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#1
Old 12-19-2012, 12:44 AM
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A friend, my wife, her panties. NSFW

I don't even know how the hell to go about handling this situation and I sure as hell do not want to share it with any of my friends or tell my wife, since the individual I'm about to address has all the same friends in common.

So, here it is: I left a friend of mine at my home alone while I went to a store that takes about 30 minutes to get there and back. Upon leaving the house, about three or four miles down the road, I realized I had left my wallet on my computer desk. Rather than knocking before coming in the door, which I wouldn't do at my own home anyways, I just walked in. Upon walking in I noticed my friend wasn't in my living room, although his car was still at my house. No problem, he was welcome to stay while I was away.

I grabbed my wallet off the computer and went back to our guest bedroom to see if he was in there, since the last time I saw him he was using my laptop at the kitchen table. The guest bedroom is at the back of the house, so there is no way he would have heard me come in. I knocked on the door to the guest bedroom and when I got no response I opened the door. He is sitting on the bed with a cat that ate the canary look on his face. Laying on the floor, about 3 foot to the right of him, is a pair of my wife's boy shorts. I asked him if he was cool and he said, "Yeah, man, how come you came back already?" I explained and told him goodbye, to which he simply responded, "later."

First and foremost, my wife's under garments are NEVER in the guest-goddamn-bedroom. Second of all, he looked guilty as hell. Third, he has been pegged by all of our female friends as "creepy" and has said some way out of the line shit while drunk in the past.

I can only assume the worst, although I want to give him the benefit of the doubt, given his track record, however, I cannot ignore what he was doing.
He was still home when I got back and he tried to act as if nothing was out of the ordinary...strangely enough my wife's underwear were not laying where they were when I returned the first time, they were put back in our laundry hamper in my bedroom. He ended up staying the night as planned and leaving the next morning without it ever being addressed.

Now, I'm not a timid guy- and am never afraid to speak my mind or say something if I think something is up. But this...this, just caught me so off guard I had no idea what to say or how to handle it. I mean...he pretty much has to know he was busted because her drawers were in plain sight.

What the hell do I do here? I'm sure as hell not going to tell my wife because she will freak out and I don't blame her. Do I say something to him? I mean...how in the hell do you even go about addressing it? Or do I even address it at all?

I mean, I don't think this is a defriending offense, but perhaps it is, I don't know. I sure as hell can't trust him to be left alone at my house anymore and someone I can't trust alone at my house isn't really a friend. I'm going to leave it up to the doper community to let me know how to handle this one...I really don't want to bust him out to my friends, which naturally, are mutual friends.

Last edited by Crime Scene; 12-19-2012 at 12:47 AM.
#2
Old 12-19-2012, 01:30 AM
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Just want to point out that's a pretty good OP to username connection. That is all.
#3
Old 12-19-2012, 01:34 AM
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hafta ask.....is there any chance your wife was under his bed?
#4
Old 12-19-2012, 01:53 AM
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Originally Posted by ShibbOleth View Post
Just want to point out that's a pretty good OP to username connection. That is all.
#5
Old 12-19-2012, 01:54 AM
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Originally Posted by cougar58 View Post
hafta ask.....is there any chance your wife was under his bed?
That cheating WHORE.

She, as far as I know, was at work 45 miles away.

Also, we didn't go for the classy guest bed setup. More a college style, box spring under the ole' mattress type. So, if she was under there, she didn't have much air left.
#6
Old 12-19-2012, 01:55 AM
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Originally Posted by cougar58 View Post
hafta ask.....is there any chance your wife was under his bed?
Good username, response combo.
#7
Old 12-19-2012, 02:33 AM
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Too creepy for my taste. I mean, do you really want to continue to hang out with a guy who jerks off in your own home with your wife's underwear? If you are positive that is what was happening, time to distance yourself. However, if he was in the room, using the computer and your wife's underwear were there already, then it's just an awkward funny situation.

If, as you say your wife's delicates are never in that room, does that mean he went into her dresser and got a pair or even worse, poked through your laundry for a used pair? That alone would skeeve me out enough to want to start punching someone. Your call since you were the one who walked in on him. But you have to decide if you can trust him and can you trust him alone with your wife? If you are going to be friends, there will come a time he will be alone with her, if that is going to make you uncomfortable then you have your answer.

