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#1
Old 04-17-2003, 10:04 PM
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What's the deal with Hawkgirl's mask?

Does it serve some actual function, or is it just a stylish, secret-identity masking thing? Does Hawkgirl have a secret identity? It'd be hard to, what with the wings. Unless her secret identity was a pigeon or something.
#2
Old 04-17-2003, 10:11 PM
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I thought that was her real face.
#3
Old 04-17-2003, 10:19 PM
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Those wings aren't part of her body, [b]Podkayne. They're mechanical devices that are strapped onto her back (and they only provide maneuverability; she has an anti-gravity belt that provides the lift).

So she could have a secret identity if she needed one, although I don't know if she has one on the Justice League cartoon, which I assume is where you're seeing her.
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#4
Old 04-17-2003, 10:42 PM
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Ooooh, thanks Fiver. Now I want a pair. And the anti-grav belt, too.

Indeed, I'm watching the Justice League on Cartoon Network. Not by choice. The hubby will watch anything with Batman in it.

They don't do much of the secret identity thing at all on Justice League. All I can really recall off the top of my head are a few Bruce Wayne allusions. Can't remember any Clark Kent action, even. Hubby can't remember any secret identies being show on-screen, either.
#5
Old 04-17-2003, 11:47 PM
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Hawkgirl and Hawkman's secret identities are actually very cool and very interrestingly intertwined, but yeah, I think on the cartoon they never really touch on the SID's of the characters except Batman.
#6
Old 04-18-2003, 12:58 AM
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Part of the point of the Justice League was always that the heroes left or were taken out of their regular lives to battle something that required their mustered strength, so yes, Podkayne, we've never seen much of the heroes in their private lives or secret identities.

(I'm basing my comments on the pre-Crisis comic book, of course.)

In the comics (again pre-Crisis), Hawkman and Hawkgirl were a married couple, Katar Hol and Shayara Hol, from the planet Thanagar. I don't remember why they came to Earth, but their secret identities were Carter and Shayara Hall, and Carter was an archaeologist.

The two heroes were a crimefighting duo, so it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to put Hawkgirl and not also Hawkman on the TV series, but I reckon the producers needed to balance out the testosterone with a little more estrogen than just Wonder Woman could provide.
#7
Old 04-18-2003, 01:24 AM
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Is Hawkgirl wearing pearl earrings?

*how is that for a crappy 700th post?*
#8
Old 04-18-2003, 08:53 AM
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I think the mask is just a protective helmet, so she doesn't get injured, and it makes her look more Hawk-like.
#9
Old 04-18-2003, 09:17 AM
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She made a commnent in one of the cartoons that she wasn't human. I just figured it was an ugly alien head atop a sexy, sexy body.
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#10
Old 04-18-2003, 09:48 AM
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I notice a lot of chemistry between her and Green Lantern. If they decide to make more episodes I think it would be interesting if they develop this.
#11
Old 04-18-2003, 11:13 AM
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Oka, from Gorgon's post, then, we're dealing with the Thangarian Hawkgirl.
I'm not an expert, but the current storyline for Hawkman / Hawkgirl is that the two are a pair of souls that are constantly re-incarnating, destined to be in love with each other, and have a connection with the mysterious Thangarian metal that gives them flight, a healing factor, great strength, great senses, and, of course, the reincarnation factor. In past reincarnations, both of them have retained all memories of their past lives (very handy for purposes of knowledge on how to beat the elder terror, "I fought this one once before..."), but in the current comic book incarnation, Hawkgirl did -not- have her memories; her character had amnesia. The storyline is currently bringing out some of her memories, and it's iffy as to whether she's keen on the idea of being destined to 'love' Hawkman. (I'm holding out for the happy ending- the two really do seem 'made' for each other)

Okay, I've babbled on enough, but as for Hawkgirl being an alien, either she means that it's the reincarnation-through-thangarian-metal thing, or they're playing the older version of her, in which both she and Hawkman are of the Thangarian race.
I also agree with Fiver- They needed another female character, and decided to stick her in. The lack of character 'development' bugs me, but hey, it's an action cartoon. :/
#12
Old 04-18-2003, 11:40 AM
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Thanagar, ArrrMatey.
#13
Old 04-18-2003, 12:08 PM
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As for secret identities, even in the comics, the JLA didn't have full knowledge of each others' secret IDs. Superman and Batman knew each other's secret IDs, but I don't think any of the others knew they were Clark and Bruce. J'onn J'onzz has an absurd number of secret identities (the benefit of shapeshifting), so even if people knew who John Jones was, that's not giving away much.

Then, on the other hand, you have the people who have civilian identities, but there's no secret about it. Wally West, The Flash, wears a mask, but when it's off people still recognize him on the street. Eel O'Brien, Plasticman, doesn't even seem to try to look normal out of his costume.

Kyle Raynor is, I think, a mix between the two. Everyone on the Justice League knows him by name, but I'm not sure whether his identity is truly secret in his own comic (someone please clarify?)

