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#1
Old 12-15-2013, 08:41 AM
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What's the nicest country to flee to that has no extradition treaty with the US?

Inspired by this thread/case but, luckily, I don't need an answer fast*: what is the nicest country you, a US citizen, could flee to, without risk of getting extradited?

Say, you have at least...$500,000, and while you're a wanted felon, you're not Osama-level wanted, or active in any ongoing criminal activity. So you're probably not going to get SEAL Team Six or major economic sanctions thrown after you.

Throwing enough money at the right people could probably buy you some comfort and protection, I imagine, but say you'd at least just be satisfied with a little cottage somewhere where you could live out your retirement, reasonably safe from war, famine, insane dictators, roving bandits, or plague baboons.

The map of United States extradition treaty countries seems like a good place to start, at least, though I'm really at a loss aside from "definitely stay away from North Korea and Iran."

So...anyone want to weigh in? Your assistance will be remembered and rewarded when the day of rev—er, I mean, it could be an interesting thought experiment.**


*(At the moment.)
**(Yes, that will do.)
#2
Old 12-15-2013, 08:58 AM
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Just looking at that map briefly, I'd choose Andorra (without knowing their immigration laws.) It's in Europe so I could (probably) travel around easily. It's a country with a tourism industry so I imagine it's fairly comfortable.
#3
Old 12-15-2013, 09:05 AM
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Half million is not going to buy you much anywhere but looking at that map I would say Russia or China are countries where you can live at first world level.

Being restricted to Andorra is like being restricted to your home and, in any case, I am pretty sure if you are *really* wanted you would not be safe in Andorra.

China and Russia would seem like best bets. Just ask Snowden.
#4
Old 12-15-2013, 09:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Southern Yankee View Post
Just looking at that map briefly, I'd choose Andorra (without knowing their immigration laws.) It's in Europe so I could (probably) travel around easily. It's a country with a tourism industry so I imagine it's fairly comfortable.
The moment you cross the border to another country, you run the risk of being arrested and extradited by them, so travelling is not reallyan available option.
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#5
Old 12-15-2013, 09:22 AM
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I'd suggest Indonesia -- it's a very popular destination for Western tourists, particularly Australian tourists. You could spend your life moving from beach to beach in Bali, and no one would notice you.
#6
Old 12-15-2013, 09:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Schnitte View Post
The moment you cross the border to another country, you run the risk of being arrested and extradited by them, so travelling is not reallyan available option.
I have a fantastic fake mustache kit.
#7
Old 12-15-2013, 09:26 AM
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Andorra, hands down. However, they may not let you in with just chump change.

Marshall Is., Samoa or Vanuatu might take you for the crumbs you throw. There you'd have the nicest place to go even if you WEREN'T a felon.

Is there still time for you to commit a capital felony? That would open up all the EU countries, of which Monaco is the nicest. That little of money though won't get you a cottage on the beach.
#8
Old 12-15-2013, 09:34 AM
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Those who propose Andorra have obviously never been there or know anything about it. It is slightly bigger than my living room and all there is there is a couple ski slopes and a shopping mall. Within a month you'd be bored out of your mind and asking to be sent to Guantánamo. I'd rather share a room with Assange in London.
#9
Old 12-15-2013, 09:48 AM
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Croatia is pretty nice.
#10
Old 12-15-2013, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by sailor View Post
Those who propose Andorra have obviously never been there or know anything about it. It is slightly bigger than my living room and all there is there is a couple ski slopes and a shopping mall. Within a month you'd be bored out of your mind and asking to be sent to Guantánamo. I'd rather share a room with Assange in London.
I was going to suggest England as long as you stayed away from London ... the OP wants a place "reasonably safe from war, famine, insane dictators, roving bandits, or plague baboons." I have to agree that Cuba is nice, and without risk of getting extradited. A treaty exists, but I'd say you'd still have zero risk of getting sent back for prosecution.
#11
Old 12-15-2013, 10:14 AM
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I'd also like to add that being in another country without anextradition treaty with the US is not necessarily a guarantee you'd remain undisturbed. Even in the absence of such a treaty, there is little to prevent the country from extraditing you on an ad hoc basis, or simply prosecute you there.
#12
Old 12-15-2013, 11:53 AM
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Surely it would be cheaper to get a fake passport and come to the UK where Americans don't stand out from the crowd, and the language is more or less the same. So long as you didn't try to work or draw any benefits, no one is likely to bother you. If you are wanted for murder in a state with the death sentence, you might even risk applying for political asylum.

$½m would not be enough though.

