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#1
Old 03-16-2014, 02:14 AM
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Don't go hollow: Dark Souls 2

I'm a bit surprised nobody made a thread on this, but it looks like the last DS thread never got much traction either despite people talking about it all the time on this board.

Has anybody picked it up yet? It came out on PS3 and 360 a few days ago, and will come out on PC next month. Supposedly they hired a bunch of real PC developers, and actually developed the new engine code on PC first and then ported it to consoles (no, I don't know why PC is coming out later then), so it shouldn't be a shitty port this time.

I picked up the PS3 version, and I had it given to me as a preorder on Steam. I'll probably move to PC after it comes out there, but until then, yay!

Even if you want to avoid spoilers, I heavily advise looking up the new mechanics. They're just different enough from Dark Souls that I think having played it may put you at more of a disadvantage than a new player if you don't learn them.

I'm planning on making a hex-based character. Hexes are a new form of magic that rely on both int AND faith. A lot of hexes have an interesting mechanic where they drain souls to have greater effects. For instance, Dark Magic Weapon can drain up to 2000 souls from you to greatly increase the dark damage it enchants the weapon with.

Some important things and minor hints (spoilered for length and people who want to figure out new mechanics themselves, no major plot spoilers):

SPOILER:
Monsters have limited respawns, around 15. After you beat the area's boss, you can use an item called a Bonfire Ascetic to put that area (and that area alone) in New Game+ difficulty, which will reset loot and respawn enemies at the higher difficulty. One word of warning is that this stacks with NG+. So if you use an ascetic in NG to make an area NG+, when you start an actual NG+ on that character, it will be like it's NG++.

There are a few new stats. Notably, while all stats now increase health, the "health increase" stat is Vigor, not Vitality. Vigor also increases your equip load.

If you find certain items, you can respec by going back to the firekeepers at the beginning of the game.

There's a sex change coffin somewhere in the prologue level if you want to change your character's sex.

Weapon upgrades on separate paths now. No more arcane "get things to +5 then go to this blacksmith and..." nonsense. There are two things: upgrades and infusions. You can upgrade weapons to +10, and "infuse" them with fire/lightning/etc. These infusion materials are relatively common so it lets you swap out the damage type of your favorite weapon depending on the area you're going to. That said, there are two blacksmiths that do different infusion paths.

You can get invaded while hollow, so there's literally no reason to not be human except for a couple items that work better while hollow. To offset this, you can burn a human effigy (the item that turns out human) at any bonfire to lower the chance you'll be invaded. You can still only summon friends while human.

Every time you die, you lose a little of your max life, up to a total of only having half a health bar. Becoming human reverses this. If you kill NPCs or invade other players with cracked red eye orbs, you gain "sin" which allows your max health to go below half when hollowed.

Soul levels seem to be easier to get, and item prices seem cheaper. Most people seem to finish the game around SL 120. I hear the most expensive item is 10k souls.

You get your flask and level up at a lady in Marjoram, the main town. Don't leave until you find her, I hear a lot of players miss her.

If you're not good, don't join the covenant given to you by the tablet in Marjoram. Well, join it for the achievement and item, but immediately leave it. It makes everything harder. There's a reason it asks you 3 times if you're sure you want to join it. It also makes it so you can't summon help.

You can warp between any two bonfires you've lit from the beginning of the game.
#2
Old 03-16-2014, 07:22 AM
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I enjoyed the first game a lot, so I'm more excited about Dark Souls 2 than any other game coming out right now. I'm still waiting for the PC version. I've been trying to avoid boss, map, item and story spoilers as I want to play it blind, but I don't mind knowing about game mechanics in advance.

Last edited by sohvan; 03-16-2014 at 07:25 AM.
#3
Old 03-16-2014, 09:00 AM
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From what I could gather without spoiling myself (pre-ordered on PC, can't wait) :

SPOILER:

- you can dual wield. Well, you already could in DS1 but there was little point to it outside of the parrying dagger (and even then...). In DS2 if you have two weapons of the same general type you can enter a special fighting stance that uses both, with a different moveset and more damage
- you lose 10% of your max life when you die, up to 50% max. Dunno how you regain it, probably by going human
- humanity and hollowing are still a thing, but work differently. I don't know the specifics.
- You can get invaded, invade and get summoned even when hollow. No escape. But apparently both invasions and summonings are now time limited, and there's an item you can wear that makes mobs aggro on invaders too
- Invasions are not just based on character level any more, but also on the "age" of the character (i.e. how long you've played that toon). So asshats ganking newbs with their SL1 guy wielding god's own gear might not be a thing to be afraid of any more, or not as much.
- there only one place where you can level, you can't do it at any bonfire any more
- the illusory walls are still there, but now you reveal them by trying to "open" them instead of smacking them like a dumb brute
- respeccing is a thing now, but it's not at will
- there are consumable healing items on top of the estus flask, and consumable items that refill spell/pyro uses as well
- Sunbros are still in. Praise the sun !
#4
Old 03-17-2014, 05:37 PM
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I've been playing for a week or so now and here's my observations:

