View Poll Results: Would you reroll the die if:
The die lands on the floor. 98 75.97%
The die hits another object while rolling. 6 4.65%
The die hits a player while rolling, long enough to affect the result. 34 26.36%
The die hits a player while rolling, not long enough to affect the result. 11 8.53%
The die doesnít land level, but one number is clearly on top. 41 31.78%
The die doesnít land level, no number is clearly on top.. 115 89.15%
An opponent isnít satisfied it was random. 13 10.08%
The player rolling isnít satisfied it was random. 6 4.65%
Something else should force a reroll. 18 13.95%
Never reroll. Ever. 8 6.20%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 129. You may not vote on this poll

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#1
Old 01-18-2013, 03:33 PM
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When would you reroll the dice in a board game?

A story I posted in the stupid arguments thread in MPSIMS got me thinking about an argument I had on this subject once and I'm curious what other people think.

Imagine that you're sitting at a table with two or more other people, playing a board game that involves rolling a standard-issue six-sided die. Under what circumstances should a roll be ignored and repeated? Also, if the game involved two dice, would you reroll both if one of the circumstances applied to one die but not both or would you leave the uncontested die alone?
#2
Old 01-18-2013, 03:36 PM
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Uncontested die are left alone; die are contested (and rerolled) if they are not fully horizontal when stopped or if they've rolled off the table. Note that if you're playing in a room with a rug or carpet, the die on the floor will not be fully horizontal; in many houses it is also pretty easy for an escaping die to roll under a piece of furniture, so that by the time you can read it you don't really know whether that was the original result (assuming the floor under the piece of furniture was flat). Better to make the rule "on the floor, reroll" than to open the door for rules lawyers trying to bring a level into play... (and is that level calibrated, hm?)

Last edited by Nava; 01-18-2013 at 03:39 PM.
#3
Old 01-18-2013, 03:37 PM
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The only time you should reroll dice is if the die doesn't land on a flat surface with a single face on top. Essentially, the roll always "counts" if you can read it. Don't pick up a die off the floor to reroll it unless the die doesn't land flat with a single face showing.

In the rare event a die should be rerolled, only reroll the ones without a clear result, NOT the whole group of dice.
#4
Old 01-18-2013, 03:37 PM
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I play a lot of board games, many of which involve dice.

The rule that most of my friends generally play with is that any time any of the dice 1) go off the table and land on the floor, or 2) land in a "cocked" position so that they're not perfectly flat on the table (say, one of them lands partially on/off a drink coaster), you reroll all dice.

That's what I would do, though. If someone else felt really strongly about only re-rolling the problem dice, that's cool. I'm also happy to accept a "cocked" throw -- yes, I giggle every time I use that term -- if the person who rolled the dice wants to keep it, but some people have strong opinions about this sort of thing. I'm a pretty easygoing gamer, though.
#5
Old 01-18-2013, 03:38 PM
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I usually tried to avoid that problem by using a dice rolling box. Dice in the box? Good. Dice out of box? Re-roll.

Dice that land fairly are not re-rolled.
#6
Old 01-18-2013, 03:42 PM
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Another option I forgot to add to the poll: If a player picks up the dice too quickly for everyone to read them, do you demand/ask for a reroll or take it on trust?
#7
Old 01-18-2013, 03:44 PM
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A re-roll is also called for when the dog swallows one of the dice.
#8
Old 01-18-2013, 03:47 PM
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I would demand a full reroll. There are some people I'd be extremely surprised to find cheating and others who seem incapable of not trying to - it's as if they're playing a different game, one of "let's see if I can cheat without anybody noticing". Forcing full rerolls for those cases discourages lying on rolls and IME people who were just overenthusiastic don't take offense.
#9
Old 01-18-2013, 03:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sicks Ate View Post
I usually tried to avoid that problem by using a dice rolling box. Dice in the box? Good. Dice out of box? Re-roll.