Last edited by obbn; 12-19-2012 at 02:35 AM.
#8
Old 12-19-2012, 02:42 AM
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How much time has passed? Part of the decision here is that there are some things where you kind of have to do something soon, or not at all. But speaking generally, sounds like a defriending offence to me. Pretty violative to use your wife's knickers like that. And for mine, your wife is entitled to know. Her reaction will drive things after that, I suspect. But only you know the full context of the whole relationship.
#9
Old 12-19-2012, 02:45 AM
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Originally Posted by obbn View Post
Too creepy for my taste. I mean, do you really want to continue to hang out with a guy who jerks off in your own home with your wife's underwear? If you are positive that is what was happening, time to distance yourself. However, if he was in the room, using the computer and your wife's underwear were there already, then it's just an awkward funny situation.

If, as you say your wife's delicates are never in that room, does that mean he went into her dresser and got a pair or even worse, poked through your laundry for a used pair? That alone would skeeve me out enough to want to start punching someone. Your call since you were the one who walked in on him. But you have to decide if you can trust him and can you trust him alone with your wife? If you are going to be friends, there will come a time he will be alone with her, if that is going to make you uncomfortable then you have your answer.
My wife and I have been together since junior high. We stayed together through highschool and only had one extended break-up during college. The guy in question we both grew up with; his mom was my wife's baby sitter. It isn't like this is a new friend or someone we've just cultivated a relationship with. He is someone who has been around our entire life. He has been alone with my wife many times and has never said anything out of line to her. His comments that are out of line are more of spouting off about his sex life with people in the room who obviously don't want to hear about it, especially females. He's creepy towards women in that they think he is a kind of a weirdo, not like a rape vibe type weird. The fact that we've basically been life long friends makes it much more difficult or I'd just cut him off completely. In fact, I'm a groomsman in his wedding this coming July.

As for me being absolutely sure that what is what was going on I can't be 100%, however, the room was cleaned before he came and cleaned by me and my wife together; the only way her underwear got in there was by him taking them in there. Now, if he was appreciating their asthetic value that is one thing, but I seriously doubt that is what he was doing. I mean, he does have a history of relatlively weird sexual...shall we say, habits. He has looked at porn on my computer and forgot to clear the history or forgot to close a pop-up tab. Those are forgivable offenses, but this one is just...way too goddamn invasive and frankly over the line. I just don't really know how to confront him with it. He is a very truthful guy, if he is busted he will more than likely fess up. This is one of those things that is particularly embarassing, so I'm sure he will deny it, and there is no way I can prove it. I just can't decide if it is one of those defriending type things or more of a thing where we make up excuses as to why he can't stay when he comes and stays with us while he visits his parents. He lives about 120 miles away and I live in the same general area we grew up in. His parents are ultra religious and do not allow him and his fiance to stay in the same house together while they are down, so they stay here. We have the room and they really don't get in the way. This time, it was just him who came down. Since he has established the habit of staying with me when he visits that is what he did this time.

Last edited by Crime Scene; 12-19-2012 at 02:50 AM.
#10
Old 12-19-2012, 02:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Noel Prosequi View Post
How much time has passed? Part of the decision here is that there are some things where you kind of have to do something soon, or not at all. But speaking generally, sounds like a defriending offence to me. Pretty violative to use your wife's knickers like that. And for mine, your wife is entitled to know. Her reaction will drive things after that, I suspect. But only you know the full context of the whole relationship.
This is my problem: If I tell my wife there is no middle ground or negotiating. He will flat not be allowed around anymore. She wouldn't tell me, "You can't hang out with him" or anything like that, but she is sure as hell would not want him here. So far, I'm just thinking of not leaving him here alone. I mean, if he went this far what is to say he isn't rummaging through our things while he is left here alone?

