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#1
Old 05-11-2003, 06:24 PM
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Ahh, yet another tale of cum guzzling asshatted teens and their parents

The story was in the NYTimes on Friday.

It's been a tradition for the Massapequa High School varsity baseball team to spend spring break in Cocoa Beach, Fl, playing baseball up to 12 hours a day.


But this year, instead of spending their free time on the beach or at a pizza shop, at least 15 players spent a considerable amount of time at Sassy Merlot's, which is a strip club. And they didn't just visit once, more like three times.

The 15 players violated the district code of conduct and the athletic code of conduct, therefore they were suspended from the team.

Now, back when I was in high school, the parents would probably have been really pissed off at the players who broke the rules.

But, now, in the 21st century, apparently no one has to take personal responsibility for their actions, and more importantly, they feel that even if they did break or violate the rules that they don't have to face the consequences.

That's pretty much the attitude of of students and parents. Parents said that they feared students would lose valuable athletic scholarships.

What is outrageous to me is how students seemed to think the strip club visits were no big deal.

"Seventeen-year old guys do it all the time," said Desiree Nelson, 16 discussing the matter with her friend Eileen Schelderfer. "They're always at strip clubs. It's not like an abnormal thing." In fact, Ms. Nelson described the strip club outing as a well-known component of the baseball team's spring break trip. "They'd just come back and be like, 'We went to an awesome strip club in Florida. It was so much fun.'

Nicholas DeLuca, 17, who was on the baseball team last year, enjoyed the previous trip to florida, which included a visit to Sassy Merlot's. "What could be so bad about a bunch of girls walking around with no shirts on?"

Some students seemed puzzled that the incident had attracted scruntiny from members of the news media, who lingered outside the school throughout the day. "We don't do stories on like when dirty old men go to strip clubs," said Jillian Communiello, 16, a junior.

This should blow my mind, but sadly it doesn't.

Just yet another example of the outrageous sense of entitlement that teenagers have today, and along with that, the lack of any sort of moral values that they shhow off proudly with no sense of embarassment or shame.

Of course, the lawsuit brought by the parents while no doubt be forthcoming quite soon.

It doesn't speak very well or say much for the parents when they are more outraged that their precious Sal or Nicholas might lose am athletic scholarship, because he broke the rules and was rightfully punished, then they are about the fact that their spoiled brat teenagers broke the rules in the first place.

And the stupidity of the students comments is laughable, especially Jillian Communiello's remark that the media, "...don't do stories on like when dirty old men go to strip clubs."

Gee, why might that be?

Because it isn't illegal for men (which classifies one as an adult) to go to strip clubs, while it is definitely illegal for a 16 year old to go to one.

Fuckin' A.

The mothers of all these kids should have swallowed instead of spreading their legs.
#2
Old 05-11-2003, 06:41 PM
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Well, it's illegal alright. But if a 16 or 17 year old has the desire to look at nekkid women, this constitutes "the lack of any sort of moral values"?

Fuckin' A indeed. I was one hell of an immoral 16 year old, I'll tell you that.
#3
Old 05-11-2003, 06:42 PM
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Young men want to see naked women? This is as shocking as underage drinking!
#4
Old 05-11-2003, 06:45 PM
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God forbid a teenager sees naked breasts....

Sweet Christ, what is so wrong with nudity that it gets this type of reaction?
#5
Old 05-11-2003, 06:47 PM
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FWIW, I cannot recall seeing a 'strip club' in Croatia. If you really wanted to see some breasts, you either turn on the TV or go to the beach...
#6
Old 05-11-2003, 06:50 PM
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[Captain Renault]

I'm shocked....shocked to find there's gambling going on in here!

[/Captain Renault]
#7
Old 05-11-2003, 06:51 PM
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It's normal to go to strip clubs at 17? I wish they'd have let me in!
#8
Old 05-11-2003, 07:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Consuela Bobuela
[Captain Renault]

I'm shocked....shocked to find there's gambling going on in here!

[/Captain Renault]
Your winnings, sir!
#9
Old 05-11-2003, 07:04 PM
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Re: Ahh, yet another tale of cum guzzling asshatted teens and their parents

Quote:
Originally posted by Payton's Servant

And the stupidity of the students comments is laughable, especially Jillian Communiello's remark that the media, "...don't do stories on like when dirty old men go to strip clubs."

