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#1
Old 12-01-2011, 10:26 PM
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A man I grew up with was falsely convicted of capital murder. Is there anything you can do to help?

I just found out that a person I grew up with was given the My Cousin Vinnie treatment without the good outcome and I don't know what can be done about it.

His name is Jason Payne and he took one of his kids to school one morning only to come home and find both his wife and stepson dead from gunshot wounds in separate parts of the home. The stepson was a disturbed young man and still had the rifle that killed him next to him. It was initially ruled a murder-suicide. Case closed until months later when the DA and forensics team came up with another scenario labeling Jason as killer. Somehow a jury bought it and gave him life in prison.

I grew up with Jason and his whole family. I am still friend's with his sister. You can't ever say you know anyone perfectly but to say something like that would be unheard of for any of them would be an understatement. The put a perfectly innocent person in prison for life based on nothing but conjecture and bad circumstantial evidence. I am questioning my support for the death penalty because of this case even though he didn't get it.

You can make up your own mind about though. What do you think based on this independent article?

Are there any lawyers in Texas around or any advocacy groups that could help if you think he is innocent?
#2
Old 12-01-2011, 10:35 PM
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There doesn't appear to be any motive for Jason Payne to have killed his wife and stepson. There does appear to be motive for his stepson to have killed himself, and possibly others. It seems to me like he's innocent.
#3
Old 12-01-2011, 11:21 PM
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Check out The Innocence Project?
#4
Old 12-02-2011, 12:38 AM
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I don't know whether the guy did it or not but based off of what little I've read, it appears that at the very least there's quite a bit of reasonable doubt.
#5
Old 12-02-2011, 01:19 AM
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Interesting case. So Jason lost on appeal too, is that correct?

Are there any other articles available that provide the reasoning of why Jason is guilty?
That article is slanted in favor of his innocense.

We have seen the Pro-Jason reasoning, what about the Anti-Jason reasoning? What convinced the first jury and again the appeals court of his guilt?
#6
Old 12-02-2011, 05:20 AM
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An appeals court really doesn't assess guilt. All an appeals court does is see if there were any omissions or wrongful "things" done by the prior court.

Appeals courts really are there to see if there were procedural errors made by the lower court.

And judges don't like to overturn decisions. Remember when a judge says the other court is wrong, they are publicly correcting their colleges and in a sense saying, they didn't know how to do their job. It's not something they like to do.
#7
Old 12-02-2011, 04:06 PM
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I have connections to the Innocence Project, so I'll see what I can do, but I have to warn you, it can be hard to prove someone's innocence. They need to get permission from a lot of the people who put him away to do anything on it.
#8
Old 12-02-2011, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by kimera View Post
I have connections to the Innocence Project, so I'll see what I can do, but I have to warn you, it can be hard to prove someone's innocence. They need to get permission from a lot of the people who put him away to do anything on it.
That would be much appreciated kimera. I really and truly be believe he is 100% innocent and so do many other people. It sounds like a good case for a group like that.
#9
Old 12-02-2011, 05:48 PM
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Shagnasty, out of curiosity, with this newest friend of yours, exactly now how many convicted murderers are you claiming to have grown up with?

Is your other friend, the one who is serving a sentence of "Life with NO possible chance of parole, EVER" still being released from prison EVERY DAY to work a maintenance job in the Louisiana State Capital Building (Baton Rouge) and then when the workday is over turning himself back into the prison?

(I ask because in Utah, when they tell a prisoner that he has absolutely NO CHANCE OF EVER getting paroled, they generally don't let him out to work on his own each and every day, as I guess they figure the guy has no incentive to play by the rules, as he fully knows he will never, ever, EVER get legally released, and therefore doesn't have anything to lose by making a break for it)
#10
Old 12-02-2011, 06:05 PM
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Originally Posted by MPB in Salt Lake View Post
Shagnasty, out of curiosity, with this newest friend of yours, exactly now how many convicted murderers are you claiming to have grown up with?
I am not sure exactly what you are insinuating here but, to answer your question, I grew up with quite a number of people later convicted of murder among other things. This is the only one that I believe is innocent. The other person you are referring to is indeed doing a life sentence. I got info on his current status from another one of his friends who joined this board just to share some things about his current status. If you are curious, I can forward you those messages. I will have to count how many other murderers I know. I worked with a couple in high school and know 5 - 10 others through various associations if I thought about it. I take it that isn't typical.