Last edited by Crime Scene; 12-19-2012 at 02:48 AM.
#11
Old 12-19-2012, 02:52 AM
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Sorry for the typos and errors; I know there are some grammar and spelling nazis on the boards. It should have been aesthetic.
#12
Old 12-19-2012, 02:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Noel Prosequi View Post
How much time has passed? Part of the decision here is that there are some things where you kind of have to do something soon, or not at all. But speaking generally, sounds like a defriending offence to me. Pretty violative to use your wife's knickers like that. And for mine, your wife is entitled to know. Her reaction will drive things after that, I suspect. But only you know the full context of the whole relationship.
It was this weekend.
#13
Old 12-19-2012, 02:56 AM
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There is absolutely no doubt he either: Got them out of of her dresser or got them out of our hamper. But, I'm assuming he got them out of the hamper since that is where they were when I got back home the second time. I mean, if he got them out of the dresser I'm assuming that is where he would have put them back when he was done doing god knows what.
#14
Old 12-19-2012, 03:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crime Scene View Post
This is my problem: If I tell my wife there is no middle ground or negotiating. He will flat not be allowed around anymore. She wouldn't tell me, "You can't hang out with him" or anything like that, but she is sure as hell would not want him here. So far, I'm just thinking of not leaving him here alone. I mean, if he went this far what is to say he isn't rummaging through our things while he is left here alone?
The fact that she wouldn't want him in the house if she knew means he shouldn't be in the house. Her rules for comfort in her own home apply, even if she doesn't know the specifics.

For me, this would be a major issue. I'd no longer consider him a friend, but he would be a tolerable acquaintance in social situations with mutual friends.

Telling your wife would disturb her sense of comfort in her own home, without any real benefit. If for some reason it came up, I'd be honest, but I wouldn't go out of my way to bring it up.

Regardless of whether you choose to remain friends, acquaintances, or whatever, I'd keep in mind that the burden of awkwardness is on him. If it came down to a discussion about why we're not so close anymore and he pressed me for answers, I'd say it matter-of-factly and let him stew in the awkwardness, rather than upsetting my own sanity going to lengths to protect his feelings when he is the source of the issue. I'd avoid embarassing him in front of mutual friends, but one-on-one if needed I'd be up front about it, telling him I appreciated the years of friendship and still think fondly of him, but as a matter of taking care of the business of running my home I have no choice but to keep my distance.
#15
Old 12-19-2012, 04:11 AM
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ROFLMAO, AWKWARD! It's a good thing you knocked... imagine if you opened the door to see your wife's undies on his head and his hand on his other head. There'd be no pretending you didn't notice anything, then! (Not enough brain-bleach in the world to erase that memory!) And you know he was jackin' it, otherwise you'd think he would have had more time to hide the undies, rather than toss 'em on the floor and frantically pull up his pants.

So, yeah, that's a tough one. I definitely wouldn't tell the wife, since it will do nothing but upset her. Still, I wouldn't leave him alone at your house, or with your wife.

What was your reaction like? Did you react in any way, or obviously glance at the undies on the floor? Do you think he knows you know? Still, I probably wouldn't say anything to him about it, either way. My guess is that he won't even dare to question it if you don't leave him alone in your house again. If he does, just give him a knowing glance with a raised eyebrow, and that ought to shut him up right quick! LOL
#16
Old 12-19-2012, 04:46 AM
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Wife here. The one incident from a guy who may not have privacy at home is creepy and rude, but not necessarily a deal breaker. But he ought to look at porn on his own time in his own space, really shouldn't share much if anything about his sexual interests and exploits with friends, and shouldn't be so keyed up that he can't be left alone for 30 minutes without exploring the hamper. Seems like escalating behavior rather than an isolated incident.

Not saying he's dangerous, but definitely hasn't shown he can control his impulses or respects boundaries. You're unlikely to forget this incident anyway, if you're unable to end the relationship cold, I'd find ways to wean him out of your life. And warn the wife that you've decided to see less of him because he's not the kind of guy you'd leave alone in your house or with your wife. You could tell me what you suspected and I wouldn't overreact, I'd just say eww he's not welcome here, and would hope you'd avoid someone who displayed such poor judgement.

As fetishes go, this one seems pretty harmless when practiced at home. But going through someone else's personal things is out of line no matter the motivation. I wouldn't worry about his feelings overmuch, he certainly didn't consider yours.

