#1
Old 09-06-2011, 09:29 AM
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Wonderful anti-Muslim e-mail I got

Quote:
Something to Consider
The following is a copy of an article written by Spanish writer Sebastian Vilar Rodriguez and published in a Spanish newspaper on April 25, 2011. It doesn't take much imagination to extrapolate the message to the rest of Europe - and possibly to the rest of the world.


REMEMBER AS YOU READ -- THIS WAS PRINTED IN A SPANISH NEWSPAPER

ALL EUROPEAN LIFE DIED IN AUSCHWITZ By Sebastian Vilar Rodrigez

I walked down the street in Barcelona, and suddenly discovered a terrible truth - Europe died in Auschwitz ... We killed six million Jews and replaced them with 20 million Muslims. In Auschwitz we burned a culture, thought, creativity, talent. We destroyed the chosen people, truly chosen, because they produced great and wonderful people who changed the world.

The contribution of this
people is felt in all areas of life: science, art, international trade, and above all, as the conscience of the world. These are the people we burned.

And under the pretense of tolerance, and because we wanted to prove to ourselves that we were cured of the disease of racism, we opened our gates to 20 million Muslims, who brought us stupidity and ignorance, religious extremism and lack of tolerance, crime and poverty, due to an unwillingness to work and support their families with pride.

They have blown up our trains and turned our beautiful Spanish cities into the third world, drowning in filth and crime.

Shut up in the apartments they receive free from the government, they plan the murder and destruction of their naive hosts.

And thus, in our misery, we have exchanged culture for fanatical hatred, creative skill for destructive skill, intelligence for backwardness and superstition.

We have exchanged the pursuit of peace of the Jews of Europe and their talent for a better future for their children, their determined clinging to life because life is holy, for those who pursue death, for people consumed by the desire for death for themselves and others, for our children and theirs.

What a terrible mistake was made by miserable Europe ..
***********************************
The Global Islamic population is approximately 1,200,000,000; that is ONE BILLION TWO HUNDRED MILLION or 20% of the world's population. They have received the following Nobel Prizes:

Literature:
1988 - Najib Mahfooz

Peace:
1978 - Mohamed Anwar El-Sadat
1990 - Elias James Corey
1994 - Yasser Arafat:
1999 - Ahmed Zewai

Economics:
(zero)

Physics:
(zero)

Medicine:
1960 - Peter Brian Medawar
1998 - Ferid Mourad

TOTAL: 7 SEVEN

The Global Jewish population is
approximately 14,000,000; that is FOURTEEN MILLION or about 0.02% of the world's population. They have received the following Nobel Prizes:

Literature:
1910 - Paul Heyse
1927 - Henri Bergson
1958 - Boris Pasternak
1966 - Shmuel Yosef Agnon
1966 - Nelly Sachs
1976 - Saul Bellow
1978 - Isaac Bashevis Singer
1981 - Elias Canetti
1987 - Joseph Brodsky
1991 - Nadine Gordimer World

Peace:
1911 - Alfred Fried
1911 - Tobias Michael Carel Asser
1968 - Rene Cassin
1973 - Henry Kissinger
1978 - Menachem Begin
1986 - Elie Wiesel
1994 - Shimon Peres
1994 - Yitzhak Rabin

Physics:
1905 - Adolph Von Baeyer
1906 - Henri Moissan
1907 - Albert Abraham Michelson
1908 - Gabriel Lippmann
1910 - Otto Wallach
1915 - Richard Willstaetter
1918 - Fritz Haber
1921 - Albert Einstein
1922 - Niels Bohr
1925 - James Franck
1925 - Gustav Hertz
1943 - Gustav Stern
1943 - George Charles de Hevesy
1944 - Isidor Issac Rabi
1952 - Felix Bloch
1954 - Max Born
1958 - Igor Tamm
1959 - Emilio Segre
1960 - Donald A. Glaser
1961 - Robert Hofstadter
1961 - Melvin Calvin
1962 - Lev Davidovich Landau
1962 - Max Ferdinand Perutz
1965 - Richard Phillips Feynman
1965 - Julian Schwinger
1969 - Murray Gell-Mann
1971 - Dennis Gabor
1972 - William Howard Stein
1973 - Brian David Josephson
1975 - Benjamin Mottleson
1976 - Burton Richter
1977 - Ilya Prigogine
1978 - Arno Allan Penzias
1978 - Peter L Kapitza
1979 - Stephen Weinberg
1979 - Sheldon Glashow
1979 - Herbert Charles Brown
1980 - Paul Berg
1980 - Walter Gilbert
1981 - Roald Hoffmann
1982 - Aaron Klug
1985 - Albert A. Hauptman
1985 - Jerome Karle
1986 - Dudley R. Herschbach
1988 - Robert Huber
1988 - Leon Lederman
1988 - Melvin Schwartz
1988 - Jack Steinberger
1989 - Sidney Altman
1990 - Jerome Friedman
1992 - Rudolph Marcus
1995 - Martin Perl
2000 - Alan J. Heeger

