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#1
Old 08-21-2012, 08:42 PM
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How much did the Jedi know about Anakin and Padme

I presume they did not know about the pregnancy until near the end of the ROTS. As they have not kicked Anakin out, I suppose they were in the dark about the marriage too. It would seem that they were oblivious. But Obi Wan went to Padme to ask about Anakin and seemed to think she would know, makes me wonder how much they actually knew.
#2
Old 08-22-2012, 02:48 AM
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Obiwan knew of course, he was there in the stadium in AOTC with them when they shared a kiss and professed their love for one another. He also earlier in the movie knew Anakin was obsessed with Padme.

I suspect Anakin vowed that they had ended it after that, but remember the first battle of the war started in the same stadium, I imagine that kept everyone busy enough he did not have time to worry about it. I also suspect Obiwan knew something was up with them since they were constantly together, but again he didn't pursue it.

Obiwan himself had sexual and romantic relationships against the Jedi code when he was younger. In fact I wonder if people aren't making too big a deal out of the celibacy thing, just because it is policy doesn't mean it will get you summarily kicked out. More like relationships are not allowed, but hey if you do well no biggie, it certainly seems common for Jedi to flaunt the rule.
#3
Old 08-22-2012, 09:08 AM
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Obi-Wan: "The baby is Anakin's? I'm so sorry". He leaves.
#4
Old 08-22-2012, 10:05 AM
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obi-wan "thanks for the sabre, I'll make sure your son gets this when he's ready to hunt you down to save his sister" - oh, too soon?
#5
Old 08-22-2012, 11:28 AM
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I believe Yoda must have suspected that Anakin harbored feelings for someone, if not specifically Padme.

Anakin asks Yoda directly why Jedi are not allowed to "love", IIRC, and Yoda gives his reasoning (emotions clouding judgement, I think). Yoda, who is a little bit empathic, should have been able to tell that this was not just an intellectual question as far as Anakin goes. (To be fair, I bet all Padawan going through puberty (or it's analogue) struggle with these issues.)

[He should have mentioned that the mates of Jedi may become victims of bad folks seeking revenge on that Jedi, blackmail, and coercion, too. Why didn't he mention these possiblilities?]

Yoda had "visions" of the furture (portrayed on screen as audio only), and Mace Windu came in and reclined on a sofa/chair to wait until Yoda snapped out of it. Yoda merely says that the future is difficult to see, with emotions clouding it. However, with a little discrete snooping about, and I think Yoda might have been able to figure out who Anakin had a crush on.

Last edited by mlees; 08-22-2012 at 11:29 AM.
#6
Old 08-22-2012, 11:33 AM
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I think such things were routine among the Jedi, and everybody just looked the other way. Everyone knows the rule, and knows that the rule is stupid, and that nobody obeys it.
#7
Old 08-22-2012, 12:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grude View Post
Obiwan knew of course, he was there in the stadium in AOTC with them when they shared a kiss and professed their love for one another. He also earlier in the movie knew Anakin was obsessed with Padme.

I suspect Anakin vowed that they had ended it after that, but remember the first battle of the war started in the same stadium, I imagine that kept everyone busy enough he did not have time to worry about it. I also suspect Obiwan knew something was up with them since they were constantly together, but again he didn't pursue it.

Obiwan himself had sexual and romantic relationships against the Jedi code when he was younger. In fact I wonder if people aren't making too big a deal out of the celibacy thing, just because it is policy doesn't mean it will get you summarily kicked out. More like relationships are not allowed, but hey if you do well no biggie, it certainly seems common for Jedi to flaunt the rule.

Obi-Wan definitely knew. He wasn't stupid. And since Anakin was his best friend, I'm guessing he kept his mouth shut. He might not have known they were actually married, but he knew they had a relationship. And there most likely plenty of Jedi to have families.

And Jedi don't have to be celibate, but they can't have "official relationships":

Quote:
But Lucas revealed that despite their monastic regime, Jedi were permitted to have sex.

"Jedi Knights aren't celibate - the thing that is forbidden is attachments - and possessive relationships.
So basically they can do the "friends with benefits" thing. Or visit whores.
#8
Old 08-22-2012, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Guinastasia View Post
Or visit whores.
Recall that the sole means through which the Jedi replenish their ranks is through the "acquisition" of force-sensitive children shortly after they are born. Presumably "convincing" the parents that life would be better for their child at the Jedi Academy is a lot less complicated if these children are born into whorehouses, than it is if they are born into the households of high-ranking senators.*

Of course, for female Jedi, I assume there is a quietly-taught force ability like "force-supress-ovulation" to prevent any embarrassing situations.

