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#1
Old 08-20-2004, 03:34 PM
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Kill Bill 2 plot point questions -- spoilers

I just rented Kill Bill 2.

One point bothered me a little -- where does Budd live? When Bill and Budd are speaking about O-Ren, Bill asks about Budd's swordplay. Budd says that he sold his Hattori Hamzo sword. Bill remarks that it was priceless, and Budd answers that in El Paso, its worth about $250.

There are a few other references IIRC to Budd being in El Paso. The scenery around his house is consistent with it. When he buries Beatrix alive, he tells Elle that it is a "Texas funeral."

But when Elle phones Bill, she says that if he ever wants to visit her, she is buried in Stockton, California, in a cemetary under the name "Paula Schwartz." I suppose he could have sold his sword after the ambush at the wedding in El Paso, and then moved to California, but I'm not sure if this is ever made clear.

Also, is loading a shotgun with rock salt common? Why not just use buckshot and kill someone dead?
#2
Old 08-20-2004, 04:42 PM
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Simplest explanation is best. He lived in El Paso at some point and moved to Stockton.

He didn't sell his sword. The Bride found it and used it during the fight with One-Eyed Darryl Hannah. Or he pawned it and bought it back, either way.

Why rock salt? Because it hurts like hell but won't kill. He didn't want to kill her outright; he wanted her to suffer and bury her alive.
#3
Old 08-20-2004, 08:06 PM
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I thought it was Barstow, not Stockton.

But Otto's right, the simple explanation is that he is from (or lived a significant period of time in) El Paso.

The scenery around his trailer is consistant with the area.
#4
Old 08-20-2004, 11:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edwino
Also, is loading a shotgun with rock salt common? Why not just use buckshot and kill someone dead?

It's not uncommon. As Otto said, he wanted to hurt her but definitely not kill her, and rock salt would do the trick.

The UL was that many marijuana "ranchers" in NoCAL used to load up with rock salt back in the day to keep kids from pilfering their fields. It would give them a bad scare and a hell of an owie. Nowadays they probably just shoot 'em.
#5
Old 08-21-2004, 12:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mauvaise
I thought it was Barstow, not Stockton.

But Otto's right, the simple explanation is that he is from (or lived a significant period of time in) El Paso.

The scenery around his trailer is consistant with the area.
Yeah, Barstow. I remembered because when I heard him say it I started thinking of Fear and Loathing.
"We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert..."
#6
Old 08-21-2004, 01:06 AM
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Ahhh, yes. Bats, IIRC.

My bad. I know he didn't sell the sword, just told his brother that he did probably to piss him off.

So much of the movie revolved around El Paso that I assumed he hadn't moved from there after he said that he had sold his sword. It was just jarring to hear the California line and it was bothering me.

Thanks for clearing that up. Loved the movie, BTW.
#7
Old 08-21-2004, 01:10 AM
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Originally Posted by xgxlx
Yeah, Barstow. I remembered because when I heard him say it I started thinking of Fear and Loathing.
"We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert..."
"We can't stop here! This is bat Country!"
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#8
Old 08-21-2004, 01:02 PM
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I don't think Budd was LIVING in El Paso. I think the idea is that, after the massacre at the wedding chapel in El Paso, Budd felt so guilty about what he'd done that he hocked his sword at the first place he could find, and gave up the life of an assassin. He was so disgusted by and ashamed of what he'd done, he was willing to take on a demeaning, crappy job as a bouncer in a strip club and live in squalor rather than go back to his old profession.

Even though it turned out later that he'd lied about hocking the sword, I think this theory still holds.
#9
Old 08-21-2004, 02:22 PM
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I agree with astorian. I just watched Kill Bill Vols. 1 and 2 back to back earlier this morning... watching him take shit from the titty bar owner .... the first thought that came to mind was, "This must be his idea of penance."

But damned if his old instincts didn't kick in when Kiddo came gunning for him.
#10
Old 08-21-2004, 02:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edwino
Also, is loading a shotgun with rock salt common? Why not just use buckshot and kill someone dead?
Hey - I've been shot at with rock salt. This was back when kids were just as vandalous as today, but less likely to have guns of their own, so non-lethal loads were common.

An even nastier treat was rock salt, quicklime and lard. The lard made it harder to wash the lime out of the wound.
#11
Old 08-21-2004, 02:46 PM
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Forgive my ignorance, but I am not a gun owner, so-- how exactly do you load a shot gun with rock salt, quicklime and lard? I assumed you could buy rock salt shotgun shells but -- the rest?
#12
Old 08-21-2004, 02:58 PM
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Take out the pellets out of the tube and replace them with whatever you like (bath oil beads would be kinda neat). Or you can just leave the tube empty and shoot someone at close range with a hot was of guncotton. I've been shot with that too. It really smarts! Or, if it hits you too close and in the temple, it can kill you.
#13
Old 08-21-2004, 03:02 PM
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Thanks.