Economics:
1970 - Paul Anthony Samuelson
1971 - Simon Kuznets
1972 - Kenneth Joseph Arrow
1975 - Leonid Kantorovich
1976 - Milton Friedman
1978 - Herbert A. Simon
1980 - Lawrence Robert Klein
1985 - Franco Modigliani
1987 - Robert M. Solow
1990 - Harry Markowitz
1990 -Merton Miller
1992 - Gary Becker
1993 - Robert Fogel

Medicine:
1908 - Elie Metchnikoff
1908 - Paul Erlich
1914 - Robert Barany
1922 - Otto Meyerhof
1930 - Karl Landsteiner
1931 - Otto Warburg
1936 - Otto Loewi
1944 - Joseph Erlanger
1944 - Herbert Spencer Gasser
1945 - Ernst Boris Chain
1946 - Hermann Joseph Muller
1950 - Tadeus Reichstein
1952 - Selman Abraham Waksman
1953 - Hans Krebs
1953 - Fritz Albert Lipmann
1958 - Joshua Lederberg
1959 - Arthur Kornberg
1964 - Konrad Bloch
1965 - Francois Jacob
1965 - Andre Lwoff
1967 - George Wald
1968 - Marshall W. Nirenberg
1969 - Salvador Luria
1970 - Julius Axelrod
1970 - Sir Bernard Katz
1972 - Gerald Maurice Edelman
1975 - Howard Martin Temin
1976 - Baruch S. Blumberg
1977 - Roselyn Sussman Yalow
1978 - Daniel Nathans
1980 - Baruj Benacerraf
1984 - Cesar Milstein
1985 - Michael Stuart Brown
1985 - Joseph L. Goldstein
1986 - Stanley Cohen [& Rita Levi-Montalcini]
1988 - Gertrude Elion
1989 - Harold Varmus
1991 - Erwin Neher
1991 - Bert Sakmann
1993 - Richard J. Roberts
1993 - Phillip Sharp
1994 - Alfred Gilman
1995 - Edward B. Lewis
1996- Lu Rose Iacovino
TOTAL: 129!


The Jews are NOT promoting brain washing children in military training camps, teaching them how to blow themselves up and cause maximum deaths of Jews and other non Muslims. The Jews don't hijack planes, nor kill athletes at the Olympics, or blow themselves up in German restaurants. There is NOT one single Jew who has destroyed a church. There is NOT a single Jew who protests by killing people.

The Jews don't traffic slaves, nor have leaders calling for Jihad and death to all the Infidels.

Perhaps the world's Muslims should consider investing more in standard education and less in blaming the Jews for all their problems.

Muslims must ask 'what can they do for humankind' before they demand that humankind respects them.

Regardless of your feelings about the crisis between Israel and the Palestinians and Arab neighbors, even if you believe there is more culpability on Israel 's part, the following two sentences really say it all:

'If the Arabs put down their weapons today, there would be no more violence. If the Jews put down their weapons today, there would be no more Israel .." Benjamin Netanyahu

General Eisenhower Warned Us It is a matter of history that when the Supreme Commander of the Allied Forces, General Dwight Eisenhower, found the victims of the death camps he ordered all possible photographs to be taken, and for the German people from surrounding villages to be ushered through the camps and even made to bury the dead.

He did this because he said in words to this effect:

'Get it all on record now - get the films - get the witnesses - because somewhere down the road of history some bastard will get up and say that this never happened'

Recently, the UK debated whether to remove The Holocaust from its school curriculum because it 'offends' the Muslim population which claims it never occurred. It is not removed as yet. However, this is a frightening portent of the fear that is gripping the world and how easily each country is giving into it.

