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#1
Old 05-31-2013, 09:28 PM
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Is the Bose Wave system worth the steep price?

Here are the specs from Amazon, although I understand it might be smarter to buy it from Bose. I've lusted after it for years, but is it worth $450?
#2
Old 05-31-2013, 09:36 PM
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considering it likely costs them $25 to make, and relies on 1940s technology (transmission line speaker enclosure,) I'd have to say no. people get all wow'ed because they hear some mid-bass/low-midrange from 2" speakers and get all starry-eyed. Bose has been selling this thing since 1993 under a few different names, no idea why you're "lusting" after it.

Last edited by jz78817; 05-31-2013 at 09:40 PM.
#3
Old 05-31-2013, 09:38 PM
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The guy at the high-end stereo shop said to us, as we were looking at/listening to systems, "No highs, no lows, must be Bose."
#4
Old 05-31-2013, 10:09 PM
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This Yamaha system looks like a good alternative.
#5
Old 05-31-2013, 10:39 PM
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I asked a relative that was into electronics about these a few years ago.
He pointed out that all the 'testimonials' on their infomercials were senior citizens - they probably never heard a really good sound system and probably can't hear the full range of sounds...
It's actually hard to find a review that compare the Bose Waves to anything else.
Look into Denon D-M38 and Cambridge One+.
#6
Old 05-31-2013, 10:49 PM
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Shortly after we married, a friend of my wife's came over to our place on what we supposed was a social call. Turned out he and his wife were actually trying to persuade us to sign a contract to purchase a Bose Acoustic Wave (at least they didn't try to recruit us to sell them).

They were very enthusiastic about the sound, but seemed almost insulted when I asked to see a spec sheet.
#7
Old 05-31-2013, 11:08 PM
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Got one as a present. It has great sound for an alarm clock radio. Pretty nice for small footprint situations.

I'd use one for an office or bedside but its not going to take the place of my main entertainment system.

As with just about all Bose products you can get the same quality much cheaper if you take the time to do research. In my situation it was a case of my non-audio file wife wanting to get some quality sound and being willing to pay more than needed in order to insure that I'd like it.
#8
Old 05-31-2013, 11:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HipGnosis View Post
I asked a relative that was into electronics about these a few years ago.
He pointed out that all the 'testimonials' on their infomercials were senior citizens - they probably never heard a really good sound system and probably can't hear the full range of sounds...
It's actually hard to find a review that compare the Bose Waves to anything else.
Look into Denon D-M38 and Cambridge One+.
Hey! I'm a senior citizen. I will look at the ones you suggested. Several of the Yamaha reviews compare it to the Bose, saying it's just as good or better.
#9
Old 05-31-2013, 11:17 PM
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You are a senior citizen? Then you must get a McIntosh. It is for old people, it has tubes.

Last edited by eschereal; 05-31-2013 at 11:17 PM.
#10
Old 05-31-2013, 11:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jz78817 View Post
considering it likely costs them $25 to make...
People may find that $25 hard to believe, but with the economy of scale they get from the high production needed to supply all the old people watching Fox News (and ThelmaLou ), $25 may be high.

Was at a demo for some speakers that went for a cool quarter-million bucks a pair. The guy running the demo (the company's founder and owner) said that the money was all in the design and the fine materials (faux stone countertop material because it's very dense, laminated into 14"x14"x48" blocks because the material was only available in 3/4" thickness--those bastids were heavy!) and not the electronics. "We use the same $35 drivers (speakers) and outsourced crossovers as everybody else." A few hundred bucks in materials, another few hundred more for labor, maybe $1500 each out the door. Three grand magically turning into a quarter mill, and why? Because people are willing to pay it.

He later quoted me "a buck and a quarter" for a theater surround system, but "only seven-fifty if you just want them painted black. Yes, the real wood veneer (remember that a veneer is less than 1/16" thick) for seven speakers and two subwoofers cost half a million dollars. That would be a lot of Beanie Babies (literally, in this case). I think in this one case my customer actually said, "You got to be kidding," because the speakers we ended up using listed at a tenth as much.

