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#1
Old 07-22-2004, 02:18 PM
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Replcement for "Pot calling the kettle black"

Since "Pot calling the kettle black" has been called racist (it certainly portrays being black as a negative attribute for a pot or kettle) we need a replacement that carries the same tone without risk of being rude.

I propose

"Like a slug calling a worm slimey"

but I'm sure you Dopers can come up with something even better ...
#2
Old 07-22-2004, 02:50 PM
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How the hell is that racist? Don't play into the ignorance of others. It comes from a time when pots and kettles were cast iron. They were both black. It is calling someone a hypocrite. It doesn't even imply that there is anything wrong with the color let alone equate the color with race. If someone wants to be ignorant and misread the saying then let them. I'll stay with the old saying thank you.
#3
Old 07-22-2004, 03:05 PM
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I assume Bippy was sort of over-stating it to start a funny thread.

Dude, that's like the pilot calling the hippie "high".
#4
Old 07-22-2004, 03:06 PM
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Bush calling someone dumb.

Kerry calling someone dull.

A politician calling a lawyer dishonest. (or vice-versa)

Fred Phelps calling someone a hate-monger.
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#5
Old 07-22-2004, 03:25 PM
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With the exception of old photographs of minstrel performers, I've yet to see a black person. People in varying shades of brown, sure...but never black.

How about:
The cracker calling the rice white.
The Dutchman calling the Scottsman cheap.
The German calling the mule stubborn.
The Italian calling the Puerto-Rican short tempered.
The Chinaman calling the Senior Citizen a bad driver.
The American calling the Frenchman pompous.
or
The PC police calling everyone else intolerant.
#6
Old 07-22-2004, 03:31 PM
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Like the pot calling the coke illegal

OH, I DO hope Bippy is really joking about the racism angle here.

Anyway, to be lazy, you could keep the same phrase, and just use practically any colour, it being easy now to have pots and kettles in bright red, yellow, or whatever.

Of course, that would be missing out on the *obviousness* of them being the same colour:

OK,

a rose calling a geranium red

a dalmation calling a leopard spotty



Come to think of it, this could be a fun game, PLUS it is already helping to remind me that I should buy a new kettle (any colour as long as it heats water, naturellement)
#7
Old 07-22-2004, 03:34 PM
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Good one, Kalhoun. I think I'll start using it.

I hope the OP was joking about the pot calling the kettle black being racist. If somoene's really claiming that it is, I'll take 'em to the Pit without a second thought.
#8
Old 07-22-2004, 03:36 PM
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Y'know, black on a wok is GOOD. It means it's well seasoned.

Criminy, I also hope the OP is a joke. Should we get rid of "all over [something] like white on rice" too?
#9
Old 07-22-2004, 03:37 PM
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Like Cecil Adams calling Ken Jennings intelligent?
#10
Old 07-22-2004, 03:49 PM
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Here's a relatively interesting, rational discussion I yanked out of Google on the racism angle. Mmmmm, etymology.

Whether or not the OP was being facetious, it's still a good exercise, because "pot calling the kettle black" is a dead cliche, and should only be used by people too lazy to create new, evocative metaphors.

Celyn's dalmation/leopard thing is my favorite so far.
#11
Old 07-22-2004, 04:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UrbanChic
Good one, Kalhoun. I think I'll start using it.

I hope the OP was joking about the pot calling the kettle black being racist. If somoene's really claiming that it is, I'll take 'em to the Pit without a second thought.
Omarosa, from "The Apprentice", called another contestant a "racist" when the constestant said to her, "That's like the pot calling the kettle black". So after reading the OP, I had the same reaction Loach had, since I had heard someone get upset about it.
#12
Old 07-22-2004, 04:20 PM
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Yes, it was the apprentice which I heard about someone saying this phrase is offensive. I thought WTH. That's why the OP was written with the wording "has been called" and not "is considerd". Still as it stands pot calling the kettle black is kind of an outdated and cliched phrase, and few peeps ever cook on open fires anymore that would cause the blackening that the phrase refers to. So I hoped the dopers could come up with some clever and funny alternatives. And you guys have proved some great ones so far
#13
Old 07-22-2004, 04:22 PM
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That's like the dolphin calling the porpoise 'fishbreath'.

That's like a New Yorker calling London expensive.

That's like the fly calling the bee 'buzzy'.

That's like the fridge calling the freezer cold.

That's like the dodo calling the great auk extinct.

That's like the slime calling the muck gross.

