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#1
Old 07-12-2000, 01:01 AM
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What would happen if you mixed crystal draino with gasoline?
Would it become a poisonous gas, or would it explode?
The Junior Woodchuck Guide is silent on this.
#2
Old 07-12-2000, 01:04 AM
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Sigh

And no, I am not going to try it and find out.
#3
Old 07-12-2000, 01:08 AM
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Chicken.
#4
Old 07-12-2000, 01:12 AM
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OOOhhh. I remember this one. Was it the Anarchist's Cookbook that mentioned that a small prescription bottle full of Drano could be slipped into the gas tank of a car and give you enough time to get away? I forget.

Since I've proven myself one of the worst chemists ever, I'll skip the nuts and bolts and suggest that a gas tank, with Drano carefully introduced, would trade hydrogen for chlorine until you had an All-Star spontaneous combustion, as long as the tank is capped.

Of course, since Regular gasoline receptors have gone the way of the moderate Republican, you'll need to use perforated crack vials to kill your bookie.
#5
Old 07-12-2000, 01:15 AM
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Ummm. Okay. I regret that last paragraph already. Ever write your personal thoughts with the intention of removing them before you post? I'm going to consider that from now on.
#6
Old 07-12-2000, 06:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sofa King
Ummm. Okay. I regret that last paragraph already. Ever write your personal thoughts with the intention of removing them before you post? I'm going to consider that from now on.
I thought it was a good post, but my judgement is in question just now. As I recall, the Anarchist's Cookbook suggested that the Drano be put in a plastic bag which could contain a whole can and still be worked into the tank.
I may be wrong about the recommendation, but it does work that way.

Make sure you use a type of plastic bag that will dissolve in gasoline, but not too fast.

Friends, DO NOT try this at home or anywhere else. The BATF will be after you in a heartbeat.
#7
Old 07-12-2000, 08:36 AM
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What causes the BANG?

If, as you say, it forms hydrogen gas, you might get an explosive mixture, depending on the amount of air in tank, most of which has been displaced by gasoline fumes.

Then you need an ignition source. It might be the heat from the chemical reaction. But Draino is designed to sink through water, so it would certainly sink through gasoline. It would have to heat up all of the gasoline in the tank. Since it is heating the liquid gasoline, and locally, some pure gasoline vapor and hydrogen, there is no BANG. The gasoline vapor, being dense, would displace any hydrogen [tanks are vented]. Are they counting on unvented tanks, where an internal pressure build up could cause the tank to leak?
#8
Old 07-12-2000, 01:44 PM
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I have done this. It just makes a green gas which I assume is chlorine. It is even more interesting and intensely green if you set it on fire after you mix them. I never had a problem with it exploding.

FTR, if some household cleaner said not to mix with some other household chemical, I mixed them. They only produced gas. It may have done more had I put it in a sealed container.

HUGS!
Sqrl
#9
Old 07-12-2000, 03:20 PM
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FTR, if some household cleaner said not to mix with some other household chemical, I mixed them.
It is a violation of federal law to use those products inconsistent with their labelling. It is also immoral, fattening, and will give you big, hairy moles all over your body.

I seem to recall hearing somewhere that you can make napalm by mixing gasoline with orange juice concentrate, but that would probably be illegal as well. Even more so if you tried to pass it off as orange juice.
#10
Old 07-12-2000, 03:27 PM
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You can make napalm out of anything that will cause the gasoline to gel.

I was a juvenile delinquent as a child. I don't think I am any longer... well at least not a juvenile by the strict definition.

HUGS!
Sqrl
#11
Old 07-12-2000, 03:44 PM
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polystyrene comes to mind.
#12
Old 07-12-2000, 03:51 PM
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A college buddy of mine who was in the reserves (if that makes a difference) once told me that laundry detergent (the powdered kind) and gas make a great napalm mix.

Sorry, but I haven't experimented with it, I like all my digits and various senses the way they are.
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#13
Old 07-12-2000, 04:15 PM
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Regarding mixing household chemicals:

IIRC, mixing chlorine bleach and ammonia-based products produces hydrazine gas, which was an early rocket fuel, is toxic, and (obviously) burns quite nicely. It is also, for the record, invisible and heavier than air.

