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#1
Old 05-26-2009, 09:58 AM
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So, everyone hates Lefty?

Both on these boards and elsewhere I have regularly heard folks claim that Phil Mickelson is generally considered to be a jerk by his peers. I have regularly requested, but never been provided, any credible/reliable evidence of the claim.

Thought of that this weekend when I saw all the players wearing pink in recognition of Phil's wife's recent diagnosis. And during the winner's interview Rocco talked of what his "good friends" were going through.

So, do the fellow pros love Amy but despise her husband?
Are they wearing pink just because they are image-conscious and considered it to their personal benefit?
Were they honoring all breast cancer victims?
Was there an edict from on high?
Or are the unsupported claims that Phil is a generally disliked dick actually bullshit?

(Was talking with a guy on the course yesterday, and the only thing he had to offer was that he heard Phil is a great tipper, whereas Tiger is a cheapass.)
#2
Old 05-26-2009, 11:26 AM
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GQ polled professional athletes to find the least popular among their peers. Here's what they said about Phil, who of course "won" least popular golfer.

Quote:
8. Phil Mickelson

Last August at the PGA Championship at Baltusrol, in New Jersey, a reporter turned to a golfer on the tour and said of Phil Mickelson, “Man, the fans here love Phil.” The golfer replied, “They don’t know him the way we do.” It blew our minds a little when we heard this, since Mickelson ranks among the most admired golfers in America. But today the same reporter makes his case bluntly: “Phil Mickelson literally has no friends out there. He annoys everybody.”

Mickelson has earned many nicknames on the Tour, but our favorite is FIGJAM (Fuck, I’m good—just ask me). “There are a bunch of pros who think he and his whole smiley, happy face are a fraud,” another reporter says. “They think he’s preening and insincere.” Mickelson has aggressively pursued a family-man image that is crucial to his success as an endorser. In 1999, when he nearly won the U.S. Open, Mickelson wore a beeper onto the fairway to alert him when his wife went into labor. If the beeper went off during the final round, he announced, he would simply walk off the course. Some of Mickelson’s peers, smelling a PR stunt, badly wanted to call his bluff. “Everybody’s saying, ‘Oh God, I want that beeper to go off,’ ” recalls one writer. (It didn’t.)

In 2003, Mickelson violated multiple taboos when he told a reporter that Tiger Woods was playing with “inferior equipment” and that he envied Mickelson’s longer drives from the tee. Woods was infuriated. “You just don’t say shit like that in golf,” says a reporter. (To be fair, another reporter says, “Phil was right.”)

Shortly before the 2004 Ryder Cup, though, Mickelson abruptly switched from Titleist to Callaway equipment. He left himself little time to get used to the new balls and clubs. “It wasn’t in the best interest of the team,” says a reporter. “The only thing that it was in the best interest of was his financial gain.” The contract paid a reported $7 million to $10 million annually. “What it did was set up a bull’s-eye on him if he played poorly,” says a different reporter. “Which he did.”

Most recently, Mickelson blew off the 2005 Tour Championship, though the PGA was in the midst of negotiating its new TV contract. One reporter says, “The Tour was trying to come up with a plan that would make the networks happy, so it wouldn’t have to give back a lot of money, and here’s the number three player in the world skipping the premier season-ending event. Other players said, ‘How about helping the rest of us who aren’t as rich?’ ” Adds another reporter: “It’s like not showing up for somebody’s wedding.”
http://men.style.com/gq/features/ful...4103&pageNum=2
#3
Old 05-26-2009, 11:42 AM
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Yeah, I've seen that article, and it is about the strongest "proof" tha I've seen. A couple of quotes attributed to a couple of un-named golfers and journalists. And the situations they describe seem no more significant than could easily be attributed to so many other golfers. Sergio's whining, Veej's criticism, Ryder Cup members complaining about not being compensated and declining invitations to the White House...

So, the golfers all think Phil is a dick, and nevertheless wear pink. Why?
#4
Old 05-26-2009, 11:50 AM
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I'm not sure it is such a contradiction for Phil to be unpopular and yet for the players to wear pink after his wife was diagnosed. I can still feel sympathy for a tragedy befalling someone I don't particularly like, and besides, I'm sure most people have someone close to them who has fought cancer, so its a subject near and dear.

I don't know whether the GQ article is truth, fiction, or somewhere in between, but I don't think his popularity can be judged one way or the other by virtue of a show of support or solidarity over Amy's cancer.

Or, third option: he used to be an unpopular dick and has changed. Who knows?
#5
Old 05-26-2009, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Dinsdale View Post
Yeah, I've seen that article, and it is about the strongest "proof" tha I've seen. A couple of quotes attributed to a couple of un-named golfers and journalists. And the situations they describe seem no more significant than could easily be attributed to so many other golfers. Sergio's whining, Veej's criticism, Ryder Cup members complaining about not being compensated and declining invitations to the White House...