[*I know some star wars theorists think that force ability isn't strictly genetic, but you'd have a hard time inferring anything else from what we see on-screen.]
#9
Old 08-22-2012, 01:40 PM
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Of course, for female Jedi, I assume there is a quietly-taught force ability like "force-supress-ovulation" to prevent any embarrassing situations.
Of course, for female Jedi, the original movies implied that they didn't even exist. Why else would "No, there is another" have been so surprising to Obi-Wan?
#10
Old 08-22-2012, 04:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Jonathan Chance View Post
Obi-Wan: "The baby is Anakin's? I'm so sorry". He leaves.
I could never tell if that statement was genuine or a snarky burn. When I saw it in theaters, the audience (including myself) laughed at that line, but I think Lucas meant it to be genuine.
#11
Old 08-22-2012, 05:23 PM
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Originally Posted by SecretaryofEvil View Post
I could never tell if that statement was genuine or a snarky burn. When I saw it in theaters, the audience (including myself) laughed at that line, but I think Lucas meant it to be genuine.
I thought he was serious. He probably sensed that the relationship was already strained ("force-detect anxiety" meter pegged when visiting Padme), and the complication of a child makes any break up all the more tragic.
#12
Old 08-22-2012, 06:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Guinastasia View Post



So basically they can do the "friends with benefits" thing. Or visit whores.
Sexdroids.
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#13
Old 08-22-2012, 09:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SecretaryofEvil View Post
I could never tell if that statement was genuine or a snarky burn. When I saw it in theaters, the audience (including myself) laughed at that line, but I think Lucas meant it to be genuine.
There's a reason it's one of the few lines in the prequels that stuck with me. It's direct, filled with sympathy, and Ewan MacGregor gives it all the emotional impact possible. With just seven words he sums up the whole twisted situation.
#14
Old 08-22-2012, 10:22 PM
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Quote:
I wonder if people aren't making too big a deal out of the celibacy thing, just because it is policy doesn't mean it will get you summarily kicked out. More like relationships are not allowed, but hey if you do well no biggie, it certainly seems common for Jedi to flaunt the rule.
Hey, only a Sith deals in absolutes.

(Wait, that's -- um -- yeahbuhwhat?)
#15
Old 08-22-2012, 10:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Chronos View Post
Of course, for female Jedi, the original movies implied that they didn't even exist. Why else would "No, there is another" have been so surprising to Obi-Wan?
Who said he was surprised? Yoda says "No, there is another," the Xwing blasts off, fade to black. We never see Obiwan's reaction.
#16
Old 08-23-2012, 01:13 AM
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Originally Posted by leahcim View Post
I think such things were routine among the Jedi, and everybody just looked the other way. Everyone knows the rule, and knows that the rule is stupid, and that nobody obeys it.
Well Padme says in ROTS that if word gets out of her pregnancy, Anakin woukd be expelled and she would have to resign. Makes me think that that everybody did not just "look the other way". Of course pregnancy is a far bigger thing than a simple relationship and presumably the Council will look even less kindly on a relationship with an influential senator than they would with a random Courasant chick.
#17
Old 08-23-2012, 09:20 AM
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Originally Posted by AK84 View Post
Well Padme says in ROTS that if word gets out of her pregnancy, Anakin woukd be expelled and she would have to resign. Makes me think that that everybody did not just "look the other way".
I believe the original script said, "If word gets out, and it's an election year, and the Chancellor tries to shore up sagging popularity by pandering to the 'values voters', Anakin would be expelled".
#18
Old 08-23-2012, 10:26 AM
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Considering a Sith Master rose in power to become Chancellor, ran both sides of a civil war and engineered their downfall right under their noses, I would not put to much faith in the observational powers of the Jedi Order.
#19
Old 08-23-2012, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Death of Rats View Post
Considering a Sith Master rose in power to become Chancellor, ran both sides of a civil war and engineered their downfall right under their noses, I would not put to much faith in the observational powers of the Jedi Order.
Well, that's what the Sith do, after all. I've never read any EU stuff, but presumably one of the Sith powers is "screw with those light-side fellows abilities".

Last edited by Folacin; 08-23-2012 at 10:39 AM.
#20
Old 08-23-2012, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Folacin View Post
Well, that's what the Sith do, after all. I've never read any EU stuff, but presumably one of the Sith powers is "screw with those light-side fellows abilities".
I thought there was some throw-away line in one of the movies about how the Jedi know that their abilities are getting weaker and that being caused by or causing shit happening, and they don't want to tell anybody because they'll gang up on them.

Here it is:

Yoda: Blind we are, of creation of this clone army we could not see.
Mace Windu: I think it is time we inform the senate that our ability to use the force has diminished.
Yoda: Only a Dark Lord of the Sith knows of our weakness. If informed the senate is, multiply our adversaries will.
#21
Old 08-23-2012, 12:21 PM
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Never mind the Jedi Council, everyone else seems to be clueless as well. There is a Clone Wars episode where Padme is holding a dinner at her place and Anakin is there, greeting people, playing host and generally acting like the man of the house. They should have found out in 10 minutes.
#22
Old 08-23-2012, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by The Other Waldo Pepper View Post
Hey, only a Sith deals in absolutes.