1) Hard. Harder than DS1 IMHO mainly due to how quickly gear deteriorates in this game. Yeah it's true that it repairs itself at bonfires, but in the early game it's very hard to make it bonfire to bonfire before your weapons break if you are a melee character. This leads to you having to kill a bunch of MOBs and have to turn around and head back to your old bonfire, even though you have plenty of health, to repair your weapons.

2) If you don't have a guidebook it's going to be slow going through this one, much like DS1. It's annoying how forum dwellers brag about how far they've gotten so quickly when there's no way they did it without some sort of guidebook. Im sorry, I just don't believe that person X was able to beat the game and hit all the secrets 2-3 days after the game came out without using a guidebook. Impossible IMHO. Too many secrets and poorly explained items. Wouldn't be so bad if they admitted that they had help but alot of them act like things were "so easy" to figure out.

3) Don't like the fact that you can only level up at a specific bonfire. Absolutely worthless design decision. All it does is slow you down, and not in a good way.

4) Not a fan of the limited enemy respawns. For those that don't know enemies will only respawn 15 or so times before they are gone forever. This creates problems for people like me who die over and over and lose souls before they can level up. I lost a ton of souls early on because I was learning the game mechanics but couldn't build up enough souls to lvl up, so I would lose them and not be able to get back to my bloodstain to recover them. This would be fine if I could continue to kill and collect souls after I figure things out, but by the time I do they stop spawning and it's on to the next area, under leveled. There are no soft enemies in this game at any level, meaning even the early zombie dudes can and will kill you pretty easily regardless of what level you are.

5) The mood of the game is pretty close to DS1, though maybe a bit brighter.

6) Melee combat is a little more floaty IMHO and has some weird delays in animations.

7) Some enemies seem to have an extended "hit zone" where they swing a sword that you can see missing you but somehow it still registers a hit. This is particularly annoying at the 2nd boss.

8) The camera needs hella work.

Probably going to pick up the guide and start a new character. Should go better now that I understand the mechanics more. I tried a warrior first and it was tough. Tried a sorcerer last night and it was super easy. Starts with a spell that hits for high damage from a long distance. Very easy to stay alive with him.

All in all it's pretty good, though I really hate the weapon degradation aspect and the limited respawning of enemies. I wish the combat felt like DS1, this one just feels a bit squishier.

ETA 9) Every time you die your max health takes a semi-permanent hit until you get to 50% max. The only way around this is to turn human, which takes a item. This has lead to me essentially playing the entire game so far in Hollow form at half life. It's too much IMHO when coupled with the fast weapon deterioration.

Last edited by Cubsfan; 03-17-2014 at 05:39 PM.
#5
Old 03-17-2014, 06:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cubsfan View Post
1) Hard. Harder than DS1 IMHO mainly due to how quickly gear deteriorates in this game. Yeah it's true that it repairs itself at bonfires, but in the early game it's very hard to make it bonfire to bonfire before your weapons break if you are a melee character. This leads to you having to kill a bunch of MOBs and have to turn around and head back to your old bonfire, even though you have plenty of health, to repair your weapons.
I don't feel like I can have a fair opinion on whether this game is easier or harder than DkS. I died way more in the first game, but I was also stupidly adamant about learning how to parry everything. I also have more experience coming into this game.

I haven't had much trouble with gear deterioration. If you're using a wimpy weapon it could be more noticeable, because it takes more hits to kill things and thus it deteriorates more. You said you started with the warrior, which starts with the crappiest of crappy weapons. There have only been one or two times I've gotten into the danger zone. I generally recommend keeping a sidearm just in case, in No-Man's Wharf I had to switch from my +4 broadsword to a +0 fire longsword I found just because that area is so long. I didn't kill things quite as quickly and took more damage due to that, but I think I'm going to start upgrading a sidearm just to be safe in the longer areas. That or buy a bunch of repair powder.

Overall, I don't know how to feel about the durability change. On one hand, except in a small handful of cases durability in the original was a joke, on the other hand, the new system just adds needs for no reason.