My father's an ER Physician and he gets a few cases every year wherein a fellow reasons that:

Bleach=cleans good
Ammonia=cleans good

Therefore, Bleach + Ammonia = cleans better

Our hero then proceeds to mix these chemicals in his toilet, hoping to remove stubborn stains. He decides to let them work while he scrubs the floor, gets on his hands and knees and starts scrubbing. Meanwhile, the hydrazine builds up, flows over the edge of the toilet bowl, he inhales it, and his wife ends up calling 911 when she finds him passed out.

Not many deaths, apparently, but not a good idea.
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#14
Old 07-12-2000, 04:31 PM
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Once source I heard said that napalm was named for the mixture of naptha and palm kernel oil. Talk about dangerous stuff, it's loaded with cholesterol.
#15
Old 07-12-2000, 06:07 PM
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Hydrazine is absolutely nasty stuff; it was used in the McDonnel-Douglas F15 to allow self starts. It's highly carcinogenic.

Try bleach and brake fluid! lots of smoke.
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#16
Old 07-12-2000, 06:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Vestal Blue
Hydrazine is absolutely nasty stuff; it was used in the McDonnel-Douglas F15 to allow self starts. It's highly carcinogenic.

Try bleach and brake fluid! lots of smoke.
Vestal Blue, I like you! The pyro side of is just can't wait to bleach & brake.

IIRC - The Anarchist Cookbook was a font of information on making flame. I think it recommended Knox unflavored gelatin and gasoline for a really good cocktail. The other really nice recipe was a "White Phosphorus" bomb (hot enough to melt the pavement). I never tried that one.
#17
Old 07-12-2000, 06:34 PM
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Folks, we're moving here from the realm of fuels and accidental household poisons into weapons. Please refrain from discussions of how to construct weapons on this website.
#18
Old 07-12-2000, 08:12 PM
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Normally, I'd just go look under the sink, but there's no Draino available at the moment.
So what, exactly, is the active chemical in Draino, and what else is in it that might be significant? I feel sort of bad asking this, being a chemist and all...feel like I should know this. But it's a long walk to the store.
Anyway, if somebody knows, I might be able to help w/ the mechanism.
#19
Old 07-12-2000, 08:54 PM
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It's sodium hydroxide, ie. lye. About the strongest alkaline substance available for household use. Reacts like hell with anything organic, for instance, the clogs in your pipes.

OK, mister chemist, tell us what happens when it meets petroleum distillates.
#20
Old 07-12-2000, 09:12 PM
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Quote:
Hydrazine is absolutely nasty stuff; it was used in the McDonnel-Douglas F15 to allow self starts. It's highly carcinogenic.
I was working at Edwards AFB when there was a hydrazine spill by the F-16 hangars. Several people were exposed. I was in Ridley Mission Control, so I was nowhere near it. I never did find out what happened to the people who were exposed to the hydrazine.

I worked with a guy who had a friend who liked to make nitro glycerine. The friend would mix up the nitro and put it into little glass ampules. He would put the ampules in ice cube trays, add water, put it in the freezer, and wait for a really hot day. When the day arrived, he'd space the ice-encased ampules of nitro along the street and wait for the ice to melt. Apparently, nitro becomes unstable above 56°F and becomes less so as the temperature increases. My co-worker said that they would spontaneously explode on the hot days after the ice melted. (BTW: This friend would also make "salt mazes" and put slugs into them to see if they could find their way out.)
#21
Old 07-12-2000, 09:33 PM
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Just a note on making nitro...

There are several websites that tell you how you can make nitroglycerine (nope, won't list 'em). Be warned, though, several of them are wrong.

Wrong in the measurements, that is. If you followed some of their recipes, and paid close attention to the chemical reaction, you could go from "It's starting to look waxy," to "My face is missing, and I'm covered with acid" before you knew it.

Should any of you terrorists decide to concoct some home-brewed explosives...start with small amounts.
#22
Old 07-12-2000, 10:47 PM
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Rysdad, it seems the FOAF was successful in his endeavors. (I think it helped that he was a chemistry major.) If one feels the need to "try this at home", it might be an excellent application of the Darwin Principle.

