#1
Old 05-15-2004, 03:50 PM
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Word Origin: "euchre"

This is a card game rather popular in mid-eastern canada. I have yet to meet a french-canadian who doesn't play it, yet no one seems to know what it means.

help.
#2
Old 05-15-2004, 03:57 PM
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The OED doesn't know:

Quote:
Of uncertain etymology.
As BOWER n.8, one of the terms used in this game, is of Ger. origin, it has often been supposed that the word euchre is also from German, but no probable source has been found in that lang. Can it be a. Sp. yuca, in the phrase ser yuca, given by Caballero as an American expression for ‘to be cock of the walk, to get the best in anything’ (ser el gallito en alguna cosa, sobresalir en algo)
#3
Old 05-15-2004, 04:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobT
The OED doesn't know:
Damn. Beat me to it.
#4
Old 05-15-2004, 05:15 PM
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"One explanation of the word Euchre itself describes it as a sort of Germanic mispronunciation of Joker. Others range from the implausible to the improbable."

from "The penguin book of card games", by David Parlett, published 1979, page 122

I think I remember that Mr. Parlett may have gone into slightly more detail in his book focusing on four-person card games in particular, but I can't figure out where I left that one. (Quite an authority on card diversions of all sorts, especially any that have ever been played in the british isles.)

And if you're wondering why euchre would be named after the joker when the joker isn't even in play... then you're playing it about a hundred years too late. (Originally the jester was the Best Bower in play, overtrumping even the familiar jacks of color, the left and right bowers, but he got benched when the game got streamlined.)
#5
Old 05-15-2004, 06:29 PM
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I just want to needlessly interject that euchre is exceptionally popular in Michigan. Back in my Army days, I always knew who else was from Michigan whenever I'd encounter them playing euchre.
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#6
Old 05-15-2004, 07:36 PM
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While there is currently no clue as to where the word Euchre came from, the game is strictly US and traced back in print to 1841.
#7
Old 05-15-2004, 09:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Balthisar
I just want to needlessly interject that euchre is exceptionally popular in Michigan. Back in my Army days, I always knew who else was from Michigan whenever I'd encounter them playing euchre.
I'm from Michigan and agree. It's popular here. I thought it was fairly popular elsewhere; isn't there a Poirot novel where he solves the murder by studying the Euchre playing?
#8
Old 05-15-2004, 09:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Balthisar
I just want to needlessly interject that euchre is exceptionally popular in Michigan. Back in my Army days, I always knew who else was from Michigan whenever I'd encounter them playing euchre.
Certainly not just Michigan... I'd say "Midwest in general"... I learned it at Indiana U, and everyone there seemed to know the game.
Except for the music majors...
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#9
Old 05-15-2004, 10:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samclem
While there is currently no clue as to where the word Euchre came from, the game is strictly US and traced back in print to 1841.
Funny how a "strictly US" game is "popular in mid-Eastern Canada", as stated in the OP.

A quick Google search turns up this site, stating:

Quote:
Euchre was probably derived from the game Jucker which was formerly played in Alsace. Euchre reached the USA in the early nineteenth century and was the original game for which the Joker was introduced into the playing-card pack in the 1850s (to serve as the highest trump). It has already been mentioned that Euchre is popular in the US Navy, and it may be through this maritime connection that it travelled in the later nineteenth century from America to other English speaking parts of the world. Certainly in Britain it is mainly found in regions where there has been a strong Naval influence.
And many others stating pretty much the same thing, so one can't even say it's strictly US in origin.
#10
Old 05-15-2004, 10:27 PM
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All the steelworkers in Pittsburgh play. I've been playing since I was a teenager.
#11
Old 05-15-2004, 11:06 PM
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Incidentally, Euchre is responsible for the joker's inclusion in our modern deck of cards.
#12
Old 05-15-2004, 11:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathochist
Funny how a "strictly US" game is "popular in mid-Eastern Canada", as stated in the OP.

A quick Google search turns up this site, stating:



And many others stating pretty much the same thing, so one can't even say it's strictly US in origin.
I should have said that the game is almost certainly US in origin. That is what the OED says. You can quote websites that suggest that the game came from Alsace and a game called "jucker", but what you need to do is show a website that can offer some proof of this. I couldn't find one. They all seem to copy off of each other.
#13
Old 05-16-2004, 07:15 AM
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I'm in Ohio, and not being able to play euchre can be a serious handicap to your social life here.