It is now more than 60 years after the Second World War in Europe ended. This e-mail is being sent as a memorial chain, in memory of the, 6 million Jews, 20 million Russians, 10 million Christians, and 1,900 Catholic priests who were 'murdered, raped, burned, starved, beaten, experimented on and humiliated' while the German people looked the other way.

Now, more than ever, with Iran, among others, claiming the Holocaust to be 'a myth,' it is imperative to make sure the world never forgets.

This e-mail is intended to reach 400 million people. Be a link in the memorial chain and help distribute this around the world.

How many years will it be before the attack on the World Trade Center 'NEVER HAPPENED' because it offends some Muslim in the United States ?

Please do not just delete this message; it will take only a minute to pass this along. If you have concerns about tracking of forwarded emails, copy and paste this message before you send it, like I did.
To my work e-mail. The sender is a Jewish woman, with whom I have sometimes discussed Israel - I have a friend in Israel, and sometimes I share news with her, and generally have a positive view of Judaism and Israel in general, so perhaps she thinks I wouldn't mind such things.

I am, of course, not even going to respond - no point. I just wanted to share it here. It is obviously extremely sensationalist - the UK 'debating' whether to remove the Holocaust from curriculum could be something serious, or something as minor as one person trying to remove it and being shot down, for example.
#2
Old 09-06-2011, 09:34 AM
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Anything using the phrase "The Jews" gets an automatic side-eye from me.
#3
Old 09-06-2011, 09:46 AM
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Oh good, the Europeans have found another Semetic people they're convinced are undermining them from within. This should end well.
#4
Old 09-06-2011, 11:06 AM
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Not a single relative of mine has won a Nobel Prize. Heck, my parents didn't even go to college. None of my grandparents went to high school. Instead of accomplishing anything major in physics, chemistry, medicine, peace, literature, economics, or anything else in which they might become famous, my ancestors wasted their time as farmers in the U.S. (and before that in Germany, England, and Switzerland). Before that they were undoubtedly serfs in various places in Europe. There is obviously no hope for any of their descendants then. They are doomed to lives of near slavery in jobs requiring little education.

Incidentally, why has the writer of that E-mail failed to mention the chemistry Nobel Prizes? Are the Jews brilliant in everything except chemistry? Does the writer not know that there is a Nobel Prize in chemistry?:

http://science.co.il/Nobel-Chemistry.asp

Last edited by Wendell Wagner; 09-06-2011 at 11:07 AM.
#5
Old 09-06-2011, 11:36 AM
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Abdus Salam won the physics Nobel along with Weinberg and Glashow in 1979.
#6
Old 09-06-2011, 12:05 PM
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I'd tell that person to stop sending me anything that wasn't work related, and I'd forward that particular e-mail to HR.
#7
Old 09-06-2011, 12:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wendell Wagner View Post
Incidentally, why has the writer of that E-mail failed to mention the chemistry Nobel Prizes? Are the Jews brilliant in everything except chemistry? Does the writer not know that there is a Nobel Prize in chemistry?:

http://science.co.il/Nobel-Chemistry.asp
The list of Jewish Physics Nobelists appears to have the Chemistry Nobelists mixed in.
#8
Old 09-06-2011, 12:33 PM
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Sadly, racism is alive and well. As I've pointed out before, the majority of the world's 1.2 billion muslims don't go around exploding. Save the hate for the extremists.

I'm dubious the original email was actually printed in a Spanish newspaper, can anyone find a source?
#9
Old 09-06-2011, 12:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MegaBee View Post
I'd tell that person to stop sending me anything that wasn't work related, and I'd forward that particular e-mail to HR.
Naw. I mean, I've done it before (asked the person to stop sending me things like that, not sent it to HR), but she is really a decent person, just a little misguided. I don't like non-work e-mails in my inbox, but it is the work of a moment to hit delete and it's better than getting into a pissing match at work.

I'd rather just post it here for entertainment's sake.


This is the weirdest comment: ALL EUROPEAN LIFE DIED IN AUSCHWITZ. I feel really bad for all of the non-Muslims living in Europe right now, knowing that they are worth nothing compared to the six million dead Jews. I don't say we shouldn't remember them, of course not, but it seems wrong on so many levels to forget everyone who did survive, including Jews, and people who helped Jews, and people who weren't even born!