So, the golfers all think Phil is a dick, and nevertheless wear pink. Why?
Maybe they like Amy?
#6
Old 05-26-2009, 12:24 PM
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FTR, I think Sabbatini has close personal friends who have been affected by breast cancer.

IMO, I think some peers resent Lefty because he is so fan friendly, he goes the extra mile to sign autographs and make eye contact and smile and the golf fans. Many pro golfers don't like the intrusion and they look bad in comparison.

Me: There is no other golfer that I would rather watch play. He is simply the most exciting golfer on earth. The Ford as campaign from a few years ago hit the nail on the head. "What will Phil do next?
#7
Old 05-26-2009, 02:20 PM
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Arnie excited the masses by going for broke in tight situations. I like it that Phil goes full bore and tries difficult shots. So does Tiger. Most of us remember Tiger shooting from a trap over water to set up a tournament win. it is good TV. We like gamblers. We like risk takers. We like exciting and wild tournies. Phil provides that. Tiger provides that. I don't care about his personal life. A lot of athletes think they are special. I expect it from them.
#8
Old 05-26-2009, 02:34 PM
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The joke I've heard is "What's the difference between Phil and Amy Mickelson? - On Phil, the tits are real and the simile's fake".

Implying that Amy's smile is real, of course. But yeah, Amy seems to be genuinely well liked, while Phil is not. Reasons are many, but don't forget Phil was a hotshot youth player with the accompanying teenage ego. A lot of these players came up the amateur ranks together and they have long memories.
#9
Old 05-26-2009, 06:14 PM
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In short: you can wear pink in sympathy and support even if you don't particularly like someone. It's good for your own image, you don't need to like someone to sympathize with them, and you might like his wife better than you do him.
#10
Old 05-27-2009, 01:33 PM
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Or, in short, tour members as a whole tend to be driven, super-competitive folk with little personality or particular intelligence on subjects other than golf, and their alleged dislike for Lefty has been grossly exaggerated.

If anything, I suspect they are likely jealous of his tremendous success.

Just my opinion - but as well supported as that GQ article wholly dependant on un-named sources.

Last edited by Dinsdale; 05-27-2009 at 01:33 PM.
#11
Old 05-27-2009, 02:09 PM
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Most people are able to overlook somebody's personal faults in the face of a larger tragedy. I think Mike Tyson's an asshole but he has my sympathy this week.
#12
Old 05-27-2009, 02:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dinsdale View Post
Or, in short, tour members as a whole tend to be driven, super-competitive folk with little personality or particular intelligence on subjects other than golf, and their alleged dislike for Lefty has been grossly exaggerated.

If anything, I suspect they are likely jealous of his tremendous success.

Just my opinion - but as well supported as that GQ article wholly dependant on un-named sources.
It hasn't been exaggerated. It sounds like you really want it to be false, but it isn't, in my experience. I'm not going to drop numerous names here, but I know several people who have been around golf, the PGA, and Phil since he was in high school. None of them have anything good to say about him. It isn't just players and it isn't jealousy. The same people have nothing but glowing things to say about Tiger and his wife.
#13
Old 05-27-2009, 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Labrador Deceiver View Post
None of them have anything good to say about him.
This isn't true, so I should take it back. They think Phil is an excellent PR man who has done a wonderful job cultivating an image for himself, his sponsors, and the PGA tour. He is good for golf.
#14
Old 05-27-2009, 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Labrador Deceiver View Post
It hasn't been exaggerated. It sounds like you really want it to be false, but it isn't, in my experience. I'm not going to drop numerous names here, but I know several people who have been around golf, the PGA, and Phil since he was in high school. None of them have anything good to say about him. It isn't just players and it isn't jealousy. The same people have nothing but glowing things to say about Tiger and his wife.

Well, I guess that resolves it!

Really, I couldn't care one way or the other. Hell, I disingenuous or not, IMO Phil interacts with the fans in a manner preferale to Lord Tiger. But I'll never be a huge fan of his simply because he has let me down too many times.

The main thing that bothers me is the absolute lack of specificity to support the allegations. In my opinion, it is pretty damned gutless to spread negative pub about someone, but to lack the balls to identify yourself or provide any specifics. (I'm not talking about you, but instead the players who have been willing to dish dirt anonymously, and the press who've been eager to spread anonymous dirt.)

As I said, I suspect the vast majority of tour members would impress me as hyper-competitive egomaniacs, with a good measure of ultra-conservative bible-thumpers tossed in.
#15
Old 05-27-2009, 03:10 PM
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Phil Mickelson: A Hated Man?