I once stumbled across a Mark Twain story about a man who cheated at euchre.
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#14
Old 05-16-2004, 07:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samclem
I should have said that the game is almost certainly US in origin. That is what the OED says. You can quote websites that suggest that the game came from Alsace and a game called "jucker", but what you need to do is show a website that can offer some proof of this. I couldn't find one. They all seem to copy off of each other.
I think the entent of Matho's post was not about the game's origin, but to counter the claim that it was played exclusively in the midwestern US. Several people have testified from personal experience to its popularity in eastern mainland canada. Is there anyone from britain who can offer similar testimony??
#15
Old 05-16-2004, 01:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samclem
I should have said that the game is almost certainly US in origin. That is what the OED says. You can quote websites that suggest that the game came from Alsace and a game called "jucker", but what you need to do is show a website that can offer some proof of this. I couldn't find one. They all seem to copy off of each other.
Well, "According to Hoyle" (or at least the copy of Hoyle's in the university library) euchre qua euchre originated in the Pennsylvania Dutch country. In that sense I suppose it originated in the US, but to me it lends quite a bit of credence to an Alsace pedigree. I wouldn't say euchre is "strictly US" any more than I would say American Football is "strictly US" in origin, deriving as it did from older games in Britain.
#16
Old 05-16-2004, 02:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathochist
Well, "According to Hoyle" (or at least the copy of Hoyle's in the university library) euchre qua euchre originated in the Pennsylvania Dutch country. In that sense I suppose it originated in the US, but to me it lends quite a bit of credence to an Alsace pedigree. I wouldn't say euchre is "strictly US" any more than I would say American Football is "strictly US" in origin, deriving as it did from older games in Britain.
If you would, does that copy of "Hoyle" cite any evidence that the game originated in the "Pennsylvania Dutch country." Not saying it didn't, just would like to know how I can find out where that snippet came from originally.

Finding original cites, footnotes, etc, is the key.


I'm quite sure that the game, which is first cited in print from the 1840's, was widely popular in the Northern Mid-US and Canada. And still is. IT quite possibly originated in Britain.

I never heard of it until I moved to Ohio in 1971. Everyone here knows it as a child. I didn't ever hear of it in Virginia/North Carolina in the 1950's/60's.

I'm just looking for a print cite that would help tie it to somewhere other than the US in the first half of the 19th century or before.
#17
Old 05-16-2004, 02:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samclem
If you would, does that copy of "Hoyle" cite any evidence that the game originated in the "Pennsylvania Dutch country." Not saying it didn't, just would like to know how I can find out where that snippet came from originally. Finding original cites, footnotes, etc, is the key.

I'm just looking for a print cite that would help tie it to somewhere other than the US in the first half of the 19th century or before.
Unfortunately, I don't recall specifically offhand, and the copy was noncirculating. Hoyle specializes in rules more than history, so it's not really the kind of thing that comes with footnotes.

Then again, I'm astonished a Doper hasn't heard of Hoyle's Rules of Games, especially as "according to Hoyle" has become synonymous with authority on card games and, by generalization, in any field. To note the OED:
Quote:
The name of Edmond Hoyle (1672-1769), author of several works on card-games (the earliest, on whist, dated 1742): often cited typically for an authority on card-playing.
Phr. according to Hoyle, according to the highest authority, in accordance with strict rules.

1906 ‘O. HENRY’ Four Million (1916) 14 The financial loss of a dollar sixty-five, all so far fulfilled according to Hoyle.
1945 A. A. OSTROW Compl. Card Player p. vii, It has been the custom to call books of rules on card and board games ‘Hoyles’, so that ‘according to Hoyle’ has come to mean ‘according to accepted rules’.
1962 R. BARKER Clue for Murder v. 38 This one [sc. murder]'s right out of the book -- strictly according to Hoyle.
1965 J. M. CAIN Magician's Wife (1966) xix. 147, I want our marriage to be strictly on the beam -- the way it is in the books, absolutely according to Hoyle.
1971 Melody Maker 21 Aug. 34/7 If everything goes according to Hoyle, I'll go into semi-retirement there.
Maybe we should start saying "According to Cece".
#18
Old 05-16-2004, 04:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathochist
Unfortunately, I don't recall specifically offhand, and the copy was noncirculating. Hoyle specializes in rules more than history, so it's not really the kind of thing that comes with footnotes.