Tell that to almost and former Alabama head coach Mike Price.
#10
Old 05-11-2003, 07:22 PM
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Student jocks feeling entitled to getting away with whatever they like? Wow, that's never happened before! Gimme a break.

If the parents feel the same way, then that is outrageous.

Somebody got a linky-poo to the story?
#11
Old 05-11-2003, 07:32 PM
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Re: Ahh, yet another tale of cum guzzling asshatted teens and their parents

Quote:
Originally posted by Payton's Servant
It doesn't speak very well or say much for the parents when they are more outraged that their precious Sal or Nicholas might lose am athletic scholarship, because he broke the rules and was rightfully punished, then they are about the fact that their spoiled brat teenagers broke the rules in the first place.
I think it's unreasonable to take away these children's chances to get a post-secondary education because they went to a strip club. There is nothing "rightful" about that. We don't know the financial situation of these kids and their families, but if they need those scholarships to get their degrees, it is cruel to jeopardize their futures because they made one mistake. I'm not saying that they shouldn't be penalized, because they should, but forcing them to disqualify themselves from their scholarships is too extreme, especially if they can't go to University like them.


Note: IANA American, but in Canada, a Uni degree is pretty much essential to ever earning a living wage (YMMV), and costs an arm and a leg. Dunno how important/expensive Uni degrees are in the States, so I may be blowing this out of proportion.
#12
Old 05-11-2003, 07:33 PM
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...can't go to University without them.

Where the feck was my head when I was typing?
#13
Old 05-11-2003, 07:35 PM
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They got in trouble not just because they went somewhere they could see naked breasts, but because they went some place where alcohol was served. They probably had fake ID's to do this, which means it's possible they could also be going into bars regularly. Just my theory.

I agree, it's crappy that the parent's aren't reading their precious jocky wockys the riot act. I think it's outrageous that teens seem to think they are entitled to these things, even though they are illegal. I see plenty of amoral behavior in this town, and it disturbs me.

I hear plenty more from someone I know, who works with middle school age kids. (They should be from about 11 to 13 or so, but there are 16 year olds in middle school in this town! They told my friend that it's a family tradition to marry their first cousins, that they go out of state to do it! Inbredding, shudder.)

What I don't quite get is why people who hear about these things don't speak out anymore, they just shrug their collective shoulders, and say things like "You expected differently?". I don't get that.

You who do this are giving the parent's license to keep encouraging their kids, and these teens will likely be parent's one day, if they aren't already. They will "kick it up a notch" when they become parents. *Shudder* I'm going to shut up now, I just really scared myself.
#14
Old 05-11-2003, 07:36 PM
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lola, in the US, unless one is an entertainer, born into extreme wealth, a graduate of a vocational school, or works a menial job, a college degree is pretty much required. They can run anywhere from $2,000-$40,000, depending on the caliber of the school you attend and where you live (scholarships not included).
#15
Old 05-11-2003, 07:37 PM
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Here we go. And here. Also here.

Hmm, it seems that a parent took several of the boys to the strip club as well as bought alcohol for them.

I hope this parent sees the inside of a jail.

The only other parent quoted seems to be complaining that his kid, who apparently did nothing wrong, is being punished because the baseball season is not being held. Good point that, but it doesn't sound avoidable.

OK, so we have 15 kids suspended, two coaches suspended. I bet at least one of the coaches get fired eventually. No word on what's going to happen to that scumbag parent. But sounds like a lot of folks are getting punished. So what's the problem?

So where are the comments of the parents defending this behaviour? Nevermind what the kids say, kids say a lot of stupid crap. I don't see one comment in those stories defending the incident.
#16
Old 05-11-2003, 07:37 PM
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That would be $2,000-$40,000 per year.
#17
Old 05-11-2003, 07:40 PM
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At the same time, these kids are old enough to understand the rules, and follow them. They know the penalties for what they do, and they do it anyway, because they feel they are "entitled". They have never been held accountable before, they don't believe they even should be now. I don't feel pity for them. They knew they were breaking the rules, and what they could lose. Let them take some lumps now, maybe they will learn to follow the rules that everyone else has to, and won't end up in prison later on in life.
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Balance...
#18
Old 05-11-2003, 07:47 PM
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So what the hell does cum guzzling have to do with any of this?
#19
Old 05-11-2003, 07:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Zabali_Clawbane
...their precious jocky wockys the riot act...
What the hell is wrong with young athletes? And what other high-school group is it acceptable to mock, Zabali_Clawbane? Those frootloops in band? Those annoying drama-club kids?