What you should take from this is that what a company charges for a high-end product often has less to do with its true cost than with what the market will bear. Bose has marketed the Wave System masterfully, using its audiophile reputation (I lust after a pair of 901s, myself) to build the cachet of a product that is just a pretty good tabletop radio so that people are willing to pay over four times what would be its suggested retail price if it were made by a regular, mass-market company and sold at Target.

So my answer to the question in the OP is: It's worth the steep price if it's worth it to you. Just don't be surprised to find your friends laughing behind your back.

Last edited by dropzone; 05-31-2013 at 11:57 PM.
#11
Old 06-01-2013, 12:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BubbaDog View Post

As with just about all Bose products you can get the same quality much cheaper if you take the time to do research. In my situation it was a case of my non-audio file wife wanting to get some quality sound and being willing to pay more than needed in order to insure that I'd like it.
Or you can take the same money and spend it on a much nicer system. Some of those microsystems (like the one you linked to above, though I don't know anything about that specific one) do just fine. The biggest question is, what do you want to do with it.

If all you want is the radio or your iPod on while you're washing dishes or moving around in the house and you want to be able to hear it from one room to the other and you're really not all that concerned about quality. Save you're money and just go spend a hundred bucks on something that looks nice. If you actually do want some real bass*, you either have to get physically larger speakers or a separate subwoofer. There's some other questions to ask (budget, do you want surround sound for your TV while you're at it, what are you going to plug into it (just the radio, or mp3's/CDs as well)) but I think the first question is...what's your intention with it.
Actually, the most important question is...is it something you're going to use for long enough to make it worthwhile to you? If you're going to play with it for 3 months and then forget about it, then it's not worth it at all.

*By 'real bass' I don't mean shaking the windows. Adjusted properly, you don't even know it's there, but turn it off and suddenly everything sounds a bit flatter.
#12
Old 06-01-2013, 01:11 AM
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Originally Posted by For You View Post
You are a senior citizen? Then you must get a McIntosh. It is for old people, it has tubes.
Yes, I'm a Senior. And not being feeble-minded, I know the difference between speakers and turntables.
#13
Old 06-01-2013, 01:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by panache45 View Post
Yes, I'm a Senior. And not being feeble-minded, I know the difference between speakers and turntables.
A genuine old person believes that a speaker is the entertainment for the week, and that a turntable changes the directions of a train or trolley. Whippersnappers.
#14
Old 06-01-2013, 01:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dropzone View Post

Was at a demo for some speakers that went for a cool quarter-million bucks a pair. The guy running the demo (the company's founder and owner).........
Bohlander?
#15
Old 06-01-2013, 02:00 AM
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There are a few Dopers that have worked at Bose headquarters. I say the following as a person that is still pissed at them because they laid me off but I do know the way they operate. A lot of the criticism directed at them in general is not justified in the least and I would say it is completely misguided. Bose is not a company that runs consumer scams. It is basically an offshoot of an MIT research lab that Dr. Bose started and became one of the largest held private companies in the U.S. and by far the largest one that does true academic research as a part of its core mission. It has always focused on easy to use consumer products that deliver impressive results from small packages. In short, it is like the Apple of the sound world except it is older than Apple so maybe comparison should be turned around.

It is completely inaccurate to call any of their stuff junk. You have to see all their R&D facilities to appreciate why that is not true. It is like the Charlie and the Chocolate Factory of the sound world. Bose invests a tremendous amount of money in the best R&D labs that money can buy. Quality control is an obsession. They make much of their money not through consumer products but through exacting products like military aviation headsets. They invented many of the sound breakthroughs that you see in other products like effective active sound cancelling headphones.

Their stuff could be considered over-priced because their are so many near copies out there for cheaper but they invented the ideas. Audiophiles tend to hate Bose products mainly because they tend to be mentally ill but also because they like tinkering with equipment to get just the right sound to their ears even though that is an impossible task. Bose doesn't play that game. It is strictly plug and play and you get what your system does. Some people like that and some people don't.

BTW, saying that Bose produce frequency charts of their equipment is missing the point. The whole idea is about psycho-acoustics rather than just acoustics. Simple acoustics are easy. You just pile a bunch of speakers backed up with a whole bunch of other equipment in a room and let it rip. Psycho-acoustics is way harder. It is a real branch of neuroscience that tries to mimic a large sound in a small package. That is what Bose tries to do and most people think they do it well.

