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#1
Old 07-28-2003, 02:16 PM
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I'm trying to figure out the logic of the curse in Pirates, please help me. Spoilers

Here's what I have so far:

1. The Astec gold was cursed because of what Cortez did to the Astecs.
2. Anyone who physically took a gold coin from the box was cursed, including Bootstap Bill. There were 182 coins in the box, but not 182 cursed pirates on the Black Pearl, so obviously, some pirates took more. Those pirates who got none of the coins, were eventually killed off.
3. As soon as the curse was detected (how?) and it was found out that Bootstrap Bill had sent a coin to his son, they sent him to the bottom of the sea.
4. Bootstrap Bill was cursed as well, so he simply got free underwater, somehow, over the ten years, and walked to shore. So Bootstrap Bill is still alive somewhere. Unless he never did get free, and ended up drowning the moment the curse was lifted.
5. In order to lift the curse, each of the pirates had to spill their blood into the box after putting their coins back in.
6. Will Jr. and Jack Sparrow are brothers. This is because Will is only half blooded to lift the curse, another sibling's blood would have been needed to make it full blooded. Jack cut his own hand when he tossed the coin to Will Jr., as did Will Jr, completing the blood need, and lifting the curse. This was all necessary because it was assumed that Bootstrap Bill was dead, and his blood was needed.

What I do not understand, is the very opening scene when Will Jr. was rescued from the ship that the Black Pearl destroyed. What was that all about? Was the Black Pearl hunting him down, and somehow miss him? Or was it a major coincidence that the Black Pearl destroyed his ship, and then sailed away, unsuspecting?
#2
Old 07-28-2003, 02:24 PM
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I did not consider the possibility that Capt. Sparrow and Will were brothers. Considering that Capt. Sparrow COMMANDED the Black Pearl before Barbosa led the mutiny against him... and that Bootstrap Bill was part of that crew... it seems unlikely somehow.

Although this begs the question of why Capt. Sparrow cut his hand.

Me, I was wondering why they needed Bootstrap Bill's blood in particular. Wouldn't the blood of any pirate who stole the gold be more appropriate than one who was penitent? Or, for that matter, the blood of someone who never even took the gold?

And precisely how did the MONKEY get to be undead? Guilt by association? Or did it swipe a coin, too? Like in the sting at the end of the credits?
#3
Old 07-28-2003, 02:28 PM
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Oh, never mind. Called my kid -- the Pirates expert in the household -- and she explained the whole thing.

The "price of blood" had to be paid by EVERYONE who took a coin from the chest. Presumably, every single pirate on the Black Pearl bled into that chest at one point or another...

...except Bootstrap Bill. That was why they needed his son.

Capt. Sparrow cut his hand at the very end before tossing the coin to Will so that he could pay his share, too. After all, he did take a coin...

...and defeating Barbosa and the Pirates at the end of the movie was suddenly VERY dependent on getting rid of that curse.

All of a sudden, it makes sense.

Although I find myself wondering if anyone ever cut the monkey over the treasure chest.

Just to make sure...
#4
Old 07-28-2003, 02:56 PM
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Oh, yeah, Sparrow did take a coin, didn't he. That explains that.

But here's a question, where did the pirates find the original box the first time. Did they stumble upon an island that no one could find, unless you knew where it was?

But what about the beginning flashback scene. What was the Black Pearl's motivation to destroy that ship, and then sail away? What did the viewer just miss?
#5
Old 07-28-2003, 03:08 PM
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There were 882 pieces, not 182.

Jack and Will brothers? Inconceivable!

The other pirates did give a little blood as well, presumably almost 10 years ago. It was quick, but as Barbossa is cheerleading the pirates before cutting Elizabeth, he says something like this: "And who here has paid the blood sacrifice owed to the heathen gods?" "We have!" "And whose blood must still be repaid?" "Hers!"

Jack's compass is presumably how they located the island the first time. Barbossa asked for the location of the treasure, and Jack told him the bearings, and Barbossa mutinied. Will asked where Jack got the compass, and Gibbs told him that not much was known about Jack. So, I'm guessing somebody who had been to Isle de Muerte had charmed a compass and it became a magic artifact that Jack managed to come across in his travels.