Last edited by bob++; 12-15-2013 at 11:55 AM.
#13
Old 12-15-2013, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Giles View Post
I'd suggest Indonesia -- it's a very popular destination for Western tourists, particularly Australian tourists. You could spend your life moving from beach to beach in Bali, and no one would notice you.
Seconded...it is cheap, far away from the US and there are plenty of expat/beach bums wandering around and you would not be noticed. $20,000 a year would let you live really well for 25 years and surviving on $10,000 a year wouldn't be much trouble. Plus it is a relatively big place and you could even move islands on fishing boats if you really needed to.
#14
Old 12-15-2013, 01:20 PM
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If you are a smart bad guy, you have a legal passport and prior permission to go to that country for an extended time from it.

Now commit the crime and just leave before you are even looked for.

If you are just a dumb ass smash & grabber with only an fake drivers license, the clothes on your back and a bag of money, then even asking where to go just adds to the 'dumb ass' that makes the question moot.
#15
Old 12-15-2013, 02:20 PM
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A half million might go a long way in Cuba. Decent medical care, fantastic weather and certainly no extradition to the US.
#16
Old 12-15-2013, 02:44 PM
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While the list of countries with no extradition treaty with the U.S. is factual, the "nicest" one of these is more of a matter of opinion.

Moving thread from General Questions to In My Humble Opinion.
#17
Old 12-15-2013, 03:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by watchwolf49 View Post
Is there still time for you to commit a capital felony? That would open up all the EU countries, of which Monaco is the nicest. That little of money though won't get you a cottage on the beach.
Being wanted for a capital offence doesn't make you immune from extradition. It just means the other country won't extradite you unless the US guarantees you won't be executed if convicted.
#18
Old 12-15-2013, 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Northern Piper View Post
Being wanted for a capital offence doesn't make you immune from extradition. It just means the other country won't extradite you unless the US guarantees you won't be executed if convicted.
This. They might even have provisions for local prosecution if the country requesting extradition won't remove capital punishment as a possibility.

Last edited by runningdude; 12-15-2013 at 03:13 PM.
#19
Old 12-15-2013, 03:13 PM
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I don't think Indonesia would be a good idea if you like recreational drugs.
#20
Old 12-15-2013, 04:35 PM
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I think I would head to Madagascar. The dollar goes pretty far there, and their human rights policy is top notch.
#21
Old 12-15-2013, 05:08 PM
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Originally Posted by echo7tango View Post
Croatia is pretty nice.
I'd pick Slovenia ahead of Croatia. Slovenia was lucky and got out of the break-up of Yugoslavia without any combat. And there's a large number of English speakers, which would make life easier.
#22
Old 12-15-2013, 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Northern Piper View Post
Being wanted for a capital offence doesn't make you immune from extradition. It just means the other country won't extradite you unless the US guarantees you won't be executed if convicted.
And if you're Charles Ng, they'll extradite you anyway.
#23
Old 12-15-2013, 06:52 PM
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IMHO, by region:

SE Europe: Slovenia*, although your dollars can probably go much farther in nearby countries. I too would say Croatia is a little lower, but still a nice place. Both have very pretty landscapes and architecture. Belarus would be the worst choice, Moldova probably the poorest (not necessarily a bad thing).
Middle East and North Africa: Morocco. Lebanon, parts of it. UAE if that's your thing but your money will be gone quickly. Maybe Tunisia.
Sub-Saharan Africa: Namibia, many of the various islands e.g. Cape Verde, Mauritania is the one that's closed to SE of Madagascar, the latter of which has had some problems lately but not the kind that will get your head chopped off. Nice nature.
Asia: Mongolia, or China and Russia (see Europe also) with less human rights. Places like Moscow will drain your reserves fast. Not sure what the least bad -stan is. Kyrgyzstan?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Little Nemo View Post
I'd pick Slovenia ahead of Croatia. Slovenia was lucky and got out of the break-up of Yugoslavia without any combat. And there's a large number of English speakers, which would make life easier.
*Well, they had 10 days of war, but it was curtailed by Croatia's secession and they were in the between the two countries. Also, I've heard mixed things: but maybe they have a high tax burden?

Also, I assume that if an extradition treaty is signed, then you'll have to move again? I put Slovenia high on the list of next country to sign with the US.
#24
Old 12-15-2013, 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted by watchwolf49 View Post
I was going to suggest England as long as you stayed away from London ... the OP wants a place "reasonably safe from war, famine, insane dictators, roving bandits, or plague baboons." I have to agree that Cuba is nice, and without risk of getting extradited. A treaty exists, but I'd say you'd still have zero risk of getting sent back for prosecution.
March 14, 2015: History is set as President Obama lifts the blockade between the US and Cuba, allowing free trade and travel between the two countries since before most Americans were born.

