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#1
Old 09-22-2011, 05:39 AM
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Are there any good candidates for the 18th Century's last survivor?

The 19th Century's last survivors are almost gone now, in 2011; the world's oldest living person, Bessie Cooper, was born in August 26, 1896. In less than a decade, it's entirely possible we'll get down to a single lone survivor from that century.

Do we know enough about the oldest people of the 19th Century to guess at who the last survivor of the 18th Century was? I realize record-keeping only got going in a lot of the world in the latter half of the 20th Century, and a lot of records got forged due to a Tsar's conscription drive here and a fraudulent enlistment there, but are there any candidates who have at least reasonable documentation backing them up?
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#2
Old 09-22-2011, 06:10 AM
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This is probably a good place to start: List of last living war veterans

Some of those Napoleonic Wars vets lasted quite a while.
#3
Old 09-22-2011, 08:56 AM
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I'll start the bidding off with Margaret Ann Neve 1792 - 1903
#4
Old 09-22-2011, 12:44 PM
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Check out the photo of Margaret Ann Neve on the web page linked in Aspidistra's post. Judging from the shape of that, umm... thing... in her hand, maybe her trick to long life was the same as the one that Ernest Borgnine claims keeps him young.

Yes, I'm going to roast in hell.

Last edited by stuyguy; 09-22-2011 at 12:46 PM.
#5
Old 09-22-2011, 12:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aspidistra View Post
I'll start the bidding off with Margaret Ann Neve 1792 - 1903
Um, ok, so everyone else that lived in the 19th century died 108 years ago?

stuyguy, pointing out the obvious won't get you into Hell. You'll have to try harder or you'll end up in the other place where the dull people go.

Last edited by TriPolar; 09-22-2011 at 12:50 PM.
#6
Old 09-22-2011, 12:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shakester View Post
This is probably a good place to start: List of last living war veterans

Some of those Napoleonic Wars vets lasted quite a while.
From that list, Hiram Crook (April 29, 1800 – May 13, 1905) seems like a good candidate.
#7
Old 09-22-2011, 01:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TriPolar View Post
Um, ok, so everyone else that lived in the 19th century died 108 years ago?
I don't understand your point here. The OP is asking about the last survivor among people born in the EIGHTEENTH century, not the NINETEENTH.

Certainly somebody like Neve, who was born in 1792 and lived to be over 110 years old, would be a strong contender for that title. In fact, the linked Wiki article says:
Quote:
Neve was the only supercentenarian born in the 18th century who lived to the 20th century, and she was the first supercentenarian to live in three different centuries.
The first part of that sentence seems to imply that nobody else besides Neve who was born in the 18th century made it into the 20th century (because you'd have to be a supercentenarian in order to achieve that).

Therefore, if this Wikipedia statement is accurate, Neve is indeed the "18th century's last survivor" that the OP is looking for.

ETA: As per Dewey's post, if we count 1800 as part of the 18th century (which I agree is mathematically more correct but isn't a universally agreed-upon convention), then Hiram Crook beats out Neve for the title.

Last edited by Kimstu; 09-22-2011 at 01:04 PM.
#8
Old 09-22-2011, 01:09 PM
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Dewey Finn, the name is Hiram Cronk (not Crook).

FYI, his funeral procession, held in NYC, was filmed! You can view/download the silent b&w footage from the Library of Congress website.

Last edited by stuyguy; 09-22-2011 at 01:10 PM.
#9
Old 09-22-2011, 01:10 PM
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I have to be a bit skeptical about this. You mean that no one born on December 31, 1800 made it to 1904? Or that a similar person in born in 1799 didn't make it to 1904? You don't have to be 108 to get the title. Seems that at least one other person born near the last year of the century should have made it to 1904. To have someone who was born 8 years before the century was over would appear to be bucking the odds.

Last edited by Si Amigo; 09-22-2011 at 01:12 PM.
#10
Old 09-22-2011, 01:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimstu View Post
The first part of that sentence seems to imply that nobody else besides Neve who was born in the 18th century made it into the 20th century (because you'd have to be a supercentenarian in order to achieve that).
In that Wikipedia article, supercentarian simply means someone older than 110.
#11
Old 09-22-2011, 01:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimstu View Post
The first part of that sentence seems to imply that nobody else besides Neve who was born in the 18th century made it into the 20th century (because you'd have to be a supercentenarian in order to achieve that).
A supercentenarian is someone aged 110 years or older. There could have been plenty of plain old centenarians who lived from the very late 1790's to the early 1900's but died before they reached 110.

Last edited by Shmendrik; 09-22-2011 at 01:16 PM.
#12
Old 09-22-2011, 01:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimstu View Post
I don't understand your point here. The OP is asking about the last survivor among people born in the EIGHTEENTH century, not the NINETEENTH.
Well I guess if you insist on reading the OP correctly you would be right.
#13
Old 09-22-2011, 01:22 PM
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Thanks Shmendrik, you're right: I confused the supercentenarian barrier of 110 years with the centenarian barrier of 100 years.