Then again, I'm astonished a Doper hasn't heard of Hoyle's Rules of Games, especially as "according to Hoyle" has become synonymous with authority on card games and, by generalization, in any field.
If you mean than I haven't heard of Hoyle, that would be incorrect. You were born in 1979. I was born in 1944. I perhaps knew of Hoyle a bit before you. It's just that Hoyle forgot to include euchre in some of his early editions.

I can also access and copy/paste quotes from the OED to the site, as I often do.

What you need to do to help the discussion is provide a cite which pre-dates the 1846 entry in the OED(1841 in the Merriam-Webster 11th Collegiate--I'm not sure where their cite is from, but I'll email Joanne Despres and find out).

If you can provide any contemporary(1800-1860) cites that indicates the game was European in origin, that would help.
#19
Old 05-17-2004, 11:01 AM
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When I first started reading this thread, I got to wondering -- just what IS euchre? I had heard of the game, but I've never seen it played in either Louisiana or Mississippi.

I Googled the rules, and see that euchre is basically spades played with the 2-8 of each suit left out of the deck. With each player holding five cards, euchre is very much like sped-up spades, except the trump suit is determined round by round. Also, in versions of spades I've played, two jokers are tacked on to the top of the trump suit (viz spades), which simulates the use in euchre of common-colored jacks as the "bosses" of the trump suit.

There's a related card game played in rural Louisiana (and perhaps elsewhere) which is even more similar to euchre than spades is -- the game of Pedro. Instead of common-colored jacks being the trump bosses, common-colored fives (the Pedros) rule in Pedro. Unlike euchre, in Pedro, the entire 52-card deck is dealt out.

....

So anyway, where is the "euchre line"? We've got an attestation of euchre being common at the Univ of Indiana. Is euchre played in Kentucky? Any further south?
#20
Old 05-17-2004, 11:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bordelond
When I first started reading this thread, I got to wondering -- just what IS euchre? I had heard of the game, but I've never seen it played in either Louisiana or Mississippi.

I Googled the rules, and see that euchre is basically spades played with the 2-8 of each suit left out of the deck. With each player holding five cards, euchre is very much like sped-up spades, except the trump suit is determined round by round. Also, in versions of spades I've played, two jokers are tacked on to the top of the trump suit (viz spades), which simulates the use in euchre of common-colored jacks as the "bosses" of the trump suit.

There's a related card game played in rural Louisiana (and perhaps elsewhere) which is even more similar to euchre than spades is -- the game of Pedro. Instead of common-colored jacks being the trump bosses, common-colored fives (the Pedros) rule in Pedro. Unlike euchre, in Pedro, the entire 52-card deck is dealt out.

....

So anyway, where is the "euchre line"? We've got an attestation of euchre being common at the Univ of Indiana. Is euchre played in Kentucky? Any further south?
Hmmm... sounds like you've got a fairly good understanding of the rules of euchre, except for perhaps the scoring system - I'm not certain what scoring is involved in spades.

In euchre, the most important detail of scoring is to do with making three out of the five tricks... if the side that has made trumps can do this, they score a single point. If the opponents make three and thus prevent the makers from getting three, the opponents have 'euchre-d' the makers and score two points.

If the makers manage to capture all five tricks, they score two points, and if a single player, making trump is confident in making all five tricks by himself, he can 'go it alone' (instruct his partner to fold up his cards and go it alone,) and if he takes all five it is worth four points to his side. (I've heard of variations where a defender can also 'go it alone' against a solo maker, scoring four points for the euchre.)

Games are typically played up to ten points, with one player from each side keeping score using the two fives of a particular color (not used in play,) and using intricate patterns to display the score as the number of pips showing on the cards. (For instance, to indicate 'two', I might put the five of hearts face-down, crosswise on top of the two of diamonds so that two diamond pips show at the top of the card, but not the diamond pip in the center.)

In general, it's a fast and fun game with a decent opportunity for skill and a large element of chance in how the cards happen to deal out over any particular game. Sometimes you just can't hold a bower to save your life.

(BTW that reminds me. For anyone here who watches the show 24... anyone else suspect a euchre joke in the naming of Kiefer Sutherland's character -- Jack Bauer, with the last name pronounced Bower? )
#21
Old 05-17-2004, 11:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bordelond
....