Last edited by Shagnasty; 06-01-2013 at 02:02 AM.
#16
Old 06-01-2013, 02:31 AM
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I'm familiar with the Bose company, and fully support it. My RL has a Bose system in it, and I thoroughly enjoy it.

Both my parents have Bose systems for home audio, and I have no idea why. I know now.

They spent hundreds on something they didn't need. I like Bose, but I hate how they have to market themselves.
#17
Old 06-01-2013, 10:31 AM
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I have tons of Bose equipment because my wife used to work for them.

I have two Bose Wave radios but only because I got them for free. They were prototypes for a Wave-based PC speaker system they were developing about a decade ago, and my wife was a big part of the project at the company. I agree with the above; it's a decent clock radio that wouldn't be worth the price they want at retail.

I also have a Lifestyle HT system she got cheap, and I think it sucks, especially for music. Instead of "no high, no lows" it's more like "no mid-range". Watching surround sound (which uses proprietary Bose surround, rather than industry standards), I always need to turn up the TV volume as well as the center speaker to hear dialogue.

I also have Bose environmental (outdoor) speakers -- the better model -- and they're OK, but lack low end. I would really like to update these to some Definite Technology or Klipsch outdoor speakers and maybe a subwoofer to match.

My new car has a Bose system in it, but that's actually pretty good. I know they spend time tailoring their system for each model.
#18
Old 06-01-2013, 11:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dropzone View Post
People may find that $25 hard to believe, but with the economy of scale they get from the high production needed to supply all the old people watching Fox News (and ThelmaLou ), $25 may be high.
You better smile when you say that, Bubba. I'm NPR all the way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by panache45 View Post
Yes, I'm a Senior. And not being feeble-minded, I know the difference between speakers and turntables.
Actually there were more than turntables on the site, but you have to browse around.
#19
Old 06-01-2013, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by ThelmaLou View Post
This Yamaha system looks like a good alternative.
Thanks. I've been shopping off and on for a radio to replace this Sangean internet radio. I really don't like the speakers and/or amplifier on this model. There doesn't seem to be any definition and I don't really need the streaming/internet portion for my purposes as it turns out.

edit: plus I have yamaha receivers for hdtv and office areas. I have some complaints about the interface but they're older models. Happy with the sound.

Last edited by deltasigma; 06-01-2013 at 02:47 PM.
#20
Old 06-02-2013, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by ThelmaLou View Post
You better smile when you say that, Bubba. I'm NPR all the way.
Then why would you need good audio? No snark intended, and I was the first one saying that us half-deaf old people need good audio more than young people, but my NPR station is almost entirely talk these days.
#21
Old 06-02-2013, 02:50 PM
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For the jingles of course.
#22
Old 06-02-2013, 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted by For You View Post
You are a senior citizen? Then you must get a McIntosh. It is for old people, it has tubes.
I had one, but as I got closer to 60, I found myself unable to lift it.
#23
Old 06-02-2013, 04:34 PM
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And carry it on your shoulder?
#24
Old 06-02-2013, 04:38 PM
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I bought this Sangean WR-3 a few years ago and like it.
#25
Old 06-02-2013, 04:48 PM
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If you have to have a small, one-piece system, it's one of the better choices. There might be some better ones out there but I'm not sure and it would depend on exactly what you need (do you need a radio, a CD player, an Ipod dock etc).

If you can live with 3 small boxes instead of one, I would recommend that you get a micro or "executive" stereo system like one of these:

http://amazon.com/Yamaha-MCR-232...dp/B005YXXTDS/
http://amazon.com/Onkyo-CS-445-C...dp/B004BD9W4W/
http://amazon.com/Denon-D-M39S-1...dp/B008PQAB3C/

They have all of the electronics in one box, plus a pair of bookshelf speakers. You can get real stereo separation, deeper bass, and much better overall sound quality if you hook up a good pair of bookshelf speakers. I have a few systems like that, but they're older ones I bought used so I'm not familiar with the current models. I'm not sure exactly how good the speakers are these. The Denons and Yamahas tend to have better speakers thank the Onkyos. Personally, I'd buy the Onkyo and then buy a good pair of speakers such as these: http://crutchfield.com/S-E2Yx5g9...-Alpha-B1.html which would add up to not much more than the Bose Wave radio version that has a CD player.

