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#1
Old 07-28-2012, 01:13 AM
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Red hair like the Joker... how is this happening?

I don't understand this.

I remember reading in some survey that the top two most instantly recognizable villains in the western world were 1. Darth Vader and 2. The Joker.

So how is it that this keeps coming up, in article and newscast, one after the other, that the maniac who shot up Aurora dyed his hair "red like the Joker."

The Joker has GREEN hair! How is this not common knowledge? I know I'm a bit of a geek, but I didn't think you needed to be a geek to know that!
#2
Old 07-28-2012, 01:15 AM
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Here you go.
#3
Old 07-28-2012, 01:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nzinga, Seated View Post
ONE scene in ONE version of the many movies, where the Joker is specifically dressed as someone who isn't the Joker.

That just makes no sense.
#4
Old 07-28-2012, 01:24 AM
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He was also dressed up in black body armor like Mickey Mouse. He threw smoke bombs like Sonic the Hedgehog too.

Last edited by Jragon; 07-28-2012 at 01:25 AM.
#5
Old 07-28-2012, 01:25 AM
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It was a pivotal scene in what lots of people of the shooter's generation consider THE joker performance of all time.
#6
Old 07-28-2012, 01:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nzinga, Seated View Post
It was a pivotal scene in what lots of people of the shooter's generation consider THE joker performance of all time.
That still doesn't make it make sense, unless you couldn't grasp even the basics of the fact that the Joker was wearing a costume. Do I have rainbow hair because I dressed up as a clown one year for Halloween?

It makes sense as something one stupid reporter got wrong, but not something that would keep spreading after the majority of people would tell them they were factually inaccurate.
#7
Old 07-28-2012, 01:56 AM
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Look, I also was like WTF. But after some Batman fans broke it down to me, I understood a bit better. It is possible that the reporter didn't get it wrong. It is possible the shooter was paying homage to that particular scene when he died his hair.

But, let's be honest here; I have no fucking clue.
#8
Old 07-28-2012, 02:09 AM
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I just don't get why they're making this insanely tenuous connection to the Joker's single red-haired scene in the first place. He wasn't dressed like the Joker, and wasn't tricky like the Joker, didn't set up any elaborate mind games or whatnot. Just dressed in black body armor and then blasted away.

The whole "he was pretending to be this bad man, look how awful it is to dress up/pretend to be other people/influence of the violent media!" thing is really being stretched to the point of snapping on this one.
#9
Old 07-28-2012, 02:12 AM
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A police officer told the press that he said, "I am the Joker". That's why the press ran with that. A statement like makes the story more sensational so that the t.v. can sell it to viewers.
#10
Old 07-28-2012, 02:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Feyrat View Post
I just don't get why they're making this insanely tenuous connection to the Joker's single red-haired scene in the first place. He wasn't dressed like the Joker, and wasn't tricky like the Joker, didn't set up any elaborate mind games or whatnot. Just dressed in black body armor and then blasted away.
When arrested, he told police "I am The Joker." So that was what initially led reporters to that scene. But yes, the fact that it was a single scene should have clued everyone in by now that the dude is just a fruitcake and wasn't actually aping The Joker.
#11
Old 07-28-2012, 08:37 AM
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In the 60s TV series the Joker played by Cesar Romero occasionally had red hair.

Joker

Joker

Joker

Last edited by edwards_beard; 07-28-2012 at 08:37 AM.
#12
Old 07-28-2012, 08:39 AM
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No one has pointed out yet that the Joker is wearing a wig when he's dressed as a nurse.
#13
Old 07-28-2012, 09:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bozuit View Post
No one has pointed out yet that the Joker is wearing a wig when he's dressed as a nurse.
Not to mention it isn't bozo red. I don't think the nurse scene has anything to do with it. As a very casual fan, I will say that when I first read about the shooter declaring himself The Joker, I realized he meant a Ledger rather than Romero type of Joker but in my mind I saw the character from the '60s TV show and really didn't give it a second thought. I think the average person who isn't a big fan just has sort of a composite mental image of The Joker and if someone plants "red hair" in their mind, they have no trouble picturing him that way.
#14
Old 07-28-2012, 09:20 AM
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The media is lazy and stupid. The Joker had crazy hair. The suspect had crazy hair. Ergo they are the same.