Quote:
2) If you don't have a guidebook it's going to be slow going through this one, much like DS1. It's annoying how forum dwellers brag about how far they've gotten so quickly when there's no way they did it without some sort of guidebook. Im sorry, I just don't believe that person X was able to beat the game and hit all the secrets 2-3 days after the game came out without using a guidebook. Impossible IMHO. Too many secrets and poorly explained items. Wouldn't be so bad if they admitted that they had help but alot of them act like things were "so easy" to figure out.
I had the Forest of the Giants spoiled for me, but other than that I haven't and I only had one real problem where I got confused so far (there's something special you have to do to summon the boss in No-Man's Wharf that I completely missed).

Quote:
3) Don't like the fact that you can only level up at a specific bonfire. Absolutely worthless design decision. All it does is slow you down, and not in a good way.
Yeah, not quite sure about that. Since they added teleports to anywhere it's not a huge deal, but a confusing decision.

Quote:
4) Not a fan of the limited enemy respawns. For those that don't know enemies will only respawn 15 or so times before they are gone forever. This creates problems for people like me who die over and over and lose souls before they can level up. I lost a ton of souls early on because I was learning the game mechanics but couldn't build up enough souls to lvl up, so I would lose them and not be able to get back to my bloodstain to recover them. This would be fine if I could continue to kill and collect souls after I figure things out, but by the time I do they stop spawning and it's on to the next area, under leveled. There are no soft enemies in this game at any level, meaning even the early zombie dudes can and will kill you pretty easily regardless of what level you are.
I was worried about people having that problem. I've only lost my bloodstain 2-3 times, but every time it's like "whelp there's 10k souls permanently removed from the game". I think the intention was to make it more tolerable to make boss runs after 15 failures, but it's absolutely detrimental if you're having issues with the level itself.

The "solution" of bonfire ascetics just slaps people who aren't really good in the face.

Quote:
6) Melee combat is a little more floaty IMHO and has some weird delays in animations.
I haven't noticed that, but other people have.

Quote:
7) Some enemies seem to have an extended "hit zone" where they swing a sword that you can see missing you but somehow it still registers a hit. This is particularly annoying at the 2nd boss.
You're going to have to be more specific since there's at least 4 bosses that could conceivably be "second" . I assume you mean the Pursuer, who definitely has odd hit detection on his charging move. It took me a while to learn exactly what direction and timing to dodge in. I think this was in DS1 though, people just didn't notice it as much because rolling had a lot more invincibility frames.

Quote:
8) The camera needs hella work.
There's a super useful option in the options menu that lets you turn off camera autocorrect. I forgot what it's called though.

Quote:
Probably going to pick up the guide and start a new character. Should go better now that I understand the mechanics more. I tried a warrior first and it was tough. Tried a sorcerer last night and it was super easy. Starts with a spell that hits for high damage from a long distance. Very easy to stay alive with him.
Most people seem to agree that warrior is an atrocious starting class with bad stat spread and a worthless starting item. Try the Knight instead. Yeah, you lack a shield, but except for the giant ogres the tutorial should be easy. You can two-shot the enemies by two-handing the broadsword and using weak attacks. (And, honestly, you don't have to fight anything in the tutorial, you can run down the path ignoring the fog doors and head straight to Majula, but you won't have any souls then).

After that, you can buy the Silver Eagle Kite Shield from the armorer, which is a pretty good shield

Quote:
ETA 9) Every time you die your max health takes a semi-permanent hit until you get to 50% max. The only way around this is to turn human, which takes a item. This has lead to me essentially playing the entire game so far in Hollow form at half life. It's too much IMHO when coupled with the fast weapon deterioration.
In No-Man's Wharf (if you can get that far) there's a secret room that holds a ring that's essentially a Ring of Sacrifice. Except instead of being destroyed when you die, you have to go to the blacksmith and repair it for 3K souls. Also of note is that in the Tower of Heide there's a ring called the "Ring of Binding" that reduces the max HP loss while hollow to 75% of max rather than 50%.

Last edited by Jragon; 03-17-2014 at 06:50 PM.
#6
Old 03-17-2014, 07:52 PM
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Waiting for PC version as well.

Apparently the Devs have been working on the PC version first, and released shots/video of the PC version. Now there's like a 50 page thread on Gaff about how the console gamers were deceived!!!