Dice that land fairly are not re-rolled.
This.
#10
Old 01-18-2013, 03:53 PM
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The only answer I find acceptable is if there is no number clearly on top. Otherwise, you play it as it lies.
#11
Old 01-18-2013, 04:05 PM
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In games like Champions, where you often roll many dice, if some dice end up cocked or on the floor, you can either reroll the cocked die/one(s) that landed on the floor, or re-roll ALL the dice. However, as GM I usually require players to state ahead of time whether they shall be re-rolling all the dice or just the offending ones, because I have seen the look of "wow, that's a really good roll, except for this one on the floor...", or, playing D&D, as they reach down to pick up the 20-sider, they say "Oh, hey, it's a 20. How about that?"
#12
Old 01-18-2013, 04:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tdn View Post
This.
Ah, I still remember my first improvised dice box fondly...it was the lid to my D&D Expert Set box.
#13
Old 01-18-2013, 04:14 PM
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All dice must land flat in a designated rolling area (box, area of table, whatever). Otherwise all are rerolled together.
#14
Old 01-18-2013, 04:42 PM
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The die lands on the floor: It calls into question what the number was, since typically only the person getting it sees what it was.

The die doesnít land level, no number is clearly on top: If the result is unknown it isn't valid.

Something else should force a reroll: Confusion about the rules (so the entire action is being performed again, dice and all), or on rare occasions the results violates the rule that "games should be fun" and they are re-rolled under the "that was stupid; screw the rules and roll them again" principle. These are rules from when I was a teen dungeon/gamemastering Dungeons and Dragons and similar games however; something of a special case.
#15
Old 01-18-2013, 04:50 PM
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The most important thing is that the rules on when to reroll are clear before any dice hit the table, they're consistent, and they're objective.

For example, some of my gaming group, including myself, will reroll any die that's even the slightest bit cocked. We reserve the right the sigh when we're rerolling results that were good for us. On the other hand, some of our group will never reroll a cocked die if the result is clear. A few players will let a roll stand if you can place another die on it without it sliding off. All that really matters is that you can't decide what the rules are after you've seen whether or not you like the result.
#16
Old 01-18-2013, 04:51 PM
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If the game rules specify what counts as a roll, then that.

Otherwise, roll with it. It's not like bouncing off someone's elbow makes it not random.
#17
Old 01-18-2013, 06:13 PM
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For the currently 13% who did not select The die doesn’t land level, no number is clearly on top., what do you propose instead of rerolling?
#18
Old 01-18-2013, 06:16 PM
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Side note: for people who wish to use unmarked Crystal dice, so that you have to pick them up to read them: I have crayons. You will use them to fill in the numbers. Failing that, I have extra dice you are welcome to borrow.
#19
Old 01-18-2013, 07:12 PM
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If the player was misinformed as to what he was supposed to be rolling for. For instance, if he thought he was supposed to roll high, but was actually supposed to roll low, and he rolled high, he gets to roll again. Or if he needed a six to win, but thought he needed a five, he gets to roll again - even if he rolled a two. It's very important that players be allowed to give their dice the proper psychic instructions.
#20
Old 01-18-2013, 08:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZenBeam View Post
For the currently 13% who did not select The die doesnít land level, no number is clearly on top., what do you propose instead of rerolling?
I almost checked only one box. Thus they might have thought one could only check one box, and some other example was more important.

I picked that one and on the floor.
#21
Old 01-18-2013, 10:16 PM
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Moving over to the Game Room.
#22
Old 01-18-2013, 11:36 PM
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If the move isn't level, will you re-move it?
#23
Old 01-19-2013, 12:06 AM
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I've played backgammon for money, and prefer to play with those who take games seriously even when there's no stake. Obviously "party" players will have a wholly different perspective.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chipacabra View Post
The most important thing is that the rules on when to reroll are clear before any dice hit the table ....
This. Any rules are plausible but must be agreed in advance.
My son and I play backgammon and have agreed that the dice must be level and can be anywhere on the board, its enclosure, or its checkers.