That is all beside the point though. I am most worried about this one.

Last edited by Shagnasty; 12-02-2011 at 06:07 PM.
#11
Old 12-03-2011, 12:37 PM
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She sent the message along, but you should still contact both the Cardozo Innocence Project (which is national) and the Texas Innocence Project. Everyone in this thread who wants to help can send a message along too.

However, these projects have a huge uphill battle. I asked her for a summary of what it takes to overturn a conviction and she said that in addition to the other issues,
Quote:
The reason why its so difficult is because the standards for post-conviction cases are incredibly high. They very state by state, but the majority of the time you have to have new evidence, evidence that was not presented at trial, and this evidence has to be of such a high magnitude that the court has to believe it could have made a difference in the jury's decision to convict. Thus, many times courts will look at new evidence and say yeah, it's new, but the jury would have convicted the person anyway.
#12
Old 12-03-2011, 02:33 PM
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Thanks for your help kimera!
#13
Old 12-03-2011, 06:20 PM
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I know I said thanks in my last post kimera but I wanted to thank you again for giving some concrete people to contact. I just talked to his sister and even that level of hope means a whole lot. They are going to see what they can do based on the information you provided.

They were trying to collect 'Likes' on his advocacy of innocence Facebook page. (warning: lots of religious references). That is a feel good measure but I don't think the justice system responds to Facebook without more solid steps. Everyone, feel free to click the 'Like' button on it yourself if you are a member of Facebook. It gives a wrongly convicted prisoner some reassurance at least.

The family is going to pursue the advocacy leads given.

Last edited by Shagnasty; 12-03-2011 at 06:23 PM.
#14
Old 12-04-2011, 06:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Dallas Jones View Post
Interesting case. So Jason lost on appeal too, is that correct?

Are there any other articles available that provide the reasoning of why Jason is guilty?
That article is slanted in favor of his innocense.

We have seen the Pro-Jason reasoning, what about the Anti-Jason reasoning? What convinced the first jury and again the appeals court of his guilt?
I, too, am curious as to what persuaded the police/sheriff/etc...to change their theory, and what were the DA's arguments.

hh
#15
Old 12-04-2011, 06:58 PM
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Originally Posted by handsomeharry View Post
I, too, am curious as to what persuaded the police/sheriff/etc...to change their theory, and what were the DA's arguments.

hh
Which I now know since I have read the article!

Note to self: Read first, post second!)

hh
#16
Old 12-07-2011, 03:01 PM
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Not sure if you realized, but the Court of Criminal Appeals in Austin recently decided to hear his appeal (it's discretionary, just as the U.S. Supreme Ct. may decide to hear or not hear appeals). His first issue is sufficiency of the evidence. It appears the lower appeals court didn't consider the record entirely accurately in coming to its decision. Now, the Austin court might decide the evidence is straight-up insufficient and enter an acquittal. But if it does decide the lower court didn't properly consider the record, it might just send it back for them to do it again. Of course, there's the possibility the CCA will just find there was enough evidence to convict based on the trial record. So that will be interesting.

His second issue is the admission of hearsay. The lower court found error was committed, but that he wasn't harmed by it. If you know what the hearsay was from his wife's sister-in-law, it's seems clear it was harmful to him. So if he doesn't prevail on the sufficiency issue, he very well could have this one go in his favor. But, that would only reverse the conviction and kick it back to the state to decide to either re-try him or offer a deal, most likely.

The CCA will hear oral arguments from the lawyers sometime in the new year. Just wanted to let you guys know.