That's like the geek calling the nerd loser.
#14
Old 07-22-2004, 04:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bippy the Beardless
Still as it stands pot calling the kettle black is kind of an outdated and cliched phrase, and few peeps ever cook on open fires anymore that would cause the blackening that the phrase refers to.
A tire calling the asphalt black.
#15
Old 07-22-2004, 04:59 PM
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Michael Jakson calling the Pope white.
#16
Old 07-22-2004, 05:02 PM
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That's like:
Elvis calling Andy Kaufman dead.
Charles Nelson Reilly calling Paul Lynde butch.
Streisand calling Liz Taylor humble.
Luciano Pavarotti calling Leslie West svelte.
#17
Old 07-22-2004, 05:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loach
How the hell is that racist? Don't play into the ignorance of others. It comes from a time when pots and kettles were cast iron. They were both black. It is calling someone a hypocrite. It doesn't even imply that there is anything wrong with the color let alone equate the color with race. If someone wants to be ignorant and misread the saying then let them. I'll stay with the old saying thank you.
I agree with Loach that it is very far from a racist statement.

However, more acurately, the saying comes from a time when stoves were wood-burning, and the pot and kettle would become coated in black soot.
#18
Old 07-22-2004, 05:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rysler
(The) dalmation/leopard thing is my favorite so far
I don't get it
#19
Old 07-22-2004, 06:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnBckWLD
OK, who let the kids play join the dot with their family pet dalmation?
#20
Old 07-22-2004, 06:04 PM
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How about:

"That's like the hamster calling the snail slow"


#21
Old 07-22-2004, 06:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnBckWLD
Luciano Pavarotti calling Leslie West svelte.
Doo doo doo do doo, Miss-i-sip-pi Quee-een
#22
Old 07-22-2004, 06:24 PM
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Well done gotpasswords I couldn't come up with a Doper specific one...
#23
Old 07-22-2004, 06:57 PM
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OK, you got me to de-lurk for this one!

(Hi.)

De-lurking because I was literally just standing in the shower wondering if "niggardly" was a word that would get me busted by the (ignorant) PC cops nowadays.

And yes, I know its entymology has nothing to do with the "n" word - but many folks don't, and I can actually understand the mistake. Do I fight the good fight, use the word and risk offending the ignorant? Or should I be respectful of folks' feelings and not use a word I know is likely to offend - albeit unintentionally (and incorrectly)?

It's just such a wonderful word...
#24
Old 07-22-2004, 07:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhyNot
(Hi.)

De-lurking because I was literally just standing in the shower wondering if "niggardly" was a word that would get me busted by the (ignorant) PC cops nowadays.

And yes, I know its entymology has nothing to do with the "n" word - but many folks don't, and I can actually understand the mistake. Do I fight the good fight, use the word and risk offending the ignorant? Or should I be respectful of folks' feelings and not use a word I know is likely to offend - albeit unintentionally (and incorrectly)?

It's just such a wonderful word...
I say use it. We're supposed to fight ignorance, right?
If you can see someone gets offended, gently tell them the definition. Enlighten them! Maybe you can think up an example of a word that sounds nasty but isn't as an example (I can't right now).
#25
Old 07-22-2004, 07:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnBckWLD
That's like:
Elvis calling Andy Kaufman dead.
That one is really good. I think I'll adopt the Dalmatian/leopard one for general use.

(fighting a little ignorance here, Dalmatian is spelled with an ian, not ion at the end. Think of them being from Dalmatia)

My contribution, it's like the doughnut calling the french fry fattening.
#26
Old 07-22-2004, 08:18 PM
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Though nigardly, flip, nip etc. are perfectly valid words, it would IMHO be rude to repeatedly and intentionally use nigardly arround black people, flip arround Filipino people nip arround Japanese people.
I mean nothing is wrong with nigardly used correctly and with good reason, but if someone makes special effort to allways call a frugal black person a nigard they are just being an ass.

Back On Topic.

like an 18"DHIBJD calling a 1920's style death ray scary
#27
Old 07-22-2004, 11:26 PM
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An actual variant, from a 90s version of the Encarta encyclopedia (it is used as a sample of some language, I think Eastern European), is "the owl tells the sparrow he has a big head."
#28
Old 07-22-2004, 11:46 PM
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I hardly think Omarosa is a credible authority.


How about: "That's the Irishman calling the Russian a drunk!"
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#29
Old 07-23-2004, 01:11 AM
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That's like a HooLooVoo calling an Andorian blue.

That's like a Time Lord calling Q meddling.

That's like a the Borg calling Daleks obsessive.

That's like Harry Sullivan calling a Pakled an idiot.

That's like Wesley Crusher calling Neelix annoying.



That's like a Whovian calling a Trekker geeky.



#30
Old 07-23-2004, 02:15 AM
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That's like my mother calling me a son of a bitch!

(Love ya, mom! )

Anyhoo...
#31
Old 07-23-2004, 04:09 AM
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"Nice chinos, Mr. Blackwell."

"Hey, dance tips from Michael Stipe!"

"Charo here thinks I'm dressed inappropriately!"

"Parenting advice from Steve Erwin."
#32
Old 07-23-2004, 07:07 AM
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Firstly, for a long time black has been associated with evil; it seems natural that there is a 'bad' connotation -- or perhaps, just a dirty connotation -- here. (Though all colours have many connotations. We can't stop using them all.) But secondly, I've occasionally heard other versions of the phrase, and they sound just as natural.
#33
Old 07-23-2004, 08:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PussyCow
I agree with Loach that it is very far from a racist statement.