Just think of the public service you've provided for panty snifferz everywhere by sharing your story. Creepers gotta be more careful. But the rest of us will never know just who's doing what with our panties. (What, like I'm gonna post a searchable keyword that will direct them here??)
#17
Old 12-19-2012, 04:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crime Scene View Post
There is absolutely no doubt he either: Got them out of of her dresser or got them out of our hamper. .

No perv would "get them from her dresser"...they just wouldn't have that certain Wessonality as those in the hamper.


(err, uhm, so I have been told...)
#18
Old 12-19-2012, 04:55 AM
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Originally Posted by cougar58 View Post
No perv would "get them from her dresser"...they just wouldn't have that certain Wessonality as those in the hamper.


(err, uhm, so I have been told...)
Oh, how convenient, your friend's here. cougar58, tell Crime Scene you're sorry and that you respect his wife and his hospitality. And never, ever, neverever, use that word in the context again.
#19
Old 12-19-2012, 05:07 AM
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Originally Posted by obbn View Post
if he was in the room, using the computer and your wife's underwear were there already.....

Wow....good catch. CS, you may want to check Ebay...my hunch is he is in the 11th hour of auctioning them off to some inmates at Joilet. Do a search under "scratch and sniff" + "women's undergarments"

Plan B: get a can of StarKist tuna, and empty it into a sealed jar of hydrosulfuric acid. Add a pair of her Fruit of the Loom's, seal jar. Set it in the hot sun for 2 days.

Place the FTL's on the top of the hamper; invite him over, then you and spouse leave for an hour.

When you return, your problem of him putting his nose where it doesn't belong, as well as potentially putting the move on her, will be solved.
#20
Old 12-19-2012, 05:13 AM
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Crime Scene, you've known this guy a long time. Man up, and tell him how disturbed you are by what you're sure he was doing. Tell him how you feel: that life-long trust that has been broken, and how utterly revolting and disrespectful he has been to your wife.

Tell him that if you even suspected anyone else of doing what he was caught doing, you'd punch their lights out.

Ask him how he'd feel if someone had done the same to his fiancÚ. If he says, "I'd be cool with that!" punch his lights out.

FWIW, I'd be so disgusted I'd tell him that I was no longer able to be his best man, and that the friendship was over. But I'd do that before I had to tell my wife why it all ended, (since she'd certainly ask) because your loyalty and protection should be toward her, not him. He's a fucking creep, and a sneaky smug arsehole.

Seriously. How can you remain friends with someone who's jerked off to your wife's dirty underwear??? And please don't think that this is the FIRST time.

I know what kind of man he is - what kind of man are you?
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#21
Old 12-19-2012, 05:24 AM
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He's the kind of guy who considers all the angles, takes the time to write out the facts and solicits other points of view in order to gain some perspective and doesn't hit people without provocation. In other words, a decent, rational guy.
#22
Old 12-19-2012, 05:34 AM
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Close friendship is over. You may be able to stay somewhat distant acquaintances... I guess.

And yeah, tell your wife. She's your wife FFS! Obviously, ex-friend can no longer stay in your house, since at minimum he can't be trusted to not snoop in your stuff, let alone not be disgusting with your wife's intimate items. So, don't you think she might be curious as to why he can't stay at your place anymore? Yeah, so tell her now, rather than next time ex-friend wants to stay. And if she ever finds out about it and realises you didn't tell her and that she wore the underwear again after that happened, you could be in for a lot of grief (or maybe she'd shrug it off, since they got washed anyway... but do you want to risk it?)
#23
Old 12-19-2012, 05:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Troppus View Post
He's the kind of guy who considers all the angles, takes the time to write out the facts and solicits other points of view in order to gain some perspective and doesn't hit people without provocation. In other words, a decent, rational guy.
There's no angle, and nothing decent and rational about justifying a jerk off rifing through your hamper and cumming to the scent of your wife. All under the guise of friendship, of course.

A decent, rational guy wouldn't even think twice about how his wife would feel about having this pervert in her home.
#24
Old 12-19-2012, 06:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Essured View Post
Close friendship is over. You may be able to stay somewhat distant acquaintances... I guess.