Last edited by gargoyle75; 12-07-2011 at 03:02 PM.
#17
Old 12-08-2011, 09:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dallas Jones View Post
Interesting case. So Jason lost on appeal too, is that correct?

Are there any other articles available that provide the reasoning of why Jason is guilty?
That article is slanted in favor of his innocense.

We have seen the Pro-Jason reasoning, what about the Anti-Jason reasoning? What convinced the first jury and again the appeals court of his guilt?
According to this article http://hlrgazette.com/2008-articles/...r-charges.html

A cloth with the stepson's blood was found in Payne's truck and the rifle used was apparently wiped for fingerprints.
#18
Old 12-08-2011, 01:28 PM
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The cloth had a small amount of Nicole's blood on it (not the step-son's), and it wasn't fresh blood. Payne said Nicole had hooked herself in the hand a while back while fishing. I've seen in two articles about the gun having no fingerprints and the suggestion it was wiped clean, but could never find where that was made an issue in the trial record (which I read most of).
#19
Old 12-08-2011, 07:04 PM
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Thanks for the info gargoyle75. That sounds promising. I forwarded your responses to the family just to make sure they have all the info you do. The explanations of the legal issues are very helpful.

Last edited by Shagnasty; 12-08-2011 at 07:07 PM.
#20
Old 12-19-2011, 01:32 AM
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Nichole was trying to leave him. They were sleeping in separate rooms. He had life insurance on her and Austin but none on himself.
#21
Old 12-20-2011, 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by jpdidit View Post
Nichole was trying to leave him.
Hearsay from her sister. My question to Shagnasty about that sister was going to be: How nutty was the sister, or how likely was it that she would say something like that for attention (either media or 'I knew/loved my sister BEST'). Were Nicole and her sister close? Did the sister not like Jason?
Quote:
They were sleeping in separate rooms.
There was 'evidence' of sleeping in separate rooms. They have small children, ask anyone with small children whether or not they've sent a spouse into a different room so that one could get some sleep while the other took care of the baby.
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He had life insurance on her and Austin but none on himself.
I didn't see where it said they had life insurance on the son.
#22
Old 12-20-2011, 12:31 PM
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I believe it was Nicole' sister-in-law, i.e., her brother's wife, who gave that hearsay testimony.

Jason told the investigator that Nicole was sleeping in the other room for some temporary reason like she was sick, I can't recall exactly.

There was insurance on the step-son, but it was only a rider that would basically cover funeral expenses. The Court of Appeals didn't find the insurance evidence to be powerful. Jason had come into a large settlement from a car crash a while before the crime, and had used the money to buy their house outright, pay off vehicles, and buy the life insurance on Nicole and Austin. There was evidence that he planned to add himself at a later date, and that he could have gotten a lot higher insurance coverage for not much more money.
#23
Old 02-27-2013, 11:43 AM
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Update : The Texas Court of Criminal Appeals (TCCA) handed down their decision today and reversed the decision by the 12th District Court of Appeals and remanded Jason's case to the Wood County Trial Court for a 2nd trial.

Whoo Hoo! I wish the appeals court just let him go for good but a 2nd trial should work too. There has been a lot more evidence that surfaced since the first trial that shows he is innocent. He will have a real defense team this time as well.
#24
Old 02-27-2013, 12:05 PM
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Glad to hear there is at least a new trial!

One comment from your OP.

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Originally Posted by Shagnasty View Post
I am questioning my support for the death penalty because of this case even though he didn't get it.
I hope you now realize why many, including myself, are pretty much against the death penalty. I mean, unless there is actual video footage of someone committing murder, or they are caught in the act of committing murder, there will always be that slight chance the person is innocent. At one point, the Governor of Illinois stopped all executions in the State of Illinois, due to so many cases being less than air-tight. (Not sure if that ban still exits?)

