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#1
Old 05-30-2006, 11:07 PM
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Hank Hill's dad has no shins. Is that reasonable?

I just finished watching the episode of King of the Hill where Peggy Hill is recovering from a skydiving accident. As part of the plot she is being motivated by Hank Hill's war-hero dad Cotton (sp?). His shins were shot out in the pacific theater of WWII. As a result they removed his shins and he basically walks around with feet on his knees. I think his feet actually work.
Is this a documented type of injury? I have never seen anything like it.
#2
Old 05-30-2006, 11:46 PM
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Absolutely not. Cotton lost his shins fighting the Japanese army in World War II. I don't have a citation, but I think that the first successful reattachment of an amputated limb happened in the late 1970s. Microsurgery didn't exist in the Forties, and field hospitals wouldn't have the time to perform one. His losing his shins in The Big One is just a way of adding absurdity to an already absurd character.

SPOILER:
(BTW, I love "Cotton's Plot", and how he lives up to his promise by dancing the Tennessee Waltz with Peggy on his gravesite.
.
#3
Old 05-30-2006, 11:51 PM
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So could it happen nowadays? And why don't many characters change clothes ever?
#4
Old 05-30-2006, 11:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sleeping mud
So could it happen nowadays?
Not really. We still have most of the muscles, nerves and blood vessels needed to use our feet for grasping, and as a result the ankle is pretty different from the knee. Getting all the parts to match up would be pretty much impossible.
#5
Old 05-31-2006, 12:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sleeping mud
So could it happen nowadays? And why don't many characters change clothes ever?
That's normal for animation. It makes the characters easier to animate since they don't have design new clothes over and over again. It makes a good counter-weight to the gigantic wardrobes most sitcom characters have.
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#6
Old 05-31-2006, 01:50 AM
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Actually, there are two bones in the lower legs, separating the knee from the ankle. The "shin bone" is the tibia, and behind it is the fibula. I guess, theoretically, the tibia could be removed, leaving only the fibula. But I doubt if you could do much with your legs.
#7
Old 05-31-2006, 02:25 AM
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There's a procedure (I guess pretty much the opposite of in this show) called a rotationplasty, where someone whose knee must be removed (IIRC usually to bone cancer), can have their ankle serve as a knee joint. The foot is re-attached backwards, which apparently allows more normal use of artificial legs.

(My expertise in this area comes from the Discovery Channel and TLC, so double-check before you scrub up.)
#8
Old 05-31-2006, 04:39 AM
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I always assumed he lost his legs at the shins. Saying "My dad lost his shins" instead of "My dad lost his feet and lower legs" just seemed like one of the show's idiosyncricities.
#9
Old 05-31-2006, 05:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nanoda
There's a procedure (I guess pretty much the opposite of in this show) called a rotationplasty, where someone whose knee must be removed (IIRC usually to bone cancer), can have their ankle serve as a knee joint. The foot is re-attached backwards, which apparently allows more normal use of artificial legs.

(My expertise in this area comes from the Discovery Channel and TLC, so double-check before you scrub up.)

I've seen this a couple of times. It's rather shocking to see if you don't expect it.
#10
Old 05-31-2006, 07:49 AM
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Rotationplasty pictures. Don't click on the link if pictures of someone with their foot and lower leg attached backwards to their thigh is likely to upset you.

Better function than an above knee amputation, but cosmetically not as appealing.
#11
Old 05-31-2006, 10:29 AM
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I pondered the same question. I think Cotton just puts shoes on his stumps. Or maybe has shinless prostheses. But not functioning feet.
#12
Old 05-31-2006, 10:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irishgirl
Better function than an above knee amputation, but cosmetically not as appealing.
How does a surgeon decide which procedure to offer a patient in situations like these?

Or would both options (the rotationplasty and above-knee amputation) be presented and left for the patient to decide?

If both options are presented, how is the patient aided in the decision making process?
#13
Old 06-01-2006, 05:15 AM
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I would imagine that rotationplasty is only offered in very specific situations (where the lower leg is healthy, but the knee is severely damaged), and only by surgeons competent and experienced in the procedure.

Usually, if it is appropriate for them to do more than one procedure and a choice must be made, the doctor would present both options to the patient, presenting all the pros and cons, with a suggestion of what they feel would be in that particular patient's best interest. Of course, if the surgeon feels for one reason or another that one procedure is not advisable, they will recommend only a single course of action.

I would think that in the case of rotationplasty versus above-knee amputation, the patient would be given literature and would probably also be given an opportunity to talk to the medical prosthetiscist, an occupational therapist and physiotherapist, and if possible, to people who have had both procedures.