Last edited by Quimby; 07-28-2012 at 09:20 AM.
#15
Old 07-28-2012, 09:34 AM
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He said he was the joker. The fact that red hair dye is easier to find that green combined with the fact that he is batshit crazy makes it plausible he was trying to look like the joker in his mind. Would you prefer if every time the media mentioned he said he was the joker they insert an editorial note stating that the joker had green hair?
#16
Old 07-28-2012, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loach View Post
He said he was the joker. The fact that red hair dye is easier to find that green combined with the fact that he is batshit crazy makes it plausible he was trying to look like the joker in his mind. Would you prefer if every time the media mentioned he said he was the joker they insert an editorial note stating that the joker had green hair?
Yes, actually, because that would reinforce the fact that the shooter is batshit insane, rather than the current inference which is that people who are interested enough in popular or counter-culture to dress up like characters are unhinged and likely to start shooting places up.

I happen to be a regular cosplayer, and I'm planning to wear costumes around Atlanta during Dragon*con this year. I'm not going as the Joker, but I have played as Harliquin before. I'd rather not get detained on the MARTA for suspicion of being a mass murderer, thanks.
#17
Old 07-28-2012, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edwards_beard View Post
In the 60s TV series the Joker played by Cesar Romero occasionally had red hair.

Joker

Joker

Joker
I appreciate that those images appear to back you up, but that statement is incorrect. Cesar Romero's joker makeup always included green hair. Those images are either degraded or suffer from very poor lighting which is creating a false reddish hue.
#18
Old 07-28-2012, 10:14 AM
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I'm thinking that if a guy is off enough that arming himself to the teeth and bursting into a darkened theatre to massacre people sounds like a great idea, maybe that guy also can't be trusted to get the details of a costume down correctly.
#19
Old 07-28-2012, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Lasciel View Post
Yes, actually, because that would reinforce the fact that the shooter is batshit insane, rather than the current inference which is that people who are interested enough in popular or counter-culture to dress up like characters are unhinged and likely to start shooting places up.

I happen to be a regular cosplayer, and I'm planning to wear costumes around Atlanta during Dragon*con this year. I'm not going as the Joker, but I have played as Harliquin before. I'd rather not get detained on the MARTA for suspicion of being a mass murderer, thanks.
Too bad ain't gonna happen. I hope you understand that the more important fact is that he thought (or wants us to think) he was being the Joker. Not that he wasn't a good enough fan to get the costume right. Unless you want to reinforce the stereotype that fanboys are living in their mother's basement completely divorced from reality.

"12 dead in Aurora Co." "OMG his hair should be GREEN!"
#20
Old 07-28-2012, 10:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nzinga, Seated View Post
A police officer told the press that he said, "I am the Joker". That's why the press ran with that.
Exactly. Of course since then the police have backed away from this statement somewhat, so I'm left wondering what he really said and how unambiguous it really was. I'm also willing to cut the guy a little slack on the fine points of his costume being that he's a fucking maniac. If he said he was dressed as the Joker, that's good enough for me even if the hair color might be wrong. However it's not clear to me if he really said that. We may have to wait for the trial or longer.
#21
Old 07-28-2012, 10:27 AM
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i never did trust ronald mcdonald
#22
Old 07-28-2012, 10:31 AM
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I don't know about you, but if reinforcing the "lives in basement" stereotype puts me and dozens of other "fanboys" into a category further away from the "insane mass murderer" stereotype, then, yes, I'll take that.

I much prefer a slightly mocking and easy-to-dispute stereotype about intrapersonal skills and nerdiness than one where people call the cops because they worry that I'm going to blow them away simply because I'm dressing up as a character from a film or book.

Please understand - I KNOW the dude is unhinged, and that he was either basing that unhingedness or purposefully relating that unhingedness to a specific character for his own unhinged purposes. I just think that character relation is secondary to the unhinged part.

That's why I think it's unfortunate that everyone in the media is harping on the "OMG he dressed up like the Joker" aspect. People watching this trial unfold are going to pay most attention to and remember the parts that are repeated, and it's been repeated MANY TIMES that he was "dressed like the Joker."