Hopefully this personal example will be enough for you too to jump to the "liberal" side and agree that the death penalty is something that should not be used lightly.
#25
Old 02-27-2013, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by DMark View Post
I hope you now realize why many, including myself, are pretty much against the death penalty. I mean, unless there is actual video footage of someone committing murder, or they are caught in the act of committing murder, there will always be that slight chance the person is innocent. At one point, the Governor of Illinois stopped all executions in the State of Illinois, due to so many cases being less than air-tight. (Not sure if that ban still exits?)

Hopefully this personal example will be enough for you too to jump to the "liberal" side and agree that the death penalty is something that should not be used lightly.
I concur. I don't think I could fully remove the death penalty - but there have been too many injustices over the years for me to have full faith in the idea that someone should be put to death over reasonable doubt - it should be absolutely no doubt. Video evidence or it's equal.


To the OP congratulations on the appeal. As an aside, no snark or anything intended, if the retrial ends in conviction again how would this make you feel? Would you be able to accept that perhaps your friend was indeed guilty or would it cement in your mind the injustice of the system?
#26
Old 02-27-2013, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by 2gigch1 View Post
To the OP congratulations on the appeal. As an aside, no snark or anything intended, if the retrial ends in conviction again how would this make you feel? Would you be able to accept that perhaps your friend was indeed guilty or would it cement in your mind the injustice of the system?
He's not guilty. I am as sure as any person who wasn't there when it happened could be. I honestly believe the new trial will end well this time.

If he is somehow found guilty again, I guess I will have to accept that but it won't be right. There was never any evidence that he did it in the first place. There was plenty of evidence that his stepson committed a murder-suicide and it was obvious to the police when they responded to the call. The theory that it was a double-murder was made up months later with the help of a corrupt forensics "expert" and somehow the original jury was dumb enough to buy it. The new defense team will be much better prepared this time.

Last edited by Shagnasty; 02-27-2013 at 01:05 PM.
#27
Old 02-27-2013, 08:39 PM
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Originally Posted by DMark View Post
I hope you now realize why many, including myself, are pretty much against the death penalty. I mean, unless there is actual video footage of someone committing murder, or they are caught in the act of committing murder, there will always be that slight chance the person is innocent. At one point, the Governor of Illinois stopped all executions in the State of Illinois, due to so many cases being less than air-tight. (Not sure if that ban still exits?)

Hopefully this personal example will be enough for you too to jump to the "liberal" side and agree that the death penalty is something that should not be used lightly.
Point taken. I am not against the death penalty philosophically because some people really deserve it and I believe you need to have a step up from the usual life in prison for some rare and heinous crimes but I do understand how the justice system can go horribly wrong now.

This is a true My Cousin Vinnie case. I know a few other people with life sentences for various violent crimes including murder and the rest of them are all guilty as hell no matter how they want to spin it. This is a rare type of case that most defense attorneys only see a handful of times in their career. Jason just took his kids to school and came home to find his wife and stepson dead. He called the police while dealing with the tragedy of just losing two family members. The police determined it was a murder-suicide by the stepson who had a history psychological problems and the stepson even had the gun in his dead hands when they found him.

Somehow, months later, that got twisted a plot line no rational person would believe yet a Texas jury was dumb enough to buy it because the defense did not put up much of a fight because they never thought a conviction was possible.

It must be hell on earth to be convicted of something like that when you weren't even there but it could theoretically be any of us including you. Even when he does win his 2nd trial, he already lost years off of his kid's lives and has to deal with the economic and social ramifications for being in a maximum security prison no matter how unjust it was. A Hollywood type scene with clapping at the closing credits won't fix it all.
#28
Old 02-27-2013, 08:51 PM
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I'm not offering an opinion one way or the other but from the first article you linked to it looks like there were a lot of suspicious facts surrounding the case and that it's not quite as cut and dry in his favor as you made it seem. I'm looking specifically at this portion:

Quote:
A litany of other questions surfaced among the detectives.

Why was there a strong smell of gun powder in the room where Nicole was found and not in the garage? Why was Taylor's body cold to the touch while Nicole's was warm?