I am going to take a wild guess and say that you participated in few, if any, highschool sports. Your loss. But why the unholy fuck would you hold it against those who do?
#20
Old 05-11-2003, 08:02 PM
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Contrary to what you theorize Brutus, I did in fact participate in sposts, track, basketball, volleyball, and cross country. I always got A's in physical education, and got the President's fitness award every year. All of this, on top of the fact that I was diagnosed with Rhuemathoid arthritis when I was nine. (Full diagnosis, Polyarticular Juvenile Rheumathoid Arthritis.) A cross country season lasts 4 months, and coach logged every mile we ran. My last season I ran 589 miles, working out 5 days a week, twice on Mondays.

FTR, I also was a choir frootloop, and a weird art student, and a newspaper copy editor geek, and a drama "queen".

I did not think the world owed me a damn thing, even though our cross country team took top honors for our size bracket at state level competition every year.

I was expressing my contempt at the parents who hand athletes anything they want on a silver platter, just because they can kick a ball, or tackle hard. They should be rewarding good grades, and good citizenship.

Seems like I struck another of your poor frail nerves there Brute. Tsk tsk, you ought to work out to prevent that.
#21
Old 05-11-2003, 08:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Brutus
What the hell is wrong with young athletes? And what other high-school group is it acceptable to mock, Zabali_Clawbane? Those frootloops in band? Those annoying drama-club kids?

I am going to take a wild guess and say that you participated in few, if any, highschool sports. Your loss. But why the unholy fuck would you hold it against those who do?
Female high school juniors? You mock them.

Don't be getting "oh, those persecuted atheletes" on us. Any school group that got caught in a similar situation would have similar consequenses. The stakes may be a little higher only in that athletic scholorships are sweet.

Band members have gotten in trouble before. The Texas Southern University band got in deep doodoo for shoplifting, in Japan, around 1989. Oh, but the jocks are such a reviled group!

It does not matter which ones are acceptable to mock. The ones that you consider unacceptable for mocking DO get mocked.
#22
Old 05-11-2003, 08:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Zabali_Clawbane
...I was expressing my contempt at the parents who hand athletes anything they want on a silver platter, just because they can kick a ball, or tackle hard. They should be rewarding good grades, and good citizenship...
No, you were not. You were expressing contempt for athletes. 'Jocky-wocky' is not a complimentary term. But I suppose athletes are not on the 'protected groups' list, and are fair game.

I seriously doubt you were as involved with sports as you claim to have been. But, being that this is the wild and anonymous internet, we'll never know.
#23
Old 05-11-2003, 08:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Road Rash
Female high school juniors? You mock them...It does not matter which ones are acceptable to mock. The ones that you consider unacceptable for mocking DO get mocked.
If this is a weak attempt at linking this to hazing, well...it remains weak.
#24
Old 05-11-2003, 08:40 PM
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I must agree with the other posters as to the normalcy of young men visiting strip clubs. The guys I went to high school with talked about it every Friday.

If the parents or students in question are protesting their punishment, well, they're idiots. They signed the code of conduct; they knew what it said.

What they should be protesting is the code of conduct itself. What possible impact could a visit to a strip club have on with one's ability to play baseball or represent the team?
#25
Old 05-11-2003, 08:46 PM
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It was mimicking the tone of voice the parents use when speaking of their "talented" offspring. I've heard enough of them in this town, and their voices get sickeningly sweet when the relate tales of "precious jocky wocky".

Are you really going to tell me what my own motivations happen to be? You truly think you are that all knowing? BULLSHIT!!!

Here is a link, to prove that part of what I said really happened. Look at the year 1986, 3A size schools. You will see the last name of Mater, (her first name is Sandra), under the city name of Hoisington. (Not where I currently live btw.) She was on the team my freshman and sophomore years. The last I knew, her record STILL stands, tied, but unbroken all these years later. Now, if that part of what I said is true, don't you think the rest is too? The record was set at state competition. Girls Cross Country Records
#26
Old 05-11-2003, 08:50 PM
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Hmmm, ok I thought it gave times on that page. I know I saw the times, and records set. Back to find the actual record. Sandra Mater does hold the record for 3A size schools in cross country, for the state of Kansas. She also still had some sprinting records on the board the last time I checked.
#27
Old 05-11-2003, 08:57 PM
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The code of ethics contained a stupid rule. The way one gets rid of stupid rules is by being busted under them, then complaining your ass off. These kids were having a good time, and not hurting anyone. Who the fuck cares? Payton's Servant, I suggest you remove the stick from your ass.
#28
Old 05-11-2003, 09:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mr2001
What possible impact could a visit to a strip club have on with one's ability to play baseball or represent the team?
Um, it is illegal. As is underaged drinking . As is a parent taking these kids to to strip bar and getting them served alcohol. And the kids were on a school sponsored trip, so the school is responsible for them and should have something to say about all of this.