Jeebus, it's 7 year old hardware and they said they were working on the PC version when those shots came out.
#7
Old 03-17-2014, 08:01 PM
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You shouldn't buy Dark Souls 2 until they fix Dark Souls 1 to accommodate the GFWL shutdown.
#8
Old 03-17-2014, 09:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Palooka View Post
You shouldn't buy Dark Souls 2 until they fix Dark Souls 1 to accommodate the GFWL shutdown.
Why? Everyone knows DS1 was a shitty port that used shitty GLFW, I see no reason to punish them except by advising people to not buy the first game. DS2 is going to use Steamworks, so it should work fine.

Last edited by Jragon; 03-17-2014 at 09:13 PM.
#9
Old 03-17-2014, 09:31 PM
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One thing to note about the PC version: for $50 and a preorder, you get everything in the $120 console collector's edition, (except digital instead of physical).
#10
Old 03-17-2014, 10:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Jragon View Post
Why? Everyone knows DS1 was a shitty port that used shitty GLFW, I see no reason to punish them except by advising people to not buy the first game. DS2 is going to use Steamworks, so it should work fine.
Because people paid money for Dark Souls and they should be able to play their game beyond July. Not buying the next game is the only clout you have against Namco.
#11
Old 03-17-2014, 10:23 PM
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You can still play it, you just can't do online stuff. Which is a chunk of the game, and a significant one for some people, yes, but it's not like nobody can play it at all and the vast majority of the content is still doable. Pretty much the only thing you can't do is advance in some of the covenants.

I don't do boycotts anyway.
#12
Old 03-17-2014, 10:36 PM
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Dark Souls 2 here fellas
#13
Old 03-17-2014, 11:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Jragon View Post
You can still play it, you just can't do online stuff. Which is a chunk of the game, and a significant one for some people, yes, but it's not like nobody can play it at all and the vast majority of the content is still doable. Pretty much the only thing you can't do is advance in some of the covenants.
You can't install it. It hits GFWL as DRM on install.
#14
Old 03-23-2014, 04:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jragon View Post
I was worried about people having that problem. I've only lost my bloodstain 2-3 times, but every time it's like "whelp there's 10k souls permanently removed from the game". I think the intention was to make it more tolerable to make boss runs after 15 failures, but it's absolutely detrimental if you're having issues with the level itself.

The "solution" of bonfire ascetics just slaps people who aren't really good in the face.
Actually, I think the intended solution might simply be PvP, which apparently is more ingrained into the game this time around.
Of course, if you dislike PvP and the cheesedickery that goes on there (and, if you're playing on PC, the outright hacking and cheating), that doesn't help. It *is* an infinitely renewable source of souls though. You don't even have to be a dick or nothing - sunbros make good money tanking bosses, from what I hear.

Also, be careful with those bonfire ascetics. From what I hear, be it by bug or design their effect carries over between playthroughs, so if you use one to, say, bump up a merchant's inventory to enjoy NG+ items or respawn an early boss to farm its NG+ ass, then that boss will be NG++ should you run NG+, and so will the monsters around that merchant. Something to keep in mind.

Quote:
Most people seem to agree that warrior is an atrocious starting class with bad stat spread and a worthless starting item. Try the Knight instead. Yeah, you lack a shield, but except for the giant ogres the tutorial should be easy. You can two-shot the enemies by two-handing the broadsword and using weak attacks. (And, honestly, you don't have to fight anything in the tutorial, you can run down the path ignoring the fog doors and head straight to Majula, but you won't have any souls then).
Honestly, why anybody would pick something other than Cleric for their first playthrough boggles my mind. In DS1 the Heal miracle made faffing about walking into every trap and learning not to get roflpwnd by mooks soooo much easier. Since DS2 has the whole "screw your lifebar, git gud scrub" thing going on, additional sources of health to be used even if you only got slightly nicked seem all the more important.

Plus it seems the offensive miracles (lightning spear et al.) are broken powerful in this game, so there's that too
#15
Old 03-23-2014, 04:32 PM
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Not to get in the area of threadshitting, but does it have the same voice acting? I tried the first one and just couldn't get past the first 30 minutes of the "Everybody's on massive doses of horse tranquilizers" voice track.
#16
Old 03-23-2014, 04:40 PM
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Originally Posted by wolfman View Post
Not to get in the area of threadshitting, but does it have the same voice acting? I tried the first one and just couldn't get past the first 30 minutes of the "Everybody's on massive doses of horse tranquilizers" voice track.
Yeah, it still uses the same VA company, so if you hated it that much you're going to hate it again. You can, as in DkS1, press X (A on XBox) to skip individual lines of dialogue so if you start to get bored you can just read the subtitle and skip the talking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kobal2 View Post
Honestly, why anybody would pick something other than Cleric for their first playthrough boggles my mind. In DS1 the Heal miracle made faffing about walking into every trap and learning not to get roflpwnd by mooks soooo much easier. Since DS2 has the whole "screw your lifebar, git gud scrub" thing going on, additional sources of health to be used even if you only got slightly nicked seem all the more important.