I would really rather them repeat multiple times that he was dressed in kevlar, and that he told a police officer that he was the Joker, which is the actual truth, makes his mental state a bit more clear, and doesn't make everyone worried about harmless freaks like me who like dressing up in costume for fun events rather than for mayhem.

I understand that it's not going to happen, because the truth isn't a neat soundbyte that leads directly into a superficial examination of "violent movies" influencing behavior for their news show, but yes, it does bother me.
#23
Old 07-28-2012, 10:35 AM
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It's partly not going to happen because of the reasons you stated. It's mostly not going to happen because it's totally irrelevant if he tried to look like the Joker and got the hair color wrong.

Maybe he is color blind.
#24
Old 07-28-2012, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Loach View Post
Maybe he is color blind.
I'm a bad person - I laughed.
#25
Old 07-28-2012, 10:38 AM
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"Well Anderson it's important to note that the Joker actually had green hair. Some Batman fans are quite upset about that."
#26
Old 07-28-2012, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Lasciel View Post
I'm a bad person - I laughed.
I was snarking but I bet the colors look pretty similar to my brother.
#27
Old 07-28-2012, 10:50 AM
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People think this is the Joker.

http://thegreatwhitedope.blogspot.co...interview.html
#28
Old 07-28-2012, 10:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loach View Post
He said he was the joker. The fact that red hair dye is easier to find that green combined with the fact that he is batshit crazy makes it plausible he was trying to look like the joker in his mind.
Could that be the plan, or am I overthinking it?

"Your honor, my client pleads not guilty by reason of insanity. Could he tell right from wrong? Why, he couldn't even tell green from red! He'll testify that he believes himself to be the sworn enemy of Batman -- and then spell out that he thinks Batman got his powers from a radioactive spider bite!"
#29
Old 07-28-2012, 11:04 AM
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Red/Green color blindness, may-hap?
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#30
Old 07-28-2012, 11:24 AM
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Judging from the arraignment photos, I think someone's confused The Joker with Sideshow Bob.
#31
Old 07-28-2012, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by SuperNelson View Post
Judging from the arraignment photos, I think someone's confused The Joker with Sideshow Bob.
And Batman with Bartman.
#32
Old 07-28-2012, 11:33 AM
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He wasn't dressed like the Joker. His hair was probably already red. He just didn't change it nor his clothes once he decided that he was the Joker.
#33
Old 07-28-2012, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by KneadToKnow View Post
I appreciate that those images appear to back you up, but that statement is incorrect. Cesar Romero's joker makeup always included green hair. Those images are either degraded or suffer from very poor lighting which is creating a false reddish hue.
I believe they were taken from the original batman movie trailer, if you watch the trailer, the joker has red hair there too. Interestingly enough...the same scenes in the movie itself he has green hair.

original trailer

Last edited by edwards_beard; 07-28-2012 at 12:03 PM.
#34
Old 07-28-2012, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Loach View Post
It's partly not going to happen because of the reasons you stated. It's mostly not going to happen because it's totally irrelevant if he tried to look like the Joker and got the hair color wrong.

Maybe he is color blind.
You're missing the point, probably deliberately so you can laugh at the basement-dwelling fanboys instead of paying attention.

He WASN'T dressed like the Joker. At. All. The hair color is the least of the things he got wrong. It's entirely wrong, there was absolutely zero about him that was Joker-like. The fact that he may have said "I am the Joker" means about as much as if he'd said "I am the Eggman, I am the Walrus." Nothing.

What irritates me is that the media is running with the "crazy fan of the movie dressed as the Joker thing," based on a hair color that isn't even close to the correct color for that costume, and continues to reinforce it.

