Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
#1
Old 03-18-2013, 01:03 AM
Guest
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 196
Will FIAT Really lease me a new car for $99/mo?

Really? Will it have tires? How can they do that?
#2
Old 03-18-2013, 01:38 AM
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Randleman, NC
Posts: 1,375
Need more information.

How much money down?
How long is the lease?
How many miles are allowed and what's the charge for miles over that?
What credit rating is needed to qualify?
#3
Old 03-18-2013, 07:49 AM
Charter Member
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Again, Titletown
Posts: 20,109
There are lots of ads for $99/month Fiat 500 leases. They're trying to move the cars and there are a few gotchas but they're trying to move an unpopular car. You'll have to contact the individual dealers to find out what the details are since that's the key to any lease.
#4
Old 03-18-2013, 08:09 AM
Guest
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Midlands, UK
Posts: 3,141
From http://capitolfiat.com

2013 Fiat 500 Pop

24 month lease at $99/month plus tax.

$3,499 due at signing, and up to 10,000 miles per year (20c/mile after that).

So yeah, you can lease one for that price but it's a reasonable initial cash payment.
#5
Old 03-18-2013, 09:09 AM
Guest
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Iowa
Posts: 589
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wallenstein View Post
From http://capitolfiat.com

2013 Fiat 500 Pop

24 month lease at $99/month plus tax.

$3,499 due at signing, and up to 10,000 miles per year (20c/mile after that).

So yeah, you can lease one for that price but it's a reasonable initial cash payment.
Do you maybe mean UNreasonable??
#6
Old 03-18-2013, 09:10 AM
Guest
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Telemark View Post
There are lots of ads for $99/month Fiat 500 leases. They're trying to move the cars and there are a few gotchas but they're trying to move an unpopular car. You'll have to contact the individual dealers to find out what the details are since that's the key to any lease.
They are unpopular? I see them everywhere! Is that just the result of the low pricing?
#7
Old 03-18-2013, 09:14 AM
Guest
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: NY/NJ, USA
Posts: 5,071
Quote:
Originally Posted by Qwakkeddup View Post
Do you maybe mean UNreasonable??
Agreed. Most people who are enticed by the $99 figure are unlikely to be able to come up with the $3499. Makes me wonder who the ads are targeting.
#8
Old 03-18-2013, 09:18 AM
Member
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: mid-Pacific
Posts: 2,453
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wallenstein View Post
From http://capitolfiat.com

2013 Fiat 500 Pop

24 month lease at $99/month plus tax.

$3,499 due at signing, and up to 10,000 miles per year (20c/mile after that).

So yeah, you can lease one for that price but it's a reasonable initial cash payment.
That would be killer on Oahu, Hawaii. You'd never get to the mileage/year and the car would actually fit in the tiny parking spaces there.
#9
Old 03-18-2013, 10:07 AM
Guest
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Midlands, UK
Posts: 3,141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Qwakkeddup View Post
Do you maybe mean UNreasonable??
Sorry, by "reasonable" I meant "considerable". Typical british understatement, I guess!
#10
Old 03-18-2013, 10:12 AM
Charter Member
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Again, Titletown
Posts: 20,109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiveyearlurker View Post
They are unpopular? I see them everywhere! Is that just the result of the low pricing?
They stand out because they are distinctive and you notice them. But as far as I can tell sales have been OK but not living up to projections. There's only so much of a market for tiny cars in the US. Having said that, sales are increasing but perhaps it's to deals like the $99/month lease.
#11
Old 03-18-2013, 10:18 AM
Guest
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 67,149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiveyearlurker View Post
They are unpopular? I see them everywhere! Is that just the result of the low pricing?
The Abarth version has been massively popular, but the base 500 isn't selling quite as well as expected.
#12
Old 03-18-2013, 10:24 AM
Suspended
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 18,476
I think the Fiat 500 is an example of a car with a very limited market-once the people who liked them buy, there is very little interest outside that group. These low rate leases are pretty dangerous-you have to read the fine print about what the "residual value" is (at the end of the lease. Basically, if the dealer/leasor cannot sell it for the residual, you have to pay the difference. I don't know what used Fiat 500 cars go for, but my guess is that they are very difficult to resell. Plus, even though these cars are very small, they do not deliver exceptional gas mileage. So the value of a used one is iffy.
#13
Old 03-18-2013, 10:34 AM
Guest
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Montana
Posts: 4,965
Attractive leases are often a good way to get people into cars with suspect reliabilty records, since you never get out of warranty and you don't have to worry about long-term reliabilty past your lease term. VW pushed the super-cheap leases during their darkest days in the late-90's/early-2000's, as did Hyundai during the early stages of their US resurgance. Fiat is definitely in the "dubious reliability" category based on the notoriety of their earlier attempts at the US market alone, regardless of what the long term reliabilty of their new products turns out to be.
#14
Old 03-18-2013, 12:17 PM
Charter Member
Join Date: Apr 1999
Posts: 22,333
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wallenstein View Post
From http://capitolfiat.com