Actually if you want to blow stuff up, join the army.
#23
Old 07-13-2000, 01:05 AM
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Hi I'm an idiot. Well, actually I'm someone born after all the really nasty wars and I've never seen the movie "Platoon." Could someone explain to me how exactly napalm works? Like in what circumstances did they use it in wars?
#24
Old 07-13-2000, 01:10 AM
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Just as a disclaimer

let me say my OP was a scientific question, and not one to elicit advice on homemade weapons. I read about gasoline and Draino in a George Hayduke book, but all he described it as was "quite a reaction". I know about napalm, but I bet some vets could explain it better than I, so........
#25
Old 07-13-2000, 01:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by BrothaTJ
Hi I'm an idiot. Well, actually I'm someone born after all the really nasty wars and I've never seen the movie "Platoon." Could someone explain to me how exactly napalm works? Like in what circumstances did they use it in wars?
To burn stuff. The gasoline/soap flakes part burns forever (and waterdoesn't do anything to dampen it), the aluminum or magnesium filings make it burn really hot, and the sawdust keeps the fire going after all the gas is gone.

Disclaimer: Do not try this at home. The materials and methods mentioned above are as taught in US Army Green Beret training, and are intended for use only in extreme situations (i.e. the jungles of Southeast Asia), and are presented here for ENTERTAINMENT PURPOSES ONLY! (and besides, it's not like you couldn't find it on the web in 15 seconds or so)
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#26
Old 07-13-2000, 01:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Gunslinger

To burn stuff.
Heh yeah ok I gathered that. What i'm askin is how did they apply it, just drop the stuff outta planes? Is it the consistency of slurry? How did they ignite it? etc. Like I said my knowledge of war and all things explosive is limited.
#27
Old 07-13-2000, 12:49 PM
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OK, here's my best guess without sitting down and going throught each compound in both substances (which I don't really have time to do):

Gasoline is mostly mid-sized branched hydrocarbons. NaOH is not really soluble in these type of molecules. Moreover, they're very unreactive (but do burn very well). My first reaction was that you'd just have NaOH on the bottom of a tank of gasoline. Then something occured to me:

Gasoline has a lot of additives in it. First off, one of them might act as a phase-transfer agent, making any reaction happen more quickly.

So here's the reaction that I believe actually happens:
Most likely, one of the additives (or perhaps a substituted hydrocarbon) has an acidic proton. Now, if you ever take solid NaOH and dissolve it in water, you get quite an effective handwarmer--the proton exchange is very exothermic. Same thing for adding water to strong acid (remember how they told you, add acid to water, not vice versa--this is why). So now imagine acid-base reactions--very exothermic; most likely more than enough to ignite gasoline. Burning gas in a closed container = BOOM. Moreover, gasoline vapor is very explosive in and of itself, not to mention within the confines of a gas tank (this is one of the theories on TWA 800, I think). The thing is, because NaOH is not too soluble in gas, well, it gives you some time to run.

So that's my story, and I'm sticking to it (unless somebody has a better one).
Hope this helps.
#28
Old 07-13-2000, 01:02 PM
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Quote:
Heh yeah ok I gathered that. What i'm askin is how did they apply it, just drop the stuff outta planes? Is it the consistency of slurry? How did they ignite it? etc. Like I said my knowledge of war and all things explosive is limited.
Napalm is carried as dropped ordnance. That is, it's a "bomb". I'm not sure about how it's fused, but what basically happens is you have a couple hundred gallons of gas-flavoured Jell-O that's coming down in a tank at about 300 miles an hour. It makes quite a splash.

*thinking of the old Band Aid commercial*

I am stuck on napalm
'Cause napalm sticks to me
#29
Old 07-13-2000, 01:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Johnny L.A.
Quote:
Heh yeah ok I gathered that. What i'm askin is how did they apply it, just drop the stuff outta planes? Is it the consistency of slurry? How did they ignite it? etc. Like I said my knowledge of war and all things explosive is limited.
Napalm is carried as dropped ordnance. That is, it's a "bomb". I'm not sure about how it's fused, but what basically happens is you have a couple hundred gallons of gas-flavoured Jell-O that's coming down in a tank at about 300 miles an hour. It makes quite a splash.

*thinking of the old Band Aid commercial*

I am stuck on napalm
'Cause napalm sticks to me

They drop it in something very closely resembling a streamlined fuel tank (aka "drop tank"). I don't know how it's ignited; a simple contact fuse would work nicely. When it hits, the burning goo splatters nicely.