Here's another article saying the same things.

Phil Mickelson is one of the three most popular golfers in the world with spectators. Only Tiger Woods and John Daly match Mickelson in the level of adulation heaped on him by golf fans. The fans love Lefty.

But his peers do not. That's long been known to media members who cover golf, and to fans who are connoisseurs of PGA Tour gossip. Mickelson battles Sergio Garcia, among others, when it comes to the title of Tour player least-liked by other golfers.


...

On the opposite end of the scale is Vijay Singh, who has never been very popular with fans - but is one of the most well-liked players on Tour
.
#16
Old 05-27-2009, 03:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dinsdale View Post
Well, I guess that resolves it!

Really, I couldn't care one way or the other. Hell, I disingenuous or not, IMO Phil interacts with the fans in a manner preferale to Lord Tiger. But I'll never be a huge fan of his simply because he has let me down too many times.

The main thing that bothers me is the absolute lack of specificity to support the allegations. In my opinion, it is pretty damned gutless to spread negative pub about someone, but to lack the balls to identify yourself or provide any specifics. (I'm not talking about you, but instead the players who have been willing to dish dirt anonymously, and the press who've been eager to spread anonymous dirt.)

As I said, I suspect the vast majority of tour members would impress me as hyper-competitive egomaniacs, with a good measure of ultra-conservative bible-thumpers tossed in.
There aren't very many bible thumpers, to be honest. There are certainly a few, but less than you would find in, say, football. Almost all are hyper-competitive (I have no idea how a moderately competitive person could ever hope to be successful as a professional athlete), but the vast majority of players I've come into contact with are not ego maniacs. Most players on tour are rather obscure people who are unknown to the general public.

I'm not sure why you're rolling eyes at me over my post. I don't think anything I said warranted such a snide attitude from you, but maybe so. Of course, it would help if you would actually point out what it was you didn't like. Emoticons are really neat-o, but they don't do much to clear the waters.
#17
Old 05-27-2009, 03:54 PM
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I'll help you out: he doesn't like evidence proving him wrong in his pre-conceived assumptions.

Seriously, I'm sure that the reported dislike of Lefty is greater than the actual level of dislike. I would be willing to bet that, as with most things, the louder detractors get the lion's share of the attention. So, as with most people, he will have good friends, he will have people who generally like him, but don't know him well, he will have people who are ambivalent about him, he will have people who dislike him some, but don't really think about it much and he will have those who dislike him a lot, and whose opinions can best be summed up by the language used by Wood's caddy, "He's a prick."

For Mickelson, I would think that evidence shows the skew on the grouping is towards the "dislike" end of the spectrum. And remember, these guys spend a LOT of time around each other.
#18
Old 05-27-2009, 04:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Dinsdale View Post
Well, I guess that resolves it!
It looks to me like it DOES resolve it. In your OP you state "I have regularly requested, but never been provided, any credible/reliable evidence of the claim."

It looks to me like some pretty reliable evidence has been given. How about turning the question around. Can anyone provide any credible/reliable evidence that Phil Mickelson is generally considered to be a nice guy by his colleagues?
#19
Old 05-27-2009, 08:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Lamar Mundane View Post
Phil Mickelson: A Hated Man?

Here's another article saying the same things.

Phil Mickelson is one of the three most popular golfers in the world with spectators. Only Tiger Woods and John Daly match Mickelson in the level of adulation heaped on him by golf fans. The fans love Lefty.

But his peers do not. That's long been known to media members who cover golf, and to fans who are connoisseurs of PGA Tour gossip. Mickelson battles Sergio Garcia, among others, when it comes to the title of Tour player least-liked by other golfers.


...

On the opposite end of the scale is Vijay Singh, who has never been very popular with fans - but is one of the most well-liked players on Tour
.

That's pretty much what I've always heard. I have never met any of the players, so I have no first-hand knowledge of whether Vijay is really a great guy or Phil is really a jerk, but that's always been the scuttlebutt.

Thing is, we fans CAN'T read minds, and we can't know who's really a good person. We can ONLY judge athletes and celebrities by the way they treat us and by the way they behave in public.

So, if Phil Mickelson smiles, talks to fans, and willingly spends time signing autographs, of COURSE fans are going to love him, even if it's all an act. And if Vijay Singh treats fans with icy disdain, of COURSE they're going to dislike him, even if he's a warm, wonderful guy in the locker room.

To use a crude analogy, I don't know what the waitresses at my favorite restaurant are REALLY like. I tip them based on the service and friendliness they give me, NOT on the virtues they exemplify in their private lives. If Susie is a bitch in "real" life, but treats me like a prince while serving me, she gets a big tip. If Tammy is a sweetheart and a delightful person when off-duty, but gives me perfunctory treatment on the job, she deserves to get stiffed.

