Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
#1
Old 11-11-2004, 02:30 PM
Guest
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 8,299
bona fide - How in the HELL do you pronounce that, anyway?

I used to say "bo-nah fide (rhymes with "tide").

Then I went to Ireland. First time bona fide came out of my mouth, nearly a half-dozen Irish youths collapsed beneath the table in laughter. "It's bo-nah FEE-day, you bloody stupid American!" they jeered.

Well, that beery Latin lesson brought me 'round pretty quickly to "bo-nah FEE-day". Since I was 21 I've been pronouncing it thusly.

Then, at a party last weekend, a snotty friend, let's call him Joe Pedant, stared long and hard at me down his nose, and announced, with Ivy League disdain, that it's "bo-nah FIDE-ee".

Well, what the fuck is it? My dictionary tells me it's "bo-nah fide (rhymes with tide, again), or "bo-nah fide-ee". No mention of "bo-nah fee-day", though a sizable portion of the Irish lads I got to know nearly laughed me out of the pub for thinking otherwise. Now Joe Pedant (who is almost never wrong, goddamn him) has weighed in. Oooo, I would love to stick it to that bastard, but he's smarter than I am, which makes it doubly annoying when he knows he's right. Thing is, maybe all the pronunciations I've heard are "right", and it doesn't matter. Maybe it's just personal preference. Which is why I'm asking here:

For the love of McPete, what are the bona fide pronunciations of "bona fide"?
#2
Old 11-11-2004, 02:35 PM
Guest
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 12,320
It's pronounced "genuine."
#3
Old 11-11-2004, 02:56 PM
The Central Scrutinizer
Moderator
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Pork Roll/Taylor Ham
Posts: 23,202
Quote:
It's pronounced "genuine."
Is that pronounced jen-u-inn or jen-u-Ine?
#4
Old 11-11-2004, 03:03 PM
Guest
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Somewhere in the Middle.
Posts: 21,387
I've always pronounced it the first choice given. Bona Fide. Rhymes With Tide.
#5
Old 11-11-2004, 03:14 PM
Guest
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Somewhere in the Middle.
Posts: 21,387
How do you pronounce " Fete" ( I don't know how to do the ' thingie)

Is it Fete, like Boba Fett?

Or Fa-tay?

Inquiring minds want to know.
#6
Old 11-11-2004, 03:48 PM
Guest
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: DC area
Posts: 29,429
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loopydude
For the love of McPete, what are the bona fide pronunciations of "bona fide"?
From what Latin I remember, "fide" should be pronounced "FEE-day." The I like ee, the e like ay.

But! That's, I think, the Classical Latin pronunciation. During the middle ages or the Renaissance or somesuch, pronunciations of Latin started changing, like substituting a soft g for a hard g, things like that. And I the vowels sometimes changed around, too.

AND! Added to that you have simply a shift in pronunciation borne of not as many people knowing or giving two whits about Latin, AND! you have certain professions having different pronunciations becoming accepted as standard.

In the US, I think bone fide rhymes with tide most often. FIE-dee sounds like porkypine in the porcupine thread.

BUT! things like, I think, fish taxonomy involves weird pronunciations of Latinate words, so don't be completely flummoxed if you run across a plumber or someone who swears up and down, and is right, that the National Association of Plumbers calls it FIE-dee. 'Cause people are weird.
#7
Old 11-11-2004, 05:24 PM
Guest
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: underpants
Posts: 19,743
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shirley Ujest
Is it Fete, like Boba Fett?
Yep. "We feted him," that is we threw a celebration for him, is pronounced "fetted."

Sort of like how "forte," as in strength, "writing is my forte," is pronounced "fort," not "for-tay."
#8
Old 11-11-2004, 05:27 PM
Guest
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: East Bay
Posts: 3,523
Quote:
Sort of like how "forte," as in strength, "writing is my forte," is pronounced "fort," not "for-tay."
Quit messing with my mind! You're joking right?
#9
Old 11-11-2004, 06:48 PM
Guest
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Washington, D.C.
Posts: 7,931
You had the typical U.S. pronounciation originally. Sometimes in the legal community it's pronounced the way the Irish folks said it (because we lawyers are Latin snobs), but in standard American conversation, fide rhymes with tide.

--Cliffy
#10
Old 11-11-2004, 08:32 PM
Guest
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: underpants
Posts: 19,743
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghanima
Quit messing with my mind! You're joking right?
Nope. "Forte" pronounced "for-tay" is a music direction meaning "loud." But "forte" pronounced "fort" is the thickest and thus strongest part of a fencing sword, typically the ten to twelve inches of the blade directly above the guard (i.e. at the handle end). Hence, when one wants to use a word to mean "one's strength or strongest area," one should say "forte" pronounced "fort."