Plus it seems the offensive miracles (lightning spear et al.) are broken powerful in this game, so there's that too
Cleric is a bit hurt by the fact that it lacks the strength to wield its starting weapon and a shield at the same time. My Knight (who I'm making into a hexer) has heal now, which is definitely useful in a "three extra out of battle Estus flask" sort of way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Palooka View Post
You can't install it. It hits GFWL as DRM on install.
You're kind of right. You can install it, but I found out you can't save if you're not connected to GLFW. Either way, agree to disagree on the boycot thing. Besides, Namdai said they're "thinking of solutions". That's wishy-washy and doesn't mean they'll actually do anything, but I hope they will.
#17
Old 03-24-2014, 07:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jragon View Post
Cleric is a bit hurt by the fact that it lacks the strength to wield its starting weapon and a shield at the same time. My Knight (who I'm making into a hexer) has heal now, which is definitely useful in a "three extra out of battle Estus flask" sort of way.
I heard about that, but it's only 1 point right ? (Besides, my last DkS run was with a pure STR, shitclub melee guy so I've gotten used to quickly switching shield on/off to hit stuff, and using rolls as my primary form of damage mitigation)

Right now, my big blind plan is : get that STR to rock the mace, then pump ADP to the 20s for the fast roll, pump STR again to dual wield maces/morningstars because the idea makes me emit evil chuckles, pump Stamina until I can get two full combos out of them and some spare, then finally start working on ATTN and FTH. Not sure when Vitality will come in though. I guess when I start dying too much or start getting invaded a lot

From what I hear, dual wielding Cestus is pretty ridiculous too, however. Stunlock everything everyday. I might look into that because punching dragons to death ? Sounds a'ight.
#18
Old 03-24-2014, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Jragon View Post
There are a few new stats. Notably, while all stats now increase health, the "health increase" stat is Vigor, not Vitality. Vigor also increases your equip load.
I'm de-spoilering this because it's important, and the stat stuff you find out basically the first time you level up in the first fifteen minutes.

But this is wrong...sort of.

Right now, EVERY stat increase will also increase your HP by a small amount. However, Vitality is still the "main" health stat, increasing Vitality will make your HP increase by 2-4 times as much as increasing a different stat. It also plays a role in resistances.

You are right that Vigor determines equip. load, as well as playing a part in your resistances to status effects and overall physical defense (resistances and defense use multiple stats.)

Other important stats:

Endurance determines stamina, as well as also playing a role in defense and resistances, and determining your "armor-less" poise.

Adaptability. A BRAND NEW stat not in Demon's Souls or Dark Souls. Plays a few roles. It increases the speed that you roll, attack, and cast spells. It also helps with resistances and poise.

The other stats are basically the same as Dark Souls 1.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kobal2 View Post
Plus it seems the offensive miracles (lightning spear et al.) are broken powerful in this game, so there's that too
They REALLY increased the Faith scaling of the offensive miracles in this game. So Lightning Spear, Sun Spear, etc... are really only great if you go either straight Faith, or a combo of Faith/Int for a Hex build.

I rolled a Knight, because I like the idea of being mostly melee, with some offensive and defensive spells to fall back on in though situations, but it hasn't been nearly as viable as it was in Dark Souls I. My Lightning Spears are ok against regular enemies, but when I fight bosses, which much higher overall resistances, they suck. I average less than 100 damage per spear against bosses.

I have 25 Faith, so I can only cast Lightning Spear, not Great Lightning Spear or Sun Spear. And it took almost twenty levels to get to that from the knight's starting Faith. On top of that, I needed to spend almost ten levels just to get my Attunement high enough to let me have just ONE spell.

Kind of disingenuous to "advertise" a class as being a great melee and Faith mix-build, but have him start off so gimped, and make it so that to make his Faith part viable, you really have to completely forgo the melee half.

I think I'm going to go back and re-spec and remove my spells entirely and use all those extra levels to up my Stamina, Equip. Load, and Agility.

The diminishing returns on some of these stats are much worse now, too. Endurance, for instance, gives 2 stamina per point increase up to 20 (I think,) then only ONE stamina per point after that. Makes it harder to make a big, tank-y type melee character, ESPECIALLY when you then have to put a lot of points into Vitality to get your equip. load up.