And I will also add the one thing I always bitch about in these sorts of things - yes, six million Jews died. Millions of other peoples died, too, and I fear we tend more and more to forget those innocents. From Wiki: Romani (more commonly known in English by the exonym "Gypsies"), Sinti, Soviet prisoners of war, Polish and Soviet civilians, homosexuals, people with disabilities, Jehovah's Witnesses and other political and religious opponents, which occurred regardless of whether they were of German or non-German ethnic origin.

The total number of Holocaust victims is between 11 million and 17 million people!
#10
Old 09-06-2011, 01:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alka Seltzer View Post
Sadly, racism is alive and well. As I've pointed out before, the majority of the world's 1.2 billion muslims don't go around exploding. Save the hate for the extremists.

I'm dubious the original email was actually printed in a Spanish newspaper, can anyone find a source?
A google search suggests it's a fake. Sadly no Snopes article as yet.
#11
Old 09-06-2011, 01:22 PM
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The bit about the UK debating the removal of teaching about the Holocaust is an exaggeration, to say the least. My rule for glurge-spotting is that any claim that someone "didn't want to offend" someone else is dead wrong, 100% of the time.
#12
Old 09-06-2011, 01:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anaamika View Post
This is the weirdest comment: ALL EUROPEAN LIFE DIED IN AUSCHWITZ. I feel really bad for all of the non-Muslims living in Europe right now, knowing that they are worth nothing compared to the six million dead Jews. I don't say we shouldn't remember them, of course not, but it seems wrong on so many levels to forget everyone who did survive, including Jews, and people who helped Jews, and people who weren't even born!

And I will also add the one thing I always bitch about in these sorts of things - yes, six million Jews died. Millions of other peoples died, too, and I fear we tend more and more to forget those innocents. From Wiki: Romani (more commonly known in English by the exonym "Gypsies"), Sinti, Soviet prisoners of war, Polish and Soviet civilians, homosexuals, people with disabilities, Jehovah's Witnesses and other political and religious opponents, which occurred regardless of whether they were of German or non-German ethnic origin.
Classic bull coming from Eurabists. People rolling themselves daily in the ashes of the victims of the Holocaust but that, in the same breath, ask that that kind of treatment be applied to Europe's Muslims.
#13
Old 09-06-2011, 01:52 PM
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I got that from a Jewish friend, too. It's really hard to respond to these kinds of things. Of course the list is probably accurate, but there are Jewish extremists, too.

OTOH this same friend thought that Osama bin Laden was "kinda hot" and "really intriguing." People are weird.
#14
Old 09-06-2011, 02:09 PM
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I think it sends a conflicting message to say
Quote:
In Auschwitz we burned a culture, thought, creativity, talent. We destroyed the chosen people, truly chosen, because they produced great and wonderful people who changed the world.
when three-quarters of the Nobel prizes in the list that follows were awarded after 1944. I am not trying to diminish what happened in any way, but it sounds like "the Jews" are still doing ok.
#15
Old 09-06-2011, 03:08 PM
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For two groups of people who are so closely related to be so ignorant about what the mainstream members of the groups believe, constantly astounds me.

My husband, a secular and westernized Muslim, is frequently told bizarrely inaccurate generalizations about Jews. He always runs it by me (humanistic Jew) for my take. I return the favor when I'm told similar stuff about Muslims. We usually just shake our heads in sad wonderment about it.

Generally, there's no use in responding to all the bizarre allegations in these cases. I just try to pick some of the more outrageous ones that can be refuted easily, and then suggest to person, "If the author got this obvious stuff wrong, what else did he get wrong?"

Oy vey...
#16
Old 09-06-2011, 03:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toucanna View Post
For two groups of people who are so closely related to be so ignorant about what the mainstream members of the groups believe, constantly astounds me.

My husband, a secular and westernized Muslim, is frequently told bizarrely inaccurate generalizations about Jews. He always runs it by me (humanistic Jew) for my take. I return the favor when I'm told similar stuff about Muslims. We usually just shake our heads in sad wonderment about it.

Generally, there's no use in responding to all the bizarre allegations in these cases. I just try to pick some of the more outrageous ones that can be refuted easily, and then suggest to person, "If the author got this obvious stuff wrong, what else did he get wrong?"

Oy vey...
*Ashkenazic* Jews aren't particularly closely related to Muslims - culturally, they are very different from the bulk of Muslims, and closer to other Europeans.