March 27, 2015: Ranchoth is extradited back to the USA for both mopery and dopery.

Last edited by Ethilrist; 12-15-2013 at 07:05 PM. Reason: I like string
#25
Old 12-15-2013, 07:27 PM
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I don't see Iran as that bad
It's not that corrupt for the middle east, it's got a well educated and young workforce and it's desperate for investment. It'd be easy to start up a successful business.

Ethnicly it is diverse, and you'd not stand out too much or encounter too much racism. Religiously, there are significant and legally protected Orthodox Christian and Jewish communities. Heathcare is cheap and good.

The religious laws and culture is a lot less strict than popularly imagined, shesh! there is even effectively legal prostitution if you are Muslim. There are all woman special forces units. It's hardly Saudi Arabia.

I wouldn't go if you were a gay man or a evangelising Christian, but if you are genderqueer it is surprisingly liberal towards transpeople.

Last edited by Namkcalb; 12-15-2013 at 07:31 PM.
#26
Old 12-15-2013, 07:46 PM
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I'm surprised nobody has yet mentioned Snowden's original hiding spot: Hong Kong, while technically a Special Administrative Region and not a country, it has every imaginable modern convenience, widespread English thanks to 100 years of British rule and is close enough to many other non-extradition countries that you wouldn't feel cooped up.

$500K wouldn't go far but the job market is robust so, assuming you have marketable skills, you could make a very good living.
#27
Old 12-15-2013, 07:56 PM
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$500k the government are not going to waste man power and money to bring back $500k u will just be on there wanted list,perhaps a Eastern European country would be best, you can basically bribe ur way anywhere there,plus they are lovely little countries, I've been to most it's very poor in some parts but you can have a very comfortable life in Macedonia on a lake. But be sure that all a secret agent needs to do is lure you into another European country which they can snap you and take I back to USA. Or you could just give yourself in, you will go to jail anyways, so you might as well give it to charity or to deserving people who are in great need, be a Robin Hood, it's probally the greatest good you could do for humanity rather than hiding out
#28
Old 12-15-2013, 08:36 PM
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Originally Posted by thelurkinghorror View Post
I put Slovenia high on the list of next country to sign with the US.
I was surprised to see there isn't an existing treaty. Slovenia is a member of NATO and the EU and most other countries in these organizations have extradition treaties with the United States.

I noticed that none of the countries that came out of the former Yugoslavia have treaties. Is this a coincidence or is there a pattern at work?
#29
Old 12-15-2013, 09:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Little Nemo View Post
I noticed that none of the countries that came out of the former Yugoslavia have treaties. Is this a coincidence or is there a pattern at work?
Well note one point for the map quoted above: "Data source is list of U.S. extradition treaties as of April 2006"--so there could well be treaties post 2006 for some of the countries which came out of the the former Yugoslavia.

Is there a current list of countries?
#30
Old 12-15-2013, 09:28 PM
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New Caledonia is not marked as being an extradition treaty place on the map.
Hard to believe that you are safe from extradition there though...
#31
Old 12-15-2013, 10:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Frank View Post
And if you're Charles Ng, they'll extradite you anyway.
The law in Canada has changed since the Ng case. Nowadays, the Canadian government would require a guarantee of no execution as a condition of extradition.
#32
Old 12-16-2013, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by sailor View Post
Andorra... is slightly bigger than my living room and all there is there is a couple ski slopes and a shopping mall.
You'd never said you were Isabel Preysler! Those "couple ski slopes and shopping mall" are pretty big, although someone from the US (specially someone from that enormous flattish area in the middle) might get claustrophobic real fast. Not someone from LA: those would feel right at home in the daily traffic jam, once they got used to the lack of lanes.


ETA: I checked and to become a resident you need to have a permanent job (it may be for your own Andorran company). I haven't gotten to the point of checking what are the requirements to create an Andorran company.

Last edited by Nava; 12-16-2013 at 09:32 AM.
#33
Old 12-17-2013, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by echo7tango View Post
Croatia is pretty nice.
So is Slovenia - but as Past Tense said, they probably have an agreement in place by now.

Is Taiwan a decent place these days?

Last edited by StusBlues; 12-17-2013 at 12:25 PM.
#34
Old 12-17-2013, 12:36 PM
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For me, definitely Viet Nam. I'd buy a little place in Nha Trang and spend my exile very happily.
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