While the investigation continued, Jason Payne paced beside his white Dodge pickup, his small daughter with him and Wood County Sheriff's Deputy Misty Burns watching him.

The deputy would write in her report, "He was crying the whole time I was at the scene. In my opinion, it was not grief related to the loss of his wife and stepson."

Inside the home, detectives discovered "freshly laundered" clothes in the washing machine and dryer and evidence that Jason and Nicole had not been sharing a bedroom.

.....

Family also said two large holes on an adjacent property were dug to find the contents of an old house and not dug for graves as authorities suggested.


The gun powder issue, the body heat issue, his emotions/body language outside the house, the fresh laundry, and the holes that were dug up are all very suspicious, especially when taken as a whole. One or two of these facts would be easy to brush off but taken together it starts to paint a picture.

ETA:

This comment under the article by a family member of the deceased is also interesting:
Quote:
If only all of you knew the REAL story about this killer who KILLED my cousin! Taylor was the sweetest kid you could ever meet. Jason on the other had a couple of weeks before he killed taylor and his mother went and bought Taylor a truck with no brakes for Taylor to drive, suspicious???? Taylor's mother offered to, et Taylor stay at my house a couple hours away from his mother because she was worried for him because of Jason's attitude towards him. Next couple of weeks went by and two of my family members were killed by this trash called Jason. Evidence shows HE murdered my family and if he WAS innocent he might not be in prison but since the evidence shows Jason Payne killed them. Look where that put him. PRISON! Hope all of you who believe this trash story can actually find out the true facts behind this horrible tragedy this man did. Have a nice day

Last edited by GrandWino; 02-27-2013 at 08:54 PM.
#29
Old 02-27-2013, 09:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Ducca View Post
I'm not offering an opinion one way or the other but from the first article you linked to it looks like there were a lot of suspicious facts surrounding the case and that it's not quite as cut and dry in his favor as you made it seem. I'm looking specifically at this portion:

The gun powder issue, the body heat issue, his emotions/body language outside the house, the fresh laundry, and the holes that were dug up are all very suspicious, especially when taken as a whole. One or two of these facts would be easy to brush off but taken together it starts to paint a picture.

ETA:

This comment under the article by a family member of the deceased is also interesting:
The garage was unheated and it was cold at the time of death. It gets cold even in Texas in the early morning. That accounts for the discrepancy in the temperature of the bodies.

I don't know how much experience with firearms you have but scents disperse much more slowly in an enclosed and insulated space than they do in garage. Garages can't be tightly sealed because of what they are and what is used in them. Try firing a gun in your house and see how long the smell of gunpowder lasts. I have done it myself because my father was firearms dealer and I used to open up the sliding glass doors of our living room to fire into one of our pistol ranges outside. The smell lasts for a long time and my mother made me stop doing that only because of the lingering smell. Fire one from a garage, the smell lasts just a few minutes.

They had a large property and liked to dig for things like all of us did as kids. It is pretty sick to think people are only making holes for potential graves. In any case, those were never used so they are irrelevant. When I was growing up with him, we made large holes all over the place to find whatever cool thing we could or just to build something. I dug a crawfish pond by hand once and we always excavated for Native American relics as a hobby and found lots of them. People from urban areas may not understand that but country people dig holes on their property for lots of reasons. He was teaching his kids to do the same thing.

How do you think you would react if took your kids to school and came home to find your wife and stepson dead in a murder-suicide? I think pacing and crying would be the least I would do and I would not appreciate anyone saying after the fact that I didn't act the 'right way' when I was in shock? Have you ever been through anything similar? How did you react or what do you think the most appropriate reaction would be?

In any case, all of everything you posted is circumstantial and overwhelmed by other evidence that it was a simple murder suicide. He wasn't even at the house at the time. They might as well said one of us did it. Where were you that morning?