You'd have to be at least a centenarian to make it from seventeen-ninety-something to nineteen-oh-something, but you wouldn't have to be a supercentenarian.

However, so far I haven't seen evidence of anybody but Neve and (possibly) Crank (if you count 1800 as part of the eighteenth century) who has done so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Si Amigo
I have to be a bit skeptical about this. You mean that no one born on December 31, 1800 made it to 1904? Or that a similar person in born in 1799 didn't make it to 1904? You don't have to be 108 to get the title. Seems that at least one other person born near the last year of the century should have made it to 1904. To have someone who was born 8 years before the century was over would appear to be bucking the odds.
It's certainly possible that there was an undocumented centenarian somewhere who fulfilled those conditions; lots of people didn't have accurate birth records, after all.
#14
Old 09-22-2011, 03:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimstu View Post
... However, so far I haven't seen evidence of anybody but Neve and (possibly) Crank (if you count 1800 as part of the eighteenth century) who has done so. ...
It's CRONK!

Not Crank. Not Crook. Cronk!

Get your dope straight, people.
#15
Old 09-22-2011, 06:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aspidistra View Post
I'll start the bidding off with Margaret Ann Neve 1792 - 1903
Thank you. This is very interesting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey Finn View Post
From that list, Hiram Crook (April 29, 1800 – May 13, 1905) seems like a good candidate.
stuyguy is going to make sure you never make it to the 22nd Century.
#16
Old 09-22-2011, 11:27 PM
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Another interesting fact about Hiram Cronke is that it is impossible to type his surname correctly.
#17
Old 09-23-2011, 05:59 AM
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Found a better one
Augusta Hejnek 1799 - 1908
#18
Old 09-23-2011, 07:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aspidistra View Post
Found a better one
Augusta Hejnek 1799 - 1908
Very interesting.
#19
Old 09-23-2011, 08:57 AM
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My favourite bit of that page was the family message over the right hand side:

"Merry Christmas, we love you and miss you.
- Your Family
Added: Dec. 18, 2007"

They'd been missing that lady a LONG time!
#20
Old 09-23-2011, 09:03 AM
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Theoretically, all you would have to do is live 100 years and one second. Born on December 31, 1800 at 11:59:59pm and die on January 1, 1901 at 12:00midnight.

I think the problem is what the OP alluded to. The birth records in the late 18th century were non-existent in most parts of the world. Certainly none of the United States had central registries. The only way to "verify" a birth date would be from family bibles and (then) word of mouth. A when you do that, you have the problem of some shyster taking the name of his stillborn older brother and using it to say he was 100+ years old. There were no drivers licenses, social security numbers, or any other forms of ID to even verify that a person was who he claimed to be.

Even records for the oldest living person TODAY are frustrated by verification problems in the records, even in first world countries.

Last edited by UltraVires; 09-23-2011 at 09:04 AM.
#21
Old 09-23-2011, 11:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stuyguy View Post
Check out the photo of Margaret Ann Neve on the web page linked in Aspidistra's post. Judging from the shape of that, umm... thing... in her hand, maybe her trick to long life was the same as the one that Ernest Borgnine claims keeps him young.
You mean the book in her hand? Borgnine said that books kept him young.
#22
Old 05-20-2016, 04:45 PM
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The original poster here was very prescient. It is now May 2016, some 10 years after 2006, and there is indeed only one living survivor from the 1800's, so the post was right on target!
#23
Old 05-20-2016, 05:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lgevirtz View Post
The original poster here was very prescient. It is now May 2016, some 10 years after 2006, and there is indeed only one living survivor from the 1800's, so the post was right on target!
To spare people a google search : Emma Morano. She's already on the list of the ten oldest people ever (10th, and in two days 9th).
#24
Old 05-20-2016, 07:06 PM
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What time did they cut the umbillical cord ? James Grieve 1 Jan 1800 26 Nov 1910
#25
Old 05-20-2016, 07:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimstu View Post
You'd have to be at least a centenarian to make it from seventeen-ninety-something to nineteen-oh-something, but you wouldn't have to be a supercentenarian.

However, so far I haven't seen evidence of anybody but Neve and (possibly) Crank (if you count 1800 as part of the eighteenth century) who has done so.
\

Just for completeness, here's another one.

Aunt Cloe Stevens, born a slave in South Carolina in 1794; died in Texas 1901.

I don't know what sort of record might exist of her birth, but she is buried in the same cemetery as her former owners (the Dever family), who brought her to Texas in the 1820s, so presumably they thought they knew. (see, e.g., a history of the cemetery here.)
#26
Old 05-20-2016, 09:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slash2k View Post
\

Just for completeness, here's another one.