(Wait, that's -- um -- yeahbuhwhat?)
Then why does Yoda say "do or do not - there is no try"? That's pretty absolute right there.

And the Jedi should have known not only that she was pregnant, but that there were twins. Both had the Force, and it should have been sensed even in the womb.
#23
Old 08-23-2012, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Sister Vigilante View Post
Then why does Yoda say "do or do not - there is no try"? That's pretty absolute right there.

And the Jedi should have known not only that she was pregnant, but that there were twins. Both had the Force, and it should have been sensed even in the womb.
Can't. They would have been violating the "Woman's Girly Bits Privacy Edict" of 43457, enacted by the Jedi Council after it was discovered that certain young male Padawan were using their force abilities to spy on the girl's washroom.
#24
Old 08-23-2012, 01:16 PM
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<waves hand>

You are having an amazing time - this is the best sex you have ever had.
#25
Old 08-23-2012, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by simster View Post
<waves hand>

You are having an amazing time - this is the best sex you have ever had.
Wasn't that a scene from X-Men: First Class?
#26
Old 08-23-2012, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by simster View Post
<waves hand>

You are having an amazing time - this is the best sex you have ever had.
Heh.

<waves hand at CPS>

"These are not the deabeat dads you're looking for."
#27
Old 08-23-2012, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Sister Vigilante View Post
And the Jedi should have known not only that she was pregnant, but that there were twins. Both had the Force, and it should have been sensed even in the womb.
Assumes facts not in evidence. From what I recall in Phantom Menace (and the slaughter scene in Revenge of the Sith), it seems like they don't test/recruit until maybe 3-5 years of age. There is no way to know when midichlorians [spit] develop or perhaps fully express themselves.

Could be tied to second molars or something.
#28
Old 08-23-2012, 03:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Folacin View Post
Assumes facts not in evidence. From what I recall in Phantom Menace (and the slaughter scene in Revenge of the Sith), it seems like they don't test/recruit until maybe 3-5 years of age. There is no way to know when midichlorians [spit] develop or perhaps fully express themselves.

Could be tied to second molars or something.
More likely wisdom teeth.
#29
Old 08-23-2012, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Sister Vigilante View Post
Then why does Yoda say "do or do not - there is no try"? That's pretty absolute right there.
He avoids absolutes in everything, including the "always avoid absolutes" rule.
#30
Old 08-23-2012, 07:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Guinastasia View Post
Obi-Wan definitely knew. He wasn't stupid. And since Anakin was his best friend, I'm guessing he kept his mouth shut. He might not have known they were actually married, but he knew they had a relationship. And there most likely plenty of Jedi to have families.

And Jedi don't have to be celibate, but they can't have "official relationships":



So basically they can do the "friends with benefits" thing. Or visit whores.
Even then, there are times when exceptions are granted, like Ki Adi Mundi, the conehead Jedi, who was allowed to marry because his homeword had a severe population issue. (Though that was actually a retcon because of a comic written about his married life before Ep II came out and made up the no attachments stuff).
#31
Old 08-24-2012, 08:27 AM
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Quote:
Quote:
Hey, only a Sith deals in absolutes.

(Wait, that's -- um -- yeahbuhwhat?)
Then why does Yoda say "do or do not - there is no try"? That's pretty absolute right there.
You get that "only a Sith deals in absolutes" is already pretty absolute, right?
#32
Old 08-24-2012, 09:57 PM
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Originally Posted by The Other Waldo Pepper View Post
You get that "only a Sith deals in absolutes" is already pretty absolute, right?
Well, yes and no....
#33
Old 08-25-2012, 12:13 AM
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Originally Posted by The Other Waldo Pepper View Post
You get that "only a Sith deals in absolutes" is already pretty absolute, right?
Exactly
#34
Old 08-25-2012, 01:11 AM
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Originally Posted by The Other Waldo Pepper View Post
You get that "only a Sith deals in absolutes" is already pretty absolute, right?
It's also the refutation for a lack of absolute morality. "Everything's relative" is an absolute statement.
#35
Old 08-25-2012, 01:27 AM
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Was that line supposed to make Obiwan look foolish? I mean he is simply not taking Anakin on at all, even though it has just been exposed that the whole Jedi order were manipulated like fools into fighting a fake war for years, while a sith lord ran things right under their noses.

Obiwan at that moment seems like the definition of lawful dumb, Anakin is obviouslly insane and evil but Obi should at least be given pause at how foolish the jedi were.
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