However, that being said, the overall game seems to be designed for higher levels than Dark Souls 1. It was common to finish Dark Souls I in the 100-120 level range, and I think Dark Souls 2 is aiming for you to finish closer to 150.

'm about 2/3rds into the game, and I still reliably get summoned to help people with bosses and areas at SL 110.
#19
Old 03-24-2014, 05:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bouv View Post
I'm de-spoilering this because it's important, and the stat stuff you find out basically the first time you level up in the first fifteen minutes.

But this is wrong...sort of.

Right now, EVERY stat increase will also increase your HP by a small amount. However, Vitality is still the "main" health stat, increasing Vitality will make your HP increase by 2-4 times as much as increasing a different stat. It also plays a role in resistances.

You are right that Vigor determines equip. load, as well as playing a part in your resistances to status effects and overall physical defense (resistances and defense use multiple stats.)

Other important stats:

Endurance determines stamina, as well as also playing a role in defense and resistances, and determining your "armor-less" poise.

Adaptability. A BRAND NEW stat not in Demon's Souls or Dark Souls. Plays a few roles. It increases the speed that you roll, attack, and cast spells. It also helps with resistances and poise.

The other stats are basically the same as Dark Souls 1.
Okay, here's the stat rundown:

Vigor: Increases health the most
Endurance: Increases stamina
Vitality: Increases equip load, defense stats, and resistances
Attumenet: Increases attunement slots and agility
Strength: Increases ability to wield certain weapons (and affects strength scaling)
Dexterity: Increases ability to wield certain weapons (and affects dex scaling)
Adaptability: Increases agility and resistances
Faith: Allows you to use certain miracles; increases lighting damage a lot and fire damage a little
Int: Allows you to use certain spells; increases magic damage a lot and fire damage a little

Other notes:

Agility, increased mostly by adaptability and a little by attunement decreases spell casting speed, the amount of time it takes to drink an Estus flask, and the number of invincibility frames in a roll (not roll speed, that's only affected by equip load).

Faith/Dark link: The spell class called hexes require both faith and int. Increasing the lower of faith and int increases your dark damage.

Endurance/Adaptability link: Increasing the lower of adaptability and endurance increases your natural poise. Poise affects the ability to withstand damage without staggering.
#20
Old 03-24-2014, 07:29 PM
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I rerolled a Knight and it's a massive upgrade over the Warrior. The broadsword he starts with is 1M times better than anything the Warrior can find in the first 6 hrs.
#21
Old 03-24-2014, 07:32 PM
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So far most of the bosses are pretty easy to beat by abusing their AI. Basically just press up against their bodies and strafe to the left in circles. Almost nothing they try to throw at you can connect. I had a really tough time with the Pursuer though, that prick.

I'm currently in Lost Bastille fighting the 3 sentinels. I've died a couple of times but I think I should be able to take them pretty soon. I may be over leveled (63 I think).

All in all a good game. I think it's very very similiar to the first one and the fanboys are really splitting hairs when they talk about how radically different it is. If you didn't like the first you will not like the second so don't bother.

ETA: So far no one has been able to prove conclusively that ADP has any effect on anything movement/roll related. It's basically like flushing points down the crapper it appears.

Last edited by Cubsfan; 03-24-2014 at 07:34 PM.
#22
Old 03-24-2014, 11:08 PM
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Well, we know for sure it has an effect on Estus drink speed (about .5 second difference between min/max) and of course natural poise. You're right that we haven't proven that it does anything with rolls.

Edit: According to the official guide, Lost Bastille is SL 55-65.

Last edited by Jragon; 03-24-2014 at 11:09 PM.
#23
Old 03-24-2014, 11:26 PM
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Don't go hollow: Dark Souls 2

I've got the guide too and I'd just like to add that it's well worth the money and is bookshelf quality just like the guide for the first one. I'm glad they made it look like the first guide so they look nicer together on the shelf. The maps are worth the money alone

Last edited by Cubsfan; 03-24-2014 at 11:27 PM.
#24
Old 03-25-2014, 12:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cubsfan View Post
I've got the guide too and I'd just like to add that it's well worth the money and is bookshelf quality just like the guide for the first one. I'm glad they made it look like the first guide so they look nicer together on the shelf. The maps are worth the money alone
The maps are nice (I try to go through an area blind the first time, then maybe look at it after beating a boss to see if there's any good items or secret areas I missed.)