2013 Fiat 500 Pop

24 month lease at $99/month plus tax.

$3,499 due at signing, and up to 10,000 miles per year (20c/mile after that).

So yeah, you can lease one for that price but it's a reasonable initial cash payment.
The offer also stipulates "Available with approved credit." So you'll need a good, maybe even a very good credit score to qualify.
#15
Old 03-18-2013, 12:51 PM
Charter Member
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: San Jose
Posts: 34,103
Hey how about $1 a year?


24 month lease at $1/month plus tax.

$6000 due at signing, and up to 10,000 miles per year (20c/mile after that).
#16
Old 03-18-2013, 01:59 PM
Guest
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Florida
Posts: 6,060
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph124c View Post
I think the Fiat 500 is an example of a car with a very limited market-once the people who liked them buy, there is very little interest outside that group. These low rate leases are pretty dangerous-you have to read the fine print about what the "residual value" is (at the end of the lease. Basically, if the dealer/leasor cannot sell it for the residual, you have to pay the difference. I don't know what used Fiat 500 cars go for, but my guess is that they are very difficult to resell. Plus, even though these cars are very small, they do not deliver exceptional gas mileage. So the value of a used one is iffy.
I own a 500. While I have not attempted to sell it yet, I'm not sure I can agree with your last statement there. I took my 500 on a 2,600 mile road trip last year and got 40mpg on that trip. It cost me less than half the cost of a plane ticket to drive to where I was going and back. That's no more exceptional than any other low-horsepower, 4-cylinder, gas-powered shitbox out there right now, and a bit better than many. (Cannot compete with a hybrid or electric.)

I think one of the hindrances to the Fiat's popularity is simple: There are few Fiat dealerships and they are far between. Right now, I have to drive about 200 miles one way for an oil change. For my car, I got three years of free maintenance with the price of the car, so my next stop in will include tire rotation, fluids, air filter, oil change and probably some other stuff. I called around local mechanics in town and nobody will touch it. I popped the hood for my (now former) mechanic and they just laughed. "How the hell do you do anything to this car?" And that's why everyone takes their Fiat to the dealer for work and that's why people who would consider trading in their Mini or Honda Fit fall right out of love with the car.

Had I realized what a colossal pain in my ass it would be to drive 400 miles every time I need an oil change, I would not have bought this car from my friend. I needed a new car and she needed to sell her Fiat, so I just made life easy and snagged her car off her. I now regret the decision, but not because I don't love the car. The car is great. I just don't want to take a day off work and drive 400 miles every time something breaks. Also: I've had this car one year now (It's 2012) and nothing has broken.

I take issue with the idea that the car isn't popular though. Just an hour ago, I was stopped in the Taco Bell parking lot while people pelted me with questions about my car. This happens about 2-3 times a week. If they can't stop me for a conversation, I will see them turning their heads to check out the car. One guy rolled the windows down while driving next to me at 40 mph just to tell me "Cute car!" (I am not young and hot; it wasn't me. ) Based on the reactions to the impromptu interrogations I've allowed myself to be subjected to, I'd say the biggest hangup is lack of dealers. When there is one next to every Honda dealer in every town, Fiat will stand a better chance. The next biggest hangup is that the pricing might have to come down a bit because I think for comparable vehicles, you pay a little more for styling. Depending on what you want, a Mini or a Fit might be a better buy.