So there's at least two for whom the mask is just for show.
#14
Old 04-18-2003, 01:00 PM
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Quote:
Kyle Raynor is, I think, a mix between the two. Everyone on the Justice League knows him by name, but I'm not sure whether his identity is truly secret in his own comic (someone please clarify?)
His identity appears to still be secret in his own book. When his assistant Terry was beaten up, he had a look through his sketchbook, in which were drawings of Kyle as Green Lantern. Kyle said something to the effect of, "He knew. He knew and he never told anyone."

Oh, and it's Rayner. Pet peeve of mine.
#15
Old 04-18-2003, 01:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fiver
The two heroes were a crimefighting duo, so it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to put Hawkgirl and not also Hawkman on the TV series, but I reckon the producers needed to balance out the testosterone with a little more estrogen than just Wonder Woman could provide.
Isn't Hawkman too busy running his law firm to be out superheroing all over the place?
#16
Old 04-18-2003, 01:43 PM
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Nitpick about not showing secret identities on JL- Wasn't there an episode where Green Lantern goes home to visit the 'hood?
#17
Old 04-18-2003, 02:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by kaylasdad99
Isn't Hawkman too busy running his law firm to be out superheroing all over the place?
<facepalms> That's BIRDMAN!

Harvey Birdman!

#18
Old 04-18-2003, 03:09 PM
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Hawkgirl/Hawkwoman (same person) was always cooler than Hawkman. He was just a guy with a thing for archaic weapons and wings. SO was she, bgut she was also a strong, independent, well-realized female character, sorely lacking in the olden days of comics. She works well without Hawkman and I hope they develop her.

I think Stewart is "Out of the Closet" in the cartoon, his buddy (who became Metamorpho seemed to know, at least, and it's not like he wears a mask. I'm not sure iof teh public knew his ID in the comics.

He was always a secondary GL, anyway. The cartoon's trying to sidestep the Hal/Kyle (although Kyle appeared as GL, with Hal's origin, on a episode of the animated Superman) debate and add some melanin to the mix.

Anyone see the one where they almost did "Flash of Two Cities", that was cool.
#19
Old 04-18-2003, 03:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Podkayne
Now I want a pair.
"Hey, Hawkgirl, nice pair." --thud whack slam-- "Of wings! Nice pair of wings! Stop hurting me."
#20
Old 04-18-2003, 04:22 PM
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I got a pair of those already, Cervaise.
#21
Old 04-20-2003, 01:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by ArrrMatey

I also agree with Fiver- They needed another female character, and decided to stick her in. The lack of character 'development' bugs me, but hey, it's an action cartoon. :/
Actually, if you pay attention Hawkgirl's character comes across pretty clearly.
#22
Old 04-20-2003, 03:01 AM
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As a side note. a Hawkman appeared with an incarnation of the JLA in an episode of Batman: Beyond, which is set some 40 years in the future. Along with an older Superman, a adolescent Green Lantern, Aqua Girl (Voiced by Jodi Benson. Heh. Nice touch. ) and a rather...fierce woman who's name I didn't catch.
#23
Old 04-20-2003, 08:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fiver
In the comics (again pre-Crisis), Hawkman and Hawkgirl were a married couple, Katar Hol and Shayara Hol, from the planet Thanagar. I don't remember why they came to Earth, but their secret identities were Carter and Shayara Hall, and Carter was an archaeologist.

They were cops and were chasing a shapeshifting criminal. When they got to Earth, they decided to stick around to learn what our police methods were like.

And a quibble: Their identies were Carter and Shiera Hall and they were museum curators, not archaeolgists.

Keep in mind, Podkayne, there are at least 5 different versions of Hawkman/Hawkwoman(girl): no other characters in any other comic book have as screwed-up a history. There's the version where they're both reincarnated Egyptians, there's the version where he's a interstellar drug-user/murderer and she's a tough-as-nails, butch space-fascist, there's the one where he's the avatar of Chtulhu-esque Hawk-god....etc.

The TV show seems to be going with the "Space cops who've come here to learn our methods" version (which is my favorite, so I'm cool wit' dat!

Menocchio : Quibble, MARVEL had a hard time with strong independant women, and so did DC...except for the characters in Julius Schwartz's stable. Adam Strange had Alanna (easily as good as him), Hawkman had Hawkgirl, the Atom had world-class lawyer Jean Loring, Elongated Man had his wife (and they did a "The Thin Man" riff for years with her as co-detective), when Schwartz got Batman, we got Barbara (Batgirl) Gordon), Green Lantern had Carol (head of a multi-national corporation) Ferris, etc. In Schwartz's books, strong, smart, compentent women were the norm. Which was a rarity in the mid '50s to mid '60s.