But I'm upset that they seriously reduced the information regarding weapons.

The first one had all weapons with their base stats, AND all their upgrade paths. The one for Dark Souls 2 only gives base stats. It'd be nice to know what weapons scale better normal vs lightning vs fire, etc...
#25
Old 03-25-2014, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jragon View Post
Well, we know for sure it has an effect on Estus drink speed (about .5 second difference between min/max) and of course natural poise. You're right that we haven't proven that it does anything with rolls.
The consensus in the SA thread on the game is that while it doesn't visually change the rolls or speeds them up (that's equipment load) it does affect the number of invincibility frames on the roll.
There's a YouTube video of testing the same roll against the same wide swing from what appears to be a boss. Low Agility roll gets hit early in the roll, 80ish agility get clipped as they exit the roll, and 99 Agility rolls through the hit safely.

Fake ETA : ah, found it.

Also I got a big downer today. I thought the Steam store page said it came out March 25th. I've been all hopped up since yesterday, like a little kid. Long time since that happened for any game.
Fucken bassards, it's April 25th. Goddammit.
#26
Old 03-26-2014, 04:29 AM
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This game is pretty great. Also kind of long. I'm like 20 hours in and I just defeated my first old one. I'm going a little slow because I'm co-oping so obviously we have to do every area twice. That said, this game is pretty big.

To be fair, we've been hopping around a lot. We could have beaten the Bastille a lot earlier than we did, but it looked scary so we avoided it.

The game seems to be ramping difficulty pretty gradually. It's a lot more of a learning curve than the first game, which brick-walled you with the Taurus Demon pretty much immediately. Obviously everybody has their own personal opinion on which bosses are hard based on build and personal playstyle, but there definitely seems to be a natural progression of difficulty this time, even with levelling up.

I really like hexes, but I'm not sure about some of them. Great Resonant Soul, even at higher dark than lightning does about the same amount as my lightning spear. However, it takes 1k souls to cast and has fewer casts than lightning spear. Not worth it. I'm playing with other hexes to see what works. Dark and Resonant weapon are great spells for a spellsword character, though. I'm not sure how they compare to, say, Crystal Magic Weapon, but the damage increase is good. Especially Resonant Weapon which for 2k souls turns you into a wrecking machine.
#27
Old 03-29-2014, 11:11 AM
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More Stuff You Should Probably Know Before Jumpin In stuff I picked up from the SA thread (little in the way of spoilers, but best be careful I guess) :

About chests :
SPOILER:
Hitting chests with weapons destroys them AND the loot inside. Monsters swinging at them also do, so pull them away from the Incoming Shiny. Not sure how one's supposed to Mimic Check these days.


On falling from high places :
SPOILER:
Was percentage-based in DS1. Not true here - fall from X height, get X straight damage. Try Vitality


On Covenants :
SPOILER:
Sadly, there isn't a straight equivalent of the Nito covenant in this game, which even though it was janky as hell was probably my fave in DsK1 just on general concept. The new one that sort of works the same way is the one warned about earlier in this thread which makes *your* gameworld harder, not some poor random shmoe's.
There are now TWO equivalents of the Forest Cunters, which combined with the fact that being hollow is no defense against invasions any more is probably going to make life hell in those two particular zones. Playing offline through those parts works though.
Sunbros are back, dickwraiths and bluepolice too.


On soul memory :
SPOILER:
So this is apparently the mechanic regulating ganking in PvP - on top of your character's level every single soul you earn is tracked and added up ; with players with large disparities in Soul Memory being excluded from meeting (including in co-op, which is a bit sad). Important : the counter ticks up when you *earn* the souls, not when you use them. So if you die and lose your stain, whelp.[/quote]Speaking of co-op and PvP


SPOILER:
If you disconnect from the internet/quit the game while invading someone or getting invaded, you'll wind up on a shitlist that precludes you from co-op play at all, apparently forever. Also of note : there's apparently a miracle that heals everything in an area, friend or foe. Trolls be trolling by casting it during boss fights


About NG+
SPOILER:
Apparently From has changed its philosophy from "NG+ is there just to dick around with your uber stuff and try out the final boss gear for a laugh" to a more Diablo-esque "NG is to learn the game, the Real Dark Souls Begins in NG+" as not only do merchants sell more/different/better items in NG+ and ++, but some boss fights are noticeably different and the soul memory/pairing up mechanic is more relaxed. So, kind of like "real" Diablo was about Hell.