This also is the reason why the "Nobel Prize" comparison is unfair to Muslims - most Muslims population-wise these days are not "Westernized", and so not as likely to be on the forefront of education and science - but this says nothing about Islam as a religion, or Muslims as a people: the exact reverse was true during the 9th-11th centuries, when the role-call of prominent scientists was dominated by Muslims.
#17
Old 09-06-2011, 04:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by some whackaloon
There is NOT a single Jew who protests by killing people.
Tell that to Yitzhak Rabin.

Quote:
They have blown up our trains and turned our beautiful Spanish cities into the third world, drowning in filth and crime.

Shut up in the apartments they receive free from the government, they plan the murder and destruction of their naive hosts.
This sounds an awful lot like some of the stuff the antisemites falsely accused Jews of doing, before the Holocaust.
#18
Old 09-06-2011, 04:53 PM
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I can kind of sympathize for the email sender. After all, the Muslims invented Algebra which, to this day, is still the worst thing they've ever inflicted on the world
#19
Old 09-06-2011, 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Malthus View Post
*Ashkenazic* Jews aren't particularly closely related to Muslims - culturally, they are very different from the bulk of Muslims, and closer to other Europeans.
True. The majority of Muslims are not Arabs, but Indonesians, and the majority of Jews are not Sephradim (as I keep trying to explain to people when they ask me about Yiddish, gefilte fish and dreidls: How should I know? I'm Sephardic. )

Because the OP mentioned she and the sender of the e-mail had discussed Israel, I was thinking in terms of genes and cultural elements shared by (some of the) Jewish and Arab-Muslim Semitic groups living in what today is referred to commonly as "the Middle East".
#20
Old 09-07-2011, 05:07 AM
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Toucanna, a nitpick: Yes, the majority of Moslems are not Arabic. Only 20% of them are. No, the majority are not Indonesian. The majority are from Asia, mostly Indonesia, Pakistan, India, and Bangladesh. That's 62% of all Moslems:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam

Last edited by Wendell Wagner; 09-07-2011 at 05:11 AM.
#21
Old 09-07-2011, 05:22 AM
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Incidentally, in case you're interested, about 80% of all Jews worldwide are Ashkenazic:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashkenazi_Jews

Sephardic Jews are about 15% of all Jews worldwide:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sephardi_Jews
#22
Old 09-07-2011, 05:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anaamika View Post
It is obviously extremely sensationalist - the UK 'debating' whether to remove the Holocaust from curriculum could be something serious, or something as minor as one person trying to remove it and being shot down, for example.
I'd just like to clarify that reports on the Uk debating the removal of the Holocaust from the national schools curriculum is utterly false, and was a rumour spread by a malicious email of the sort you have received above. This bollocks email was even mentioned in parliament, as the quote below shows from a parliamentary session in 2009:

Quote:
Mr. Robert Flello (Stoke-on-Trent, South) (Lab): Does [my hon. friend] share my profound concern that e-mails, which are attached to horrific PowerPoint presentations, are circulating that suggest that the Government have banned the teaching of the holocaust in schools? Will he join me in urging anyone who receives such an e-mail to bin it straight away?

Mr. Russell Brown (Dumfries and Galloway) (Lab): My hon. Friend is right to make that point. There is no place for some of the things that we will look at in this afternoon’s debate.

One of the Holocaust Educational Trust’s first achievements was to ensure that the holocaust was included in the national curriculum in 1991. It successfully campaigned to have the assets of holocaust victims and survivors released and returned to their rightful owners. Having played a crucial role in the establishment and development of Holocaust memorial day in the UK, the HET continues to play a key role in the delivery of that day.

The trust carries out significant work in schools and higher education institutions, providing teacher training workshops and lectures as well as teaching aids and resource materials. Some of its activities include the outreach programme, which is a central part of the work that allows students and teachers the opportunity to hear first-hand survivor testimony.

Think Equal is a programme that has been devised specifically for schools in areas of racial tension. It enables the trust’s educators to work with staff in schools, deliver teacher training and devise workshops for students that focus on the dangers of racism and discrimination and the contemporary lessons to be drawn from the holocaust.
So I hope that clears up that nonsense. I'm so fed up of stupid falsehoods that suggest we (the UK) are banning teaching the holocaust or introducing sharia law or any other such bollocks.
#23
Old 09-07-2011, 06:28 AM
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Could anyone POSSIBLY believe this was printed in a newspaper? Even in the op-ed section? It's disjointed, meandering, and stops in the middle for a list of 150 names. No editor worth his salt would publish this as it is, even if he WERE working for Aryan Separatists Quarterly or whatever the hell kind of publication would see this as in line with their editorial bent. I'll grant, it's hard to tell how much of this is the "original article" and how much is chaff added on by subsequent forwardees, but in the state we are presented with it here, it's a MESS.