(I buy used, so I'd spend less than that, but I don't know if you want to spend the time watch for used stuff).
#26
Old 06-02-2013, 04:56 PM
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Bose gives OK music, but speech sounds like talking in a rain barrel - you want to adjust the treble/bass, but you can't, since it doesn't have it.
#27
Old 06-02-2013, 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by thirdname View Post
If you can live with 3 small boxes instead of one . . .
Onkyo looks nice and has both AM and FM - which is good since I like to listen to Bloomberg sometimes. Plus old people like AM.
#28
Old 06-02-2013, 06:00 PM
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Originally Posted by svd678 View Post
Bose gives OK music, but speech sounds like talking in a rain barrel - you want to adjust the treble/bass, but you can't, since it doesn't have it.
It wildly exaggerates the upper bass in order to compensate for the fact that it can't produce deep bass. (Nothing that size can.) It can sound impressive with some music, but annoying sometimes, especially with male voices.
#29
Old 06-02-2013, 06:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shagnasty View Post
There are a few Dopers that have worked at Bose headquarters. I say the following as a person that is still pissed at them because they laid me off but I do know the way they operate. A lot of the criticism directed at them in general is not justified in the least and I would say it is completely misguided. Bose is not a company that runs consumer scams. It is basically an offshoot of an MIT research lab that Dr. Bose started and became one of the largest held private companies in the U.S. and by far the largest one that does true academic research as a part of its core mission. It has always focused on easy to use consumer products that deliver impressive results from small packages. In short, it is like the Apple of the sound world except it is older than Apple so maybe comparison should be turned around.

It is completely inaccurate to call any of their stuff junk. You have to see all their R&D facilities to appreciate why that is not true. It is like the Charlie and the Chocolate Factory of the sound world. Bose invests a tremendous amount of money in the best R&D labs that money can buy. Quality control is an obsession. They make much of their money not through consumer products but through exacting products like military aviation headsets. They invented many of the sound breakthroughs that you see in other products like effective active sound cancelling headphones.

Their stuff could be considered over-priced because their are so many near copies out there for cheaper but they invented the ideas. Audiophiles tend to hate Bose products mainly because they tend to be mentally ill but also because they like tinkering with equipment to get just the right sound to their ears even though that is an impossible task. Bose doesn't play that game. It is strictly plug and play and you get what your system does. Some people like that and some people don't.

BTW, saying that Bose produce frequency charts of their equipment is missing the point. The whole idea is about psycho-acoustics rather than just acoustics. Simple acoustics are easy. You just pile a bunch of speakers backed up with a whole bunch of other equipment in a room and let it rip. Psycho-acoustics is way harder. It is a real branch of neuroscience that tries to mimic a large sound in a small package. That is what Bose tries to do and most people think they do it well.
Bose does have some nice facilities and does a lot of research, I agree with you on that. I think in certain instances their products are good choices, although overpriced. Their noise cancelling headphones are still some of the best out there, and if you absolutely have to have tiny speakers, the sound from Bose is among the best you are going to get, although severely lacking compared to similarly priced (or cheaper in most cases) bookshelf sized speakers. They can also go surprisingly loud considering there size while keeping distortion at reasonable levels.

You are very wrong about simple acoustics being easy. Getting a near flat frequency response out of a speaker is extremely difficult challenge, even when in an ideal room. While frequency response may indeed not be the end all to a speaker, their is no pscho-acoustical trick that can be used to make up for the fact that most Bose speakers have a gaping hole of sound in the 100-400 Hz frequencies. This unfortunately is where both male and female voices show up in the spectrum and I think is Bose's greatest failing. Various instruments can sound pretty nice on their speakers, but the human voice tends to be shortchanged. They also lack a true low end, but this is difficult to get without a decent sized sub, so I will cut them some slack here.