Last edited by Dogzilla; 03-18-2013 at 02:02 PM.
#17
Old 03-18-2013, 02:02 PM
Guest
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Ohio
Posts: 436
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph124c View Post
I think the Fiat 500 is an example of a car with a very limited market-once the people who liked them buy, there is very little interest outside that group. These low rate leases are pretty dangerous-you have to read the fine print about what the "residual value" is (at the end of the lease. Basically, if the dealer/leasor cannot sell it for the residual, you have to pay the difference. I don't know what used Fiat 500 cars go for, but my guess is that they are very difficult to resell. Plus, even though these cars are very small, they do not deliver exceptional gas mileage. So the value of a used one is iffy.
For the bolded part- Is this a new thing? I have a friend in the insurance business. His company has written a lot of residual value insurance (and lost their asses on SAABs). I hadn't heard of the car companies trying to foist this onto the consumer directly.
#18
Old 03-18-2013, 02:08 PM
Guest
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Montana
Posts: 4,965
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dogzilla View Post
When there is one next to every Honda dealer in every town, Fiat will stand a better chance.
That should become far less of an issue as Chrysler and Fiat become more integrated.
#19
Old 03-18-2013, 02:11 PM
Guest
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: F.O.S.O.N.E.
Posts: 19,903
Leases are a good vehicle option for about 1 in 50 'buyers.' Unless the overall deal is just crazy-outstanding, or unless the terms of the lease fit you very, very comfortably, they're a bad choice.

They are good 100% of the time for dealers.
#20
Old 03-18-2013, 02:32 PM
Charter Member
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: San Francisco area
Posts: 16,104
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreasyJack
Fiat is definitely in the "dubious reliability" category based on the notoriety of their earlier attempts at the US market alone, regardless of what the long term reliabilty of their new products turns out to be.
The old joke is that the name is an acronym of Fix It Again, Tony!

Hopefully, the current models don't use any electrical components made by Lucas (the Prince of Darkness).
#21
Old 03-18-2013, 02:38 PM
Guest
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Florida
Posts: 6,060
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreasyJack View Post
That should become far less of an issue as Chrysler and Fiat become more integrated.
I would think so as well. I even called the Chrysler dealer and asked if they'll take my car to work on it. Hell no was the answer. So I'm a tad surprised that Chrysler dealers aren't jumping over themselves to expand to become Chrysler Fiat dealers. Go figure.

I have noticed that the Fiat dealers are called "studios" -- you will be giving grave insult if you call them a dealership while you are in there. There's a lot of amenities inside these "studios" and they always seem to be in a high-end part of town, next to the pricey mall with the Saks Fifth Avenue in it. They are never just a corner of the Toyota lot, down the street from The Dollar Store. I think Fiat seems to intend to position this car as a luxury compact, like it's the BMW of shitboxes. Thing is, people who are looking to buy a shitbox are typically counting every penny and are not about spending an extra 10-20% for style and/or status.

Last edited by Dogzilla; 03-18-2013 at 02:39 PM.
#22
Old 03-18-2013, 02:58 PM
Guest
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,230
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dogzilla View Post
I think one of the hindrances to the Fiat's popularity is simple: There are few Fiat dealerships and they are far between. Right now, I have to drive about 200 miles one way for an oil change. For my car, I got three years of free maintenance with the price of the car, so my next stop in will include tire rotation, fluids, air filter, oil change and probably some other stuff. I called around local mechanics in town and nobody will touch it. I popped the hood for my (now former) mechanic and they just laughed. "How the hell do you do anything to this car?" And that's why everyone takes their Fiat to the dealer for work and that's why people who would consider trading in their Mini or Honda Fit fall right out of love with the car.
I bought one new off the lot back in 2011. While the service plan is included, you can opt out for a discount because they realize some people are far enough from a dealer to make it a hassle. However, they flipped a bit when I took that option, and said I was the first customer to do so. They weren't even that bad - the dealer was like 25 miles away in the 'burbs. (Chicago proper now has a dealership.)