In the opening scene, the Black Pearl had attacked Will's ship because they were looking for the Medallion. That's what Elizabeth assumed anyway, and I think it's reasonable.
#6
Old 07-28-2003, 04:33 PM
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At one point in the film, I think Barbarossa said that the coins called to him. That is, if you were a pirate under the curse, you had some sort of sixth sense telling you where the missing treasure was. That was how they recovered all the other coins after all, and how they knew to attack Port Royal (after a few years of searching, of course).
#7
Old 07-28-2003, 04:53 PM
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Oh yeah, they went looking for the Governor's daughter, because she had it. I just wonder why they sailed away so soon after destroying that ship. They hardly had a chance to look for the coin, and what if Will Jr. hadn't have conveniently landed on that piece of wood.

Not that it would've mattered to cursed zombies, but Will Jr. and the coin would've gone to the bottom together.
#8
Old 07-28-2003, 05:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by NameAlreadyTaken
At one point in the film, I think Barbarossa said that the coins called to him. That is, if you were a pirate under the curse, you had some sort of sixth sense telling you where the missing treasure was. That was how they recovered all the other coins after all, and how they knew to attack Port Royal (after a few years of searching, of course).
How the pirates found the coins after they'd stolen them is the only thing that's not entirely clear about the curse. Remember at the beginning, when Elizabeth faints and falls off the cliff, the coin makes some sort of a pulse in the water and causes the winds to shift. That night, the Black Pearl sails into port. Why it did that then, and not any time in the preceding ten years, is unclear. Perhaps it needs to be worn by a living person (when Elizabeth takes it out of her desk, it's clear she hasn't touched it in years: it leaves an outline in the dust in the bottom of the drawer). This would explain why the pirates attacked Will's ship, and why they broke off when Elizabeth took the medallion: the connection was broken, and the Pirates assumed they'd accidentally killed Will. The problem with that it, the medallion doesn't activate as soon as Elizabeth puts it on, it activates when she falls into the ocean and almost drowns. So, perhaps it's either the (near) death of the wearer or the contact with seawater that activated the coin. But if that's the case, how did the pirates know to attack Will's ship in the first place, when he was assumedly neither dying nor immersed in seawater? It could be it was just a coincidence: the Black Pearl was preying on all Merchant-men in the area, and happened to attack the ship carrying Bootstrap's descendent. Seems like a mighty big coincidence, though.

My guess is that the pirates can sense when the coin is being held by someone who owes the blood price: they could "feel" the gold so long as it was held by Will. When Elizabeth took the medallion, the link was broken, and the pirates sailed off. However, whenever anyone who owns one of the medallions but doesn't owe the blood price dies, the coin "pulses" to let the pirates know that one of the coins is up for grabs again.

That's the best I can come up with, anyway. The rest of the curse is pretty solid, especially for this sort of summer popcorn movie, so I assume that the writer had a definite idea about all this that didn't make it into the final edit of the film. Sounds like good DVD material to me.

Quote:
Oh yeah, they went looking for the Governor's daughter, because she had it. I just wonder why they sailed away so soon after destroying that ship. They hardly had a chance to look for the coin, and what if Will Jr. hadn't have conveniently landed on that piece of wood.
One good reason the pirates might have split instead of sticking around to search corpses: while the pirates are immortal and indestructable, the Black Pearl isn't. Fighting the ship Elizabeth and her dad were on, especailly right on the heels of destroying that first ship, might have been enough to send the Black Pearl to the bottom, which would be a major inconvenience for the pirates, if not quite a fatal set-back.
#9
Old 07-28-2003, 08:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Miller
How the pirates found the coins after they'd stolen them is the only thing that's not entirely clear about the curse. Remember at the beginning, when Elizabeth faints and falls off the cliff, the coin makes some sort of a pulse in the water and causes the winds to shift. That night, the Black Pearl sails into port. Why it did that then, and not any time in the preceding ten years, is unclear.
I thought it was clear that the connection was that the coin only called to them in the water. That would explain why they didn't find Will too, despite knowing his father sent him a piece of gold and somehow finding out that he was looking for his father on that ship. Since Will did end up on that convinient piece of wood, keeping the coin dry, they didn't end up finding him despite burning up his ship.

As for #4, I wonder if that will be the subject of the second movie. (the TVguide reported last week that Depp, Bloom etc have already been signed for a sequel) Bootstrap had to have actually taken a coin, and thus be under the curse, if his blood was required to lift it- therefore he couldn't have just gotten a coin from someone else(thus handling it like Will and Elizabeth could without being cursed) like a friend theorized. So it was the first question I had too once the curse was lifted- was Will's dad now drown as soon as the curse lifted? I presume he was still at the bottom of the sea, since he never went looking for Will. That's rather morbid for a disney movie, so he'll probably turn up somewhere alive.
#10
Old 07-28-2003, 08:39 PM
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I don't see why the Black Pearl would have not been as immortal as the crew. This leads into one of my pet peeves of this excellent movie.