Now if you wanna really burn something, my dad (this was part of a Special Forces/Grren Beret training course, BTW) once made an incendiary device that burned so hot it sucked all the air out of the corrugated-tin shed it was in, causing the shed to crush like an eggshell (remember Mr. Wizard's boiling-can-in-cold-water-trick?)...I won't go into the methods & materials, but there was a lot of jellied gasoline and magnesium involved.
#30
Old 06-04-2011, 05:06 PM
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LOL... It was never in the ACB

First off, you say you read "The Anarchist Cookbook" and found this recipe? No... this recipe was never in the ACB. It was orginally published in "Don't Get Mad, Get Even" by George Hayduke... It does not work... for Crystal Drano to activate it has to be exposed in COLD water... unless someone has a car running on water or you add water to gas then it just won't work (and yes, I have tried it). The ORIGINAL recipe said "Take a Spalding Ping Pong Ball (IT MUST BE A SPALDING PING PONG BALL TO WORK) and fill it with Crystal Drano (NOT LIQUID), wrap the Ping Pong ball in black electrical tape (THE TAPE IS A FUSE, THE MORE YOU USE, THE LONGER YOU WAIT FOR END RESULTS), insert in gas tank and RUN." That is taking right out of the book... First it calls for a Spalding Pingpong ball... they are 30 mm and even the biggest hole ever in a gas port (the hole for filling) was only 25 mm. Spalding treated there ball with something when this was first published to withstand petrolum products (must be tons of ping pong playing in oil fields) so the balls did not dissolve... if you could find a way other then the ping pong ball to SAFELY get the Crystal Drano to the gas then there is no reaction.... (in my youth, I was sucidal and poured a bottle into a 5 gallon can of LEADED GAS)... Water floats on gas so once the heavy crystals are in the gas, they are protected from any water... that is assuming you weren't dumb enough to add water first... It is and always has been a bull crap rumor... and please, don't get these stupid books and try this stuff at home! Most where written in the 60's by Feds to hurt "Anarchists"... yes... we were that much of a threat... LSD in the Chicago water supply (google it) and all that... Peace and by safe fellow anarchists.
#31
Old 06-04-2011, 05:29 PM
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Wow, who knew zombies were so interested in blowin stuff up.I wouldn't think they could run away fast enough.
#32
Old 06-04-2011, 06:34 PM
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No, it makes for excellent anti-zombie repellent-anybody got some, because we seem to have a lot of the buggers lurching about here lately.
#33
Old 06-04-2011, 07:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankthetank42 View Post
... Water floats on gas ...
#34
Old 06-04-2011, 10:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Myrr21 View Post
OK, here's my best guess without sitting down and going throught each compound in both substances (which I don't really have time to do):

Gasoline is mostly mid-sized branched hydrocarbons. NaOH is not really soluble in these type of molecules. Moreover, they're very unreactive (but do burn very well). My first reaction was that you'd just have NaOH on the bottom of a tank of gasoline. Then something occured to me:

Gasoline has a lot of additives in it. First off, one of them might act as a phase-transfer agent, making any reaction happen more quickly.

So here's the reaction that I believe actually happens:
Most likely, one of the additives (or perhaps a substituted hydrocarbon) has an acidic proton. Now, if you ever take solid NaOH and dissolve it in water, you get quite an effective handwarmer--the proton exchange is very exothermic. Same thing for adding water to strong acid (remember how they told you, add acid to water, not vice versa--this is why). So now imagine acid-base reactions--very exothermic; most likely more than enough to ignite gasoline. Burning gas in a closed container = BOOM. Moreover, gasoline vapor is very explosive in and of itself, not to mention within the confines of a gas tank (this is one of the theories on TWA 800, I think). The thing is, because NaOH is not too soluble in gas, well, it gives you some time to run.

So that's my story, and I'm sticking to it (unless somebody has a better one).
Hope this helps.
Gasoline is mostly aliphatic hydrocarbons, parafins, mostly unreactive except for burning once ignited. Draino is mostly sodium hydroxide. I can't write an equation for a likely reaction at room temperature for them. Now, there is all the other stuff, aluminum, magnesium, aromatics, and these days, ethanol. Since I don't know what all may be in either, It is hard to say what might happen. I see no likely source for any chlorine. I don't know if there would be enough moisture to start the hydrogen evolution.

There was a time before restrictor plates to keep out leaded gas that you could have filled a tank with golf balls. Cutting a hole in a ping pong ball to add the drano would have allowed the gasoline into the ping pong ball.

Until somebody posts some equations showing a plausible reaction, I am buying your story.

