View Poll Results: Is dark-on-dark ever OK?
Typicaclly, a great look that more men should try 20 14.93%
More often than not, a solid style choice 34 25.37%
50-50, it depends 33 24.63%
Sometimes works, but it's walking a high wire sans net 20 14.93%
Works once in a blue moon, but men should avoid this in general 14 10.45%
Never acceptable. An utterly abysmal look 13 9.70%
Voters: 134. You may not vote on this poll

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#1
Old 04-12-2010, 01:22 PM
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Menswear: Dark dress shirts with dark suits - is it ever OK?

I say dark dress shirt with a dark suit is a great look, but one that is often done poorly. Some of the guys at work agree. Other guys here in the office say that dark-on-dark NEVER works. We don't yet have any input from our female coworkers.

Given that, I am interested in what the SDMB says, and whether or not there is any kind of true orthodoxy (per the wide world of Fashion) on this matter.

Here are some examples that I dug up quickly.

For those wanting clarification on just what colors dark-on-dark entails ... just define it as whatever comes to mind. For me, that's a black suit with, say, a purple dress shirt ... or black suit with electric blue shirt ... black suit with red. That's the first combos that come to mind. Perhaps an easier way to frame the question is "is it okay to wear non-white/non-pastel dress shirts with a navy/black/charcoal suit"?

And as for the thought "depends on the tie" ... assume for the purposes of voting that the tie is "perfect" as you would define it.
#2
Old 04-12-2010, 01:28 PM
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I've no idea what "Fashion" would say about it - but I've seen folks in dark suits with green or red shirts, and thought that looked neat. In fact, I keep making a mental note to pick up such a shirt myself.

I'm sure it could look bad, though - anything can, really.
#3
Old 04-12-2010, 01:38 PM
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I would say that certain people could probably pull this off, although it might suggest that you're on your way to a funeral.

What I don't like about those examples is the tie matches the shirt. In the first case it even appears to be made of the same shiny material. The tie should provide some contrast, and if the shirt is dark, the only way to do that would be with a light colored tie. Then you're getting dangerously close to the 70's white tie/belt/shoes phenomena.

The second pic accomplishes the desired contrast, but the overall look is still too dark for my taste.
#4
Old 04-12-2010, 01:43 PM
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Some guys can do it, and some can't. For me it would be a ridiculous look.

Actually, dark on dark can work for me, but there has to be a good deal of contrast in hue. Dark blue on a slightly different hue of dark blue is a crime against humanity. Dark blue and dark red could work great.
#5
Old 04-12-2010, 02:35 PM
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I don't personally think I could pull it off well, but I have seen some who do. Doesn't really work in my industry, though. It's too conservative, as a whole.
#6
Old 04-12-2010, 02:40 PM
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Is anyone in your office Johnny Cash? This is important for my answer.
#7
Old 04-12-2010, 02:50 PM
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Are you talking about going to the Nickelodeon Kid's Choice Awards, or professional business attire? If the latter, this look is a "no go".
#8
Old 04-12-2010, 02:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jophiel View Post
Is anyone in your office Johnny Cash? This is important for my answer.


Nope, no one here.

Our office is business casual ... no one here is in a suit. The discussion is purely academic.
#9
Old 04-12-2010, 02:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jophiel View Post
Is anyone in your office Johnny Cash? This is important for my answer.
Or Tony Soprano.
#10
Old 04-12-2010, 03:27 PM
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IMO, your suit must always be darker than your shirt. If you can pull this off with two darks, it may work. However, the other absolute rule is, your tie must always be darker than your suit. Not wearing a tie is always an option.
#11
Old 04-12-2010, 03:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bordelond View Post
For those wanting clarification on just what colors dark-on-dark entails ... just define it as whatever comes to mind. For me, that's a black suit with, say, a purple dress shirt ... or black suit with electric blue shirt ... black suit with red. That's the first combos that come to mind.
All ew. All not very good business wear. Especially that whole black suit junk.