Several times in the movie mortal characters, Will, Sparrow, would knowingly and repeatedly take up battle against these immortal foes. Why would they do that? The only option is to lose. That kind of bothered me.

Just because holes were being punched in the Black Pearl didn't mean that it was in danger of sinking. Some of the crew had arms and legs ripped off, only to reattach them again.

I like your suggestion of how the curse worked. I agree with you that I feel that the length of the movie started to become a problem, and a lot of the explaining scenes got cut out.

The ripple and boom in the water? Not sure. It only happened once in the movie. Most other events repeated. But that just happened once, and didn't make sense.

So, do you think Bootstrap is still alive?
#11
Old 07-28-2003, 08:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Chicago Faucet
This leads into one of my pet peeves of this excellent movie.

Several times in the movie mortal characters, Will, Sparrow, would knowingly and repeatedly take up battle against these immortal foes. Why would they do that? The only option is to lose.
I disagree. Recall the melee scene in Port Royal. We see a few of the pirates dispatched.
#12
Old 07-28-2003, 09:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Chicago Faucet
I don't see why the Black Pearl would have not been as immortal as the crew. This leads into one of my pet peeves of this excellent movie.
Well, for one thing the ship is not a living being. It also never personally took any gold out of the chest. On the other hand, it does seem to generate its own fog bank and is the fastest ship in the ocean despite having great, ragged tears in its sails, which seems to indicate a certain supernaturality.

Quote:
Several times in the movie mortal characters, Will, Sparrow, would knowingly and repeatedly take up battle against these immortal foes. Why would they do that? The only option is to lose. That kind of bothered me.
Ah, there's one other option: stand there and get hacked apart. Once the nature of the curse is revealed, Will and Jack spend most of their time trying to avoid fighting the pirates, albeit not very succesfully. It's only at the end, when Jack hatches his plan to lure the pirates into combat with the British navy, that any of the heros seek out a confrontation with the pirates, and then only with the expectation of lifting the curse in the middle of the fight.

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Just because holes were being punched in the Black Pearl didn't mean that it was in danger of sinking. Some of the crew had arms and legs ripped off, only to reattach them again.
Yes, but we never see holes in the Black Pearl magically repairing themselves. Since this would have been an awfully cool visual, I assume the reason we never saw it happen was because the Black Pearl had no such ability.

Quote:
I like your suggestion of how the curse worked. I agree with you that I feel that the length of the movie started to become a problem, and a lot of the explaining scenes got cut out.
Thank you!

Quote:
The ripple and boom in the water? Not sure. It only happened once in the movie. Most other events repeated. But that just happened once, and didn't make sense.

So, do you think Bootstrap is still alive?
Dunno. Really could go either way. I was half expecting him to show up through out the entire movie, especially the second time I saw it, when I waited through the interminable closing credits for the teaser shot at the end. It's was just the stupid monkey, though. Thought that was really lame. Ooh! Undead monkey! Scary! What was the point of that? Setting up the big bad for the sequel?

Achernar: We see a few of the pirates take wounds that ought to be fatal. In fact, the very first pirate we see killed is the one with all the little hand-bombs, and he's back up and walking around by the end of that fight sequence. The movie explicitly establishes that anyone who took gold from the stone chest is unkillable. Heck, Jonathan Pryce hacks off that one pirate's arm, and it keeps after him until the curse is finally lifted. Even that pirate who took a cannonball in the chest is was probably up and running around within ten minutes or so.
#13
Old 07-28-2003, 09:11 PM
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Mm... in the melee in Port Royal towards the beginning, when Elizabeth is captured, we see several pirates dispatched... AND THEN THEY REAPPEAR, later in the same scene! Watch it carefully, and you'll see that. Plainly one can knock 'em down, but they get up again, later.

The gold DOES call to the ghost pirates, as this is how they find Elizabeth when she's hiding in the Governor's Mansion. The pirates themselves explain this. I suspect it's kind of a short range thing, though, and for the ten years the coin sat in Elizabeth's drawer, gathering dust, it apparently wasn't calling real LOUD, if you know what I mean...

...but once in the same house with it, they'd be able to find it, quick enough.