Ultimately, if the surgeon is willing and able to do both procedures (or to refer to someone who is), the final decision is left up to the patient, who is given as much information and time as is possible (depending on the urgency of their medical situation) to make the decision that suits them best.
#14
Old 06-01-2006, 07:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irishgirl
Better function than an above knee amputation, but cosmetically not as appealing.
Maybe I'm just weird, but when talking about "amputation" my mind focuses a lot more on function than cosmetics. No amputation is going to look normal, and no matter what you do someone would find it freakish. Being able to walk and function, however, is something medicine can do something about these days. "Pretty" can take a back seat to "it works", at least for me.

Moving right along - with the Hank Hill thing, my initial reaction to the "no shins" thing was "huh?". Then I settled on one of the bones of the lower leg being gone, with the other intact. Dunno how that would work in real life, though - but hey, this is a cartoon. It doesn't have to reflect reality.

And finally - my husband doesn't have a right shin, but his leg wasn't amputated. He lost the bones below the knee on that side and they were replaced by titanium and plastic on the inside, with an artificial ankle. He's been walking on it for over twenty years now. Dunno if you can walk with no shins but he's proof you can get by on one.
#15
Old 06-01-2006, 07:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Broomstick
Maybe I'm just weird, but when talking about "amputation" my mind focuses a lot more on function than cosmetics. No amputation is going to look normal, and no matter what you do someone would find it freakish. Being able to walk and function, however, is something medicine can do something about these days. "Pretty" can take a back seat to "it works", at least for me.
Aesthetics are a very important outcome. It's no good being able to walk (or whatever) but unable to leave the house because you are so self-conscious about what you think people will think, say or act. Sometimes there's no alternative, but in this case a surgeon and patient would have to weigh up the pros and cons (as irishgirl says).
#16
Old 06-01-2006, 10:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Broomstick
Moving right along - with the Hank Hill thing, my initial reaction to the "no shins" thing was "huh?". Then I settled on one of the bones of the lower leg being gone, with the other intact. Dunno how that would work in real life, though - but hey, this is a cartoon. It doesn't have to reflect reality.
Nope, he's shorter now, and his legs go straight from the knee to the ankle. <foghorn leghorn>It's a joke, son, ah say a joke</fl>
#17
Old 06-01-2006, 02:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalhoun
I pondered the same question. I think Cotton just puts shoes on his stumps. Or maybe has shinless prostheses. But not functioning feet.
I seem to recall scenes of him in recovery from losing his shins in which he did have feet.

Another Q- does Hank have pre-WWII memories of a tall Cotton?
#18
Old 06-01-2006, 02:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Broomstick
Maybe I'm just weird, but when talking about "amputation" my mind focuses a lot more on function than cosmetics. No amputation is going to look normal, and no matter what you do someone would find it freakish. Being able to walk and function, however, is something medicine can do something about these days. "Pretty" can take a back seat to "it works", at least for me.
Did you check out irishgirl's links?

If I was in a situation where that procedure was offered to me, I'm pretty sure I would a) spent about two weeks curled up in a fetal position, then b) need about another month to think about whether I could wake up every morning for the rest of my life and look down at my foot attached backward.

I have no idea what I'd ultimately decide. I guess I'd probably come around to the practical point of view, but gee whillickers!
#19
Old 06-01-2006, 06:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FriarTed
Another Q- does Hank have pre-WWII memories of a tall Cotton?
Well, Hank was born post-WWII, but Hank did tell Peggy (in the episode referenced in the OP, when Peggy doubts Cotton's heroism), "Look, all I know is that before the war, he was 6' 4"."
#20
Old 06-01-2006, 08:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Szlater
Aesthetics are a very important outcome. It's no good being able to walk (or whatever) but unable to leave the house because you are so self-conscious about what you think people will think, say or act.
Two words: "long skirts"

If I was able to go out in public with an inch-and-a-half long bleeding, oozing, puss-dripping gouge on my cheek and half my face covered in bandages for three months I could probably handle a backwards foot. Of the two, to me the wrong-way foot looks a lot less upleasent from an "aesthetic" point of view, not to mention probably not as painful once the healing up is done.
#21
Old 06-01-2006, 08:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Amazing
Well, Hank was born post-WWII, but Hank did tell Peggy (in the episode referenced in the OP, when Peggy doubts Cotton's heroism), "Look, all I know is that before the war, he was 6' 4"."
Not Hank's memory per se, but they've shown flashbacks of Cotton in the war where he had regular legs.
#22
Old 06-01-2006, 09:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jet Jaguar
Not Hank's memory per se, but they've shown flashbacks of Cotton in the war where he had regular legs.

And it's not like Hank hasn't seen pictures of his dad from before he lost his shins.