However, it's been misused so widely and for so long that no doubt the descriptive-not-prescriptive dictionaries will have "for-tay" as the primary pronunciation for all usages soon, if they don't already, thus making it "right." Sigh.
#11
Old 11-11-2004, 08:38 PM
Guest
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 8,299
So, is bona fide-rhymes-with-tide one of those "accepted-by-convention-but-just-plain-wrong" kinda things as well?
#12
Old 11-11-2004, 08:40 PM
Guest
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: lO-'kA-sh&n
Posts: 2,967
Here's a description of usage per forte from Merriam-Webster dot com, somewhat contrasting to that which seems usual with regard to tone (and amusingly so):

Quote:
...So you can take your choice [between \'fort\ \'for-"tA\ and \'for-tE\], knowing that someone somewhere will dislike whichever variant you choose.
And, upon preview, I see Cervaise beat me to it, sigh.
#13
Old 11-11-2004, 09:01 PM
Guest
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Earth, 3rd planet in Sol,
Posts: 762
Did anyone else think of the little Wharvey girls in O Brother, Where Art Thou? when they saw this thread?

"He's bona fide!"

[/self assured little girl nod]

"He's a suitor!"
#14
Old 11-11-2004, 09:12 PM
Guest
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Shapeir
Posts: 1,030
Lets all join hands and do the Cecil dance. Maybe he'll come in and answer this for us.
#15
Old 11-11-2004, 09:15 PM
Guest
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 9,925
O Brother, Where Art Thou? immediately came to my mind.

I suspect it's regional; for us up here it's always been "boh-nah FI-duh", not "FEE-day."
#16
Old 11-11-2004, 10:16 PM
Charter Member
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 7,037
Just so long as we're all sure it's not bonified.
#17
Old 11-11-2004, 10:21 PM
BANNED
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: St. Paul, MN
Posts: 58,797
In Latin it's bona FEEday, In English it's bona FIDE (rhymes with tide). In nothing is it "bonah fidee."
#18
Old 11-12-2004, 07:31 AM
Guest
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Hampshire, England
Posts: 13,354
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diogenes the Cynic
In Latin it's bona FEEday, In English it's bona FIDE (rhymes with tide). In nothing is it "bonah fidee."
Not true. I pronounce it "bonah fidee", and my (British English) dictionary agrees with me, giving that as the only pronunciation for the adjective. (In IPA, '[email protected]@ 'faidi, where @ = schwa and the i has no dot).

The noun "bona fides" is pronounced the same, with a Z sound at the end.

Interestingly, given the OP's Irish experience, it also gives a secondary sense, this time with the pronunciation "BAW-na FIDE" (rhymes with tide), meaning "Irish informal: a public house licensed to serve alcohol after hours to bona fide travellers."
#19
Old 11-12-2004, 10:23 AM
Guest
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Chicago
Posts: 1,596
I'm normally on the side of the Latin snobs, but this is just ridiculous.

In the US, rhymes-with-tide is the only way you will get your point across in most contexts.

The plural noun ('gotcher "bona fides" right here, buster!') is bona-fiedz, (hard 's') which is hardly correct since it's originally an adverbial phrase, but that doesn't mean it is 'wrong'.

The 'British' pronunciation is 'bonah fidee'? Really? Well, I'll be goll-darned. Even the dictionary agrees, along with my informal poll of two actual Brits. Whuddaya know?

Daphne
__________________
"It's probably funnier in Latin. You know how that is." - Fred on Angel
#20
Old 11-12-2004, 12:06 PM
Guest
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Amongst the Simi-ans
Posts: 6,169
This thread has only served to make me wonder what friggin language I've been speaking all these years.
#21
Old 11-12-2004, 01:43 PM
BANNED
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: St. Paul, MN
Posts: 58,797
Well those Brits don't know how to talk English too good. They can't even say "tomato" or "schedule" correctly.
#22
Old 11-12-2004, 01:57 PM
Guest
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: East Bay
Posts: 3,523
Reading this thread keeps making me think of the song Adeste Fidelis. No question on how to pronounce that, right?

Ah-Dess-tay Fee-Day-less

Right? RIGHT?!?!

So it follows that the proper way to say bona fide would be bone-uh fee-day. But I'll keep saying bonafied because otherwise someone might think I'm an overeducated democrat or something.
#23
Old 11-12-2004, 02:05 PM
Guest
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 8,299
Hmmm.

I wonder if Joe Pedant would tell me it's:

ade-eest-ee fide-ee-lis
#24
Old 11-12-2004, 03:12 PM
Guest
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Chicago
Posts: 1,596
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loopydude
Hmmm.

I wonder if Joe Pedant would tell me it's:

ade-eest-ee fide-ee-lis

GAH!

Noooooooooooo...

Stop the madness!

Latin Snob(tm): it's like in the song. Really.

Gah!

(Next thing I know, someone is going to try to claim 'vice versa' is really pronounced wee-kay wear-sah...)