So anyway, where is the "euchre line"? We've got an attestation of euchre being common at the Univ of Indiana. Is euchre played in Kentucky? Any further south?
Most of my fraternity brothers at Eastern Kentucky University played it all the time.
#22
Old 05-17-2004, 11:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisk
... anyone else suspect a euchre joke in the naming of Kiefer Sutherland's character -- Jack Bauer, with the last name pronounced Bower? )
Certainly possible, especially since "bower" is an anglicization of, and was derived from, the German word for farmer, which is "Bauer."
#23
Old 05-17-2004, 11:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Moto
All the steelworkers in Pittsburgh play. I've been playing since I was a teenager.
Are there still steelworkers left in Pittsburgh?
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#24
Old 05-17-2004, 12:02 PM
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Regarding the geographical distribution of the popularity of Euchre, it was extremely popular in my hometown of Madison, Wisconsin. When I graduated from college and moved to Milwaukee I was shocked to find that no one played Euchre. They all played this impossible to understand game of Sheepshead. My new acquaintenaces claimed that if I could play Euchre, I could quickly learn Sheepshead. They were wrong.

I believe its popularity is due to the very large German population here in Milwaukee. The actual name of the game is Schafkopf (umlauts omitted cuz I'm lazy).
#25
Old 05-17-2004, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisk
Hmmm... sounds like you've got a fairly good understanding of the rules of euchre, except for perhaps the scoring system - I'm not certain what scoring is involved in spades.
In versions of spades with which I am familiar, scoring is dependent on accurate bidding after the deal. Underbidding is a lesser pitfall than overbidding, but it's a pitfall nevertheless.

Let's say team A bids 7 books and team B bids 6 books (books = tricks). After all 13 books have been played, say team A won 9 books, leaving team B with the other 4.

- Team A would gain 72 points this round. The 7 books they bid and made gives them 70, and the two "overs" they made tacks on 2 points.

- Team B would subtract 60 points from their score for bidding and failing to make 6 books.

The two overs that team A made are significant. Once a team accumulates 10 overs, they subtract 100 points from their score. A team that is significantly behind will often try to make their opponents win extra books (aka "sandbagging" or "skating"), in hopes of forcing a -100 penalty.

Spades games are usually played to 300, 500, or 1000 points.
#26
Old 05-17-2004, 12:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor
Are there still steelworkers left in Pittsburgh?

Depends what you mean by "Pittsburgh".

While there are coke works and corporate activities related to the manufacture of steel within the city limits, no actual steelmaking is currently done in Pittsburgh.

However, quite a bit of steelmaking is still done in Allegheny County, of which Pittsburgh is the county seat. My brother works at the steel coil line at Irvin Works in West Mifflin. My father recently retired from the Edgar Thompson Works in Braddock, which is a slab making facility. My grandfather and several uncles worked at the Clairton coke works. My father also worked here for about twenty-five years before moving to the Edgar Thompson facility. Clairton is still a working mill.

There are also specialty steel operations in Homestead. I believe both South Korean and Italian steel companies have plants there.

Steel is still a major Pittsburgh-area industry and employer, amazingly enough.
#27
Old 05-17-2004, 12:23 PM
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A few things about how we played it:

The dealer would deal each player 5 cards in 2 rounds -- first he would give each player between 1 to 4 cards (sometimes only 2 or 3 were allowed, especially in tournaments) and on the 2nd round would give each player enough for them to have 5 cards (i.e. the difference between 5 and what they got the first time). This was at the dealer's discression.
Example: Dealer deals 4 to the player to his left, then 3, 2, and 1 (the 1 to himself). On the next round he would have to deal 1, 2, 3 and 4.
Couple that with the fact that there are only 24 cards, and stacking the deck is fairly easy. With us, at least, cheating was pretty much expected.

Anybody else deal and/or play this way?

"If you ain't cheating, you ain't trying." Stacking the deck was generally considered a talent to appreciate, 'pause-passing' by the dealer's partner was common (you could practically use a timer to determine exactly how good his hand was in the suit that was up), hand signals (e.g. rubbing your ring finger to indicate being good in diamonds) were less common.
We used a 6 and a 4 for keeping score, and 'Sprouting points' was one of the most low-class ways to cheat.

When I got to college, my brother taught me how to play the game, and then he taught me how to stack the deck. I don't know if he learned how to play at college or in the Army. I'll have to remember to ask him.
#28
Old 05-17-2004, 12:36 PM
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I always guessed that Euchre was related to bridge and whist and such games. Since these games all have the concept of trump and tricks, the first part of the play involves bidding or something to decide what is trump, and since people play as partners.