And yeah, tell your wife. She's your wife FFS! Obviously, ex-friend can no longer stay in your house, since at minimum he can't be trusted to not snoop in your stuff, let alone not be disgusting with your wife's intimate items. So, don't you think she might be curious as to why he can't stay at your place anymore? Yeah, so tell her now, rather than next time ex-friend wants to stay. And if she ever finds out about it and realises you didn't tell her and that she wore the underwear again after that happened, you could be in for a lot of grief (or maybe she'd shrug it off, since they got washed anyway... but do you want to risk it?)
You have to tell your wife. I mean, let's say you continue like nothing has happened, and then in a year there's another incident, either involving your wife or that you hear about through the grapevine. You wife comes to you 'Can you believe . . .". Now you are in a spot. Yes, you can believe. But your choices are to either 1) pretend you are shocked, which goes beyond "not telling" and into "active deception" or 2) be honest about your lack of surprise, which will lead to you revealing that "oh yeah, honey, a year ago I caught him jacking off into your panties and didn't want to upset you". Either choice is awful. Don't get in that spot..

He wasn't jacking off into your wife's panties because they were panties--he can get panties. He was jacking off into your wife's panties because they belong to your wife. He was thinking about her when he did it. And he was so eager to do this that the minute you walked out the door, he made a beeline for the bedroom. Whatever the two of you talked about before you left? During that conversation, he was covering up his eagerness and his impatience for you to leave. All he was thinking about was for you to hurry up so he could get back there. This wasn't a boredom thing. Your wife needs to know about this.
#25
Old 12-19-2012, 06:15 AM
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If we only had good photos of the actors I am quite sure we could determine guilt or innocence.

Please post asap.
#26
Old 12-19-2012, 06:37 AM
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OK I know it's a stretch, but..... sometimes when you wash sheets together with other stuff, small items get caught up in the sheet and you don't notice, you only notice when you are asleep under the sheets. Yeah, I know unlikely, but it happens.

Other than that, I think you should tell your wife. You have made it clear you already know how she would feel, so keeping it back seems dishonest to me. Then just tell him that you are not comfortable having him to stay anymore as you don't feel you can trust him around your laundry. You can still hang out with other friends, he just can't stay at your house anymore. That's what I'd go for.

I say that as a person who's shared flats before with people with whom it was fine to take their clothes out of the dryer and fold their knickers for them, so you could put your own load in the machine. I'm not a prude about knicker-touching among friends, but this guy clearly crossed a line. And he knows it too.
#27
Old 12-19-2012, 06:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crime Scene View Post
He was still home when I got back and he tried to act as if nothing was out of the ordinary...... He ended up staying the night as planned and leaving the next morning without it ever being addressed.
This would worry me. Did he stay because he wasn't ashamed at all, or because he was ashamed and thought a better cover up would be to act as if nothing had happened?
I'd be curious as to how much shame he feels. If he feels enough shame, he might never do anything like that again. It could be he distances himself from you.

How good a friend of yours is he, anyway? Would you lose something valuable if you lost him as a friend?

To put this in perspective, I can't find a cite at the moment, but I remember having sex with your best friend's wife or girlfriend is in the top-five of most mens fantasies. Still, doing something about it like your friend did.. at the very least, it shows a lack of boundaries, impulsiveness, and bad decision skills. I wouldn't trust him anymore, not because I'd think he would do anything to your wife, but because he might set the house on fire with his impulsive behavior.

One last disconcerting thought: what if he saw your lack of a reprimand as an implicit approval? Maybe he thinks you are waiting for him to propose a threesome with your wife?
#28
Old 12-19-2012, 07:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Manda JO View Post
You have to tell your wife. I mean, let's say you continue like nothing has happened, and then in a year there's another incident, either involving your wife or that you hear about through the grapevine. You wife comes to you 'Can you believe . . .". Now you are in a spot. Yes, you can believe. But your choices are to either 1) pretend you are shocked, which goes beyond "not telling" and into "active deception" or 2) be honest about your lack of surprise, which will lead to you revealing that "oh yeah, honey, a year ago I caught him jacking off into your panties and didn't want to upset you". Either choice is awful. Don't get in that spot..
Eh, he's got plausible deniability. He didn't actually *see* him choking his chicken. He could have been mistaken about the garment on the floor.