Fans WANT to like the players on the PGA tour. They WANT to like Vijay Singh. And they WOULD, if he'd show them just a hint of warmth, if he'd spend just a few minutes signing autographs. If he chooses not to, fine- but I don't ever want to hear him griping about hte stupid fans who prefer that "phony" Mickelson.
#20
Old 05-27-2009, 08:32 PM
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Originally Posted by astorian View Post

Fans WANT to like the players on the PGA tour. They WANT to like Vijay Singh. And they WOULD, if he'd show them just a hint of warmth, if he'd spend just a few minutes signing autographs. If he chooses not to, fine- but I don't ever want to hear him griping about hte stupid fans who prefer that "phony" Mickelson.
I assume you're only using Vijay in a hypothetical example. He signs lots of autographs & hasn't been gruff in his attitude towards other golfers on the tour. He's perceived as having a lack of personality, not as a jerk.

In reality, he's funny as shit.
#21
Old 05-27-2009, 11:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Labrador Deceiver View Post
I assume you're only using Vijay in a hypothetical example. He signs lots of autographs & hasn't been gruff in his attitude towards other golfers on the tour. He's perceived as having a lack of personality, not as a jerk.

In reality, he's funny as shit.
Again, I've never met Lefty or Vijay, and have no idea at all what either is really like.

I know only that

1) Fans generally like Phil, who goes out of his way to be accommodating and friendly to fans, but that his colleagues widely consider him a phony.

2) Fans are generally indifferent to Vijay Singh, because he acts completely indifferent to them, but that his colleagues widely consider him a wonderful person.

All I'm saying is, it's silly to expect fans to judge celebrities by "true" personalities they choose never to reveal. Fans can only make superficial judgments. That means they're BOUND to like a celeb who smiles and signs autographs more than a celeb who barely acknowledges their existence, even if the latter celeb is secretly much nicer.

It's entirely possible that, one on one, Vijay Singh is a very kind, charming and funny guy. That means NOTHING to the fan who's never going to meet Vijay one on one, just as it means NOTHING to me that a diffident, brusque waitress spends hours of her spare time doing charity work.

For whatever reason, Phil Mickelson wants very much to be liked by the public, and works hard to win them over. Vijay Singh doesn't seem to care whether the fans like him, and makes almost no effort to win them over.

That's Vijay's choice. He has no obligation to act like Mr. Vivacious, if that's just not in his nature. But his friends in the clubhouse should acknowledge that Vijay is getting exaclty what he deserves from the fans.
#22
Old 05-28-2009, 07:12 AM
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Has anyone said anything differently here? Has anyone complained about how Vijay is treated?

So far as I can tell, no one is complaining because Mickelson is a fan fave. Fellow pros simply consider the fact of his fan fave status evidence that he's phony, since they see another side to him that they believe, if it was shown to the public, would make him much less the fave. But I don't see anyone in this thread saying, "That Phil, boy I get so mad that the fans like him!"
#23
Old 05-28-2009, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by astorian View Post
Again, I've never met Lefty or Vijay, and have no idea at all what either is really like.



For whatever reason, Phil Mickelson wants very much to be liked by the public, and works hard to win them over. Vijay Singh doesn't seem to care whether the fans like him, and makes almost no effort to win them over.

That's Vijay's choice. He has no obligation to act like Mr. Vivacious, if that's just not in his nature. But his friends in the clubhouse should acknowledge that Vijay is getting exaclty what he deserves from the fans.
Sorry, but you don't know what you're talking about. Vijay isn't particularly disliked by fans on tour, he just doesn't generate a great deal of excitement when you watch him on TV. To say he doesn't make an effort to reach out to his fans is ignorant.
#24
Old 05-28-2009, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by DSYoungEsq View Post
I'll help you out: he doesn't like evidence proving him wrong in his pre-conceived assumptions.
Well, counselor, I believe you must be using the words "evidence" and "proof" in the loosest of all possible manners?

The smiley was in response to the general, unattributed nature of the purported "evidence." "One time I heard a guy - whose identity I won't disclose - say XYZ" is in no way "proof" of XYZ. If I cared to, I could create exactly as strong a case for the other side saying, "Oh yeah? well I heard a guy - whose identity I won't disclose - say ABC!" Or I could make a STRONGER case by saying I had heard TWO guys...

LD, you say I know several people who have been around golf, the PGA, and Phil since he was in high school. None of them have anything good to say about him. It isn't just players and it isn't jealousy. I don't expect you to "name names," but certainly you can understand my hesitance to accept such anonymous info on a MB as determinative, can't you? I hope you do not equate my position as accusing you of intentionally lying, because I'm not.

