?
There are scientific opinions, medical opinions, legal opinions, ect. Which are based on logic, and data. One doctor says you are going to die based on this evidence, another says you are fine based on some other evidence..... Both have objective opinions. One just either has better data and/or is smarter.

Exapno Mapcase
06-15-2014, 08:21 PM
I'd guess that in that context they mean their opinions are not bought or otherwise influenced by the firms they are rating. Context is everything.

CookingWithGas
06-15-2014, 08:55 PM
I would say that their use of the term "objective opinion" is an attempt to redefine the word "objective." Which I would be OK with, but they don't explicitly define it. Exapno Mapcase probably has the right interpretation here, where the opinion is based solely on the object and not on external factors. But that is not the commonly understood meaning of "objective."

Exapno Mapcase
06-15-2014, 09:39 PM
I would say that their use of the term "objective opinion" is an attempt to redefine the word "objective." Which I would be OK with, but they don't explicitly define it. Exapno Mapcase probably has the right interpretation here, where the opinion is based solely on the object and not on external factors. But that is not the commonly understood meaning of "objective."

It's a standard dictionary (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/objective?s=t) definition, though.

5. not influenced by personal feelings, interpretations, or prejudice; based on facts; unbiased: an objective opinion.

Fishtar
06-15-2014, 10:06 PM
I would say that their use of the term "objective opinion" is an attempt to redefine the word "objective." Which I would be OK with, but they don't explicitly define it. Exapno Mapcase probably has the right interpretation here, where the opinion is based solely on the object and not on external factors. But that is not the commonly understood meaning of "objective."

Yeah, objective = unbiased. I think most agree on this. In think the confusion comes from the word "opinion". Words like opinion and theory have fairly specific meanings in science. (And I suppose accounting could be considered a branch of mathematics)

For instance a theory is "a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world that is acquired through the scientific method, and repeatedly confirmed through observation and experimentation."

While an opinion is a conclusion reached about probabilities and is based on empirical evidence.


That said, bias has a nasty way of creeping in, as human beings are not computers. The more wishy washy afield is the more subjective things get. Physics vs psychology for instance. So a credit rating agency......

Little Nemo
06-16-2014, 03:47 AM
I agree with Exapno. Objective opinion is a well established term.

I could say, for example, that my objective opinion is that Captain America: The Winter Soldier was a better movie than Thor: The Dark World. It's pretty obvious my opinion here is actually subjective in one sense - I don't have hard evidence to support my preference. But in this case, saying my opinion is objective means I wasn't influenced by outside factors like getting invited to a press junket and I have no financial stake in either movie.

CookingWithGas
06-16-2014, 07:58 AM
It's a standard dictionary (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/objective?s=t) definition, though.But this seems to be at odds with the definition of opinion (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/opinion).1.
a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty.

Chihuahua
06-16-2014, 08:24 AM
All of my opinions are objective.

Opinions of people who disagree with me are subjective.

It's just a stunning coincidence that their opinions are also objectively wrong.

:D

Exapno Mapcase
06-16-2014, 10:50 AM
But this seems to be at odds with the definition of opinion (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/opinion).

Language does not work "rationally". Words develop their own meanings. If people want the word objective to have a specific meaning when modifying the word opinion they will make it so and it is as legitimate as any other word or meaning in the language.

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