You sure get shot a lot, tho.
#14
Old 08-21-2004, 03:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slithy Tove
Take out the pellets out of the tube and replace them with whatever you like (bath oil beads would be kinda neat). Or you can just leave the tube empty and shoot someone at close range with a hot was of guncotton. I've been shot with that too. It really smarts! Or, if it hits you too close and in the temple, it can kill you.
I don't know if this is what you're referring to, but actor Jon-Erik Hexum accidentally killed himself this way. While working on the set of the spy show "Cover Up", he put a .44 magnum loaded with blanks to his head and fired. The motivation for doing so, and what he said as he did it changes depending upon who's telling the story.

The wadding drove a skull fragment into his brain, and the gasses escaping from the barrel furthere severely damaged it, resulting in his death.
#15
Old 08-21-2004, 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Askia
Thanks.

You sure get shot a lot, tho.
Sig line!
#16
Old 08-22-2004, 01:47 AM
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1) How does rock salt NOT kill you? It's still pretty hard and being propelled by a shotgun blast. Does it just desintegrate when it hits you instead of puncturing as deep or something?

2) Why all the secrecy about The Brides name?
#17
Old 08-22-2004, 01:57 AM
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I'm with msmith537 on this one. The Bride's name, at least, the stupid lod beep over her name, and then all of a sudden, there it is? I thought Vol 1 was a big QT orgy of self love. My wife convinced me that, yeah it might be, but it was really crazy over the top fun. Vol 2, was a big plodding mess. My god, thaose two films might have made one ok movie, but all the slow panning shots, the "build up", the "suspense", oh, god the music! Maybe when the Director's cut comes out, I'll give it another try, when it's re-editted, unless he adds more footage in which case I'll kill myself.

In summary, Vol 1, ridiculous gory fun. Vol 2, boring plodding QT wankfest.
#18
Old 08-22-2004, 03:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msmith537
1) How does rock salt NOT kill you? It's still pretty hard and being propelled by a shotgun blast. Does it just desintegrate when it hits you instead of puncturing as deep or something?
I know next to nothing about firearms, but if I had to guess I would guess that chunks of rock salt are larger than shot pellets, and also have irregular surfaces, so they aren't going to travel as fast as smaller regularly-shaped pellets. I would also guess that salt is less dense than lead so the same force that would allow shot to penetrate skin and travel deeper into the body isn't going to be enough to drive in the salt to the same depth.
#19
Old 08-22-2004, 10:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slithy Tove
Take out the pellets out of the tube and replace them with whatever you like (bath oil beads would be kinda neat).
"OW!....Ahhhhhh!"
#20
Old 08-22-2004, 05:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msmith537
1) How does rock salt NOT kill you? It's still pretty hard and being propelled by a shotgun blast. Does it just desintegrate when it hits you instead of puncturing as deep or something?
I'm not sure how big rock salt is, but I do know enough to say that shotgun ammunition spreads at difference rates, inversely proportional to the size of the pellets.

For example, 00 Buckshot will take the longest time to spread and remain as a solid mass for a longer time after leaving the barrel. Birdshot will spread in a much quicker fashion(and lessing the effective range). Rock salt, if it truely is just grains, will spread quickly, be of small size, thus stinging but not having any real penetrating power.
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#21
Old 08-22-2004, 06:40 PM
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Originally Posted by DaddyTimesTwo

In summary, Vol 1, ridiculous gory fun. Vol 2, boring plodding QT wankfest.
Amen.

We watched them both back to back last night. Volume One was fun, but we fast-forwarded through a lot of Volume 2.

Hey, I'm all for dialogue in QT's movies. Usually, it's clever and funny-- hell, Pulp Fiction was only enjoyable because of the dialogue-- but this was just awful. God, it was like listening to the last chapter of a Harlequin Romance being read aloud.

This was not a film meant for character development. It was supposed to be a fun, trashy kung-fu movie, not a lenghty, tedious discussion of the ins-and-outs of the main characters' relationship.
#22
Old 08-22-2004, 10:52 PM
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Quote:
Take out the pellets out of the tube and replace them with whatever you like (bath oil beads would be kinda neat).
Calgon...blow me away
#23
Old 08-23-2004, 08:18 AM
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I guess what got me about KBV2 is that even thought there was a lot of talk, they didn't really explain too much.

E.g. Budd says, "she deserves her revenge, and we deserve to die." But, then he sets about killing her in the most evil way he can think of, instead of giving her a proper death.

The three women seem to HATE Kiddo with a passion, but WHY? Bill doesn't hate her that way. They're all in a murderous rage over her because she dumped Bill? Fine, but you'd think they would have worked out some of the agression at the wedding rehearsal.

------
I find KBV2 inferior. The thing is, it's much more "talky" but the talky parts aren't even as good as they are in the first one (I'm thinking of "Buck's speech", the El Paso cop's dialogue, O-ren's initiation, the Hanzo scene, all classic Tarantino).

The only dialogue that's nearly as good in the second one was when the night club owner was ripping on Budd. And maybe the short guy who helped Budd dig the grave.