I'm assuming they attacked Young Will's ship specifically to get the coin, and accidentally nailed the powder magazine during the attack. Ship goes BOOM, and the disappointed pirates figure they're screwed, the coin's somewhere at the bottom of the briny deep.

Hell, for all we know, they might have been wandering around on the bottom, LOOKING for it, for that ten years that we blithely skip over at the beginning of the movie, while the coin gathers dust in Elizabeth's boudoir drawer.

Judging from the condition of the Black Pearl throughout most of the movie, I suspect it does not regenerate, the way the undead pirates do. For most of the movie, I was wondering how the hell the Black Pearl could be the fastest ship in the Caribbean with those tattered sails...

Throughout most of the movie, most of our protagonists either fight the pirates when they have no choice, and/or don't know the pirates are undead and immortal. JACK is the one guy, aside from the pirates, who DOES know the truth throughout the entire movie... and he DOES start a fight with Barbosa, knowing full well Barbosa can't be killed... but we also have ample evidence, throughout the movie, that Cap'n Jack Sparrow ain't wrapped too tight. Of course, Cap'n Jack also has a rather clever ace in the hole, too...

Here's a question, though: We know that Bootstrap Bill is cursed, because he took a coin, and sent it to his son.

We know that the pirates chained up Bootstrap and tossed him overboard, where he may well still be.

My first thought is that if Bootstrap is still on the ocean bottom, he's screwed, because the curse is lifted at the end of the movie. He'd become mortal, and immediately drown.

...but WAIT! HE was the only pirate who didn't give some blood to the treasure! His SON did, which allowed the OTHER pirates to lift their curse...

...but Bootstrap Bill never paid the blood price!

Could it be he's the only remaining undead Pirate Of The Caribbean? Sitting at the bottom, waiting for his chains to rust through... and free him?

And could this wind up being in the sequel?

Hmm......
#14
Old 07-28-2003, 09:14 PM
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Quotes from above:
" Several times in the movie mortal characters, Will, Sparrow, would knowingly and repeatedly take up battle against these immortal foes. Why would they do that? The only option is to lose. That kind of bothered me.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Ah, there's one other option: stand there and get hacked apart. Once the nature of the curse is revealed, Will and Jack spend most of their time trying to avoid fighting the pirates, albeit not very succesfully. It's only at the end, when Jack hatches his plan to lure the pirates into combat with the British navy, that any of the heros seek out a confrontation with the pirates, and then only with the expectation of lifting the curse in the middle of the fight. "

Great answer, Miller - and not just because I was thinking it & couldn't get it written coherently
#15
Old 07-28-2003, 09:24 PM
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I know you can't kill the pirates. But that doesn't mean you can't win a fight with one. You could disable him long enough to flee or rescue his captive or steal his treasure or whatever your objective is. Savvy?
#16
Old 07-28-2003, 09:58 PM
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Here's something that's been bothering me, in spite of how much I loved this movie:

It seems to me that Jack Sparrow shot Barobossa just *before* the curse was lifted...the sequence as I recall it is that he shoots Barbossa, then tosses the bloody coins to Will Turner, who then drops them in the chest and the curse is lifted. So...considering that the undead pirates were regularly receiving what would otherwise have been mortal wounds while under the curse with no ill effects, and when the curse was lifted, they all seemed perfectly fine....why did Barbossa's gunshot wound that he received just *before* the curse was lifted kill him?

And here's another question....if all of the cursed pirates are really dead, then why are they all alive again after the curse is lifted? Once the curse is lifted, shouldn't they just be regular dead rather than undead?
#17
Old 07-28-2003, 10:13 PM
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The way that I took the curse was that they were immortal, but miserable. The time that they spent cursed was equal to being lost time for them. They didn't need to eat or drink, nor did they gain pleasure from doing so, they were immortal (undead, as a vampire) until the curse was lifted, then they resumed their ordinary lives. Not die afterwards, although I believe that Barbosa was alluding to the fact that death would be preferrable to their current situation, in one of his monologues. Please don't ask for a cite.
#18
Old 07-28-2003, 10:24 PM
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I don't know about Bootstrap still being cursed. I think that once the curse lifted, it lifted for all of the crew. But there does seem to be a hint of a plot hole there.

Everyone put their gold back in except Bootstrap. It wasn't actually his blood, but his offspring's blood that broke the curse for the crew. How do these factors effect how the curse works?