Maybe it's SLIGHTLY more elegant in the original Spanish, but I doubt it.

Last edited by Smapti; 09-07-2011 at 06:29 AM.
#24
Old 09-07-2011, 06:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baracus View Post
I think it sends a conflicting message to say

when three-quarters of the Nobel prizes in the list that follows were awarded after 1944. I am not trying to diminish what happened in any way, but it sounds like "the Jews" are still doing ok.
It sounds to me like "the Jews" are running the Nobel prize committees and I'm tempted to write a weird rambling racist e-mail calling for an investigation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smapti View Post
Could anyone POSSIBLY believe this was printed in a newspaper? Even in the op-ed section? It's disjointed, meandering, and stops in the middle for a list of 150 names. No editor worth his salt would publish this as it is, even if he WERE working for Aryan Separatists Quarterly or whatever the hell kind of publication would see this as in line with their editorial bent. I'll grant, it's hard to tell how much of this is the "original article" and how much is chaff added on by subsequent forwardees, but in the state we are presented with it here, it's a MESS.

Maybe it's SLIGHTLY more elegant in the original Spanish, but I doubt it.
I think the newspaper part is supposed to end at the line of asterisks. The writing after the list is a different style (the writing above the asterisks does NOT emphatically CAPITALIZE WORDS) and actually makes reference to it being an e-mail.
#25
Old 09-07-2011, 08:53 AM
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My Google search brought me to this Spanish-language webpage. At least based on the Google Translate English language translation, it appears to be the same text as the beginning of the quote (except for the list of Nobelists).
#26
Old 09-07-2011, 09:53 AM
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I'm surprised the Spanish author does not lament the 1492 expulsion of Jews from Spain as well. Probably because most of them ended up being taken in by Muslims.

It should hearten anaamika's friend to learn that the Eurabia thing is a myth.
#27
Old 09-07-2011, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by MegaBee View Post
I'd tell that person to stop sending me anything that wasn't work related, and I'd forward that particular e-mail to HR.
I agree with this.

Completely inappropriate for the workplace, and I'd tell them to knock it off.
#28
Old 09-07-2011, 06:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wendell Wagner View Post
Not a single relative of mine has won a Nobel Prize.
One of my relatives was nominated for the Nobel in Economics.

Does this mean he is an Honorary Jew?

Does this mean I am an Honorary Jew?

Do I get an Honorary Yarmulke?

And, are Yarmulkes waterproof?

These questions must be answered!
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#29
Old 09-07-2011, 11:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anaamika View Post
There is NOT one single Jew who has destroyed a church.
I'll have to tell this to a Jewish friend who works for a demolition company. They took one down within recent years.

Perhaps it doesn't count, because they used a crane & wrecking ball -- not explosives. And the building had already been de-sanctified, so maybe it didn't count as a church anymore?
#30
Old 09-07-2011, 11:35 PM
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I'm going to agree with Anne Nevile: this sounds like the anti-Jew propaganda with the vilified party changed.

We always gotta have SOME nationality to use as a scape goat!


~VOW
#31
Old 09-08-2011, 02:33 AM
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It's a hoax. Spanish language webpage: the reporter who posts it says he's been getting that particular PoS since at least 2005.

While I can't claim to be familiar with the names of every Spanish "columnista" (nor would I want to), that article simply didn't seem to match any newspapers I can think of (there's one which is that imbecilic, but the style is too simple for them), so I searched. Hoax. OK, good to verify that not even our worst rags are that idiotic...
#32
Old 09-08-2011, 09:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
I'll have to tell this to a Jewish friend who works for a demolition company. They took one down within recent years.

Perhaps it doesn't count, because they used a crane & wrecking ball -- not explosives. And the building had already been de-sanctified, so maybe it didn't count as a church anymore?
Please...I just wanted it to be clear that that wasn't actually a quote of mine, but it was from the article.
#33
Old 09-08-2011, 04:34 PM
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Aside from Abdus Salam, let me say that Nils Bohr was not Jewish (at least according to a biography I read), although he may have had a Jewish ancestor. And I believe I read somewhere (probably Wiki) that Paul Krugman is.