And LM offers: "another article saying the same things." Hell, that's not "another article." It has no content independent of the GQ article!

Should it be so hard for someone to provide a specific incident in which Lefty acted particularly dickishly? I guess I'm a pretty cynical guy, but it always makes me suspect accusations when they are long on generalities, and absolutely lacking in any documentable specifics.

Regarding bible-thumpers - Zach Johnson and Aaron Baddeley come immediately to mind. And it is not at all unusual for Johnny Miller (the Mor[m]on) to mention on telecasts that a particular player is "a very spiritual young man." I've read in the past about golfers' Bible groups, but they may well be notable in their rarity.

Back to the subject of dislike for Lefty: yesterday I was playing with one of the better golfers I know. He said a couple of years ago when the tour was in town he was hanging out with several of the caddies at the hotel where they were staying. He said their unanimous conclusion was that Phil was one of the most arrogant guys on tour - at least in terms of his relations towards other caddies. Said he had nothing to do with or say to any of them, which was extreme - tho by no means unique - for his peers.

In my experience with other industries, truly successful people seem to have little difficulty attracting "friends', no matter how lacking their personality may impress me in on respect or another. My suspicion is that - as DSY says I'm sure that the reported dislike of Lefty is greater than the actual level of dislike.
#25
Old 05-28-2009, 11:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dinsdale View Post

LD, you say I know several people who have been around golf, the PGA, and Phil since he was in high school. None of them have anything good to say about him. It isn't just players and it isn't jealousy. I don't expect you to "name names," but certainly you can understand my hesitance to accept such anonymous info on a MB as determinative, can't you? I hope you do not equate my position as accusing you of intentionally lying, because I'm not.
I'm sorry, I didn't realize you were issuing a challenge. I thought you were looking for information. And I am not talking about "a guy who knows a guy", I am talking first hand information. Your post was not about whether or not Mickelson is an ass, it was about what other players think about him. I am telling you that I have multiple first-hand accounts from players, as well as other people professionally associated with him.

Quote:
"One time I heard a guy - whose identity I won't disclose - say XYZ" is in no way "proof" of XYZ.
When I hear a player say he doesn't like PM, that is most certainly proof that that player doesn't like PM. How that fact escapes you is beyond me.

Quote:
If I cared to, I could create exactly as strong a case for the other side saying, "Oh yeah? well I heard a guy - whose identity I won't disclose - say ABC!" Or I could make a STRONGER case by saying I had heard TWO guys...
No you couldn't. You don't have first hand knowledge of player opinion.

Quote:
My suspicion is that - as DSY says I'm sure that the reported dislike of Lefty is greater than the actual level of dislike.
It isn't. it is very rarely reported that Phil is unliked.
#26
Old 05-28-2009, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Labrador Deceiver View Post
I'm sorry, I didn't realize you were issuing a challenge.
A challenge? I dunno that I ever considered it in such terms. My OP stated simply that I have regularly requested, but never been provided, any credible/reliable evidence of the claim.

You now say:

Quote:
I am not talking about "a guy who knows a guy", I am talking first hand information. Your post was not about whether or not Mickelson is an ass, it was about what other players think about him. I am telling you that I have multiple first-hand accounts from players, as well as other people professionally associated with him.
Now in my book, you are getting closer - tho still somewhat short of - the type of evidence I desired. If ou look back to your 1st post, you simply stated:

Quote:
I'm not going to drop numerous names here, but I know several people who have been around golf, the PGA, and Phil since he was in high school. None of them have anything good to say about him. It isn't just players and it isn't jealousy.
So now you say you have personally reveived such info from players. Thanks. That is - in my mind - closer to reliable info that simply attributing your opinions to "people who have been around golf, the PGA, and Phil." Perhaps I am being overly pedantic, but anyone who has attended a couple of PGA events could be described as having "been around golf, the PGA, and Phil."

Please realize the nature of this discussion, and please understand that I intend no insult. But until an anonymous poster provides SOME detail, I have little reason to accept their claims as reliable. I'm simply stating that I do not know whether you are Tiger Woods, or some 15-year old. And absent any credible detail, I could just as easily express a flat-out lie to the contrary - and I submit our contradictory statements would be of exactly equal probative value to any third party.

I still don't see why it should be so impossible to provide a single representative example of his actions/behaviors/attitudes/statements that would support a general dislike. And if he IS a dick IRL, he sure is one hell of an actor, because to this relatively serious fan, he sure comes across as one of the most personable and friendly guys on tour.
#27
Old 05-28-2009, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Dinsdale View Post
A challenge? I dunno that I ever considered it in such terms. My OP stated simply that I have regularly requested, but never been provided, any credible/reliable evidence of the claim.

