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#51
Old 03-18-2014, 07:08 PM
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Anyway, this is a digression and I don't want to derail the thread. Any other questions, I'll be glad to take via PM.
#52
Old 03-18-2014, 07:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Ethilrist View Post
So it's probably not something you could give up for Lent?
They better or they'll never get those stains out of the red fabric and tassels....
#53
Old 03-18-2014, 07:22 PM
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Originally Posted by JohnT View Post
I doubt my attitude towards the Church and sex is uncommon. It's amazing the number of 1-child, 2-children Catholic families there are.

*Defined as "largely non-Catholic", though there were Catholics among the founding fathers.
You're right, but this isn't proof of it. Poland in the 1990s had a total fertility rate below 2.0, and the most common method of birth control was NFP.

Surveys of course do indicate that around 90% of Catholic American women use or have used contraception, in defiance of their church.
#54
Old 03-20-2014, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by JohnT View Post
Anyway, this is a digression and I don't want to derail the thread. Any other questions, I'll be glad to take via PM.
Nah, not really a digression. It's the difference between the OP being a General Question about whether the Catholic Church considers maturbation to be a sin and therefore something to include in Confession, and whether in an individual Catholic's opinion, it's a sin.
#55
Old 03-20-2014, 07:52 PM
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From what reading I've done, checking up on what those crazy Catholics are espousing, as long as you are one man and one woman and married IN THE CHURCH (literally, in a church. and by a priest. Civil unions don't count, you will burn in hell for eloping to a justice of the peace. Just the same penalty as murdering, coveting your neighbor's ass, or not going to church)....you can put your 12 kids to bed and then you and your spouse can do anything and everything. As long as it ends up P in V. If not, you have sinned. It must end up P in V. Oh, go ahead and muck about with temperature taking and mucous sniffing and calendars, but any sex must end up P in V. Pornography and self-abuse are wrong-o, because any heating up of the sex organs must end in the chance the woman can get knocked up.
#56
Old 03-20-2014, 08:09 PM
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Originally Posted by salinqmind View Post
As long as it ends up P in V. If not, you have sinned. It must end up P in V.
Cite?
#57
Old 03-20-2014, 08:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by salinqmind View Post
From what reading I've done, checking up on what those crazy Catholics are espousing, as long as you are one man and one woman and married IN THE CHURCH (literally, in a church. and by a priest. Civil unions don't count, you will burn in hell for eloping to a justice of the peace. Just the same penalty as murdering, coveting your neighbor's ass, or not going to church)....you can put your 12 kids to bed and then you and your spouse can do anything and everything. As long as it ends up P in V. If not, you have sinned. It must end up P in V. Oh, go ahead and muck about with temperature taking and mucous sniffing and calendars, but any sex must end up P in V. Pornography and self-abuse are wrong-o, because any heating up of the sex organs must end in the chance the woman can get knocked up.
This might be true.

By which I mean: maybe you did actually read something which said the stuff above.

But it's not an accurate summary of Catholic teaching.
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#58
Old 03-21-2014, 10:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by salinqmind View Post
From what reading I've done, checking up on what those crazy Catholics are espousing, as long as you are one man and one woman and married IN THE CHURCH (literally, in a church. and by a priest. Civil unions don't count, you will burn in hell for eloping to a justice of the peace. Just the same penalty as murdering, coveting your neighbor's ass, or not going to church)....you can put your 12 kids to bed and then you and your spouse can do anything and everything. As long as it ends up P in V. If not, you have sinned. It must end up P in V. Oh, go ahead and muck about with temperature taking and mucous sniffing and calendars, but any sex must end up P in V. Pornography and self-abuse are wrong-o, because any heating up of the sex organs must end in the chance the woman can get knocked up.
The Catholic Church does teach that sexual relations should ideally culminate in the particular act you mention, yes. It doesn't teach that you will "burn in hell", necessarily, for violating that one of its teachings, or for that matter for violating any of its other teachings. The Catholic Church has never made any dogmatic pronouncements, as far as I know, about how many people are going to hell, or whether any particular person happens to be there. (Possibly Judas, but then, Jesus Himself came very close to implying that Judas was in hell, so that's not really on the church). As far as I know, you can be a Catholic in good standing and believe that hell is empty.
#59
Old 03-21-2014, 10:18 PM
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I look in at Catholic.com now and then, and the Catholic Answers boards there, and am both horrified and amused at the topics that come up I understand the concept of 'cafeteria Catholic', but the questions posted and the answers! There is only one WAY and that is the magisterium of the church. There are no allowances made. Everything you do, speak, say is a sin. OMG I really am going to burn in hell for all my many sins! Who knew? I think there are a very few special souls who are going to get on the bus to heaven, The rest of us dont make the cut.
#60
Old 03-21-2014, 10:44 PM
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Originally Posted by JRDelirious View Post
ISTM that would be an Ulfreida rule, not a Catholic Church rule, though. Their take on it is the believer does not get to "genuinely believe" X conduct is a sin, the Church will inform him/her if it's a sin, and if armed with that knowledge s/he still goes ahead and does it, s/he's got to confess it.

( requirements for mortal sin: grave matter + knowledge of the sinfulness + deliberate act; requirements for confession: self examination, true contrition, purpose to amend, actual confession, willingness to do penance)


While at it, I suppose that doing a generic lumping together of conduct is allowed, otherwise if you had to itemize by each individual event most teenagers would never leave the confessional...
Well, the practical truth of the matter is that people don't confess sins they don't think are sins and aren't sorry for. What the Church considers 'grave matter' and what modern American Catholics think is 'grave matter' has undergone a substantial parting of the ways, and parish priests, unlike the people who wrote the Catechism (the new one, not the superseded Baltimore version, which was intended for children), have to deal with this reality.
#61
Old 03-25-2014, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ulfreida View Post
Well, the practical truth of the matter is that people don't confess sins they don't think are sins and aren't sorry for.
If the whole edifice of doctrine is true, deciding on our own what is and is not a sin and what we should or should not repent from means we're in deep yaknowhat. OTOH we can always confess THAT, I guess...
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