Last edited by Shagnasty; 02-27-2013 at 09:47 PM.
#30
Old 02-27-2013, 10:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Shagnasty View Post
In any case, all of everything you posted is circumstantial and overwhelmed by other evidence that it was a simple murder suicide. He wasn't even at the house at the time. They might as well said one of us did it. Where were you that morning?
Oh, I was murdering someone else that day. I'm cool.
#31
Old 02-28-2013, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Shagnasty View Post
In any case, all of everything you posted is circumstantial and overwhelmed by other evidence that it was a simple murder suicide. He wasn't even at the house at the time. They might as well said one of us did it. Where were you that morning?
I agree that the issues Bob brought up are circumstantial. I also don't have a sense of this case one way or another but I am curious about the bit above. How do you know he wasn't there? If you know he wasn't, did you testify at his trial as an alibi witness?
#32
Old 02-28-2013, 11:02 AM
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Bob Ducca makes some valid points. I'll wait to see the outcome of all this.
#33
Old 02-28-2013, 02:58 PM
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I agree it's circumstantial evidence, which is why I mentioned that on their own they could be explained away. However, when circumstantial evidence begins to accumulate, it becomes corroborating evidence;.

Most trials are decided on corroborating evidence, since most criminals try to do their best to hide any direct evidence. Timothy McVeigh was convicted using mostly circumstantial evidence, and a University of Michigan law professor said about that case: "Circumstantial evidence can be, and often is much more powerful than direct evidence."

Who knows though, I'm very interested to see how this turns out.
#34
Old 02-28-2013, 03:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Ducca View Post
I'm not offering an opinion one way or the other but from the first article you linked to it looks like there were a lot of suspicious facts surrounding the case and that it's not quite as cut and dry in his favor as you made it seem. I'm looking specifically at this portion:





The gun powder issue, the body heat issue, his emotions/body language outside the house, the fresh laundry, and the holes that were dug up are all very suspicious, especially when taken as a whole. One or two of these facts would be easy to brush off but taken together it starts to paint a picture.

ETA:

This comment under the article by a family member of the deceased is also interesting:
Wow, that's some real crack detective work. Did this ace dick note a temperature difference between the garage and the house in the report or was she too busy trying to interpret the guy's grief? Was the garage door opened at any point allowing odor to disperse? Did Detective Misty offer any suggestions on why she thought the guy's grief was faked? Laundry? So not only did he wash and dry his murder clothes, he started another load, too? Was it only the murder clothes in the laundry or did he collect enough for a full load? And the icing on the cake, comments posted for an internet news article.
#35
Old 02-28-2013, 04:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Bob Ducca View Post
I'm not offering an opinion one way or the other but from the first article you linked to it looks like there were a lot of suspicious facts surrounding the case and that it's not quite as cut and dry in his favor as you made it seem. I'm looking specifically at this portion:
Bloody hell that is some weak sauce. I am surprised you wrote that with a straight face. Some cop thought that the guy pacing and crying outside was not crying in grief? Freshly laundered clothes in the washing machine of all places? Behave yourself.
#36
Old 02-28-2013, 04:49 PM
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Bloody hell that is some weak sauce. I am surprised you wrote that with a straight face. Some cop thought that the guy pacing and crying outside was not crying in grief? Freshly laundered clothes in the washing machine of all places? Behave yourself.
I'm just playing devil's advocate here and was very clear that I don't have a strong opinion on this case either way.

Obviously none of us were there to see what the guy's emotions/demeanor were like. The cop was, and even though they noted that he was pacing and crying - it did not seem to be from grief in that person's viewpoint. Cops are trained to know what to look for for that sort of thing.

Look, I hope that if the guy is innocent that they figure it out and they let him go. But from everything we've been shown/told, none of us have any way of knowing and it's all speculation.
#37
Old 03-01-2013, 04:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Bob Ducca View Post

Obviously none of us were there to see what the guy's emotions/demeanor were like. The cop was, and even though they noted that he was pacing and crying - it did not seem to be from grief in that person's viewpoint. Cops are trained to know what to look for for that sort of thing.
(My bolding).