You now say:



Now in my book, you are getting closer - tho still somewhat short of - the type of evidence I desired. If ou look back to your 1st post, you simply stated:



So now you say you have personally reveived such info from players. Thanks. That is - in my mind - closer to reliable info that simply attributing your opinions to "people who have been around golf, the PGA, and Phil." Perhaps I am being overly pedantic, but anyone who has attended a couple of PGA events could be described as having "been around golf, the PGA, and Phil."
Which is why I said "It isn't just players", indicating that some of them were.

Quote:

I still don't see why it should be so impossible to provide a single representative example of his actions/behaviors/attitudes/statements that would support a general dislike. And if he IS a dick IRL, he sure is one hell of an actor, because to this relatively serious fan, he sure comes across as one of the most personable and friendly guys on tour.
If you can't see why people aren't willing to come forward and badmouth a fellow golfer, then I can't help you. When was the last time you heard anyone say something bad about another player on tour? It happens, but very mildly and very rarely. If I give you any kind of specifics, any one of the people in question will be immediately recognized by someone in the know. That is even more true of people who aren't players, since the PGA community is pretty darn small.

It isn't hard to put on a good face for the cameras. If it were, then half the celebrities in the world would be exposed fairly quickly. You don't need to be a good actor to say "Hey buddy" and sign an autograph.

In short, I don't care if you believe me at this point. If you want to think there is smoke without a fire, that's fine. I won't lose a wink of sleep if someone thinks Phil is an absolute ace.
#28
Old 05-28-2009, 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Labrador Deceiver View Post
Sorry, but you don't know what you're talking about. Vijay isn't particularly disliked by fans on tour, he just doesn't generate a great deal of excitement when you watch him on TV. To say he doesn't make an effort to reach out to his fans is ignorant.
I have heard that Vijay is still thought of as a cheater for an incident over 20 years ago. Remarks like "once a cheater, always a cheater". come to mind. Seems he always has been an outsider .
#29
Old 05-28-2009, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dinsdale View Post

And LM offers: "another article saying the same things." Hell, that's not "another article." It has no content independent of the GQ article!
That is false. It was written in reference to the GQ article and it quotes it, but the writer offers his own experiences that corroborate the GQ article.

As for unnamed sources, how about Steve Williams, Tiger's caddy?

"...I hate the prick."

As for Vijay Singh, all you have to do is listen to the TV commentators. They often say how well liked he is by tour players and officials.

Last edited by Lamar Mundane; 05-28-2009 at 12:59 PM.
#30
Old 05-28-2009, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by gonzomax View Post
I have heard that Vijay is still thought of as a cheater for an incident over 20 years ago. Remarks like "once a cheater, always a cheater". come to mind. Seems he always has been an outsider .
He has always been somewhat of a loner, but he is well-liked on the tour. I've heard that at least one golfer thinks of him as a cheater, but I don't think that's a commonly held attitude.
#31
Old 05-28-2009, 03:46 PM
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Thanks, all.

I guess I'll have to accept that at least several pro golfers have expressed a dislike for Mick, but are unwilling to identify any specific reason for their dislike.

As far as Steve Williams' opinion, well if we are talking about people who appear to be assholes ...
#32
Old 05-28-2009, 04:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Dinsdale View Post
Thanks, all.

I guess I'll have to accept that at least several pro golfers have expressed a dislike for Mick, but are unwilling to identify any specific reason for their dislike.

As far as Steve Williams' opinion, well if we are talking about people who appear to be assholes ...
You've been given specific reasons, you just want names and anecdotes to go along with them.

Last edited by Labrador Deceiver; 05-28-2009 at 05:00 PM.
#33
Old 05-28-2009, 06:02 PM
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Gosh, I really out not prolong this, but would you please point out the "specific examples"?

All I see are the likes of these:

"None of them have anything good to say about him."

"When I hear a player say he doesn't like PM"

"Fellow pros simply consider the fact of his fan fave status evidence that he's phony, since they see another side to him that they believe, if it was shown to the public, would make him much less the fave."

"But his peers do not. That's long been known to media members who cover golf, and to fans who are connoisseurs of PGA Tour gossip. Mickelson battles Sergio Garcia, among others, when it comes to the title of Tour player least-liked by other golfers."

Phil Mickelson literally has no friends out there. He annoys everybody."

"Mickelson has earned many nicknames on the Tour, but our favorite is FIGJAM ... 'There are a bunch of pros who think he and his whole smiley, happy face are a fraud,' another reporter says. 'They think he’s preening and insincere.'"