In serious backgammon play, the dice must land on the same designated "table" (half) of the board, normally the table at player's right. Permission may be requested before the roll, to cast them in the opposite table. (This request is frequent in the ending when the designated table may be full of checkers.)

When one die is cocked, all dice are rethrown.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Il Palazzo View Post
Another option I forgot to add to the poll: If a player picks up the dice too quickly for everyone to read them, do you demand/ask for a reroll or take it on trust?
Not only must you hesitate before picking up a legal throw, you must hesitate before picking up cocked dice so that other players can confirm the dice are cocked. The question "do you take it on trust" suggests Lord doesn't play strangers for money. The option "demand/ask for a reroll" shows severe misconception, for reasons left as an exercise.

ETA: I didn't vote in the poll; and despite the excessively precise and pedantic answers above, I admit the question "the die hits a player while rolling" has never arisen in my games, as far as I can remember!

Last edited by septimus; 01-19-2013 at 12:09 AM.
#24
Old 01-19-2013, 12:14 AM
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If it's a game, and there's no money riding on the outcome, or any other thing of value, and no your pride is not worth anything, then you re-roll any time it doesn't look like a clean roll. You don't get all worked up over it however it goes because it's just a game, and it will never be over with if you spend all your time arguing over whether or not to re-roll.

If it's a wager, all rolls count and you never re-roll unless everyone is in unanimous agreement that a re-roll is needed. Otherwise, even if the die is precariously balanced on a corner with three faces sharing the topmost position, you have to just sit and wait until it falls flat, even if that doesn't happen until the next earthquake.
#25
Old 01-19-2013, 01:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silenus View Post
A re-roll is also called for when the dog swallows one of the dice.
This why no one ever wants to play games with you: you're always in such a hurry!
#26
Old 01-19-2013, 02:57 AM
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Dice that don't land level are re-rolled. There is no point in re-rolling the others that were valid.

Dice that fall off the table are played as they lie unless the roller calls for a re-roll before a result is clear. Then only that die is re-rolled. I'm actually surprised anyone has ever played these scenarios differently.
#27
Old 01-19-2013, 06:12 AM
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Something else: when they get lost. Or when there's no way to look at the die without moving it. Or if the dice weren't actually rolled.* Otherwise the randomness is not affected.

*I guess that could be termed as either opponent or player not being satisfied that it's random, but it's really about whether the dice were dropped rather than rolled.

EDIT: Missed the one about there not being a number on top. Though I don't recall it ever happening. Dice don't tend to land crooked.

Last edited by BigT; 01-19-2013 at 06:14 AM.
#28
Old 01-19-2013, 02:02 PM
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I picked the two most common choices (floor and no clear top face), plus "other". The player rolling the dice can call "that doesn't count" due to any sort of interference, so long as the call is made before the dice come to rest.

As to re-rolling only a problematic die versus rerolling all dice, I have no strong preference one way or the other, so long as all rolls are made simultaneously, and the standard is agreed to before rolls. If they're not rolled simultaneously, then you only reroll the problematic die. Back when I was young, it was the established principle among some of my friends that you rolled 3d6 by rolling one at a time, and any mis-roll required re-rolling all three, which meant in practice that if the first two dice were anything other than a pair of 6s, the roller would always "accidentally" drop the third die on the floor.
#29
Old 01-19-2013, 02:09 PM
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It really depends on the board game. In Escape from the Curse of the Temple board game, if a die rolls off the table, it's lost from play.

Go 500 has a special rule if the dice land stacked on top of each other.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sicks Ate View Post
I usually tried to avoid that problem by using a dice rolling box. Dice in the box? Good. Dice out of box? Re-roll.
I bought a shadow box at Michael's and lined it with felt and use that as the dice tray. It's pretty smooth.