And no, the lighting or treatment in those pictures of Cesar Romero is bad. His hair is green in those pictures. It looks red because of the lighting.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-UHbEpaVVkO...mero-joker.jpg
#35
Old 07-28-2012, 12:39 PM
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I blame Carrot Top and all his "fancy toys".
#36
Old 07-28-2012, 12:44 PM
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Other people have speculated that he was dressed as Bane based on his gas mask even though the mask was functional and not a costume choice. The angle is just too tempting for some people to ignore, which is unfortunate because it's really stupid and kind of childish. Even if he'd been in perfect Heath Ledger getup, the driving force behind his actions was the fact that he's a psycho. So what if he happened to latch onto the Batman franchise instead of blaming it on Jesus or his neighbor's dog? A sick brain - hell, a healthy one, too - can pluck meaning and messages out of anything.
#37
Old 07-28-2012, 12:46 PM
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People keep talkin' about him, baby.
#38
Old 07-28-2012, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by edwards_beard View Post
I believe they were taken from the original batman movie trailer, if you watch the trailer, the joker has red hair there too. Interestingly enough...the same scenes in the movie itself he has green hair.

original trailer
Compare this image to the second one from the above list. It's clearly the same picture and it's clearly green hair. The problem is with the color reproduction.
#39
Old 07-28-2012, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Nzinga, Seated View Post
That's not the Joker, though.

Last edited by kaylasdad99; 07-28-2012 at 01:28 PM.
#40
Old 07-28-2012, 01:35 PM
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Maybe he thought he was Jim Carey's Riddler?
#41
Old 07-28-2012, 02:00 PM
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The police officer who made the statement to the press wasn't an Aurora cop. He was Ray Kelly, New York City police commissioner. No idea why he was the one giving statements. I certainly find the claim that he said that shaky.

But, I think some people underestimate the effect the Ledger performance had on a lot of people. It was a performance that was embraced by its audience on a game changing level. He is considered THE fucking Joker for a generation. That particular scene did resonate with a lot of people. I can see some madman watching a scene that blew his mind, taking a random aspect of it and running with it. He could as easily have worn a nurse's hat instead and it would have made 'sense' to me.

But, 'blew his mind' is the operative phrase. The man is sick. So, I don't think that Batman fanboys should take the media response personally at all. No rational observer is going to assume that counter-culture fans are 'unhinged' over this. It's not about the Joker even if it was about the Joker. It's mainly been about the media exploiting the most affecting aspects they can find in order to make sure the story drives emotions in the viewer.

ETA: Kaylasdad99, my point is that I think for certain fans nowadays, my linked Joker IS THE joker. Here is a link to a man in Maryland man who threatened violence in the name of the Joker. I have no way to know one way or the other, but if I were a betting woman, I would bet he means Ledger's Joker.

Last edited by Nzinga, Seated; 07-28-2012 at 02:04 PM.
#42
Old 07-28-2012, 02:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nzinga, Seated View Post
The police officer who made the statement to the press wasn't an Aurora cop. He was Ray Kelly, New York City police commissioner. No idea why he was the one giving statements.
He may have been in front of a camera because he was talking about movie theater safety measures in New York. Or because he just wanted to be in front of a camera, for that matter.

Quote:
But, I think some people underestimate the effect the Ledger performance had on a lot of people. It was a performance that was embraced by its audience on a game changing level. He is considered THE fucking Joker for a generation.
Well, yes, but at the risk of making a bunch of people feel old, Jack Nicholson played the character in 1989. The shooter is 24, so if he is talking about the Joker, he is probably talking about Heath Ledger. That's not so much because Ledger was great (although I think he was) as because that would be this guy's pop culture frame of reference.
#43
Old 07-28-2012, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Marley23 View Post
Well, yes, but at the risk of making a bunch of people feel old, Jack Nicholson played the character in 1989. The shooter is 24, so if he is talking about the Joker, he is probably talking about Heath Ledger. That's not so much because Ledger was great (although I think he was) as because that would be this guy's pop culture frame of reference.
Oh yes, agreed! On all counts.
#44
Old 07-28-2012, 02:21 PM
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nvm

Last edited by Simplicio; 07-28-2012 at 02:24 PM.
#45
Old 07-28-2012, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Simplicio View Post
Yea, the guy went to the trouble to get body armour, smoke grenades, gas mask, etc. If he wanted to look like the Joker, I assume he would've put at least a little effort into looking like the Joker. Thrown on some face paint and maybe a purple jacket over the body armour.

Other then the one very questionably sourced statement, I don't see any evidence that Batman really played much of a role in the guys delusions. For all we know, he may have just picked a showing of Batman because it would draw large crowds, and he'd have been as happy shooting up The Avengers first showing if he'd decided to do what he did a few months earlier.
Exactly, yes!