And, no, it was definitely quick and close, but Sparrow definitely cut himself, then threw the coin, then shot Barbosa. We just have to assume that it all happened just in the nick of time.

"Now bring me that horizon, and some rotten eggs." Fade out.
#19
Old 07-28-2003, 10:28 PM
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Jadis - I think because they never died the first time, only slowly starved/dehydrated, they weren't really dead when the curse lifted. After all, their whole plan depended on them getting the curse lifted so they could enjoy life (apples, women, grog) again, not so they could rest in pieces. As for Barbossa - when he recovered from the curse, the shot was still inside him.

I think the Pearl did suffer from the curse, too. After all, after the battle with the pirates and she was sorely hurt, she was still around to sail to Cap'n Jack's rescue. I didn't notice if, when the moon was shrouded, if her sails and rigging looked whole. Perhaps she only had the tattered look by the moonlight.

StG
#20
Old 07-28-2003, 10:59 PM
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The Black Pearl had tattered sails in the opening scene, which took place during the day.

Additionally, Jack said that after the run-in with the Interceptor, the Pearl was "listing" or some nautical term. It was disabled, at any rate. However, he may have just said this to convince Norrington to go after it.
#21
Old 07-28-2003, 11:09 PM
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I kinda figured the scene where Barbosa was shot was "just in the nick of time," with maybe a little poetic license thrown in there for the fun of it.

The pirates were never actually dead. Cap'n Sparrow begins the movie very much alive and not affected by the curse at all. Later, when he has the chance to sneak a coin from the Aztec hoard, he is later found to be "undead," tatty flesh and bones, when Barbosa skewers him and he staggers into the moonlight. We may presume his curse is lifted when he tosses the bloody coin to William at the climax of the film, before shooting Barbosa.

Captain Barbosa explains the curse at some length to Elizabeth, during the dining room scene. It isn't that they're really dead, but they cannot really feel or experience any sensation while the curse is on them -- they are as dead, as far as sensation goes. I figured this explains Barbosa's obsession with apples, and the conversation between the two pirates on the Pearl when the monkey falls in the water. They do not need to eat, and even if they DO eat, they can't taste food or drink, or gain any nourishment from them.

Barbosa's remark about not being able to feel "a woman's touch" implies that sex is impossible for undead pirates, as well... certainly a wildly major reason for them to want the damn curse lifted!
#22
Old 07-29-2003, 11:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wang-Ka


The gold DOES call to the ghost pirates, as this is how they find Elizabeth when she's hiding in the Governor's Mansion. The pirates themselves explain this. I suspect it's kind of a short range thing, though, and for the ten years the coin sat in Elizabeth's drawer, gathering dust, it apparently wasn't calling real LOUD, if you know what I mean...

I still think the water has something to do with. Like their ablity to sense it was activated only once it was in the ocean water, like turning on a homing beacon, if you will. Since, as you said, it didn't lead them to it while it was safe and dry for years.
#23
Old 07-30-2003, 12:40 AM
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That seems like a safe bet, considering the "ripple" effect that happened when it hit the seawater after Elizabeth fell off the cliff...
#24
Old 07-30-2003, 08:47 AM
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Damn, am I the only one who had no idea the ripple and boom thing when Elizabeth hit the weater was related to the coin?

I thought it was some way of suggesting the Pearl was nearby.
#25
Old 07-30-2003, 09:13 AM
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Elizabeth: "I'm going to toss this coin into the water!"

Pirates: "Oh nooo!"

What, did they forget that they couldn't drown?
#26
Old 07-30-2003, 09:59 AM
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They were probably more worried they wouldn't be able to find it... Which doesn't make a lot of sense, either, since it would "call out" to them.
#27
Old 07-30-2003, 10:19 AM
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My take on Barbarosa's death by gunshot: his wond hadn't had time to mystically heal before the last coin was dropped in the chest. Also we can assume the shot was still lodged in his heart when the curse was lifted.

Also, is it just me or was it not the coolest when they shoved the Holy Pirate Hand Grenade into the cursed pirate's stomach, then shoved hiim out of the moonlight so he couldn't get to it again. Wonderful bit of ingenuity.

Could someone please explain the plan at the end though. I know Capt. Jack wanted to get the pirates to fight the Navy and then lift the curse so that they could then be killed. But how exactly did Jack set that up? It never was really clear to me what Capt. Jack told the Commodore the plan was, and what he actually expected the Commodore to do. The Commodore told his mate that he wasn't going to follow Jack's plan because it was Jack's plan, but it appeared to me that he did it anyway. Were they supposed to stay on the ship and have the pirates come to them, rather than separate the crew and lose good men? That being the case, was Jack not trying to trick anyone in the first place?
#28
Old 07-30-2003, 10:28 AM
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No.