Unless he *wants* to completely cut this guy out of his life forever -- and if he did, he wouldn't be asking for advice -- it seems everyone will suffer if he tells her. Some things are better left unsaid, this is one of them.

Last edited by voltaire; 12-19-2012 at 07:30 AM.
#29
Old 12-19-2012, 07:31 AM
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Originally Posted by 6ImpossibleThingsB4Breakfast View Post
There's no angle, and nothing decent and rational about justifying a jerk off rifing through your hamper and cumming to the scent of your wife. All under the guise of friendship, of course.

A decent, rational guy wouldn't even think twice about how his wife would feel about having this pervert in her home.
If I found out my husband knew that one of our friends had been interested in my underwear, and he told me nothing and allowed the friend to keep coming over, I'd be pissed.

It sure sounds like the guy has an impulse control problem. All the ladies already think he's creepy. Maybe it's because he's, you know, creepy. Dude, it is NOT normal to run off to a friend's guest bedroom and pull out his wife's panties as soon as you're alone in the house. Toss him. You can find other friends.
#30
Old 12-19-2012, 07:32 AM
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It's possible they were his fiancee's panties and not your wife's, and that possibility is worth exploring before you kick the perv the fuck out of your house forever. Because you are going to kick this perv the fuck out of your house forever if those were your wife's panties.

Because sooner or later your wife will find out about this, and if you didn't kick the perv the fuck out of your house forever, she will have your and his heads (both sets) on pikes.
#31
Old 12-19-2012, 07:58 AM
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Yeah, nuh CrazyCatLady:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crime Scene View Post
There is absolutely no doubt he either: Got them out of of her dresser or got them out of our hamper. But, I'm assuming he got them out of the hamper since that is where they were when I got back home the second time. I mean, if he got them out of the dresser I'm assuming that is where he would have put them back when he was done doing god knows what.
And Antigen, totally agree with everything you've said.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Antigen View Post
Toss him.
Good choice of phrase, there
#32
Old 12-19-2012, 08:06 AM
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Originally Posted by voltaire View Post
Eh, he's got plausible deniability. He didn't actually *see* him choking his chicken. He could have been mistaken about the garment on the floor.

Unless he *wants* to completely cut this guy out of his life forever -- and if he did, he wouldn't be asking for advice -- it seems everyone will suffer if he tells her. Some things are better left unsaid, this is one of them.
I don't think it's good policy to avoid telling your wife things she'd want to know and has a legitimate interest in simply because you won't like her reaction.

If, in a year, she runs up to him and says "OMG, you won't believe what I just heard. [Creepy Guy] was in [mutual friends] bathroom jerking off into her panties", it's going to be clear that the OP is not surprised and the whole thing will come out. "Plausible deniability" is not going to be much of a defense.

Put it this way: if he had been clearly jacking off into the panties, would you change your position? Is it really the plausible deniability that makes you think it's better to just not mention this?
#33
Old 12-19-2012, 08:08 AM
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Let's look at this from a perspective of priorities -

Which take priority? Wife or Friend? Sanctity of home or Friend?

I really don't see any question what the answers are.

Time to start thinking like an adult.
#34
Old 12-19-2012, 08:19 AM
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1) In your shoes, with Xmas coming, I'd find a reason to give him a gift wrapped package in front of friends and family. He'd open the package and find the panties. Let him explain.

2) And as an unrelated aside, I loved this episode:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seinfeld
"You mean, the panties your mother laid out for you?"
#35
Old 12-19-2012, 08:20 AM
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Tell your wife. She deserves to know what kind of perverts you hang around with for her own safety and sanity (and what this particular pervert did in her own house, with her own panties). I'm guessing she will want to throw out those panties, not keep on wearing them. Your friend was waaaaaaay over the line.
#36
Old 12-19-2012, 08:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by voltaire View Post
Eh, he's got plausible deniability. He didn't actually *see* him choking his chicken. He could have been mistaken about the garment on the floor.
"Plausible deniability" might work in a courtroom or international politics, but I doubt it'll impress a pissed off wife very much.