First off, I'd like to see a cite that cops are trained to accurately evaluate whether an emotional reaction to a traumatic event is *appropriate*. And given that it was one individual police officer making that observation, I have every reason to doubt the validity of such a claim.

Second, given that the notion of *appropriate* is extremely fluid, may I present the case of Lindy Chamberlain, mother of an infant taken by a dingo in Central Australia.


Lindy Chamberlain was tried in a court, but also tried by the public when she showed a lack of affect in describing the death of her daughter in the early days after the tragedy. IOW, Lindy didn't cry in front of the media cameras (didn't behave *appropriately*), and therefore, according to many, she was guilty as charged.

Good luck to your friend Shagnasty, I hope the new court views the evidence dispassionately and returns a just verdict, whatever that might be.

Cheers
kam
#38
Old 03-01-2013, 11:55 AM
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Good luck to your friend.

What's happened to his kids in the meantime?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Ducca View Post
I'm not offering an opinion one way or the other but from the first article you linked to it looks like there were a lot of suspicious facts surrounding the case and that it's not quite as cut and dry in his favor as you made it seem. I'm looking specifically at this portion:





The gun powder issue, the body heat issue, his emotions/body language outside the house, the fresh laundry, and the holes that were dug up are all very suspicious, especially when taken as a whole. One or two of these facts would be easy to brush off but taken together it starts to paint a picture.

ETA:

This comment under the article by a family member of the deceased is also interesting:
But the freshly-laundered clothes had no traces of blood on them. Washing does not get all traces of blood out. And a family home having freshly-laundered clothes in the machine is simply normal. This really does not count as circumstantial evidence at all.

The holes are also a bit of a side-track, since there was never any attempt to dispose of the bodies. I mean, really, if the claim is that this man wanted to kill his wife and step-son for the insurance, wouldn't he want them found? You can't claim on someone who might still be alive somewhere. Also not circumstantial evidence.

Emotions are hard to read, but saying that someone was crying in the wrong way is ridiculous.

You might be playing devil's advocate, but if satan existed, he'd be holding his horned head in his hands right now.
#39
Old 03-01-2013, 01:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Ducca View Post
The gun powder issue, the body heat issue, his emotions/body language outside the house...
See, now, these are the sorts of things I think are baloney, but most especially the old "the suspect wasn't reacting the way I think people should react in extraordinary circumstances."

What you have here is a person who was visibly upset and crying, but according to the recollection of one person at the time, the way he was crying wasn't "right" for a person whose wife and stepson had just been shot to death. (Police officers are certainly NOT trained to know what kind of crying is appropriate in such circumstances.) Tell me; what exactly is the correct way to cry in that circumstance?

If I lost someone that close to me I have no idea what my immediate physical reaction would be; the emotional shock would be so great it's impossible to predict. Characterizing the "he wasn't crying right" bit as being evidence of any meaning whatsoever is just ludicrous. It means absolutely nothing.

Last edited by RickJay; 03-01-2013 at 01:03 PM.
#40
Old 03-01-2013, 04:22 PM
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What does 'cool to the touch' have to do with it? Doesn't the M.E. check liver temp? Doesn't that give a more accurate time of death?
#41
Old 03-02-2013, 01:29 AM
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The quote from the deputy about how she interpreted his crying sounds like complete bs and I don't know how anyone with an IQ over 70 would seriously consider her unfounded opinion as anything relevant. Was this in Mississippi? Did they have a quack bullet trajectory "expert" there, too? States use so much false "evidence" to get their false convictions. It's sad that intelligent people fall for this.
#42
Old 02-20-2016, 10:36 PM
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I was reminded of this case when I received a Google Alert regarding another Jason Payne involved with another murder.