Jack's plan involved the soldiers being on the SHIP.

The Commodore decided to have the men on the PINNACES, waiting for the pirates to come out of the cave, because he didn't trust Jack.

Meanwhile, the pirates did their underwater march, and took the SHIP.

This led to the soldiers then having to row back, get shot at, board the ship under fire, and fight like hell, never realizing their opponents can't be killed...

...until Jack and Will lifted the curse in mid-battle. Whoopsie.

Kn*ckers makes an excellent point, though... why were the pirates so terrified that Elizabeth was going to heave the coin overboard? They could just hop over and wander around on the bottom until they found it. It did "call to them," after all.

Maybe they saw Captain Barbosa was having a little fun with the naive wench ("I am disinclined to acquiesce to your request,") and decided to play along. They all sure seemed to have a sense of humor. An EVIL sense of humor, but a sense of humor nonetheless...
#29
Old 07-30-2003, 03:17 PM
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It was just a reflex when they were ready to jump for the medallion.

However, they came to Port Royal for two things, the medallion and young Turner. Remember that they only agreed to leave after they found out that they already had both those things. So the deal they struck was not out of desperation to get the medallion, but because they were going to leave anyway.
#30
Old 07-31-2003, 01:17 AM
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I just thought of something else cool.

When Jack fights and kills Barbossa at the end, he's technically serving under the command of Commodore Barbossa, as part of their accord, right? Would this mean that Jack is now guilty of mutiny as well? Making them even, I suppose.
#31
Old 07-31-2003, 02:30 AM
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The gold only calls to the cursed pirates when it's in the water; the bit about it calling to them when they were looking for Elizabeth in the house was just a bluff -- they saw from the folded-over corner of the rug that she was in the closet.
#32
Old 07-31-2003, 09:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Gunslinger
The gold only calls to the cursed pirates when it's in the water; the bit about it calling to them when they were looking for Elizabeth in the house was just a bluff -- they saw from the folded-over corner of the rug that she was in the closet.
I disagree. By this logic all 882 coins would have had to end up in the water for the pirates to find them. This doesn't seem very probable. I think the underwater boom was just a cool thing to stick in, and mark a point at which things suddenly became ominous. I also think that it was a little confusing.
I think that the turned over rug corner was shown for the audience's benefit. We didn't know where Elizabeth went, and don't have the ability to sense the gold. So the filmmakers had to show us where she was, so that the actions of the pirates would make sense. Otherwise it would just look like they were walking towards a blank wall.
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#33
Old 07-31-2003, 02:04 PM
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Not necessarily did all 882 coins have to hit the water. If they gave away, say arbitrarily, only 25 of them before they realized what the curse was all about, they would only have to collect those 25 coins back. The other 857 would not have been taken out of the box, presumably. It took them ten years to get all of the coins back, so that is a lot of time to devote to one mission.

Can you Ulysses?

I have to agree with the first person that suggested this theory (coins hit water, causes a rippling signal that calls to the cursed). I had not thought of it myself, and it seems to fit.

But I wonder if the water has to be sea water. What if the person just took a shower with the coin around their neck? Would that cause the same ripple?

It's just damn fortunate that Will Jr. didn't fall into the water in the opening scene, or it would have been a very short movie.

But how did the pirates find out about the curse in the first place. It's not like Cortez was around to warn them. Unless there was some sort of cursed/immortal Guardian Of The Coins, such as in the last Indiana Jones, who warned the pirates, that the viewer did not see. I guess this point is not really all that important, it is a movie afterall. The important part is that they did find out about the curse.

I'm still wondering if there was a purpose for Jack Sparrow's "broken" compass. Someone here suggested that it was a charmed compass that guided the way to the island, but it always pointed in the same direction.

Damn, there HAS to be a sequel to explain all of this stuff.
#34
Old 07-31-2003, 02:56 PM
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Quote:
The pirates were never actually dead. Cap'n Sparrow begins the movie very much alive and not affected by the curse at all. Later, when he has the chance to sneak a coin from the Aztec hoard, he is later found to be "undead," tatty flesh and bones, when Barbosa skewers him and he staggers into the moonlight. We may presume his curse is lifted when he tosses the bloody coin to William at the climax of the film, before shooting Barbosa.
Sparrow, if you recall, wasn't under the curse until after he snuck the coin out of the box. Given Barbossa's reaction, apparently, you have to do more than simply pick one up and toss it right back in.