Quote:
Perhaps an easier way to frame the question is "is it okay to wear non-white/non-pastel dress shirts with a navy/black/charcoal suit"?
Yes. You can wear a dark blue (french blue) shirt with a charcoal suit, but depending on the specific colors it may look a bit too severe. Regardless, stay away from the black, yeah?

Last edited by Rumor_Watkins; 04-12-2010 at 03:34 PM.
#12
Old 04-12-2010, 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Lao Tsu View Post
However, the other absolute rule is, your tie must always be darker than your suit
you may want to double check that one.
#13
Old 04-12-2010, 03:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lao Tsu View Post
However, the other absolute rule is, your tie must always be darker than your [s]suit[/s] shirt.


(I assumed you meant "shirt" above)

What about the "French-blue-shirt + yellow-tie" look that so many men combine with dark suits these days?
#14
Old 04-12-2010, 03:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bordelond View Post
What about the "French-blue-shirt + yellow-tie" look that so many men combine with dark suits these days?
shit.
#15
Old 04-12-2010, 03:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilbo523 View Post
Are you talking about going to the Nickelodeon Kid's Choice Awards, or professional business attire?
It's understood that professional business attire will trend heavily toward the conservative. Thinking more about suit-&-tie attire that would be appropriate for a wedding guest, or for wearing during a swank night on the town.
#16
Old 04-12-2010, 03:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bordelond View Post
It's understood that professional business attire will trend heavily toward the conservative. Thinking more about suit-&-tie attire that would be appropriate for a wedding guest, or for wearing during a swank night on the town.
if you go to a wedding dressed like that people will wonder if you're the family's mortician.
#17
Old 04-12-2010, 03:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colibri View Post

Or The Merovingian from The Matrix movies.
#18
Old 04-12-2010, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Colibri View Post
"Gangster" was the first thing that popped into my mind, too.
#19
Old 04-12-2010, 03:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rumor_Watkins View Post
shit.
:shrug:

Big fan of that look. You see a lot of guys wear the same color combo with a pink/magenta/fuchsia tie, too. John McCain, for one, sports both looks quite a bit.
#20
Old 04-12-2010, 03:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bordelond View Post
:shrug:

Big fan of that look. You see a lot of guys wear the same color combo with a pink/magenta/fuchsia tie, too. John McCain, for one, sports both looks quite a bit.
That's a charcoal pinstripe with a light (ok, ok, not light. medium) blue shirt. Big difference from a plain navy suit and a dark blue shirt.

One works, the other, not so much.


as to the blue shirt, yellow tie writ large: yes, of course it works, but that's farking boring - a plain yellow tie and a plain blue shirt.

Last edited by Rumor_Watkins; 04-12-2010 at 03:48 PM.
#21
Old 04-12-2010, 03:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rumor_Watkins View Post
if you go to a wedding dressed like that people will wonder if you're the family's mortician.


I must say ... the people that don't like dark-on-dark are vehement about their position.

Everyone parts ways and goes on wearing what they want to wear, of course.
#22
Old 04-12-2010, 03:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bordelond View Post


I must say ... the people that don't like dark-on-dark are vehement about their position.

Everyone parts ways and goes on wearing what they want to wear, of course.

except that people that know how to dress (or, at the very least, know how to not dress like a clown) go on thinking that someone's a bit of a doofer.
#23
Old 04-12-2010, 03:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rumor_Watkins View Post
Big difference from a plain navy suit and a dark blue shirt.
I thought the picture I linked in post #13 was of a black suit. If not, I agree with you about navy suit + dark blue shirt.

I disagree that it's a boring look ... might be the cliche "less conserative" look, however.
#24
Old 04-12-2010, 03:51 PM
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Only if you want to look like a mobster.
#25
Old 04-12-2010, 03:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Surly Chick View Post
Only if you want to look like a mobster.
This response gets thrown out a lot, but I don't think it's persuasive.

Connect the dots here ... are mobsters known for dressling poorly? Is there something inherently "incorrect" about how mobsters dress? Is there a covering "mobster dress code" that all mobsters adhere to? Does "dressing like a mobster" mean anything in the real world?
#26
Old 04-12-2010, 04:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bordelond View Post
This response gets thrown out a lot, but I don't think it's persuasive.