Perhaps after coconuts go in the fire, somebody can try Draino in gasoline. Arrange with a reliable non witness to report results if needed.
#35
Old 06-05-2011, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankthetank42 View Post
... Water floats on gas so once the heavy crystals are in the gas,...
You meant the opposite of that right?
#36
Old 06-05-2011, 01:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2gigch1 View Post
Wow, who knew zombies were so interested in blowin stuff up.
Is there anybody who doesn’t like to blow up stuff (especially in this crowd)?

The way it was explained to me (by a nutcase) is this: you take an empty gelatin capsule and fill half of it with elemental sodium and the other half with a suitably-sized piece of lead. The lead just acts as weight. Then you throw it in the gent’s gas tank. No need to scurry away at this point. There’s water at the bottom of every gas tank. Needless to say, the capsule will dissolve. This is the Dope, so I don’t need to school anybody on the products of the reaction between sodium and water. Supposedly, the car won’t blow until the ignition is activated. I was also told that “this is how all professionals do it.” ( . )
#37
Old 06-05-2011, 04:15 PM
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I fail to understand how adding a little hydrogen to a space filled with gasoline fumes creates a problem.
#38
Old 06-05-2011, 04:20 PM
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As do I. The only thing I can pull out of my ass at the moment is that carburetors are designed to combust gas fumes, not hydrogen, so the introduction of H into the mix makes the whole thing go kablooey.
#39
Old 06-05-2011, 07:05 PM
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Gas enters the carburetor as a liquid, sucked from the bottom of the tank.
#40
Old 06-05-2011, 07:16 PM
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Well so much for that theory, then.
#41
Old 06-18-2011, 08:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Washoe View Post
Is there anybody who doesn’t like to blow up stuff (especially in this crowd)?

The way it was explained to me (by a nutcase) is this: you take an empty gelatin capsule and fill half of it with elemental sodium and the other half with a suitably-sized piece of lead. The lead just acts as weight. Then you throw it in the gent’s gas tank. No need to scurry away at this point. There’s water at the bottom of every gas tank. Needless to say, the capsule will dissolve. This is the Dope, so I don’t need to school anybody on the products of the reaction between sodium and water. Supposedly, the car won’t blow until the ignition is activated. I was also told that “this is how all professionals do it.” ( . )
If there is water at the bottom of every gas tank, then there I'd your drain reaction too. The aluminum in Draino reacts with the sodium hydroxide and water to make hydrogen. Whether it actually makes enough to explode is a different question. It will generate plenty of heat though.

I'm a bit skeptical that there is water at the bottom of every gas tank. The ethanol in gas may be enough to do the same thing.
#42
Old 06-19-2011, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by WarmNPrickly View Post
The aluminum in Draino reacts with the sodium hydroxide and water to make hydrogen. Whether it actually makes enough to explode is a different question. It will generate plenty of heat though.
It will make enough to inflate a condom. Said condom will have enough lift to support a lit cigarette. If you make the cigarette short enough, it will detonate the H before enough leaks out that condom-Hindenburg settles to ground.
#43
Old 06-19-2011, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by SqrlCub View Post
I have done this. It just makes a green gas which I assume is chlorine.
Zombies don't have to worry about chlorine, but chlorine is an odorless, colorless gas.
#44
Old 06-19-2011, 01:32 PM
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So why did Sir Humphry Davy name it chlorine? cite http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/chlorine
#45
Old 06-19-2011, 02:22 PM
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Chlorine is neither odorless nor colorless. It is green with a very pungent odor.
#46
Old 06-20-2011, 11:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kidchameleon View Post
Zombies don't have to worry about chlorine, but chlorine is an odorless, colorless gas.
*points and laughs...*
#47
Old 06-20-2011, 12:02 PM
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Huh, what was I thinking of?
#48
Old 06-20-2011, 02:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kidchameleon View Post
Huh, what was I thinking of?
Hydrogen filled flaming condoms, probably. After a quick googling, it appears that aluminum and lye would work in a reasonable amount of time as follows:

2 Al + 6 H2O ----> 2 Al(OH)3 + 3 H2
#49
Old 06-21-2011, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by kidchameleon View Post
Huh, what was I thinking of?
It sounds like methane or carbon monoxide.
#50
Old 06-21-2011, 04:30 PM
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tablet chlorine (like for swimming pools) and brake fluid makes a nice green spontaneous flame (misspent youth around both)
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