Quote:
Captain Barbosa explains the curse at some length to Elizabeth, during the dining room scene. It isn't that they're really dead, but they cannot really feel or experience any sensation while the curse is on them -- they are as dead, as far as sensation goes. I figured this explains Barbosa's obsession with apples, and the conversation between the two pirates on the Pearl when the monkey falls in the water. They do not need to eat, and even if they DO eat, they can't taste food or drink, or gain any nourishment from them.
They are quite half-dead. Theya ren't all dead, but they aren't all alive, either. The advantage is that they cannot die. The downside is that they take no pleasure in life. They get no nourishment from food or taste from it either. Its a living hell that cannot end. They can't die, but they aren't alive, either.
#35
Old 02-24-2004, 01:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smiling bandit
They are quite half-dead. ......The downside is that they take no pleasure in life. ....... Its a living hell that cannot end. They can't die, but they aren't alive, either.
Sounds EXACTLY LIKE the last job I had! So why should these pirates have it any better than the rest of us working stiffs! I think it would be pretty cool to walk around the bottom of the ocean.

Wife and I watched this movie last night. Seems like a whole hell of a lot of people died because of Elizabeth's corset. If I was the Commodore, I would have hung her, Turner, Sparrow and her poncy dad, too! Then, it would be off to the island to collect the booty!

Did anyone catch the sexual innuendo at the end when the pirate girl tells Sparrow that the "black pearl" is his? Black pearl, indeed! ;D
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#36
Old 02-24-2004, 03:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicago Faucet
But how did the pirates find out about the curse in the first place. It's not like Cortez was around to warn them. Unless there was some sort of cursed/immortal Guardian Of The Coins, such as in the last Indiana Jones, who warned the pirates, that the viewer did not see. I guess this point is not really all that important, it is a movie afterall. The important part is that they did find out about the curse.

I'm still wondering if there was a purpose for Jack Sparrow's "broken" compass. Someone here suggested that it was a charmed compass that guided the way to the island, but it always pointed in the same direction.
Someone on this thread states that the details of the curse were engraved on the chest in Aztec, and that the pirates didn't bother to try and read it until they realized that something strange was happening. No explanation, though, as to where they managed to dig up someone who could read Aztec.

As to the compass, it doesn't always point in the same direction. Norrington just says that it doesn't point north.
#37
Old 02-24-2004, 03:30 PM
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I wondered about Barbosa's wound, too. My first thought was that the mortal wound remained, and killed him when he became mortal again. But cursed-Jack was mortally wounded, too, earlier in the battle, and it didn't seem to do much harm to him. My current best guess is that wounds are repaired when a cursed man is exposed to moonlight and returns, since you can't exactly have a mortal wound in a skeleton. Hence: Jack gets that spear through him, he has a wound. He backs into moonlight, and turns into a skeleton. Being a skeleton, he can't have a spear wound. He removes the spear, and steps back into the shadow, whole. But Barbosa was in shadow the whole time, so his wound remained.

And the curse was definitely lifted after the shot, not before. Jack shoots Barbosa. Barbosa says "I can't believe you wasted your one shot". Cut to Will, standing over the chest: "He didn't waste it". Glint of falling gold, clink as last two coins hit the others. Barbosa gets a pained look on his face, starts bleeding, and collapses.

As for the call of the gold, I think that the simplest explanation is that it calls to them whenever it's in contact with or on the person of a living soul, but that the call is stronger when that person is under stress of some sort. So at the beginning, they find Will's ship, and as the pirate vessel gets closer, Will (and everyone else on the ship) starts getting nervous. The gold calls stronger, until the pirates are able to home in on it. Once Will is rescued, he's a lot calmer, and when Elizabeth takes the gold from him, she's not worried at all, so the gold quiets down, and the pirates temporarily lose the scent, so to speak. But when Elizabeth falls off the cliff (right after being proposed to, to boot: How's that for stress?), the gold calls out much more loudly for a moment, loudly enough that the pirates can sense it from many miles away. So they come raid Port Royal, and when they reach the Governor's mansion, they can sense the gold again (and so can find her in the closet).
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#38
Old 02-25-2004, 12:11 AM
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It seemed quite plain to me that the gold sent out its call to the cursed pirates when it hit the water, and it didn't call elsewhere. I would imagine that hitting the sea, rather than just any water, is what is significant. As for how they found Will's ship when he was a child, the gold could have called to them and then they tracked it to Will's ship. Just because we don't see child Will swimming and sending out a homing beacon ping doesn't make it implausible.
#39
Old 02-25-2004, 01:22 AM
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The idea of the gold calling to the pirates when - and only when - it's in the water doesn't necessarily contradict the fact that they had to track down 882 pieces of gold, not all of which would have ended up in the ocean.