As for resale - it wasn't bad. I traded mine last year for a Boxster S and got $14.5k; I'd spent $17k for it the year before (500 Sport). I'd like an Abarth and might trade my Mini Cooper S for a used one when prices drop a bit (say, as much as a new 500 Turbo). Very fun car, and I liked the Fiat's ergonomics more than my Mini.

I also had a Smart Fortwo a while back and while I got decent trade on it, the dealer couldn't sell it for a year. Those, I think, have reached saturation.
#23
Old 03-18-2013, 03:00 PM
Guest
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Dairyland 'burbs
Posts: 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dogzilla View Post
I own a 500.
I take issue with the idea that the car isn't popular though. Just an hour ago, I was stopped in the Taco Bell parking lot while people pelted me with questions about my car. This happens about 2-3 times a week.
Your post proves how uncommon (aka unpopular) the car is.
#24
Old 03-18-2013, 03:33 PM
Guest
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: on your last raw nerve
Posts: 17,831
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreasyJack View Post
Fiat is definitely in the "dubious reliability" category based on the notoriety of their earlier attempts at the US market alone, .
Bah! A myth, perpetuated by people who never owned them, and do not posess the skills to work on them.


Quote:
Originally Posted by gotpasswords View Post
The old joke is that the name is an acronym of Fix It Again, Tony!

Hopefully, the current models don't use any electrical components made by Lucas (the Prince of Darkness).
The problem was with "Tony" not fixing/understanding the problem the first time. To the best of my knowledge, Fiat uses Veglia and Magnetti Marelli electrics. Not perfect, but sure as hell better than Lucas!

I've owned/driven a Fiat for 25 years now. Fantastic car.

Last edited by Gatopescado; 03-18-2013 at 03:35 PM. Reason: Well, this has nothing to do with the thread. I guess I'm done now.
#25
Old 03-18-2013, 03:45 PM
Guest
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Florida
Posts: 6,060
Gatopescado, most of the parts inside my 2012 Fiat are Mopar/Chrysler (I dunno about the electronics). It's no longer your Uncle Tony's Olde World Eye-talian Fiat. Your 25-year-old Fiat is a totally different car than mine (I think), which was built in Mexico.
#26
Old 03-18-2013, 03:46 PM
Guest
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Montana
Posts: 4,965
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatopescado View Post
Bah! A myth, perpetuated by people who never owned them, and do not posess the skills to work on them.
The impressions I get is that they weren't nearly as bad as the British roadsters they were competing with in terms of mechanical reliabilty, but man-oh-man the rust. Cars not surviving many Minneapolis winters in those days was to be expected, but those things had trouble surviving Miami winters.
#27
Old 03-18-2013, 03:54 PM
Guest
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Suburbs of Detroit, MI
Posts: 9,859
Quote:
Originally Posted by NitroPress View Post
Leases are a good vehicle option for about 1 in 50 'buyers.' Unless the overall deal is just crazy-outstanding, or unless the terms of the lease fit you very, very comfortably, they're a bad choice.

They are good 100% of the time for dealers.
Leases are only a good deal for people who don't drive much. God help you if you exceed the mileage limits; those per-mile fees get really painful, really quickly.
#28
Old 03-18-2013, 04:11 PM
Member
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Alabama
Posts: 13,957
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreasyJack View Post
Fiat is definitely in the "dubious reliability" category based on the notoriety of their earlier attempts at the US market alone...
Probably more based on the reputation of Chrysler, who manufactures the Fiat cars sold in the US.
#29
Old 03-18-2013, 04:18 PM
Suspended
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 18,476
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dogzilla View Post
I own a 500. While I have not attempted to sell it yet, I'm not sure I can agree with your last statement there. I took my 500 on a 2,600 mile road trip last year and got 40mpg on that trip. It cost me less than half the cost of a plane ticket to drive to where I was going and back. That's no more exceptional than any other low-horsepower, 4-cylinder, gas-powered shitbox out there right now, and a bit better than many. (Cannot compete with a hybrid or electric.)