BTW, am I the only one who thinks of Cotton when I hear about rapper 50 cent? Since everyone calls him "Fiddy", all I can think of is Cotton yelling, "I killed fiddy men!"
#23
Old 06-01-2006, 10:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Guinastasia
BTW, am I the only one who thinks of Cotton when I hear about rapper 50 cent? Since everyone calls him "Fiddy", all I can think of is Cotton yelling, "I killed fiddy men!"
Does that mean Fiddy Cent is a Nazzy?
#24
Old 06-02-2006, 05:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Broomstick
Two words: "long skirts"

If I was able to go out in public with an inch-and-a-half long bleeding, oozing, puss-dripping gouge on my cheek and half my face covered in bandages for three months I could probably handle a backwards foot. Of the two, to me the wrong-way foot looks a lot less upleasent from an "aesthetic" point of view, not to mention probably not as painful once the healing up is done.
I know from personal experience that it's not always as easy as that, especially when the issue at hand is a permanent disfiguration. Covering up the affected area doesn't stop you from knowing what's different about you, even if other people tell you that no one else notices.
#25
Old 06-02-2006, 06:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalhoun
I pondered the same question. I think Cotton just puts shoes on his stumps. Or maybe has shinless prostheses. But not functioning feet.
The episode where the family goes to Japan to meet the woman Cotton slept with during the war is on now. When Cotton meets her again (for the first time since the war) she says something like, "I'm glad to see your feet did not fall off, as predicted."
#26
Old 06-02-2006, 08:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Szlater
I know from personal experience that it's not always as easy as that, especially when the issue at hand is a permanent disfiguration. Covering up the affected area doesn't stop you from knowing what's different about you, even if other people tell you that no one else notices.
I know that, too - that gash I mentioned left a permanent scar on my face, you know? Everyone says they never notice it, but I see it every time I look in the mirror.

Granted, it's nowhere near like losing a limb, but I think I know myself well enough by now that for me I'd choose "works better" over "looks prettier". YMMV and all that.
#27
Old 03-20-2011, 10:52 PM
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Originally Posted by alphaboi867 View Post
That's normal for animation. It makes the characters easier to animate since they don't have design new clothes over and over again. It makes a good counter-weight to the gigantic wardrobes most sitcom characters have.
I have some new steel toe work boots that look just like Hanks. They are from RedWing. Wonder if that's what he's wearing?
#28
Old 03-20-2011, 11:20 PM
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If I was able to go out in public with an inch-and-a-half long bleeding, oozing, puss-dripping gouge on my cheek and half my face covered in bandages for three months
Let me guess: A landing you were able to walk away from?

(no need to answer if you don't want to)
#29
Old 03-21-2011, 06:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Chronos View Post
Let me guess: A landing you were able to walk away from?

(no need to answer if you don't want to)
Broomsticks thread the incredible zit story starts at post 44

Don't eat anything white and creamy while reading, really.
#30
Old 03-21-2011, 06:37 AM
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Shiiiiiiins!
#31
Old 03-21-2011, 08:25 AM
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Perhaps only zombies have feet on their knees.
#32
Old 03-21-2011, 04:00 PM
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I may be the only one thinking this - If I had my feet (foot) on backwards; I'd never have to buy a drink in a bar again!
#33
Old 03-21-2011, 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Kalhoun View Post
I pondered the same question. I think Cotton just puts shoes on his stumps. Or maybe has shinless prostheses. But not functioning feet.
I knew a projectionist who was known as 'Stumpy'. Both his legs were amputated at the knee, I think as result of service in Korea. He would stick his stumps in shoes and walk around that way. His personality was close to Cotton's also. I imagine losing the lower half of your legs tends to make someone a bit grumpy.
#34
Old 03-21-2011, 05:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Nanoda View Post
There's a procedure (I guess pretty much the opposite of in this show) called a rotationplasty, where someone whose knee must be removed (IIRC usually to bone cancer), can have their ankle serve as a knee joint. The foot is re-attached backwards, which apparently allows more normal use of artificial legs.

(My expertise in this area comes from the Discovery Channel and TLC, so double-check before you scrub up.)
Nanoda, you're correct - I went to high school with someone who had this exact procedure done. His lower leg had been amputated (for what, I'm not certain; I vaguely remember that it was cancer, but I could very well be mistaken. His foot had been reattached to the remainder backwards and fit into a special prosthesis to allow range of motion. He walked with a limp, but I'm certain it was better than the alternative. I don't remember him in any sports, but I did see him running more than once.
#35
Old 03-21-2011, 05:02 PM
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Hmm. Didn't see this was a zombie. There's lots of them popping up recently, aren't there?
#36
Old 03-22-2011, 08:43 PM
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Wasn't there an episode of the Simpsons where they showed either Homer or Bart opening their closet to reveal like twenty identical shirts?
#37
Old 03-22-2011, 10:49 PM
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What about Hank having "diminished gluteal syndrome" -- basically, he doesn't have an ass. So he has to use a prosthetic butt. (Cotton: "You're wearin' butt-boobies!")

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lumpy View Post
Wasn't there an episode of the Simpsons where they showed either Homer or Bart opening their closet to reveal like twenty identical shirts?
I don't remember that, but there was one where they were out shopping, and Bart pointed out that there was a rack that had nothing but Marge's "dresses". She saw a blue one and was like, "no thank you!"
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