However, more acurately, the saying comes from a time when stoves were wood-burning, and the pot and kettle would become coated in black soot.


I've been brought up in a remote, backward village, and most of my relatives living there were elderly former farmers. They often cooked various things in the fireplace, and had old kitchenware. So, the first time I read the english sentence "It's the pot calling the kettle black", I immediatly figured out the meaning. A kettle which has been used for years in a fireplace is most definitely blackened by soot (actually, the soot eventually form a kind of black "crust" on the outside of the kettle).

Believing that this saying has a racist origin seems a very convoluted interpretation. Pots and kettles have been as obviously black as the sky is blue for hundreds of years.


For the record, the equivalent french sentence means something like "It's the hospital making fun of the clinic".
#34
Old 07-23-2004, 08:46 AM
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I always thought the phrase referred to cast ironware. They are all black so to compare them is just stupid.

Kiwis (this may offend the more classy Kiwi) are big on minimalist speech (ok not as much as Aussies maybe). Common phrases here include "sweet as", "good as", "bad as", "black as". You get the picture.

Try it. You might like it
#35
Old 07-23-2004, 12:44 PM
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Long-time lurker, new guest member checking in!

For what it's worth, the equivalent expression in Taiwanese (that I grew up hearing from my dad) roughly translates as "The tortoise mocks the turtle for having no tail."

I also enjoyed the original Yiddish phrase that entered the English vocabulary as "Look who's talking", but I can't remember it off the top of my head.
#36
Old 07-23-2004, 01:39 PM
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Isn't that kinda like the sieve saying the collandar leaks?
#37
Old 07-23-2004, 01:59 PM
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It's like a cesspool telling a septic tank it's full of shit.
#38
Old 07-23-2004, 02:34 PM
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It's like Omarosa calling the kettle black.

(there, now THAT'S a little racist.)
#39
Old 07-23-2004, 04:13 PM
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I think the significance of the pot calling the hettle black is that the pot has reason to think it's not black itself. As numerous others have pointed out, the pot eventually became black because of all the soot, but it wasn't black originally. Presumably, the kettle's always been black because it was made out of cast iron.

So I think in order to bring the phrase up-to-date, we have to use a person/place/thing that has reason to believe it is of a certain characteristic, which has changed with the passage of time to become similar to a corresponding person/place/thing that would be considered of lower status.

I dunno, something like PETA calling Southern Baptists fanatics.
#40
Old 07-23-2004, 09:35 PM
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It's like Jessica Simpson's head calling Al Capone's vault empty.

It's like Windows calling dog sh*t a piece of crap.

It's like Bill Gates calling a pint of Chubby Hubby rich.
#41
Old 07-24-2004, 03:25 AM
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The perfect generic insult...

It takes one to know one.
#42
Old 07-24-2004, 06:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calm kiwi
Kiwis (this may offend the more classy Kiwi) are big on minimalist speech (ok not as much as Aussies maybe). Common phrases here include "sweet as", "good as", "bad as", "black as". You get the picture.
Try it. You might like it
Th pu np, kl.
#43
Old 07-24-2004, 08:48 AM
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In Greece we say "The donkey called the rooster big-headed"
#44
Old 07-24-2004, 11:13 AM
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Where I'm from, we say,

"Shut the hell up, moron, before I whack you up side your side with a two by four with a nail sticking out of it!"

Seems to work most times.
#45
Old 07-24-2004, 11:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoClueBoy

"Shut the hell up, moron, before I whack you up side your HEAD with a two by four with a nail sticking out of it!"

Notice how much better it works with the right words in place?


C-O-F-F-E-E.....
#46
Old 07-24-2004, 05:13 PM
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"That's like (political commentator) calling (political commentator) a liar!"

I took the names out, because I'm running a bit rich on venom these days. I gotta watch myself.
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#47
Old 07-25-2004, 09:37 AM
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Hi, I'm Mr. Kettle-
You must me Mr Pot...
#48
Old 07-25-2004, 09:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Go You Big Red Fire Engine
Th pu np, kl.
Friggin Ockers
#49
Old 07-25-2004, 02:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PussyCow
I say use it. We're supposed to fight ignorance, right?
If you can see someone gets offended, gently tell them the definition. Enlighten them! Maybe you can think up an example of a word that sounds nasty but isn't as an example (I can't right now).
Maybe that's a good idea in La La Land, or wherever the hell it is that you reside, but around here...not such a good idea.

(Oy, I can just imagine it. There I am, making my transfer at Newark Penn Station, when some crackwhore asks me for money. "Well, dear lady, I hope you don't think I'm being niggardly..."

Yeah, I'm sure she'll wait to start beating me to a bloody pulp so that I can "gently tell her the definition," "enlighten her," and "think up an example of another word that sounds nasty but isn't."

My dying utterance will be "A faggot is a bunch of sticks! A bunch of sticks!")
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