I think one of the hindrances to the Fiat's popularity is simple: There are few Fiat dealerships and they are far between. Right now, I have to drive about 200 miles one way for an oil change. For my car, I got three years of free maintenance with the price of the car, so my next stop in will include tire rotation, fluids, air filter, oil change and probably some other stuff. I called around local mechanics in town and nobody will touch it. I popped the hood for my (now former) mechanic and they just laughed. "How the hell do you do anything to this car?" And that's why everyone takes their Fiat to the dealer for work and that's why people who would consider trading in their Mini or Honda Fit fall right out of love with the car.

Had I realized what a colossal pain in my ass it would be to drive 400 miles every time I need an oil change, I would not have bought this car from my friend. I needed a new car and she needed to sell her Fiat, so I just made life easy and snagged her car off her. I now regret the decision, but not because I don't love the car. The car is great. I just don't want to take a day off work and drive 400 miles every time something breaks. Also: I've had this car one year now (It's 2012) and nothing has broken.

I take issue with the idea that the car isn't popular though. Just an hour ago, I was stopped in the Taco Bell parking lot while people pelted me with questions about my car. This happens about 2-3 times a week. If they can't stop me for a conversation, I will see them turning their heads to check out the car. One guy rolled the windows down while driving next to me at 40 mph just to tell me "Cute car!" (I am not young and hot; it wasn't me. ) Based on the reactions to the impromptu interrogations I've allowed myself to be subjected to, I'd say the biggest hangup is lack of dealers. When there is one next to every Honda dealer in every town, Fiat will stand a better chance. The next biggest hangup is that the pricing might have to come down a bit because I think for comparable vehicles, you pay a little more for styling. Depending on what you want, a Mini or a Fit might be a better buy.
Hey, my Saturn SL got 45 MPG..and it had a useable trunk and rear seats. Your "mechanic" cannot do an oil change on your car? I'd be looking for another mechanic.
#30
Old 03-18-2013, 05:46 PM
Guest
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 196
Oddly the downpayment last night in Riverside CA was $999, $99 mo/24 mo/.020 mile over but today the down is $1999. Buy price for a stripped 2013 is $12999. Dealers are everywhere in L.A. so that's a non-issue and it can't be any more of a pain in the ass to work on than a turbo Mini.

I'll take her down to drive one.
#31
Old 03-18-2013, 05:52 PM
Guest
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: F.O.S.O.N.E.
Posts: 19,903
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph124c View Post
Your "mechanic" cannot do an oil change on your car? I'd be
looking for another mechanic.
You're used to the high similarity of US, Japanese and common European cars, which share automotive DNA.

Many European cars of many vintages with "different DNA" will baffle mechanics who do not have specific experience with the marque. French cars of the 1950s-70s were infamous for having really bizarre service needs and techniques.IIRC, one of the Citroen models required a front hub nut to be torqued to 1,000 foot pounds; the Caravelle required a brace bar to be put in place when jacking it up, to keep it from bending, and one required something like removing the carburetor to drain the cooling system.

That said, any modern mechanic should have or be able to lay hands on service materials for any current car... they just may not want to.

Google around on "Fiat 500 oil change" and you'll see it's not a trivial issue. ETA: Here. 11 simple steps and a whole thread full of corrections.

Last edited by Amateur Barbarian; 03-18-2013 at 05:57 PM.
#32
Old 03-18-2013, 10:06 PM
Guest
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: on your last raw nerve
Posts: 17,831
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dogzilla View Post
Your 25-year-old Fiat is a totally different car than mine (I think), which was built in Mexico.
Its 33. My dad owned it the first 8 years!