Me, I'd level with the wife. Not only does she have a right to know but from a practical perspective as others have said the husband is just setting himself up for a domestic disaster. Plus who knows what else he's doing rummaging through his & her stuff?
#37
Old 12-19-2012, 08:28 AM
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Der Trihs: Yup, now I'm wondering if those two have any sex toys stashed in their bedroom and not under lock and key...

And speaking as a woman and wife, not only would I want to know ASAP so at the very least I never touched that pair of undies again, I'd probably want to burn them. Preferably while pervy friend was wearing them.

Last edited by Ferret Herder; 12-19-2012 at 08:28 AM.
#38
Old 12-19-2012, 08:57 AM
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I understand that everyone has their peccadilloes, but when they can't control it and it involves a family member, even if it's indirectly, that's a deal breaker. I think the person is crossing a huge line. I say this proudly as a pervert in good standing. Tell your wife, and ask her if there's any chance she left the garments out.
#39
Old 12-19-2012, 08:59 AM
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The following is a devil advocate view and not the official viewpoint of Simple Linctus. Simple Linctus makes the following statement purely with the intention of provoking some thought in the OP:

Look at things from his point of view. If he is a utilitarian, he could easily come to the ethical conclusion that it was perfectly fine to sniff your wife's panties (which includes sniffing them while masturbating, but not masturbating with them) because no harm would be done to either your or your wife, but he would experience great pleasure. Thus it would be an ethical act - perhaps if taken to extremes a duty.

Of course this analysis would have been flawed for reasons made obvious in your OP - the chances of you or your wife were not non-zero and the harm done there is so much greater than the pleasure he would receive, almost any probability of him being discovered renders the act unethical.

But is it necessarily fair to punish someone for acting in good faith, if he really thought he was doing good*? Humans are notorious for underestimating risks.

P.S. You mention parents that are clearly demented when it comes to sex. We are all products of our upbringing and he could also .

*And the argument doesn't require him to have performed a formal ethical analysis. Simply reasoning "I will like this, and it will harm no one" - which I'm sure he did - could be enough.
#40
Old 12-19-2012, 09:13 AM
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If there's no legitimate reason for her underwear to be in the room, then ... there's no reason for it to be there. At that point I'm not sure the details of why it was there are important. The retrieval is the creepy part.
#41
Old 12-19-2012, 09:23 AM
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I strongly disagree with the view Simple Linctus has put forward.

He was using her property for sex. He needed to obtain her consent to use her property in that way. The fact that he did this shows his utter lack of respect for her or for boundaries. She is well within her rights to feel violated.

It was up to her, not him, to make the call that no harm would be done; for all any of us know, he could have been using them in a way that could have transmitted STDs.

Quote:
Look at things from his point of view. If he is a utilitarian, he could easily come to the ethical conclusion that it was perfectly fine to sniff your wife's panties (which includes sniffing them while masturbating, but not masturbating with them) because no harm would be done to either your or your wife, but he would experience great pleasure.
You do realize that for certain definitions of "harm," you could use this exact same reasoning to justify groping, or worse. It utterly disregards the fact that people have a fundamental right to decide how and when they and their things are used for sex.
#42
Old 12-19-2012, 09:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crime Scene View Post
...however, the room was cleaned before he came...
...and hopefully cleaned up afterwards. Ew.
#43
Old 12-19-2012, 09:31 AM
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Absolutely tell your wife. Your trust in this guy has been broken do you really want to do the same to her trust in you?
#44
Old 12-19-2012, 09:40 AM
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I have to go with the angry mob here.

Everyone is entitled to be a pervert in their own place and with consent of all involved. No-one is entitled to act out their perversions in another's house and using their stuff without their permission. That's crossing the line, and the harsh fact is that it may very well be that what gets this guy off is violating boundaries. He's proved he can't be trusted and you have no idea what other boundaries he's willing to violate to get off, so the only thing to do is to get rid of him and tell your wife.
#45
Old 12-19-2012, 09:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crime Scene View Post
This is my problem: If I tell my wife there is no middle ground or negotiating. He will flat not be allowed around anymore. She wouldn't tell me, "You can't hang out with him" or anything like that, but she is sure as hell would not want him here. So far, I'm just thinking of not leaving him here alone. I mean, if he went this far what is to say he isn't rummaging through our things while he is left here alone?
Then tell her. You don't want him there alone, she won't want him there at all - it seems like the solution to me.