Cheers,
Daphne
#25
Old 11-12-2004, 03:28 PM
Guest
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Amongst the Simi-ans
Posts: 6,169
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaphneBlack

(Next thing I know, someone is going to try to claim 'vice versa' is really pronounced wee-kay wear-sah...)

Cheers,
Daphne

Well, now that you mention it...
#26
Old 11-12-2004, 09:31 PM
Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 5,477
I think we should adjourn this session,

sine die!

Pronounce that one.
#27
Old 11-12-2004, 10:47 PM
Guest
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Dayton, OH
Posts: 1,795
I wasn't too old when Robin Williams sang in the movie "Aladdin":

You got me bona FEE-day, certified
You got a genie for your charge d'affaires

So I've tended to pronounce it that way since. Impressionable eleven-year-old minds, and all that. Then again, I've always liked to confuse the hell out of people by pronouncing "veni, vidi, vici" all latin-y.
#28
Old 11-12-2004, 10:48 PM
BANNED
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: St. Paul, MN
Posts: 58,797
It's SIN-ay DEE-ay but I'm sure someone's going to tell me the Brits say Seenee Dye.
#29
Old 11-13-2004, 12:21 AM
Guest
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: #JOey
Posts: 6,403
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheese Monster
I wasn't too old when Robin Williams sang in the movie "Aladdin":

You got me bona FEE-day, certified
You got a genie for your charge d'affaires
Me too.

"I'm in the mood to help ya, dude!" I love that movie.
#30
Old 11-13-2004, 02:49 AM
Guest
Join Date: May 1999
Location:
Posts: 10,786
I'm a lawyer, and I pronounce it bona fide-rhymes- with-tide. And I laugh derisively and pretentious people who say "bona fee-day." But only to myself, because I am a nice person. Mostly.

You want to hear 1001 pronunciations? Try "voir dire."
#31
Old 11-13-2004, 08:16 AM
Guest
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Concord, Ca.
Posts: 893
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diogenes the Cynic
It's SIN-ay DEE-ay but I'm sure someone's going to tell me the Brits say Seenee Dye.

I Googled sine die and got an audio that pronounced it "sine-uh dah-ee".
Then I went to M-W online. Their first pronunciation was "sine-uh dah-ee".
Their second was "sin-ay dee-ay".

I've always pronounced it "sine-uh dah-ee" ever since I heard the judge in "Inherit the Wind" say it that way. Although I guess you can say it either way, in this case I'll go with Hollywood.
#32
Old 11-13-2004, 10:18 AM
Guest
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Chicago
Posts: 1,596
*sob*

Ok, TellMe, ya got me.

Why can't we all just get along?

[Seen-ay dee-ay]


Daphne
#33
Old 11-13-2004, 11:51 AM
Guest
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Montreal
Posts: 20,201
To mention above, fete isn't "faytay" because it isn't Latin; it's French (fête), and "fett" is (more or less) how it's pronounced in French. "Faytay" (fêté) would be "celebrated", past participle.

Voir dire? Isn't it vwar deer, as in French?

I think part of this is the difference between scholastic and ecclesiastical Latin pronunciation: scholastic Latin has its arcane set of rules, which I believe recently changed, whereas ecclesiastical Latin is basically pronounced as if it were Italian; and they go in and out of fashion. Thus you might have started of saying "ull-tra vyreez", found everyone else saying "ooltrah vee-ress," and changed over just in time to have everyone else saying "ooltrah wee-rayz".
#34
Old 11-13-2004, 02:15 PM
Guest
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 1,480
Quote:
Originally Posted by AveDementia
Did anyone else think of the little Wharvey girls in O Brother, Where Art Thou? when they saw this thread?

"He's bona fide!"

[/self assured little girl nod]

"He's a suitor!"
Yes.
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:59 PM.

Copyright © 2017
Best Topics: is swelling bad kindle charger specs bees bees young daughters panties 210-120 bigbang boobs stoned cat russian guns ww2 roatan message board pubic mounds sphere film explanation aaa sticker brass to galvanized ford key made rocknrolla painting installing colonial charter honda pc800 problems porn message board sick leave messages brittle without nuts antimicrobial irrigation titanium razor blades make a pass a duel constant sniffing annoying 1984 copyright spanking message boards rikaloff vodka review browser lagging shiny metal pan barnes and noble book buyback should i buy a bmw copper coil water heater how much do ice cream trucks make in profit yearly something dead in wall pain after catheter removal i don't like being married how did people wake up before alarm clocks leaving notes on cars illegal honey this one's eating my popcorn popular german songs in america how much mountain dew is too much buy poison ivy seeds why was communism a threat lord farquaad name joke how much does a moped weigh count of monte cristo clothing songs starting with z back of ears smell why does my pee smell like what i eat xanax and grapefruit juice family tree maker for writers can your accent change over time what major arcana am i is zero a finite number best yoga studio names k pax alternate ending roller skating songs of the 70's best way to reheat hot wings sex wearing instead softcup