Connect the dots here ... are mobsters known for dressling poorly? Is there something inherently "incorrect" about how mobsters dress? Is there a covering "mobster dress code" that all mobsters adhere to? Does "dressing like a mobster" mean anything in the real world?
I come from a Guido neighborhood in the Bronx. (No offense meant; some of my best friends as well as some of my in-laws are Guidos.) Mobsters are known for dressing expensively and ostentatiously; they are not known for dressing well. Good taste and a refined sensibility are not notably among their characteristics.

The look is flamboyant more than in bad taste per se. IMO it's fine for a party or club, as long as you don't take yourself too seriously. It would be out of place in most business offices or professional conferences.
#27
Old 04-12-2010, 04:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colibri View Post
I come from a Guido neighborhood in the Bronx. (No offense meant; some of my best friends as well as some of my in-laws are Guidos.) Mobsters are known for dressing expensively and ostentatiously; they are not known for dressing well. Good taste and a refined sensibility are not notably among their characteristics.
There may be a regional/cultural thing at work here. Down here, there's no "guido" culture or anything like that ... so there's not bad sartorial example set, as it were. And maybe the Washington-to-Boston corridor, in general, is just a more conservative place, clothing-wise, than the Gulf South.
#28
Old 04-12-2010, 04:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bordelond View Post
This response gets thrown out a lot, but I don't think it's persuasive.

Connect the dots here ... are mobsters known for dressling poorly? Is there something inherently "incorrect" about how mobsters dress? Is there a covering "mobster dress code" that all mobsters adhere to? Does "dressing like a mobster" mean anything in the real world?
Here's what I imagine.

Of course, I know that's not actually what the original poster is talking about, but it's the first thing that popped into my mind. Whether you think that's "dressing poorly" is a matter of taste, I suppose.

Last edited by hogarth; 04-12-2010 at 04:28 PM.
#29
Old 04-12-2010, 04:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bordelond View Post
or for wearing during a swank night on the town.
Are you dining with a long time girlfriend or an escort?
#30
Old 04-12-2010, 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Wilbo523 View Post
Are you dining with a long time girlfriend or an escort?
blow-up doll, duh.
#31
Old 04-12-2010, 05:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colibri View Post
I come from a Guido neighborhood in the Bronx. (No offense meant; some of my best friends as well as some of my in-laws are Guidos.) Mobsters are known for dressing expensively and ostentatiously; they are not known for dressing well. Good taste and a refined sensibility are not notably among their characteristics.
I agree with this, but I think bordelond is taking "only if you want to look like a gangster" a little too defensively. It's not entirely an insult. It also just winds up being a very costumey look for better or worse. (although, it is for worse). My own style is very preppy and if I take it too far I wind up looking like the douchebag character in every college movie or a page from a jcrew catalog. It's not so much bad as just no longer natural. The problem is the dark shirt and dark jacket look is costumey AND bad. You don't want to look like you're dressed up as somebody and you especially don't want to look like you're dressed up as a poorly dressed somebody.

Last edited by Fuzzy Dunlop; 04-12-2010 at 05:09 PM.
#32
Old 04-12-2010, 05:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuzzy Dunlop View Post
It also just winds up being a very costumey look for better or worse. (although, it is for worse).


The guys in my OP are dressed "costumey"? The colors themselves are subdued.

(Colbert looks a little schticky, but it's more his mug than his suit )

EDIT: It has to start approaching the Don Cherry-level to look "costumey", IMHO. Setting up a strawman here -- you guys can at least agree that the pics in my OP are world's more conservative than Cherry's pics, right?

Last edited by bordelond; 04-12-2010 at 05:27 PM.
#33
Old 04-12-2010, 05:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bordelond View Post


The guys in my OP are dressed "costumey"? The colors themselves are subdued.