(As for point keeping in Euchre, the old timers around here (Ontario) use a 2 and a 3 in various positions to keep score. Despite playing Euchre since 1977, I don't play it often enough to use 2 and 3 ... I feel like a novice using 5's)
#29
Old 05-17-2004, 01:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amethyst
I always guessed that Euchre was related to bridge and whist and such games. Since these games all have the concept of trump and tricks, the first part of the play involves bidding or something to decide what is trump, and since people play as partners.
I think the same is true of spades's ultimate origin.

One thing to note: it is possible to play spades without partners. When you have five or more players, fewer cards are dealt to each player, and everyone bids for themselves.

Can euchre be played this way?
#30
Old 05-17-2004, 02:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amethyst
As for point keeping in Euchre, the old timers around here (Ontario) use a 2 and a 3 in various positions to keep score.
I'm so glad to hear someone else mention keeping score with a 2 and a 3! That's the way I learned when my great-grandparents taught me (in Michigan). Just about everyone I play with now looks at me funny if I pull them out instead of the 5's.
#31
Old 05-17-2004, 02:41 PM
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I humbly submit this thread for your perusal, for further discussion of geographical distribution and other general euchre-related things.
#32
Old 05-17-2004, 03:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bordelond
...

Can euchre be played this way?
There is a way to play 3-man euchre. It's been a while, but here's basically what I remember:

You take out the 9's, deal each person 5 and leave 5 in the "kitty(?)". The bidder has to get either 2 or 3 (I don't quite remember). The other players can sit out if they think they won't get a trick, or they can play. Everybody starts at 25, and you subtract how many tricks you get. If you get euchred (i.e. call it and don't get 2 or 3; or don't call it, play, and don't get any) you add 2 points to your score. First to 0 wins.

I'm thinking that there was some sort of cut-throat element to it, because my brother and I and one of our fraternity brothers once played a game for several hours one night. For a while I kept the sheet of paper that was the scorecard, which was covered front and back.

crozell, how do you keep score to 10 with a 2 and a 3?
#33
Old 05-17-2004, 03:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rucksinator
crozell, how do you keep score to 10 with a 2 and a 3?
The way I was taught, you keep score to 5 just like you normally would (the number of 'pips' showing is the score). When you score above 5, you turn one of the cards (whether it's face up or face down) so it's at a 90 degree angle to the other card. This essentially signifies 'add 5' to the number of pips showing.

So, for example, to score 4, you could have the 3 face up covering up one pip of the 2. Both cards would be oriented the same way. To score a 9, you would still have the same pips showing, but the 3 would be turned so that it is horizontal to the 2.

It is very natural if you've grown up seeing it, but I have to admit that it is a bit cryptic if it's not how you leanred. I don't know what rationale there was for people to start using it rather than the (seemingly more obvious) 5's. I do like it better than 5's (or a 4 and a 6), but maybe that's just nostalgia talking...
#34
Old 05-17-2004, 03:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crozell
It is very natural if you've grown up seeing it, but I have to admit that it is a bit cryptic if it's not how you leanred. I don't know what rationale there was for people to start using it rather than the (seemingly more obvious) 5's. I do like it better than 5's (or a 4 and a 6), but maybe that's just nostalgia talking...
Speaking of using particular playing cards not included in the deal... (and yes, I know I'm the one who first brought it up,) has reminded me of tyzicha. This is a game we played in my family, originally of russian origin I believe, and I've never heard of anybody else who plays it (though knowing the SDMB I wouldn't be too surprised if some of y'all are familair.) Played with the ace through 9 of all four suits by three players, seven dealt to each player and a kitty of three that gets picked up by the maker, who then passes one card to each player, ending up with everybody having eight cards. Trumps are made by declaring marriages, matching king-queen of suit, and points are scored both through marriages and capturing cards, each rank of card having their own value.

Each suit has its own value when 'married' and declared as trumps... hearts 100, diamonds 80, clubs 60, and spades 40, and this is critically important during bidding. (And of course, asking 'how many is a heart marriage worth again' could be either a big giveaway or a nasty bluff.) So the tradition was to select five cards from among the unused part of the pack... six and four of hearts, eight of diamonds, six of clubs, and four of spades, and display them prominently somewhere on the table as a memory aid.

When I started teaching the game to some friends as a teenager, they immediately dubbed these cards "the idiot cards", which is how I still sometimes think of them.