That said, if there aren't any rules about it, any die that flies off the table or lands cockeyed gets re-rolled. The other die/dice are static.
#30
Old 01-19-2013, 03:48 PM
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The most important thing that strikes me is if the die is unreadable unless picked up, e.g. knocked under the couch or something. Those ones are so easy to accidentally or deliberately misread. After that, if the dice isn't level, obviously you have to reroll it. After that, I don't care--we can reroll if anyone else wants to, but otherwise it's fine.
#31
Old 01-19-2013, 05:14 PM
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Why are you people playing games with people you can't trust?
#32
Old 01-19-2013, 08:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zsofia View Post
Why are you people playing games with people you can't trust?
That's what I'm thinking. I understand septimus's idea of playing for money, and sure, there need to be clear rules there. But I play games to blow off steam, to relax. If I think there's a decent chance someone's going to cheat, it's not going to be relaxing to play with them, so I won't. Also I try not to care enough about the game's outcome: if someone cheats, they're an asshole, but the game itself isn't that important. So in any circumstances, if I think I need to reroll, I'll check with the other players there ("It's on the floor, mind if I reroll?"), and if someone decides to reroll, I'll go along with it.

Last edited by Left Hand of Dorkness; 01-19-2013 at 08:34 PM.
#33
Old 01-19-2013, 08:53 PM
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I chose two, and they happened to be the two most popular. So, no major arguments in my world when playing a game with dice.

YAHTZEE!!!!
#34
Old 01-19-2013, 11:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Left Hand of Dorkness View Post
I understand septimus's idea of playing for money, and sure, there need to be clear rules there. But I play games to blow off steam, to relax.
Even with no money and full trust, ambiguous rules can lead to problems. Suppose I roll a slightly cocked good number, and tell my son the dice are cocked and I must roll again, but call his dice cocked only when they're bad. My son would realize I'm helping him win and he doesn't like that.

Of course, arguing whether dice are cocked or not might add a dimension of personality to the game that some players would enjoy.
#35
Old 01-20-2013, 01:45 AM
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In my house, re-roll ONLY if dice do not land in a position where there is a number clearly on top, or if some dice actually get lost during a roll (fall through a grate or under an immobile piece of furniture/appliance). No need for rules about interference or rolling off the table, or that it has to be perfectly level!

Last edited by drewtwo99; 01-20-2013 at 01:46 AM.
#36
Old 01-20-2013, 09:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by septimus View Post

Of course, arguing whether dice are cocked or not might add a dimension of personality to the game that some players would enjoy.
Our rule for that: if you can place another dice of the same size on the 'top' face, and it doesn't slide off, then the roll stands.

We have another rule that says if you roll the dice off the table three times in one game, you automatically lose. This rule was invented for one guy in particular who loves to give his dice a lot if energy.
#37
Old 01-20-2013, 09:59 AM
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Quote:
Of course, arguing whether dice are cocked or not might add a dimension of personality to the game that some players would enjoy.
Our rule for that: if you can place another dice of the same size on the 'top' face, and it doesn't slide off, then the roll stands.
So, rolls of a d4 are always invalid, then?
#38
Old 01-20-2013, 10:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chronos View Post
So, rolls of a d4 are always invalid, then?
D4s are never cocked, so the rule doesn't apply.
#39
Old 01-20-2013, 10:17 AM
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Well, rarely. I guess I've never had to deal withthat .
#40
Old 01-21-2013, 11:33 AM
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We usually use a box so that the dice are contained. Any dice that pop out of the box are re-rolled.

Also, if a player drops the dice in the box so that they don't tumble, they are re-rolled.
#41
Old 01-22-2013, 11:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MsWhatsit View Post
I play a lot of board games, many of which involve dice.

The rule that most of my friends generally play with is that any time any of the dice 1) go off the table and land on the floor, or 2) land in a "cocked" position so that they're not perfectly flat on the table (say, one of them lands partially on/off a drink coaster), you reroll all dice.