Quote:
Originally Posted by GreasyJack View Post
.... but those things had trouble surviving Miami winters.
Maybe this will make my rust-free Nevada car worth more! The only salt concentrations around here are on Margarita glasses.
#33
Old 03-18-2013, 10:18 PM
Guest
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 67,149
Quote:
Originally Posted by scr4 View Post
Probably more based on the reputation of Chrysler, who manufactures the Fiat cars sold in the US.
I doubt most prospective customers know that Chrysler is building US-market 500s. It's not like Fiat is a byword for quality anywhere else, in any event.
#34
Old 03-18-2013, 10:43 PM
Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Land of Cheese Coneys
Posts: 16,205
That car looks like a VW bug and a Smart car had buttsexx....
#35
Old 03-18-2013, 10:56 PM
Guest
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,979
10,000 miles isn't very many, isn't 12,000 a norm in the US, and quite a few people have difficulty with that. If you drive
#36
Old 03-19-2013, 08:17 AM
Suspended
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 18,476
Quote:
Originally Posted by NitroPress View Post
You're used to the high similarity of US, Japanese and common European cars, which share automotive DNA.

Many European cars of many vintages with "different DNA" will baffle mechanics who do not have specific experience with the marque. French cars of the 1950s-70s were infamous for having really bizarre service needs and techniques.IIRC, one of the Citroen models required a front hub nut to be torqued to 1,000 foot pounds; the Caravelle required a brace bar to be put in place when jacking it up, to keep it from bending, and one required something like removing the carburetor to drain the cooling system.

That said, any modern mechanic should have or be able to lay hands on service materials for any current car... they just may not want to.

Google around on "Fiat 500 oil change" and you'll see it's not a trivial issue. ETA: Here. 11 simple steps and a whole thread full of corrections.
Man-you are not kidding! This has to be a 1 hour job at least! Whoever designed this location should be shot.
#37
Old 03-19-2013, 10:01 AM
Guest
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: F.O.S.O.N.E.
Posts: 19,903
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph124c View Post
Man-you are not kidding! This has to be a 1 hour job at least! Whoever designed this location should be shot.
Not really. You can design a car to perform optimally or you can make it easy to service. From reading the instructions, it looks like the parts that have to be removed are for under car air flow and others are optimally routed given the tiny chassis. Rearranging all that to make it easy to service in five minutes is counterproductive. The car is "driven" every mile for 100,000 miles or more; making it best at that, rather than less optimal in favor of a twice-yearly service procedure, is the kind of tradeoff we will start seeing more and more.
#38
Old 03-19-2013, 10:14 AM
Guest
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Florida
Posts: 6,060
Quote:
Originally Posted by FoieGrasIsEvil View Post
That car looks like a VW bug and a Smart car had buttsexx....
:: snerk ::

I think it looks like an Easter Egg.
#39
Old 03-19-2013, 10:41 AM
Guest
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Location: Location:
Posts: 10,482
This is the time of year ads for 3000+ down and tiny monthly payments really have a return on the advertising investments auto makers shell out.

People get an income tax refund, which they believe is found money (it's really their tax overpayment from them not doing math or understand taxes), and they plunk it down on a lease down payment.
#40
Old 03-19-2013, 11:21 AM
Guest
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: 7-Eleven
Posts: 6,117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philster View Post
People get an income tax refund, which they believe is found money (it's really their tax overpayment from them not doing math or understand taxes),...
This is a ridiculous statement, why include it?

I haven't met a single person that fits in to this category.

Everyone I know is fully aware of how the system works and why they are getting a refund, and it rarely has anything to do with lack of math skills.
#41
Old 03-19-2013, 11:29 AM
Suspended
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 18,476
Quote:
Originally Posted by NitroPress View Post
Not really. You can design a car to perform optimally or you can make it easy to service. From reading the instructions, it looks like the parts that have to be removed are for under car air flow and others are optimally routed given the tiny chassis. Rearranging all that to make it easy to service in five minutes is counterproductive. The car is "driven" every mile for 100,000 miles or more; making it best at that, rather than less optimal in favor of a twice-yearly service procedure, is the kind of tradeoff we will start seeing more and more.
Makes me appreciate my old AMC Concord-you could reach the oil drain plus and oil filter from the top of the engine! An oil change was a snap-you just slid the oil catch basin under the car, and opened the drain plug with a 9/16" wrench. I could do it in 5 minutes, tops. And I could rebuild the carburator for all of $12 in parts (it was a about a 2 hour job). THAT was a well designed car!
#42
Old 03-19-2013, 01:48 PM
Guest
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Virginia
Posts: 12,097
I'd rather have a Fiat 500 than a Smart ForTwo. Better mileage too.