And SW thinks he is a prick, and relates an incident when he was heckled.

You don't think those statements lean more towards the general than the specific?
#34
Old 05-28-2009, 06:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Dinsdale View Post
Gosh, I really out not prolong this, but would you please point out the "specific examples"?
Try to keep track of the things you say. You said reasons, not examples.

There are several reasons listed throughout this thread and the linked articles.

Last edited by Labrador Deceiver; 05-28-2009 at 07:00 PM.
#35
Old 05-29-2009, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Labrador Deceiver View Post
Try to keep track of the things you say. You said reasons, not examples.

There are several reasons listed throughout this thread and the linked articles.
Okay, now you are being a dick. Please show me where the word "reasons" appears in any of my posts in this thread?

My OP requested any credible/reliable evidence of the claim [that PM is] generally considered to be a jerk by his peers.

All right, I'll acknowledge that your general allegations may satisfy that. But in the concluding parenthetical to my OP I addressed the example/situation/whatever of tipping.

And in post # 3 I acknowledged the existence of quotes attributed to a couple of un-named golfers and journalists. But I explained that the situations they describe seem no more significant than could easily be attributed to so many other golfers. And then I proceeded to list a few specific examples of what I considered criticizeable behavior.

So please do not rephrase my statements to satisfy whatever your purposes may be. I readily accept your general statements for what they are.
#36
Old 05-29-2009, 09:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dinsdale View Post
Okay, now you are being a dick. Please show me where the word "reasons" appears in any of my posts in this thread?
Gee, that should be difficult.

From post #31:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dinsdale
...several pro golfers have expressed a dislike for Mick, but are unwilling to identify any specific reason for their dislike.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Labrador Deceiver
You've been given specific reasons
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dinsdale
...would you please point out the "specific examples"?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Labrador Deceiver
You said reasons, not examples.

Last edited by Labrador Deceiver; 05-29-2009 at 09:53 AM.
#37
Old 05-29-2009, 10:05 AM
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Not sure why my search didn't turn up that usage in #31. So I retract my claim that I did not use the word "reason" in any of my posts. I should have observed that the word "reason" did not appear in my first 6 posts.

Now, offering extra credit for reading in context, what portion of post #31 constitutes my asking for specific reasons - especially when read in context with my preceeding 6 posts?

I do not wish to continue any pissing match with you or anyone else. And if nothing else this discussion clearly showed me how little I really care about this issue.

So feel free to put in the last word should you wish. The sun is shining, and I oughta be on a golf course (where I provide my fellow golfers AMPLE reasons for thinking me an asshole!)
#38
Old 05-29-2009, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Dinsdale View Post
Not sure why my search didn't turn up that usage in #31. So I retract my claim that I did not use the word "reason" in any of my posts. I should have observed that the word "reason" did not appear in my first 6 posts.

Now, offering extra credit for reading in context, what portion of post #31 constitutes my asking for specific reasons - especially when read in context with my preceeding 6 posts?

I do not wish to continue any pissing match with you or anyone else. And if nothing else this discussion clearly showed me how little I really care about this issue.

So feel free to put in the last word should you wish. The sun is shining, and I oughta be on a golf course (where I provide my fellow golfers AMPLE reasons for thinking me an asshole!)
I really wasn't trying to sneak the last word in, I just thought you were under the impression that the golfers in question weren't giving any reasons why they don't care for Phil. You are right that they won't give specifics, and I doubt you'll really ever get any. There is the possibility that you'll begin to read things in books that are published at or near the end of his career, but there is nothing to be gained from such accusations at this point.

On top of that, he is still good for golf in a lot of ways, and the PGA certainly doesn't want people to think badly of him. On the whole, I don't think people actually hate him as much as they think he's just a jerk. Some resent him b/c his public image is totally the opposite, but I think most guys respect him to some degree.

Hit 'em straight today.
#39
Old 05-29-2009, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Dinsdale View Post
Okay, now you are being a dick.
Dinsdale, insulting other users is not permitted in this forum. Please take it to the BBQ Pit.
#40
Old 05-29-2009, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by fluiddruid View Post
Dinsdale, insulting other users is not permitted in this forum. Please take it to the BBQ Pit.
Sorry - should've known better.
(Also - as a general rule - should know better than to post in the middle of a crappy morning at work!)
#41
Old 05-29-2009, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by fluiddruid View Post
Dinsdale, insulting other users is not permitted in this forum. Please take it to the BBQ Pit.
Dinsdale's post failed to land past the ladie's tees. He must post the rest of the day according to Texas rules.
#42
Old 05-29-2009, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Lamar Mundane View Post
Dinsdale's post failed to land past the ladie's tees. He must post the rest of the day according to Texas rules.
Z-z-z-ip!
#43
Old 04-07-2010, 09:26 AM
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Apologies for resurrecting a zombie (especially one in which I got warned!), but I didn't think this warranted a whole new thread. Today's Trib had an article about Lefty, in which Hunter Mahan was effusive in his praise for the Mick.