That's what I would do, though. If someone else felt really strongly about only re-rolling the problem dice, that's cool. I'm also happy to accept a "cocked" throw -- yes, I giggle every time I use that term -- if the person who rolled the dice wants to keep it, but some people have strong opinions about this sort of thing. I'm a pretty easygoing gamer, though.
Exactly the rules my gaming group uses, including tittering (hee hee) at the word "cocked" every time. I've gamed with a lot of people and that is almost universal. Anything that doesn't result in all the dice being flat and on the table gets a full reroll, except for a few games that involve rolling a handfull of dice. Then we will reroll singles that are bad.
#42
Old 01-23-2013, 09:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chipacabra View Post
The most important thing is that the rules on when to reroll are clear before any dice hit the table, they're consistent, and they're objective.

For example, some of my gaming group, including myself, will reroll any die that's even the slightest bit cocked. We reserve the right the sigh when we're rerolling results that were good for us. On the other hand, some of our group will never reroll a cocked die if the result is clear. A few players will let a roll stand if you can place another die on it without it sliding off. All that really matters is that you can't decide what the rules are after you've seen whether or not you like the result.
Agreed, although I'll usually go farther and "spot" a player the first one. I don't much care what a player's criteria are for re-rolling, as long as those criteria are used for all subsequent rolls. It's when people reroll sometimes but other times "take" the number that my BS meter pings.

As far as why one might play with people tempted to "cheat" -- this seems like a common behavior in kids. I'd say most of the very young folks I play with -- including relatives of adults in the game -- don't mean to cheat, but find it way too tempting to be iffy with the dice. "Setting them down" showing the desired number, carefully trying to flip them one revolution, "calling" a die before picking it up really fast, and the old favorite, rolling one die at a time and deliberately striking a bad die with the next one rolled to re-roll it, all seem to be irresistible at a certain age. Just this past weekend I played Monopoly with my brother's family, and the youngest kid went through several of these methods. What's funny is he never looked at the board before rolling, so I don't think he was aiming for a specific die roll; he just wanted to exert some sort of control over the dice. Fortunately, his older brother, whom he idolizes, kept on him about rolling cleanly, without it becoming a fight, so one hopes he'll learn.

Dice aside, one thing that drives me nuts in games is when one player makes a series of complex, subtle hand passes through the deck, the money, or the victory point supplies, and subsequently wins big. Or "makes change" through a series of complex exchanges. Or rapidly totals his points silently, dumps everything into the box (rendering it difficult or impossible to doublecheck), and then waits until everyone else announces their total before announcing his own, which (amazingly) wins! These people might be totally honest, sure. But it's hard to take that at face value when sleight-of-hand is involved. I've definitely seen some dodgy behavior from certain players...sometimes people I can't avoid socially, as they come to the same parties.

Plus it's just less interesting if I don't get to see how other people play (or can't decipher their high-speed mystic passes and muttering).

Show your work applies in social games, not just grade-school math!
#43
Old 01-23-2013, 10:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alessan View Post
If the player was misinformed as to what he was supposed to be rolling for. For instance, if he thought he was supposed to roll high, but was actually supposed to roll low, and he rolled high, he gets to roll again. Or if he needed a six to win, but thought he needed a five, he gets to roll again - even if he rolled a two. It's very important that players be allowed to give their dice the proper psychic instructions.
Pffft, you don't know what the hell you're talking about. It's not about psychic instructions or any such woo. It's about professionals picking the right tool to fit the specific requirements of the job at hand - the one that has expended most of its ones already for a high roll, the ones that you still owe a couple nat 20s to for low rolls.
#44
Old 01-23-2013, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silenus View Post
A re-roll is also called for when the dog swallows one of the dice.
Nah. Give the dog an emetic or an enema and (eventually) play it as it lies. Alternatively, you can X-ray the dog's stomach.
#45
Old 01-23-2013, 11:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Il Palazzo View Post
Another option I forgot to add to the poll: If a player picks up the dice too quickly for everyone to read them, do you demand/ask for a reroll or take it on trust?
That's why there's rebar.
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