(Colbert looks a little schticky, but it's more his mug than his suit )
I hadn't looked at any of your pictures. I was talking specifically about why looking like a gangster is bad. Looking like you're trying to look like someone you're not is a bad thing no matter how they dress and since the look is strongly associated with gangsters, it's hard to not look like you're dressed up as a gangster.

That said, now that I've looked at your pictures, yes I think they all look like Sopranos characters.
#34
Old 04-12-2010, 05:35 PM
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Anything other than a white shirt is considered Flashy, in menswear. White shirt, black or grey suit, restrained tie - preferably in your school's stripe, if you're English. Anything Flashy in menswear is considered borderline poor taste. One day, you want a plum colored shirt & tie, the next you wake up to find yourself in a powder blue suit. In menswear, it's a very short slippery slope, and slides straight to hell.

Mind you, I kind of like the look. I like the way Chuck Bass dresses, too. But most men can't pull it off. Most men should ask themselves, "What would Don Draper wear?'
#35
Old 04-12-2010, 05:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuzzy Dunlop View Post
That said, now that I've looked at your pictures, yes I think they all look like Sopranos characters.
How about the lawyer in post #13?
#36
Old 04-12-2010, 05:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuzzy Dunlop View Post
... the look is strongly associated with gangsters ...
No evidence, but: I bet this much less true outside of the Northeastern U.S. (and maybe Chicago, too).

...

Quote:
"What would Don Draper wear?'
Merneith ... isnt Mad Men set in the 1960s?
#37
Old 04-12-2010, 05:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bordelond View Post
EDIT: It has to start approaching the Don Cherry-level to look "costumey", IMHO. Setting up a strawman here -- you guys can at least agree that the pics in my OP are world's more conservative than Cherry's pics, right?
You realize that when I say costume, I mean dressed up like a mobster right? I get that you're talking about dark subdued colors. That's what makes it look mobster-esque to me.

Here's Maurice Benard dressed up as mobster Sonny Corinthos from General Hospital: http://z.about.com/d/generalhospital.../-/-/sonny.jpg

Here's James Gandolfini dressed up as moster Tony Soprano from the Sopranos: http://virginmedia.com/images/tv...os-431x300.jpg

It's not like the Sopranos mobsters don`t often wear crisp white shirts with their suits and ties. I just don`t associate that look with the mob.

Last edited by Fuzzy Dunlop; 04-12-2010 at 05:41 PM.
#38
Old 04-12-2010, 05:42 PM
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I don't wear a suit often but if it's not at a wedding with a particular dress code, I often pair a dark shirt (grey, black, blue) with a dark suit and a nice tie and it looks quite sharp. I've worn that combo to job interviews and been complimented on how I look.

Personally I have white dress shirts. Too hard to keep clean, anything less than "spotless" looks crappy. I also happen to like darker, richer colors, they go well with my face (white dude, no tan, going bald - light shirts highlight the worst of that palette).
#39
Old 04-12-2010, 05:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bordelond View Post
How about the lawyer in post #13?
That's a different look I don`t like. I don`t like the light tie. I don`t personally care for that shade of blue but I wouldn't call it dark with a dark suit the way the rest of the thread seems to be about.

Chris Noth wore a yellow tie like that in some Sex and the City press photo I saw once and liked but I can't find it.
#40
Old 04-12-2010, 05:48 PM
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I think it can look good. However, the lighter-than-shirt tie isn't attractive to me. The combo "dark suit/slightly less dark shirt/tie the same colour as the suit solid or print" can look very elegant.
#41
Old 04-12-2010, 05:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bordelond View Post

Merneith ... isnt Mad Men set in the 1960s?
Yes. The difference in menswear between now and then is mostly in the details such as the cut of the lapels, shape of the pant leg, and so on. It wouldn't be a hard act to follow. Tim Gunn almost always wears a white shirt, if you want a modern example.

I think the solid tie & shirt look might be alright on a date, maybe, depending on where you go. But for work or formal events, the classics are classic for a reason.