I think she has a right to be involved in this decision. Although it may mean she feels violated herself.

(umm, what did you do with the undies? I'm guessing she'll be burning them...)
#46
Old 12-19-2012, 10:27 AM
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If I was the wife, I would definitely want to know. Then we could share an incredulous laugh.

Also you can see how she feels about it and the two of you can discuss it and decide how to proceed.
#47
Old 12-19-2012, 10:31 AM
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Unlike my previous post this is my genuine position: I think it's entirely up to Crime Scene to decide whether to tell the wife and we don't have enough information to say say whether he should one way or the other. It completely depends upon their relationship.

In a super-romanticised, lovey-dovey, no-secrets kind of "ideal marriage" then yes he should tell her.

Most relationships though, and frankly most marriages, are not like that. And as it almost certainly, practically speaking, will hurt her a whole lot to know this, it's very much up to C.S. to judge where the lofty principles intersect with the real situation "on the ground". Admittedly, I have not had a proper successful what I would define as long term (>2 years) relationship, so feel free to discount my advice on that basis, but it is still from observation of others' and also shorter ones (which presumably don't count as successful but not for this reason).

Other things to take into account include whether she will be the last to know - presumably not because others in this group of friends are going to eventually notice you ignoring this guy, and you will have to come up with a reason. If you or your wife are going to tell anyone else about this then I really think you need to give him a right of reply first. Similarly, if you pull out of his wedding you have to confront him about this and give him a right of reply.

The facts so far are, for example, consistent with the knickers being washed with the bed clothes, him going upstairs for a cheeky wank, him finding the knickers and chucking them on the floor, and you coming in at just the wrong time. They are also consistent with him just picking up any random thing from the laundry to wipe himself off. I am not saying either of these situations are plausible but they are possible. That would only be fair.

And if you don't pull out of the wedding you are going to have to let this go. Also, if you pull out of the wedding his fiance may find out.

One thing though - if you do ruin his social life and marriage, which is potentially a worst case scenario, it is still ultimately his fault, if that makes you feel better.


*A brief digression on it harming her - note that I don't want to say that this isn't my opinion or is my opinion - it's how I see things in a general sense but is not a reflection on this incident:

In a completely materialistic sense her being upset would not be a rational reaction, and you can see that even better when you consider the nature of the reaction. For example she will almost certainly want to way to throw the underwear away. This is objectively completely irrational - you can always clean them (and they were going to be cleaned anyway so it's not even extra washing).

The reason she would want to throw them away is because of sacred contagion.

And it's basically human brain misfiring that causes us to over value abstract principles in the first place, which is what trust (in this context, I am not talking about trust in general) is.
#48
Old 12-19-2012, 10:33 AM
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Why tell the wife? Ignorance is bliss.

Just phase him out of your life. I doubt the wife will mind that the kinda pervy/creepy guy from her childhood becomes less of a presence.

The perv is getting married soon too. Just swallow this one and chalk it up to bad parenting and move on. I don't get this need for unconditional disclosure.
#49
Old 12-19-2012, 10:43 AM
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I could be wrong, but in the wife's spot I don't think I'd even be hurt or upset about it. Creeped out, yes.
#50
Old 12-19-2012, 10:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pancakes3 View Post
Why tell the wife? Ignorance is bliss.

Just phase him out of your life. I doubt the wife will mind that the kinda pervy/creepy guy from her childhood becomes less of a presence.

The perv is getting married soon too. Just swallow this one and chalk it up to bad parenting and move on. I don't get this need for unconditional disclosure.
Quite aside from anything else, it's going to be difficult to explain to his wife why buddy isn't staying at his house anymore, indeed isn't welcome to - when that had been a regular occurance. It would require some lying and covering up to manage.

On top of that, should the matter of his habits be disclosed (not that unlikely, as he's obviously got an urge he likes to cater to), and his wife finds out that he knew about it and *didn't* tell her, she'd be very rightfully pissed.

Why should the OP lie and cover up, possibly risking his wife's anger and loss of trust? So that his wife isn't upset?
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