"24 month lease at $99/month plus tax.
$3,499 due at signing, and up to 10,000 miles per year (20c/mile after that)."

I would have a problem with the 10,000 miles per year and $3,499 up front. Why in the world would I pay you that sort of money to rent a car?
#43
Old 03-19-2013, 02:03 PM
Guest
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: F.O.S.O.N.E.
Posts: 19,903
Quote:
Originally Posted by control-z View Post
I would have a problem with the 10,000 miles per year and $3,499 up front. Why in the world would I pay you that sort of money to rent a car?
Because you fell for the pitch - mainly that absurdly low monthly payment. You sometimes see luxury cars - Mercedes E and S, BMW 5 and 7 series, top-end Jags, even Maserati and other exotics - offered for monthly payments about equal to a standard loan on a $30k car.

Leases were first a quick way to move cars into ordinary consumer hands when prices and loan terms went through the roof in the 1970s - many people who could not qualify for a loan could drive away in an overpriced lease instead. As long as businesses can write off the "rental" amount, it's a good deal for them, which is why business vehicles are quite often leased. But for individuals, leases completely suck. Then dealers latched on to the enormous profit potentials, and here we are.

First of all, your initial payment represents whopping profit to the dealer, often higher than it would be on an equivalent sale. The dealer is contented the minute you drive off the lot. You, on the other hand, have every responsibility of ownership and every downside of renting for the next 3-5 years and 10-12k per year miles. You are bound to maintain the vehicle in good condition and drive a very limited number of miles, or pay whopping depreciation and mileage penalties at the end. You also may be bound to maintaining higher/more costly insurance for the duration, to protect the lease owner's interests.

The dealer wins again at the end - if you trade in or walk away from the lease, he gets a clean, good-condition, low-mileage, late-model used car to sell, and the profit on that second sale can be enormous. And you have absolutely nothing, not even a paid-for car.

Never lease a private vehicle. Ever. Not unless paying more (overall) to get a strictly and stringently limited return is some kind of bargain to you. Buy a car within your price range instead - modest credit and a 25-50% down payment (the money you had to plonk down on the lease) will get you quite a ways. Especially when looking at good lease-return vehicles...

Last edited by Amateur Barbarian; 03-19-2013 at 02:06 PM.
#44
Old 03-20-2013, 12:31 PM
Guest
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Suburbs of Detroit, MI
Posts: 9,859
Quote:
Originally Posted by NitroPress View Post
The dealer wins again at the end - if you trade in or walk away from the lease, he gets a clean, good-condition, low-mileage, late-model used car to sell, and the profit on that second sale can be enormous. And you have absolutely nothing, not even a paid-for car.
Another point is, quality these days is light-years beyond what it was few decades ago. Any car from a major manufacturer should last at least 10 years without any major issues. 15-20 years is not an uncommon lifespan for a recent-model car. If you bought the car, you get to enjoy it without having to make payments for years.
#45
Old 03-21-2013, 02:30 AM
Guest
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: on your last raw nerve
Posts: 17,831
Quote:
Originally Posted by Really Not All That Bright View Post
It's not like Fiat is a byword for quality anywhere else, in any event.
Except all over the world. But not in the US, where we think the Corvette is the epitome of engeneering. Good thing plastic don't rust........