The Spanish guy was stupid. Elle and Budd's dialogue was nothing. Bill's rambling at the end was all pointless. It just wasn't funny or clever.

Watching the first one, you could only guess at Bill's character and motivation, and I think the pay-off just didn't live up to the expectations I had built up.

That's not exactly a criticism of the movie per se but just a reason I didn't find it as satisfying.
#24
Old 08-23-2004, 08:49 AM
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Quote:
The three women seem to HATE Kiddo with a passion, but WHY? Bill doesn't hate her that way. They're all in a murderous rage over her because she dumped Bill? Fine, but you'd think they would have worked out some of the agression at the wedding rehearsal.

And you'd think the years she spent in a coma would have helped them cool off.

Quote:
I find KBV2 inferior. The thing is, it's much more "talky" but the talky parts aren't even as good as they are in the first one (I'm thinking of "Buck's speech", the El Paso cop's dialogue, O-ren's initiation, the Hanzo scene, all classic Tarantino).
Completely agree.. I'm getting v1 but not v2.
#25
Old 08-23-2004, 08:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trunk
E.g. Budd says, "she deserves her revenge, and we deserve to die." But, then he sets about killing her in the most evil way he can think of, instead of giving her a proper death.
Lots of folks deserve things they don't get and get things they don't deserve. I took Budd's statement to be explicative of why he's gone from international assassin to tittie bar bouncer. He's broken with Bill philosophically. But just because he's reconciled himself to the notion that he deserves what he gets doesn't mean he's not going to fight like hell for it not to happen. He may deserve to die but he doesn't want to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trunk
The three women seem to HATE Kiddo with a passion, but WHY?
Because she was Bill's favorite in a way that they could never possibly be and she betrayed it and him. Bill may have forgiven her but that doesn't mean they have to. Plus there's the whole "she's killed a number of their friends and associates and is coming after them" thing.
#26
Old 08-23-2004, 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Otto
Lots of folks deserve things they don't get and get things they don't deserve. I took Budd's statement to be explicative of why he's gone from international assassin to tittie bar bouncer. He's broken with Bill philosophically. But just because he's reconciled himself to the notion that he deserves what he gets doesn't mean he's not going to fight like hell for it not to happen. He may deserve to die but he doesn't want to.
Right, but why does this indicate he should torture Beatrix to death, and spit in her face.

His statement indicates a sympathy with her cause, one that would indicate she deserves a noble death, not a shameful death. THAT'S what I don't get.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Otto
Because she was Bill's favorite in a way that they could never possibly be and she betrayed it and him. Bill may have forgiven her but that doesn't mean they have to.
OK, but that's still pretty much a WAG. Was there any indication that O-ren, Elle, or Vernita were jealous of Bill & Bea? I didn't see it. Well, Elle, sure -- she had that motivation but it just seemed to rub off on the other two.

Certainly, Bill didn't care about Vernita leaving him to go live the "normal" life, indicating they didn't have the connection that Bill and Bea did.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Otto
Plus there's the whole "she's killed a number of their friends and associates and is coming after them" thing.
Not for Vernita.

But still, they would understand her motivation. That doesn't explain the hatred.
#27
Old 08-23-2004, 02:02 PM
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But still, they would understand her motivation. That doesn't explain the hatred.
Vernita doesn't really seem to hate her. She apologizes for fucking her over, at least. All things considered, Vernita had a pretty mild reaction to B coming into her house.

O-Ren doesn't seem to have any deep-seated hate in her, either, besides a little bit of racism and probably, like Otto said, some jealousy. For the most part she's pissed about what B did to Sophie (and GoGo, and Johnny Mo, and all the Crazy 88's), I'd wager.
#28
Old 09-06-2004, 11:07 PM
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This is the most recently active 'Kill Bill 2 questions' thread, so I figure it's the best place to ask this: I just finished watching KB2, and who the hell drove Beatrix's car up to Bill's house when she walked out carrying BB? Was that just a bit of "ok, now, the car is going to drive itself up to the house but SHHH! you're not supposed to notice" thrown in by Tarantino, or did I seriously miss something?
#29
Old 09-07-2004, 01:49 AM
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It was the valet at the hotel complex. Bill wasn't at his home-- he was at a resort.
#30
Old 09-07-2004, 07:02 PM
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Ok, so, I seriously missed something. Thank you, Barbarian!
#31
Old 09-07-2004, 09:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Trunk
Right, but why does this indicate he should torture Beatrix to death, and spit in her face.
Because he made an agreement with Elle that Beatrix "would suffer unto her last breath." He agreed to kill her in this way and give her Hanzo sword to Elle in exchange for a million bucks.
#32
Old 09-07-2004, 09:50 PM
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My question: Why would Pai Mei teach her the exploding heart technique when she couldn't even master punching through a wall?
#33
Old 09-07-2004, 10:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xvxdarkknightxvx
My question: Why would Pai Mei teach her the exploding heart technique when she couldn't even master punching through a wall?
Because she obviously did master punching through a wall.

She did manage to get out of the coffin, after all!
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