The article acknowledges that Mick "gets a bad rap in the clubhouse. Among his peers, he's considered as genuine as Astroturf." Mahan says, "I remember when I came on tour, guys told me he's a phony or a fake or whatever. Then I met him and he's not a phony, he's just kind of goofy. I've never seen any kind of fake side to him. And I've never seen him be rude to any person."

Just another datapoint I thought I'd share. Now if only Lefty would show an ability to come through in the clutch...

Last edited by Dinsdale; 04-07-2010 at 09:27 AM.
#44
Old 04-07-2010, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Dinsdale View Post
Apologies for resurrecting a zombie (especially one in which I got warned!), but I didn't think this warranted a whole new thread. Today's Trib had an article about Lefty, in which Hunter Mahan was effusive in his praise for the Mick.

The article acknowledges that Mick "gets a bad rap in the clubhouse. Among his peers, he's considered as genuine as Astroturf." Mahan says, "I remember when I came on tour, guys told me he's a phony or a fake or whatever. Then I met him and he's not a phony, he's just kind of goofy. I've never seen any kind of fake side to him. And I've never seen him be rude to any person."

Just another datapoint I thought I'd share. Now if only Lefty would show an ability to come through in the clutch...
37 wins with 3 majors is pretty clutch in my book. Some people actually believe he is not clutch. They are biased against lefty. He is one of the all time greats. He also has a pile of 2nds, some of which he blew by risk taking.
#45
Old 04-07-2010, 10:19 AM
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I guess to a large extent he suffers from Tiger's shadow. If not for Tiger, Mick (and probably one or 2 others) would really appear dominant. But I'm not sure I can remember a single time that Mick and Tiger really duelled down the stretch, with Mick coming out on top.

And that US Open in 06 was HUGE. At that point Lefty had won 2 majors in a row. Had he won that one, who knows what might have come next. But instead, he's been relatively silent in the bigtime (but for a TPC IIRC).
#46
Old 09-29-2014, 09:05 AM
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It was unfortunate that he was a little graceless in his public criticism of Tom Watson at the post match press conference following the Ryder Cup defeat. It doesn't help his profile, and negates any good points he might have had.
#47
Old 09-29-2014, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by brianjaylward View Post
It was unfortunate that he was a little graceless in his public criticism of Tom Watson at the post match press conference following the Ryder Cup defeat. It doesn't help his profile, and negates any good points he might have had.
Yeah... I've always liked Lefty, but he really tainted his own image (an image he's worked hard to maintain) by being so ungracious at the Ryder Cup.

Tom Watson's strategy may have been questionable, but the basic problem was that Europe just had a lot more good players than we did this year. Better pairings would only have helped a LITTLE.

In any case, TOm Watson is an all-time great, and deserved more respect. The best thing to do would have been to argue with Watson in private BEFORE the end of the match... and then to congratulate the Euros for playing so well after it was over.

Phil surely WOULD have been Ryder Cup captain one day, but he's probably disqualified himself from that job forever.
#48
Old 09-29-2014, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by astorian View Post
Yeah... I've always liked Lefty, but he really tainted his own image (an image he's worked hard to maintain) by being so ungracious at the Ryder Cup.

Tom Watson's strategy may have been questionable, but the basic problem was that Europe just had a lot more good players than we did this year. Better pairings would only have helped a LITTLE.

In any case, TOm Watson is an all-time great, and deserved more respect. The best thing to do would have been to argue with Watson in private BEFORE the end of the match... and then to congratulate the Euros for playing so well after it was over.

Phil surely WOULD have been Ryder Cup captain one day, but he's probably disqualified himself from that job forever.
See it the other way myself - I've always disliked Mickleson, so it was a pleasant surprise to hear him come out and say something real for a change. He was obv angry at the way they'd lost, and just said so.
Won't hurt his image all that much IMO (may do the opposite) if he can make a conciliatory gesture to Watson in the next few days - you're right that dis-respecting the captain like that was bang out of order. But Mickleson has great standing himself, so can prob row back from it as heat of the moment talk.

Don't agree btw on the Ryder cup boiling down to who has the better players - think that's been proven time and again. The captain's management is crucial in molding the team and making sure they play to their potential and deal with the pressure. Sounds like Watson did a very ordinary job, and putting that out there is prob good for the team going forward.

Last edited by Busy Scissors; 09-29-2014 at 12:18 PM.
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