Last edited by Gatopescado; 03-21-2013 at 02:34 AM. Reason: They shake to pieces before they can ever rust
#46
Old 03-21-2013, 02:57 AM
Guest
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Medford, MA
Posts: 21,430
Quote:
Originally Posted by NitroPress View Post
Many European cars of many vintages with "different DNA" will baffle mechanics who do not have specific experience with the marque. French cars of the 1950s-70s were infamous for having really bizarre service needs and techniques.IIRC, one of the Citroen models required a front hub nut to be torqued to 1,000 foot pounds; the Caravelle required a brace bar to be put in place when jacking it up, to keep it from bending, and one required something like removing the carburetor to drain the cooling system.
I knew a guy with a Citroen DS. He was showing me how easy it was to work on; opened the hood, reached way down beside the engine, *click*, *click*, and came back up with the brake pads.
#47
Old 03-21-2013, 09:27 AM
Guest
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: F.O.S.O.N.E.
Posts: 19,903
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatopescado View Post
Except all over the world. But not in the US, where we think the Corvette is the epitome of engeneering.
The Vette is a specialty vehicle, and assuming it will fart around like a Celebrity is probably mistake number one. But I'd say that a ~$60k vehicle that can run mid-pack or better with anything the exotic makers can throw in the fray (even at ten to twenty times the price), and a ~$100k version that can outrun most of them, and still get 19 MPG and be serviced by the shop in town, is an epitome of something.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robot Arm View Post
I knew a guy with a Citroen DS. He was showing me how easy it was to work on; opened the hood, reached way down beside the engine, *click*, *click*, and came back up with the brake pads.
You're saying that like it's a good thing.

Most cars have one or another feature like that. I know too much about French cars to give one trick much weight against their peculiarities...
#48
Old 03-21-2013, 09:40 AM
Guest
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: CentralArkansas
Posts: 22,576
should be $2376 plus tax. At least thats what the ad implies at 99 times 24.

So theres $1123 in sales taxes and hidden fees? Taxes should be about 8% of 2376 or $190

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wallenstein View Post
From http://capitolfiat.com

2013 Fiat 500 Pop

24 month lease at $99/month plus tax.

$3,499 due at signing, and up to 10,000 miles per year (20c/mile after that).

So yeah, you can lease one for that price but it's a reasonable initial cash payment.

Last edited by aceplace57; 03-21-2013 at 09:42 AM.
#49
Old 03-21-2013, 09:43 AM
Guest
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 67,149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatopescado View Post
Except all over the world. But not in the US, where we think the Corvette is the epitome of engeneering. Good thing plastic don't rust........
Either you're being facetious or you have absolutely no idea how Fiat build quality is perceived in the rest of the world.
#50
Old 03-21-2013, 10:38 AM
Suspended
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 18,476
I was just checking the local papers-all of the FIAT dealers around Boston have similar deals (low monthly rate leases). So I guess these cars are becoming hard to sell.
There is also another concern for potential FIAT buyers-will the marque stay in the USA? IF they don't, then owning an "orphan" car isn't very much fun. I remember when DAEWOO had their (abortive) attempt to sell their cars here-one poor guy tried to trade in his top-of-the-line "Leganza"-he was offered something like $2000 for it.
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:45 AM.

Copyright © 2017
Best Topics: annapolis pronunciation ivana diamond lotus santizing system walgreens drug test pool depths gif speed change worf dishonor fortnight definition sore ear cartilage dorothy sloop zathura imdb female cuckold rocky steele porn cotton kills the golden turd jw girlfriend transformer blowing circus tune carving granite freon liquid athlete jock sealing leather draino suicide drinking hemlock red bull flavor asphyxia suicide real french maid funny vietnamese names ka bar pronunciation nuclear war fiction walmart code 15 original miles naked mayor how to find out about a car accident 70 watt high pressure sodium lamp does paypal automatically deduct from bank account bank of america safepass transfer limit fallout 3 downloads greyed out ups dropped off package at wrong house two step charlie snake we don't need no water let the mother burn ace is the place with the helpful chicken with rib meat means do i need to prime drywall how to recycle a microwave oven meaning of toss your salad what is summer sausage made of does red wine freeze how to pronounce homage sell my black walnut tree what does lime do to a body violence doesn't solve anything why are there so many love songs turn heat off at night 550 the supplied message is incomplete. the signature was not verified. fat chicks in party hats foxen plural of fox do cats purr voluntarily do trees lose their leaves in florida why are solid state drives so expensive usps mailbox lock broken tube tvs worth anything going to a bar alone female do we eat roosters