And the counter-culture (if you want to call it that? I think of Batman and his rabid fans as much more in the mainstream at this point) is getting tarred with this brush. Lots of theaters are now making rules forbidding people to come in costume to opening nights, which is a bummer. And they're doing is because "supposedly" this guy was dressed as the Joker. If he HAD been dressed as the Joker, I could see it, but since it's entirely a media fabrication - and one that everyone should recognize because the ONE identifying feature is entirely wrong - it's very aggravating.
#46
Old 07-28-2012, 02:32 PM
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It was probably like one of the Simpson things. He was respecting the letter of the copywrite by making a subtle change in look. You certainly wouldn't want to risk being sued by DC after a murder spree.
#47
Old 07-28-2012, 02:36 PM
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Maybe he's his own reincarnation of the Joker. He didn't have face makeup on, either.
#48
Old 07-28-2012, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Feyrat View Post
Exactly, yes!
I erased the original post because I though I remembered there was other evidence that he was inspired by Batman. But googling, the other stuff I remembered was pretty weak as well. So I'll go back to my original claim: he may have been inspired by Batman, but the actual evidence he did so is pretty much that one quote about being the Joker that was mentioned by a cop being interviewed on the other side of the country. It's entirely possible he just picked a crowded movie showing at random. If he'd cracked last summer, he may have been just as happy shooting up Avatar instead.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Feyrat
And the counter-culture (if you want to call it that? I think of Batman and his rabid fans as much more in the mainstream at this point) is getting tarred with this brush. Lots of theaters are now making rules forbidding people to come in costume to opening nights, which is a bummer. And they're doing is because "supposedly" this guy was dressed as the Joker. If he HAD been dressed as the Joker, I could see it, but since it's entirely a media fabrication - and one that everyone should recognize because the ONE identifying feature is entirely wrong - it's very aggravating.
I doubt such bans will last very long, but I can't blame movie theaters for banning costumes. Whether Holmes was actually dressed up or not, there's a perception that he was, and rationally or not people are scared of copycatters. Since theater owners want people to come to their movies with a minimal fear of being shot by a body-armoured nutbag, a temporary ban seems reasonable.
#49
Old 07-28-2012, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Simplicio View Post
If he'd cracked last summer, he may have been just as happy shooting up Avatar instead.
But then the question becomes, where did he get the time machine?
#50
Old 07-28-2012, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Feyrat View Post
Lots of theaters are now making rules forbidding people to come in costume to opening nights, which is a bummer. And they're doing is because "supposedly" this guy was dressed as the Joker. If he HAD been dressed as the Joker, I could see it, but since it's entirely a media fabrication - and one that everyone should recognize because the ONE identifying feature is entirely wrong - it's very aggravating.
There are a few separate issues here. Nobody is saying he wore a Joker costume. Even hair dye would not have made that a Joker costume- on a basic level I think you'd need a purple suit, white face paint with red lipstick, and green hair. Reports are saying maybe he identified himself as the Joker. The costume ban is idiotic and I hope it will not last, but as far as I can tell, the justification for that is twofold: there are some reports that nobody was alarmed when he re-entered the theater with guns, a helmet, and body armor because they thought maybe he was in costume. I would think that that made minimal difference, but maybe if people had started running immediately instead of a few seconds later maybe some more people would have made it out of the theater unharmed. On top of that, banning costumes and fake weapons would make it easier to find someone who was carrying a gun or wearing armor even though the shooter was dressed normally when he bought his ticket and took his seat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Simplicio View Post
So I'll go back to my original claim: he may have been inspired by Batman, but the actual evidence he did so is pretty much that one quote about being the Joker that was mentioned by a cop being interviewed on the other side of the country. It's entirely possible he just picked a crowded movie showing at random. If he'd cracked last summer, he may have been just as happy shooting up Avatar instead.
At least one person who knew the shooter in 2008 mentioned that he was a Batman fan. That doesn't mean there is a straight line between his fandom and the shooting, of course.

Last edited by Marley23; 07-28-2012 at 02:51 PM.
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