I will end by just saying that Bose speakers would be a lot cheaper if not for the massive amount spent on marketing. This is a large reason their costs are so much higher. Nothing wrong with that necessarily, but something to keep in mind when you are making a purchase.
#30
Old 06-02-2013, 08:42 PM
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Originally Posted by dropzone View Post
And carry it on your shoulder?
It's not like I can carry the 8 track player!
#31
Old 06-02-2013, 09:05 PM
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Originally Posted by seal_cleaner View Post
It's not like I can carry the 8 track player!
Serves you right for getting the model with quad.
#32
Old 06-02-2013, 09:16 PM
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Agree with those who said good but overpriced for most people's likely application. Like thirdname said if the small footprint is a critical requirement it may be a better value.



Still, dammit, it's something Paul *&^%$# Harvey used to advertise! No wonder everyone thinks its for oldsters!

Last edited by JRDelirious; 06-02-2013 at 09:18 PM.
#33
Old 06-02-2013, 10:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Jorge_Burrito View Post
I will end by just saying that Bose speakers would be a lot cheaper if not for the massive amount spent on marketing. This is a large reason their costs are so much higher. Nothing wrong with that necessarily, but something to keep in mind when you are making a purchase.
Did I mention my job there was in the Direct Marketing Group? That is a strange company in that technology innovation is a #1 priority but they have to fund that some way and they do it through some of the most brilliant marketing strategies ever designed. Again, think Apple but Bose is older than Apple so I am not sure who copied who. It is the same basic plan though. I know quite well how they operate. It is an impressive business plan on several levels.

I have several Bose products but I have never bought one. They were all given to me by Bose itself or others and would not buy them myself because I am too cheap for that and know where the money goes.

The products are genuine however (probably overpriced though) and can be the best for individual goals plus they have a lot of designer appeal in some circles. My current company gave me a pair of Bose MP3 headphones that cost about $150 as en employee appreciation gift. I would never buy that for myself because they look like something you can get the equivalent of for $20 for another reputable brand. I have had those things for two years and they are one of my favorite possessions. They turn my smart-phone into a concert hall or a movie theater. I usually fall asleep with them on my every night and would not do without them. No other small, dumb headphones sound nearly as good because they process the input and translate almost anything into something that sounds great plus they are remarkably durable. That is what Bose products try to accomplish and they usually do it well.

Last edited by Shagnasty; 06-02-2013 at 10:40 PM.
#34
Old 06-02-2013, 10:44 PM
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Originally Posted by ratatoskK View Post
I bought this Sangean WR-3 a few years ago and like it.
This one looks good, but several Amazon reviewers had problem with cds not playing. Did you?
#35
Old 06-03-2013, 12:17 AM
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I'm on the hunt for a pair of Bose 901 speakers, not so much for the sound (I have some fantastic Aussie made speakers and mosfet amp in my study for that) but for their decent sound and 1960's styling. I'm redoing my house in mid century modern and these fit right in.

Could I buy better sounding speakers for the money? Yep but that ain't the point.

Last edited by sisu; 06-03-2013 at 12:18 AM.
#36
Old 06-03-2013, 09:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Shagnasty View Post
Audiophiles tend to hate Bose products mainly because they tend to be mentally ill but also because they like tinkering with equipment to get just the right sound to their ears even though that is an impossible task.
None of those points can be overstressed, especially the crazy part (see my anecdote). It took me decades to get to the, "Fuck it, that's close enough," stage, and then it was because I started to mostly use headphones.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sisu View Post
Could I buy better sounding speakers for the money? Yep but that ain't the point.
Maybe, but don't sell them short. But place them like they are supposed to be placed, not as pieces of furniture. I know you know that, especially since proper placement will enhance the Playboy bachelor pad look you are trying for, but lurkers might need to know.

Speaking of placement, had a friend who hung these cheap, $17 for the pair, Rat Shack cubes with single, 4" drivers from his ceiling in macrame hangers. He used his new-found engineering skills and a SR-52 with red LEDs to calculate where, exactly, in the corners he should hang them. Not a lot of bass and the highs could've been higher, I suppose, but marvelous sound for under $20, including string. Of course, the $395 (1974 dollars) calculator was not included.

Last edited by dropzone; 06-03-2013 at 09:28 PM.
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