/END RANT
#35
Old 05-17-2004, 07:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisk
Speaking of using particular playing cards not included in the deal... (and yes, I know I'm the one who first brought it up,) has reminded me of tyzicha. This is a game we played in my family, originally of Russian origin I believe
Tyzicha is essentially the Russian word for "one thousand" (tysicha would be a more common transliteration). Is this game played to 1,000 points, by any chance?
#36
Old 05-17-2004, 08:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bordelond
Tyzicha is essentially the Russian word for "one thousand" (tysicha would be a more common transliteration). Is this game played to 1,000 points, by any chance?
Actually, played to either 1001 points or 501 points. (the full name being shortened from 'tysicha odin' or something like that... russian for one thousand and one.)

That last point can be the kicker too... according to the rules, the last and game-winning point can only be earned by winning a contract, not as a defender.
#37
Old 05-17-2004, 08:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samclem
If you mean than I haven't heard of Hoyle, that would be incorrect. You were born in 1979. I was born in 1944. I perhaps knew of Hoyle a bit before you. It's just that Hoyle forgot to include euchre in some of his early editions.
If you can provide any contemporary(1800-1860) cites that indicates the game was European in origin, that would help.
Mathochist. I'd like to apologize for my tone.

I also went back and checked my Mathews: Dictionary of Americanisms and he provides the evidence that I asked for. He cites the 1857 edition of Hoyle's games as saying
Quote:
A German game, from whence the highest card or 'Bower'...takes its name"
Then, in an 1866 book called American Hoyle,
Quote:
Euchre...has been traced to the counties of Lancaster, Berks, and Lehigh, in Pennsylvania, where it first made its appearance about forty years since"
I'm sure this is where the proposed German origins of the game started. There just has been no evidence beyond those early cites to substantiate it.

I'm currently wondering why, if the game is German in origin, it would appear in parts of Canada at an early date? Did the Germans settle much of Canada? Certainly they did PA, and would have taken the game West to IN, MI, OH, etc.
#38
Old 05-17-2004, 08:41 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Southern ontario
Posts: 6,566
Quote:
Originally Posted by samclem
I'm currently wondering why, if the game is German in origin, it would appear in parts of Canada at an early date? Did the Germans settle much of Canada? Certainly they did PA, and would have taken the game West to IN, MI, OH, etc.
I've just taken a quick look around the 'net, and it seems like a lot of the 'pennsylvania dutch' germans did move into Ontario... especially mennonites, a religious group related to the Amish (but not quite as restrictive) who were apparently very unpopular after the american revolution because they were conscientious objectors.

Certainly I've heard of mennonite groups that are still scattered around Ontario, and my mother, whose family has been in ontario for many generations, says that a relative has traced the family tree back to pennsylvania dutch, as well as united empire loyalists and some welsh immigrants.

PS: From what I've heard, it's an open joke among many serious experts on card games that just about anyone can write a book about card games, call it "the new American revised Hoyle" or something like that, and gain some sort of credibility from using the name Hoyle, despite the fact that the real Mister Hoyle, in his day, wrote about none of the games that are really popular in the 20th century. John Scarne waxed eloquent on this point in "Scarne on cards", where he bragged that US soldiers in world war 2, looking for a good game of poker, used to ask others how they played poker, and "According to Hoyle" was at first the appropriate countersign. Mister scarne wrote some articles on poker that got included with US armed service propaganda for the troops, pointing out that Hoyle had never heard of poker, and the countersign (supposedly) got changed to "According to Scarne." (I take that whole yarn with a grain of salt, or perhaps a grain of dope? )
#39
Old 05-18-2004, 02:26 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: New Orleans, LA
Posts: 3,031
Quote:
Originally Posted by samclem
Mathochist. I'd like to apologize for my tone.
No need. I wasn't offering any hard evidence, though I'd not staked a claim. Mostly this leg of the thread started with me being pedantic about phrasing. Still, now we know.
#40
Old 05-18-2004, 01:14 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Fishers, IN
Posts: 1,723
just wanted to thank everyone for their input

while it seems the true origin is forever lost, there has been plenty of information absorbed here

again, thank you!
#41
Old 05-19-2004, 12:02 AM
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Location: NY USA
Posts: 7,635
My father taught us how to play when we were kids. It was popular in his neighborhood (in upstate NY).

Anyway, he told us this story of a rather thick-headed fellow who simply could not accept the idea that sometimes, when another player was a point away from winning, you did not want to euchre someone, i.e. you'd have to let them win some tricks. Because if he got euchred, all the other players would get the points and the highest guy would then win the whole game!

Well, this guy did this so often they wound up creating a catch-phrase anytime somebody wanted to do something obviously stupid:

"You're Euchred! Here's my dollar..."

We still say it today!
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