It says here that the OP's Jason Payne got a new trial scheduled for July 14, 2014. Does anyone have any updates?
#43
Old 02-21-2016, 01:26 AM
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The Free Jason payne twitter account posted that the 2014 date had been postponed and then posted an article in the summer of 2014 that stated the DA would be recusing himself. I don't see anything new since then. Perhaps OP knows.
#44
Old 02-21-2016, 01:39 AM
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A pro- guilt facebook page posted:

NEW trial date March 7, 2016.


FWIW, Almost all the pro-guilt blogs and facebook groups are really heavy on some "He must be guilty because God found him guilty at the trial and he was a sinner" type of comments.

Last edited by actualliberalnotoneofthose; 02-21-2016 at 01:43 AM.
#45
Old 02-21-2016, 01:47 AM
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His Facebook page says that the trial will begin on March 8th of this year.

https://facebook.com/TheWrongful...onOfJasonPayne
#46
Old 02-21-2016, 04:15 AM
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Why call the forensics expert "corrupt"? I'm assuming that you mean "the cops have a theory and the FE just went along with it", but, I'd like to be sure of it. To me, "corrupt" means that somebody will gain, personally, by giving incorrect testimony.

Last edited by handsomeharry; 02-21-2016 at 04:16 AM.
#47
Old 02-21-2016, 04:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anomie View Post

It says here that the OP's Jason Payne got a new trial scheduled for July 14, 2014. Does anyone have any updates?
No update, but, I read your link. Man, it sounds to me like the guy was a real Fruit Loop! Of course, the appeals ct. found that it wasn't admissible, but, legal technicality aside, if what Hawthorne said was true, there's no reason, from my reading of the concurring opinion, to believe that the defendant wasn't the murderer.

Last edited by handsomeharry; 02-21-2016 at 04:27 AM.
#48
Old 02-21-2016, 07:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by handsomeharry View Post
No update, but, I read your link. Man, it sounds to me like the guy was a real Fruit Loop! Of course, the appeals ct. found that it wasn't admissible, but, legal technicality aside, if what Hawthorne said was true, there's no reason, from my reading of the concurring opinion, to believe that the defendant wasn't the murderer.
Hey is not a Fruit Loop in the least. He had some personal problems when his step-son killed his wife and then himself but then it got into unimaginable nightmare territory after the original and completely unexpected conviction. He comes from a good a loving family. I know them all over several generations and they are all excellent people just as he is. He isn't just a little innocent based on a technicality - he is completely innocent because he wasn't even there when his stepson killed his own mother and then himself.

In any case, his original conviction was completely overturned so he is not even technically a felon anymore but he has still been in jail all this time because the bail for the new trial was still set too high for anyone to meet. It isn't the job of the new trial for people to wonder if he maybe did it through some tortured logic. It is a new start from scratch and they have to prove it beyond reasonable doubt because the first trial never happened legally speaking.

Part of the delay in the new trial is for his own benefit. The Innocence Project and his lawyers have to put up an adequate defense this time because you cannot assume that you won't get the dumbest jury in Texas history once again.
#49
Old 03-06-2016, 10:24 PM
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The new trial is coming up this week. Keep your fingers crossed because the life of an innocent person depends on it. My hope is that he won't get the 2nd dumbest jury in Texas history. He is a kind person that that stumbled across some horrible circumstances just through association. The scary thing is that it could happen to you, me or anyone else. This is a true My Cousin Vinny case. The injustices he has been subjected to can never be corrected but at least he can join his kids again to attempt to live a normal life.

I know many violent convicted felons that are guilty of their crimes. He is the only one that I know personally that is completely innocent. His original case was already overturned so it now depends on a new jury having some common sense.

Keep him in mind if you want to have faith in the U.S. Justice system. He has been in jail even since his original conviction was overturned because bail was set too high for anyone to meet. The only way this is going to get better is when the jury declares him 'Not Guilty' in a week or so.

Last edited by Shagnasty; 03-06-2016 at 10:28 PM.
#50
Old 03-06-2016, 10:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shagnasty View Post
I know many violent convicted felons that are guilty of their crimes.
Any particular reason you are acquainted with so many violent criminals?
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