1. How do we know they spent all 882 pieces? That much gold is a LOT of money, and even as spendthrift as pirates are, they might not have spent ALL of it before they realized they were cursed. In fact, I think they'd've started to figure it out pretty quickly, even if they didn't see themselves in moonlight... suddenly EVERY GUY ON THE SHIP has lost his sense of taste and is suffering erectile disfunction... so maybe they still had some in the hold.

2. Once they did find out, depending on how soon it was, they may have remembered where they spent it and gone back and slit the innkeep's throat for the swag, etc.

3. They're pirates. They steal stuff from people anyway. For the past ten years they've been the scourge of the sea, taking out every single ship they possibly can - their holds are burstin' with swag - they're stealing EVERYTHING in hopes of finding the things they are really looking for. I don't think it would've taken them ten years to track down what they'd spent if they could find it with magic.

Also, in the Elizabeth-hides-in-the-closet scene, Pintel very obviously looks at the folded-back rug, and only THEN starts saying "the gold calls to us." Ragetti looks confused for a moment, starts to say something, Pintel gives him a conspiratorial look, Ragetti gets it and starts chuckling. I think Pintel was trying to freak Elizabeth out. If the gold really called to 'em, why wouldn't Ragetti have picked up on it too? His first thought was the open window; he should've known she hadn't jumped out if he had some sort of supernatural attachment to her proto-Goth necklace.

Also, Bootstrap is NOT still cursed; the curse wouldn't have been lifted until EVERYONE's blood was repaid, or all the pirates on the ship would have been un-cursed as soon as they pricked their thumbs over the Aztec chest. Will's blood was close enough for sympathetic magic, so EVERYBODY who was affected by the curse got free of it, including Bootstrap - wherever he may be.

Captain Jack Sparrow was only affected by the curse for the climactic battle scene of the movie. He was affected because he stole a coin. This was obvious to me when I saw it; they show him palming it, the audience is supposed to realize this. Barbossa isn't privy to the palming of the coin, so of course he's surprised to see Jack turn into a skeleton. Jack wasn't quite sure of the details of the curse, so he was surprised himself to find that he was instantly transformed into a rotting corpse. When it was appropriate, he cut his own hand, got his blood on the gold, and then got the blood AND the gold into the chest - thus paying his own blood penalty, and helping relieve the curse from everyone. In order to be cursed yourself, you had to actually remove the gold from the chest, which is why Elizabeth, Will, and countless shopkeeps and innkeepers in Tortuga aren't zombified.
#40
Old 02-25-2004, 09:18 AM
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Quote:
Also, in the Elizabeth-hides-in-the-closet scene, Pintel very obviously looks at the folded-back rug, and only THEN starts saying "the gold calls to us." Ragetti looks confused for a moment, starts to say something, Pintel gives him a conspiratorial look, Ragetti gets it and starts chuckling. I think Pintel was trying to freak Elizabeth out. If the gold really called to 'em, why wouldn't Ragetti have picked up on it too? His first thought was the open window; he should've known she hadn't jumped out if he had some sort of supernatural attachment to her proto-Goth necklace.
Although they can, of course, track it if the gold comes into contact with the sea.
#41
Old 02-25-2004, 09:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kizarvexius
Someone on this thread states that the details of the curse were engraved on the chest in Aztec, and that the pirates didn't bother to try and read it until they realized that something strange was happening. No explanation, though, as to where they managed to dig up someone who could read Aztec.
The details of the lifting of the curse were engraved on the chest. The fact that there was a curse was known all along, presumably that information came with the compass. It was just that the pirates didn't believe in the curse. Why should they? If you have a lot of money, of course you're going to say you've got bodyguards with the eyes of hawks and booby traps and curses. It's only as the curse affects them that they begin to "believe in ghost stories."

(I think Jack says he didn't believe in the curse when on the island with Miss Turner, but I haven't a quote.)
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