Fenris
#24
Old 04-20-2003, 09:47 AM
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Fair enough, Fenris but IMHO, Hawkgirl/woman stands at the head of the pack. Most of the others you mentioned are still non-superheroic supporting characters (with the exceptions of Batgirl and possibly Alanna), albeit unusually strong ones. Hawkgirl was closer to a true equal partnership. Hell, she's one of the few (the only that comes to mind, but I'm sure there's others) that eventually realized that there's no earthly reason why a superpowered adult should go around calling herself "girl".

Rancoth, Big Barda, a New God exile from Apkolips, was the other member of the future JL. Another superheroine that could hold her own with the boys. Actually, she's far superior physically to her husband, Mr. Miracle. But she's from a slightly later period than the Hawks et al.
#25
Old 04-20-2003, 09:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fenris
...there's the version where he's a interstellar drug-user/murderer and she's a tough-as-nails, butch space-fascist, there's the one where he's the avatar of Chtulhu-esque Hawk-god....etc.
[/B]
And they were still good guys?? How'd that work out (especially with the intersteller user/murderer aspect)?
#26
Old 04-20-2003, 11:18 AM
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Carol Ferris was not just a non-superpowered objet de rescue who happened to own a big corp. IIRC, she was also one of the more important members of the Green Lantern Rogues' Gallery, Star Sapphire.
#27
Old 04-20-2003, 11:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by El Elvis Rojo
And they were still good guys?? How'd that work out (especially with the intersteller user/murderer aspect)?
It kinda didn't. As people tried to fix it, things got more and more muddled until Hawkman vanished from continuity for about a decade.

Um....chunks of this may be wrong as they were changing things literally from issue to issue, and sometimes within the same issue, but IIRC, they first said that he wasn't an addict, he was drugged against his will. Then they said that he didn't kill that one guy in a drug induced stupor, it was a frame-up. Then they said that he was ALSO connected to the Egyptian guy. Then they said that the Hawkman who'd been running around in Justice League was another person from Thanagar who just happened to also be named Katar Hol but was really a spy. Then they said ALL Hawkmen past and future were avatars of this big stupid looking, vaguely Cthulhu-in-demeanor Hawk-God. Um...then he became a bird-man (not just a guy in a mask). Then all of the Hawk-people vanished until they decided enough time had passed that they could just say that most of it never happened.

Jayjay: good point, but I think that counts against her: she had to be rescued from being Star Sapphire while as Carol Ferris she was rarely the object-du-rescue. Besides, in the silver-age (pre Neal Adams, say) she was only Star Sapphire...what? three times? (Don't forget, some other woman appeared as Star Sapphire once)

Fenris
#28
Old 04-20-2003, 11:37 AM
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Neither Marvel nor DC have always had the talent or ability to keep their respective universal continuities consistent. When you're dealing with an entire universal history and a web of characters and situations so wide and complex, the ball gets dropped sometimes.

If only they didn't make things even more muddied up through their attempts to smooth things over...

Then again, I'm no fan of start-overs like Crisis or whatever it was that Marvel did to reset everything a few years ago (I'd stopped reading any comic regularly by that time). All of my Who's Whos are useless now...
#29
Old 05-29-2003, 08:45 AM
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I have to bump this after last night, if for no other reason than the line, "Flash! Don't heckle the supervillian!". I still don't see how Grodd could really be a threat to the Flash physically, but mentally..sure. And Batman's "concern" for Wonder Woman was...interesting.
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#30
Old 05-29-2003, 08:52 AM
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quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Podkayne
Now I want a pair.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
Originally posted by Cervaise
"Hey, Hawkgirl, nice pair." --thud whack slam-- "Of wings! Nice pair of wings! Stop hurting me."
What Hawkgirl needs to do, is wear Hawkman's costume. That'll make her very popular.

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#31
Old 05-29-2003, 09:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fiver
Those wings aren't part of her body, Podkayne. They're mechanical devices that are strapped onto her back (and they only provide maneuverability; she has an anti-gravity belt that provides the lift).
What I've always wondered is where the thrust comes from...no, really! I mean, the Hawks can float, and "maneuver," but is it just the flapping of their wings that propels them forward? Or is it the Nth metal that knows which way they wanna go? Because flapping seems kinda slow and limiting...any of you veterans of the DCU have a clue?
#32
Old 05-29-2003, 10:07 AM
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Quote:
What I've always wondered is where the thrust comes from...no, really! I mean, the Hawks can float, and "maneuver," but is it just the flapping of their wings that propels them forward? Or is it the Nth metal that knows which way they wanna go? Because flapping seems kinda slow and limiting...any of you veterans of the DCU have a clue?
In the latest incarnation of Hawkman, there's an issue when they (The Justice Society) go to Thanagar. They fight a big bad, who explains that Nth metal is more than just anti-gravity, it can control the 'fundamental' forces of the universe, provided you have enough of it.... Powered by will power of course.

I'm assuming that the small amount that Hawkgirl carries, provides both trust and lift and it's real potential is limited by her 'primal' urges to swing a mace.
#33
Old 05-29-2003, 06:05 PM
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If the metal provides thrust as well she really doesn't need the wings and they are just a cumbersome nuisance.
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