You don't have a problem with underaged kids committing illegal acts while under school supervision?

Who's the asshat?
#29
Old 05-11-2003, 09:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by squeegee
Um, it is illegal. As is underaged drinking . As is a parent taking these kids to to strip bar and getting them served alcohol. And the kids were on a school sponsored trip, so the school is responsible for them and should have something to say about all of this.

You don't have a problem with underaged kids committing illegal acts while under school supervision?

Who's the asshat?
The 'illegal' here is 'American Bizarrely Puritanical Morality Laws' illegal, such as 'underage' drinking. Then we have 'Cut people into little peices' illegal, which is not what happened here.

If we were talking about a sexually active gay teen in some states, they would also be breaking the law. Should they be expelled? Punished?
#30
Old 05-11-2003, 09:26 PM
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OK, then Brutus, defender teen liberties, where would you draw the line, if not at underage drinking and underage attendance at strip clubs?

Is it OK for the 14-year-old freshmen to also get blasted and oggle topless women along with the seniors?

Is it OK for the cheerleaders to give hummers in the bleachers for cash? Or only for scholarship points?

What illegal substances is it OK for 17-year-olds to possess? Or Sell?

How about handguns in lockers? Is this for seniors, or only for letter men? Or can the sophmores also possess weapons on campus?

Any of these rules are obviously stupid and bizarre puritan crap, and should probably be disregarded, right?
#31
Old 05-11-2003, 09:28 PM
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Re: The loss of scholarship question:

Those parents are blowin' smoke on that one. Unless this is a very unusual high school baseball team, there will be from zero to two players that earn a baseball scholarship to college. More parents may want aid for their kids, but it's unlikely to be forthcoming. Most baseball scholarships are "partials" anyway: 1/5, 1/4 or in some cases 1/2 of what a full scholarship would be.
The parents have a better chance of getting their kidís college financed through a lawsuit over this than they do an actual baseball scholarship.

FWIW, I went to my first "strip show" at age 14. *shrug* The only big deal I see here is that a parent was involved in helping them out.
#32
Old 05-11-2003, 09:29 PM
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I would have thought that a bunch of blokes who enjoy going to strip clubs would most definitely not be cum-guzzlers.
#33
Old 05-11-2003, 09:36 PM
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Well, maybe... but there are such things as male strip shows too. Did the article specify what gender the strippers were?

::d & r::
#34
Old 05-11-2003, 09:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by squeegee
OK, then Brutus, defender teen liberties, where would you draw the line, if not at underage drinking and underage attendance at strip clubs?
I'd like to field this one, Skip.

Quote:
Is it OK for the 14-year-old freshmen to also get blasted and oggle topless women along with the seniors?
Yes.
Quote:
Is it OK for the cheerleaders to give hummers in the bleachers for cash? Or only for scholarship points?
Hmm, this one is more difficult. Yes, as long as they are blowing fellow students, and are not being pimped. For scholarship points is a tougher scenario, since administrators from colleges are unlikely to be hanging around high school football stadiums.

Quote:
What illegal substances is it OK for 17-year-olds to possess? Or Sell?
Marijuana and alcohol, though I wouldn't recommend they sell either.

Quote:
How about handguns in lockers? Is this for seniors, or only for letter men? Or can the sophmores also possess weapons on campus?
No, that's no good at all, when weapons are involved a good time simply cannot be had by all.

Quote:
Any of these rules are obviously stupid and bizarre puritan crap, and should probably be disregarded, right?
Son, what we have here is a failure to communicate.
#35
Old 05-11-2003, 09:59 PM
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At least this was non-destructive. The year after I finished high school, a group of seniors on the soccer team thought it would be a hoot to ride around town shooting the windshields of parked cars with a BB gun. They hit my car, my mom's car, and about 30 others in the neighborhood.