Aunt Cloe Stevens, born a slave in South Carolina in 1794; died in Texas 1901.
Well thats quite old,107, but generally 110 would be remarkable, someone for the city or state to remember.

But the OP wants the person who was born in 1799 or before and lived longest into the 20th century. So a 102 two year hold who lived to 1901 beats a 199 year old who lives to 1900. We don't necessarily want the oldest person to live through the 19th century, but the one which lasted longest into the 20th century.


For example, here's a hoax from 1926... Saying he died age 126.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/ar...s=l-decade=192

But a couple of records put that as a hoax.
http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.co...-10/1287899156
#27
Old 05-20-2016, 09:32 PM
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http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/ar...|||l-year=1909

death reported in 1909, " Mrs Kate Cebelane, who died at Carrigdangan, County Cork, was 110".
So its 1799 to 1909 ? or hoax.
#28
Old 05-20-2016, 10:00 PM
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Or thomas fitzgerald, died Jan 1909, http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/10702541

Eliza Coglan, died at 115 ? in 1910. http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/ar...s=l-decade=191

Was Captain Diamond, Goddard E. Diamond, 116 in 1913 ?
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/ar...s=l-decade=191

But it seems that dying at age 110 - 115 isn't so special and its hard to find records that would be exhaustive..

Last edited by Isilder; 05-20-2016 at 10:03 PM.
#29
Old 05-20-2016, 10:22 PM
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Not directly related to the OP, but Sarah Knauss was frikkin robbed. Robbed! I tell you.

Last edited by Aspidistra; 05-20-2016 at 10:22 PM.
#30
Old 05-17-2017, 01:20 AM
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I think we will have a verified person alive at age 127 in the next decade or two. But I think 130 is about the way-up-there limit.
#31
Old 05-17-2017, 05:15 PM
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Pilgrim Shadow, the only way that could possibly happen is if the current record holder lives for another decade. Which could happen, but it's about a 1 in 1000 chance: People up in that age range seem to exponentially decay with a half-life of about a year, so she'd have to make 10 coin flips in a row to live for 10 years.
#32
Old 05-18-2017, 08:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chronos View Post
Pilgrim Shadow, the only way that could possibly happen is if the current record holder lives for another decade. Which could happen, but it's about a 1 in 1000 chance: People up in that age range seem to exponentially decay with a half-life of about a year, so she'd have to make 10 coin flips in a row to live for 10 years.
I remember the first time I saw an actuarial table and noted the age when the odds of dying in a given year became 50-50. This was from a CRC handbook* from way back when so that age was in the 90s. It's higher now, around 108 for US citizens according to the SSA. But the odds keep getting worse. Almost 90% at 119.

But remember: Never tell me the odds.

* Those old CRC handbooks from the 30s were full of amazing stuff.
#33
Old 05-18-2017, 09:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ftg View Post
I remember the first time I saw an actuarial table and noted the age when the odds of dying in a given year became 50-50. This was from a CRC handbook* from way back when so that age was in the 90s. It's higher now, around 108 for US citizens according to the SSA. But the odds keep getting worse. Almost 90% at 119.
.
It might be different where you are, but I remember believing the same thing for a while mistakenly. That was because the French office of statistics just didn't include people aged 100 and older in their tables. As a result, in those actuarial tables, people in their late 90s had a very short life expectancy (age of death was artificially maxing at 100). When, a dozen years ago, they finally included centenarians, the life expectancy of those people suddenly jumped to three years (IIRC).
#34
Old 05-18-2017, 09:38 AM
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ftg writes:

> . . . But the odds keep getting worse. Almost 90% at 119.

How can that be? There have only been two people who lived to be even 118 (for whom there are reliable records), Jeanne Calment, who lived to be 122 years and 164 days, and Sarah Knauss, who lived to be 119 years and 97 days. So the odds of living for another year at 119 is 50%. There's probably some way of normalizing the odds though, since two people is obviously too small a sample:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oldest_people
#35
Old 05-18-2017, 09:44 AM
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Recent thread on same topic. To quote myself:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Really Not All That Bright View Post
Margaret Neve made it from 1792 to 1902. There's also Mary Ramsey Wood, who reportedly made it from 1787 to 1908.
Note, however, that Wood's claim seems a bit dubious.
#36
Old 05-18-2017, 07:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Isilder View Post

But the OP wants the person who was born in 1799 or before and lived longest into the 20th century.
Nope, the OP states the 18th century which includes 1800. The 18th century is not synonymous with the 1700s
#37
Old 05-18-2017, 10:49 PM
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My sons were born in 1998 and 2000, so they may make it to 2100. I was born in 1964, so it likely ain't gonna happen for me.
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