Last edited by Merneith; 04-12-2010 at 05:59 PM.
#42
Old 04-12-2010, 06:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Merneith View Post
Yes. The difference in menswear between now and then is mostly in the details such as the cut of the lapels, shape of the pant leg, and so on. It wouldn't be a hard act to follow. Tim Gunn almost always wears a white shirt, if you want a modern example.
Mad Men also gets the shape of the pant leg entirely incorrect, as I understand it. So it's not like dressing like Don Draper is really the same as dressing like you're from the 60s.
#43
Old 04-12-2010, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Merneith View Post
Tim Gunn almost always wears a white shirt, if you want a modern example.
This Tim Gunn? He mixes it up.

I'll admit that he does wear white shirts in most of his pics that I can find via cusory Googling.
#44
Old 04-12-2010, 06:30 PM
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The comments in the thread and the poll results don't match. There's a lot of people out there that lie dark-on-dark, but are keeping mum.
#45
Old 04-12-2010, 07:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Fuzzy Dunlop View Post
Mad Men also gets the shape of the pant leg entirely incorrect, as I understand it. So it's not like dressing like Don Draper is really the same as dressing like you're from the 60s.
Yeah. I was speaking figuratively. I don't mean hijack his wardrobe next time it goes to the cleaners.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bordelond View Post
I'll admit that he does wear white shirts in most of his pics that I can find via cusory Googling.
Yeah. Which is why I said he almost always wears white shirts. He usually does on the show, too.
#46
Old 04-12-2010, 07:47 PM
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I voted "Sometimes works, but it's walking a high wire sans net".

I would never recommend this for a professional setting. Some men might be able to pull it off depending on where they work, but I'd advise against it. In a purely social situation it might be okay, but it's a look that is very strongly associated with organized crime. So a man sporting this look runs a definite risk of looking like either a mobster or, worse still, like someone who's trying to look like a mobster.

Anecdote: When I was working in Japan my fellow American coworker once came in wearing a black jacket, black shirt, and green tie. Our boss was rather distressed and started giving him a hard time about it, but was struggling to explain in English why she found this outfit so objectionable. I asked if she thought it was a yakuza (Japanese mafia) look, but she said no, not exactly. After some more back and forth I realized that the word she was searching for was something like "gigolo". I'm not sure if that's better or worse than looking like the yakuza.

Last edited by Lamia; 04-12-2010 at 07:48 PM.
#47
Old 04-12-2010, 08:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Merneith View Post
Mind you, I kind of like the look. I like the way Chuck Bass dresses, too. But most men can't pull it off. Most men should ask themselves, "What would Don Draper wear?'
Eh... screw Don Draper. I tend to think "What would my grandfather wear?"

He was a VP of a bank in Galveston, TX from way back, and had quite a few hand-tailored suits, and was generally a very dapper and well dressed fellow, if a bit conservatively.

Basically the same look I go for in business attire- a well tailored, sharp, in fashion, but somewhat conservative look. Like I don't have to impress anyone, basically.
#48
Old 04-12-2010, 08:04 PM
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Originally Posted by bordelond View Post
The comments in the thread and the poll results don't match. There's a lot of people out there that lie dark-on-dark, but are keeping mum.
For what it's worth, I voted "it depends".
#49
Old 04-12-2010, 08:25 PM
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It depends. Can it look fashionable and sharp? Yes, the key is how you wear it - look at the way numerous men wear it on the red carpet and look great doing so. I googled Brad Pitt and saw a few pictures where I think he looks pretty good with it. And I also came up with a picture of Steve Wozniak wearing dark-on-dark - he's not exactly a fashionable guy, but he is a prominent executive. I like how it's done in the second picture you posted. However, I am not a big fan of how it's done in the first and third examples.

It also depends on who is wearing it and for what. It can look good, but it may not be appropriate for certain situations with strict dress code. And some people probably just can't pull it off - if you've got an overblown orange faux tan, miles of tacky jewelry, and frosted hair with enough hair gel to kill a cat, you would make even a traditional suit look ostentatious.
#50
Old 04-12-2010, 09:15 PM
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I think it can be done. I wear my black suit with a wine-ish red shirt and get complements. So it works on me at least.
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