The parents pleaded with the owners of the damaged cars not to press charges, as it would hurt their pwecious babies chances of getting into college. In particular, one who wouldn't be able to get into West Point if he had a criminal record.

The charges were dropped in exchange for them paying to replace every damaged windshield. I was away at college at the time and didn't hear about any of this until after it was finished and settled, otherwise I might have been willing to pay for the repairs myself in exchange for a day in court.
#36
Old 05-11-2003, 10:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Alereon
The code of ethics contained a stupid rule. The way one gets rid of stupid rules is by being busted under them, then complaining your ass off. These kids were having a good time, and not hurting anyone. Who the fuck cares? Payton's Servant, I suggest you remove the stick from your ass.
You, are an astonishingly stupid Fuck Nugget who obviously has no morals or ethics or manners.

The players violated a specific district code of conduct and a specific athletic code of conduct.

I do not have a stick up my ass.

Tell me, Alereon, how would you feel if you came home and found your 16 year old son having sex with a girl?

Would you give him a standing ovation? Hold up a lighter and yell for an encore? Offer them an after-sex cigarette? Invite the girl to stay for dinner?
#37
Old 05-11-2003, 10:51 PM
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Have a go at her yourself?
#38
Old 05-11-2003, 11:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Payton's Servant
You, are an astonishingly stupid Fuck Nugget who obviously has no morals or ethics or manners.

The players violated a specific district code of conduct and a specific athletic code of conduct.

I do not have a stick up my ass.

Tell me, Alereon, how would you feel if you came home and found your 16 year old son having sex with a girl?

Would you give him a standing ovation? Hold up a lighter and yell for an encore? Offer them an after-sex cigarette? Invite the girl to stay for dinner?
Jack Chick approves of your stand!
#39
Old 05-11-2003, 11:24 PM
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Interesting news item. Since they are children, the parent who arranged this is solely responsible. Punish the parent; slap the kids' wrists (lecture them with shaking jowls) but let them go scott free.

Oh, by the way, I have no morals or ethics either, obviously.
#40
Old 05-11-2003, 11:52 PM
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Given that these young men were, presumably, aware of the code of conduct and aware of the consequences of breaking it, I really don't see that they have any real cause for complaint.

However, as the mother of a 16 year old, I really can't say I'd be over concerned about my son's morals if I found he'd visited a strip club. I might have a talk with him about what was going on in his head about his view of women and healthy relationships with women, but honestly, wanting to go to a strip club is not that unexpected or unhealthy in a 16 or 17 year old boy.

And, specifically addressing Payton's Servant, if I somehow found that my son was having sex, I'd have pretty much the same discussion with him, including some reinforcement on the lessons about safety and responsibility that his father and I have been imparting to him for years, but again, I can't say I'd be overly concerned about his moral state. 16 year olds have sex, and it's not really an abnormal or alarming desire or action.
#41
Old 05-12-2003, 03:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Payton's Servant
Tell me, Alereon, how would you feel if you came home and found your 16 year old son having sex with a girl?
I'd ask him if he'd practised safe sex, if the girl was special to him, and if the answers to both these questions were "yes", then I'd offer him a beer to celebrate.

Your puritan head may explode now.
#42
Old 05-12-2003, 03:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Payton's Servant


Tell me, Alereon, how would you feel if you came home and found your 16 year old son having sex with a girl?

...

A 16 year old having sex! With a girl! The sheer noive of him!
#43
Old 05-12-2003, 04:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Payton's Servant
You, are an astonishingly stupid Fuck Nugget who obviously has no morals or ethics or manners.

The players violated a specific district code of conduct and a specific athletic code of conduct.

I do not have a stick up my ass.

Tell me, Alereon, how would you feel if you came home and found your 16 year old son having sex with a girl?

Would you give him a standing ovation? Hold up a lighter and yell for an encore? Offer them an after-sex cigarette? Invite the girl to stay for dinner?
I would be disappointed with him for capitulating to societal convention and not consummating with his boyfriend as he'd discussed with his therapist, his lesbian minister, and me.

Most of us have ethics. Some of us have and see a value in morals.

You don't have a stick up your ass. No, the whole tree has been shoved up there.

Oh. No ovation, but I would hold up my lighter full flame as I yelled "FREEBIRD!"
#44
Old 05-12-2003, 04:29 AM
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I don't think that, on a moral level, I would oppose my son or daughter going to a strip club. However, I've always been really big on teaching children that actions have consequences.