But these are nitpicks. A millennium ago, the west had not emerged from stagnation and the Muslim world was the center of learning. When Gerbert, the future Pope Sylvester, wanted to lean mathematics he, in the words of one history I read, disguised himself as an Arab and went to school in Cordoba.

Incidentally, anti-semitism (by which I mean the anti-Jewish type) is on the rise in Europe. When will the Europeans admit that if they hadn't disgorged their Jewish population, Israel would not have come into being.
#34
Old 09-10-2011, 12:21 PM
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My first thought when I read the thing was, "Where is the list of Nobel laureate cross-indexed by religion?"
#35
Old 09-10-2011, 12:51 PM
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The person who wrote the E-mail may have gotten the Jewish Nobel Prize winners from this website:

http://science.co.il/Prizes.asp
#36
Old 01-20-2012, 03:22 PM
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Abdus Salam was a member of the Ahmadi sect. The Ahmadis identify themselves as Muslims. The Sunni orthodox imams in Pakistan insist that the Ahmadis are apostates and can't be counted as Muslims. Perhaps the writer took that as the cue to bump the Muslim count down a notch?
#37
Old 01-21-2012, 03:47 PM
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As a Latina with an interest in Latin culture and history, I tend to make a Spanish connection with the year 1492. This year marks both the christian European tradition of genocide on native peoples of the Americas, and the beginning of the expulsion of Muslims and Jews from Spain.
Muslims and Jews both suffered and died through force and tortures from the Inquisition, their wealth was confiscated by Spain, and the banishment of an estimated three million people are a part of their shared history in Spain.
In 1928, Garcia Lorca, the Spanish writer and poet from Granada, commented on this, " It was a disastrous event, even though they say the opposite in schools. An admirable civilization and poetry, architecture and delicacy unique in the world-all were lost."
#38
Old 01-21-2012, 04:22 PM
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This may explain a bit more about the source.
Quote:
...for an old article of mine ...published in February of 2006 in which I investigated the provenance of an email circulating at that time in the blogosphere.

Many bloggers reprinted the email with an introduction stating that the material was "a translation of an article from a Spanish newspaper written by a Spanish writer Sebastian Vilar Rodrigez."

It turns out that the article never appeared in any Spanish newspaper but rather in an anti-Communist Spanish language website Gentiuno (published 11 Nov 2004) and that the author's name is actually spelled Sebastián Vivar Rodríguez, a nom de plume for an author unwilling to reveal himself.
Like many urban legends, this one has a germ of truth and much distortion:
Quote:
As proof that Europe made a terrible mistake killing six million creative and inventive Jews and replacing them with 20 million worthless Muslims, the email also includes a list of 7 supposed Muslim Nobel Prize winners against a list of 129 Jewish Nobel Laureates. This Nobel Prize comparison is both old and inaccurate and which I corrected in my March 2006 article Muslim Inventions - Nobel Prizes: three of the Muslims laureates mentioned are not actually Muslim. As for the number of Jews who won Nobel Prizes the actual number is 171 (not counting Peace Prize winners).
It occurs to me that the Nobel prize committee might be biased, so a list of winning religions or nationalities wouldn't necessarily be representative of a culture's contribution to the world.
#39
Old 01-21-2012, 04:31 PM
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Pasternak is listed as Jewish, but while his family was Jewish, he himself did not practice and if anything converted to Orthodox Christianity towards the end of his life. I suspect that this might be true for many of the other laureates on the list, both the supposed Jews and the supposed Muslims. It's a pretty meaningless thing, all in all.
#40
Old 01-21-2012, 10:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johanna View Post
Abdus Salam was a member of the Ahmadi sect. The Ahmadis identify themselves as Muslims. The Sunni orthodox imams in Pakistan insist that the Ahmadis are apostates and can't be counted as Muslims. Perhaps the writer took that as the cue to bump the Muslim count down a notch?
Or because Salam worked on Pakistans nuclear program me made him less deserving?
#41
Old 01-22-2012, 02:41 AM
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It's true that Jews have won a lot of Nobel prizes, and I think that reflects an emphasis on education in Jewish culture and also the fact that Jews mostly live in wealthy countries, which makes it easier to pursue the kinds of work that might win you a Nobel Prize. I don't think it's to anyone's discredit if their culture or religion doesn't have a lot of Nobels.