For instance, if you do something illegal, expect to face the consequence of having to deal with the police and possibly having to face other consequences such as (but not limited to) retribution at school or at home, a loss of future opportunities, and/or a loss of social interaction or esteem. If they are willing to accept those consequences--in other words, if they are doing an MLK to prove that the laws are unjust--then I'm cool with that, and, unless their stance is "it's not RIGHT that I'm not allowed to kill people!" I will support them.

If, however, they do something they know is illegal, get caught, and then bitch and moan about how it isn't their fault, how everyone else does it, how it isn't fair that they're being punished, I will tell them to quit whining. They knew the consequences of their actions. They did it anyway. Sucks to be them. In this case, I'd tell them that while it isn't wrong for him to look at a naked body, it is wrong to break the law and then not expect anything to happen. If he thinks the law is wrong, he should work to change it, not expect to be treated differently.

For instance: I don't think it's wrong or dangerous of me to park in the fire lane for five minutes while I grab something from the school cafeteria. I'm not blocking traffic, and, if something were to happen, I would move my car. However, I know that if I park in the fire lane, I can more or less expect to get a $50+ ticket. Yeah, the police might not come by, or he might let me off, but, if I did get the ticket, I'm sure as fuck not going to be able or willing to pay it. Might as well not park in the fire lane, even though I think it's stupid.
#45
Old 05-12-2003, 05:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Brutus
Young men want to see naked women? This is as shocking as underage drinking!
That has to be the first intelligent thing I have read from Brutus.
#46
Old 05-12-2003, 06:03 AM
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The therapy is making me the smarts, ala Flowers for Algernon...
#47
Old 05-12-2003, 06:31 AM
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Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Back in California.
Posts: 9,237
Like others here, I think that the kids (and parents) are big whiners for acting as if it's beyond unreasonable that they have to face the consequences of their actions. They need to suck it up--they went to the strip club, knew it was against the rules, but they wanted to go anyway. Too late now to change their minds and decide that they aren't willing to face the consequences.

And, if my hypothetical 16-year-old son was caught having sex with a girl, after I stopped shrieking (OK, I hope I'd not do that ), I'd ask him if he's prepared to be a father at age 16. Since no birth control is foolproof, etc. etc., there's always that small possibility that even if they do have safe sex, she could get pregnant. And she may even decide to keep the kid. So, I'd ask him--is he prepared to have to get a full time job, in order to pay for child support? Because I'd make it clear to him--he's not going to get me or anyone else to help him out financially if he finds himself in such a situation.

Once again, I think it's one of those "be prepared to face the consequences" kind of deals.
#48
Old 05-12-2003, 06:39 AM
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Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Missoula, Montana, USA
Posts: 19,832
I, too, am rather intrigued by Brutus's enlightened stand.

Well played.

I completely agree with Angel of the Lord on this stand: Gandhi and King both took responsibility for their actions, and in doing so forced people to see what kind of actions good people were `held responsible for.'

Should it have been a crime to harvest your own salt? No, but it was, and Gandhi took his lumps in a British prison for doing it.

Should it have been illegal to stage peaceful protest against Jim Crow Laws? No, but it was, and King felt the brunt of legal (and extralegal) proceedings against him.

I'm not comparing the magnitudes of the students' actions, or the intent, but I am comparing the kinds of `crimes' they committed: Nudity? We raise hell when healthy teens show an interest in nudity? Truly, we are the heirs of Cotton Mather, and we are chaining ourselves to the outdated, hate-filled notions classically expressed in Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God and contemporarily expressed in the latest Chick Tract. It is a disgrace and an indecency when we cannot look on our own bodies even with the same frankness as Europeans.

They broke the rule, but the rule does not have to break them.
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#49
Old 05-12-2003, 06:47 AM
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Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: uchic's on 77
Posts: 1,017
Nice strawman, people.

Whether or not this behavior is morally acceptable is a completely different issue.

The players signed codes of conduct and violated them. That's basically it. The way that one deals with rules one doesn't agree with is NOT to break them and THEN complain. If they had a problem with the code of conduct, they shouldn't have signed it in the first place. They agreed to follow rules and then decided not to.

There is no "moral" argument, here.
#50
Old 05-12-2003, 06:48 AM
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Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: uchic's on 77
Posts: 1,017
You're comparing teenagers at a strip club to GHANDI??

I think someone needs some perspective...
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