It goes without saying that the email is dumb, but the thing that annoys me about it isn't just the prejudice against Muslims. I think most of us are used to seeing that, and I've seen this email before. What bothers me is the phony nostalgic love for Jews. Europeans - not all of them, of course, but many groups over a long period of time - treated Jews like dirt and almost literally blamed them for everything that went wrong in the world. When someone took that idea to its logical conclusion, the reaction from Europeans was actually sort of mixed. And now we have this author who not only thinks that Jews have been wiped out when they haven't been, but has the gall to say 'Now that we've exterminated them, I've realized they weren't so bad after all.' How thoughtful!

Worse than that, maybe, is the fact that when you read the letter and the way he or she talks about Muslim riffraff...
Quote:
"Shut up in the apartments they receive free from the government, they plan the murder and destruction of their naive hosts.

And thus, in our misery, we have exchanged culture for fanatical hatred, creative skill for destructive skill, intelligence for backwardness and superstition.
You start to realize that this isn't very different from how some Europeans talked about Jews 100 years ago (or more), and you might start to think that if this writer had lived back then, he or she would have been saying these kinds of things about Jews instead of Muslims.
#42
Old 01-22-2012, 11:34 AM
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Speaking of Nobel Prizes I remember a lecture given by Neil DeGrasse Tyson where he was speaking of the disproportionate number of Nobel Prizes that have been awarded to people who identify as Jewish than to those who identify as Muslim.

The reason he gave was that the Islamic world was a Mecca (excuse the pun) for intellectual learning and discovery during the years 800 AD and 1100 AD. During this time algebra, the Arabic numerals and most of the stars that have names were named. It was a time where free thought was at its best and if this trend had continued Dr. Tyson argued that today almost all Nobel Prizes would be awarded to people from the Islamic world.

He lamented the fact that religious superstition prevented this wonderfully scientific and mathematical culture from blossoming into something spectacular. He lamented all the ideas that may have emerged from this population which consists of 20% of the world simply had the CULTURAL drive to pursue the sciences and the mathematics.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=8vfOpZD4Sm8

This is the video I was referencing. To get to the part about Nobel Prizes go to 52:20 and watch for about 5 minutes.
#43
Old 01-22-2012, 12:43 PM
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Apparently the people pushing that crap think that saying "look, this was published in a newspaper" makes it the summa total of unarguable truth. That mindset reminds me of that website which reads, IIRC,

Quote:

YOU'RE AN IDIOT



What? You've read it in internet!

Last edited by Nava; 01-22-2012 at 12:47 PM.
#44
Old 01-22-2012, 01:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baracus View Post
I think it sends a conflicting message to say

when three-quarters of the Nobel prizes in the list that follows were awarded after 1944. I am not trying to diminish what happened in any way, but it sounds like "the Jews" are still doing ok.
logically if you applied the percentage of Jews on the Nobel Prize list to the millions who perished in the camps the list would be larger.

Interesting perspective. Despite being hunted for sport across an entire continent they literally rose from the ashes of history to again be productive citizens. You have to ask yourself why? What is it that makes a demographic group of people aspire to greatness despite great adversity?
#45
Old 01-22-2012, 01:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marley23 View Post
I don't think it's to anyone's discredit if their culture or religion doesn't have a lot of Nobels.
you don't think culture and religion affect society?
#46
Old 01-22-2012, 08:03 PM
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mitochondria are better than yourtochondria.
#47
Old 01-24-2012, 12:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magiver View Post
logically if you applied the percentage of Jews on the Nobel Prize list to the millions who perished in the camps the list would be larger.

Interesting perspective. Despite being hunted for sport across an entire continent they literally rose from the ashes of history to again be productive citizens. You have to ask yourself why? What is it that makes a demographic group of people aspire to greatness despite great adversity?


When the only asset you have is your brains, you utilize it to the fullest possible extent and excel in your chosen field.
#48
Old 01-24-2012, 01:00 AM
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I can see the attitude behind this existing in some Europeans, and others. Tearing of the hair and rending of clothing because they killed the Jews they could have exploited. And in trying to exploit the Muslims they've become infested with terrorists. Obviously the Muslims should be killed and another group brought in to exploit.

And of course I can see small minded Jews seeing this and thinking "See, we are so much better than Muslims".
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