Finally, a guide-dang-it thing that's more of an actual spoiler. Not a HUGE one though, more like knowing about the Drakesword trick in DkS 1 :
SPOILER:
There's a spear weapon in the game that is utter crap at first glance, but if you hit a wall or something with it until it breaks, which takes a long time because it has high durability, the crappy bits fall off and it becomes a decent weapon with a unique moveset and infinite durability

Last edited by Idle Thoughts; 03-29-2014 at 07:04 PM.
#28
Old 03-29-2014, 05:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kobal2 View Post
About chests :
SPOILER:
Hitting chests with weapons destroys them AND the loot inside. Monsters swinging at them also do, so pull them away from the Incoming Shiny. Not sure how one's supposed to Mimic Check these days.
How to check for you-know-whats

SPOILER:
One hit won't break a chest. I guess if you have something crazy like a twinblade it might break it, but even a single swipe from my Claymore +7 doesn't break a chest.

Either way, mimics have slightly different mechanics now. The iron chest ones will eat you the second you open the chest. The wooden ones give you a couple seconds to dodge first so that it's not quite as big of a deal if you don't test it.


Quote:
On falling from high places :
SPOILER:
Was percentage-based in DS1. Not true here - fall from X height, get X straight damage. Try Vitality
You mean vigor, but HP is for chumps . Also, the cat ring helps for the couple areas you need to fall.

Quote:
On Covenants :
SPOILER:
Sadly, there isn't a straight equivalent of the Nito covenant in this game, which even though it was janky as hell was probably my fave in DsK1 just on general concept. The new one that sort of works the same way is the one warned about earlier in this thread which makes *your* gameworld harder, not some poor random shmoe's.
There are now TWO equivalents of the Forest Cunters, which combined with the fact that being hollow is no defense against invasions any more is probably going to make life hell in those two particular zones. Playing offline through those parts works though.
Sunbros are back, dickwraiths and bluepolice too.
I can confirm that doing the PvP areas is a complete pain. It's made up for, slightly, by the fact that you have a grace period after getting invaded. That and the areas are very, very tiny. But when it comes down to it, you can't take literally two steps in those areas without being invaded.

And forget co-oping there due to that. It's a shame too because those areas have nice bosses and at least one has a key that helps immensely with the real boss of the real area.

Last edited by Jragon; 03-29-2014 at 05:14 PM.
#29
Old 03-29-2014, 07:05 PM
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Moderator Note

Fixed your coding as I thought you might have meant it, Kobal.
#30
Old 03-29-2014, 07:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Idle Thoughts View Post
Fixed your coding as I thought you might have meant it, Kobal.
Yep, thank you !
#31
Old 03-29-2014, 10:51 PM
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Hmm, just realized something : the name of the/a place the game takes place is is Drangleic. That's more or less "Grand Ciel" inversed, meaning Large Sky in French.

What is it with Japanese game designers and French, anyway ? It pops up fricking everywhere and it never means a damn thing.
#32
Old 03-30-2014, 10:01 AM
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I've been messing around with the early areas using various classes. Starting a fresh, "official" run today as a Deprived. Psyched.
#33
Old 03-30-2014, 11:37 AM
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So how exactly does the no-respawn mechanic work, anyway ? Is it a zone-wide thing where you go from full zone to empty in one fateful chillaxing by the fire, or is there like a hidden counter per individual spawn and once you've killed *that* guy 20 times he and only he doesn't come back ?

Could you conceivably find a bonfire, kill a guy, rest, kill the guy, rest etc... and slowly but surely depopulate a zone one spawn at a time ?
#34
Old 03-30-2014, 08:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kobal2 View Post
So how exactly does the no-respawn mechanic work, anyway ? Is it a zone-wide thing where you go from full zone to empty in one fateful chillaxing by the fire, or is there like a hidden counter per individual spawn and once you've killed *that* guy 20 times he and only he doesn't come back ?

Could you conceivably find a bonfire, kill a guy, rest, kill the guy, rest etc... and slowly but surely depopulate a zone one spawn at a time ?
It's enemy-by-enemy. Yeah, if you wanted to be interminably bored you could camp the bonfire and clear a zone one enemy at a time, but I can't imagine how long that would take.
#35
Old 03-31-2014, 03:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by storyteller0910 View Post
I've been messing around with the early areas using various classes. Starting a fresh, "official" run today as a Deprived. Psyched.
Ouch.

Deprived is MUCH harder of a start this time around. But it is the easiest class to tweak to whatever you want, since it's the only one that starts at SL1, AND its overall low stats.

I finished my first play through last week as a Knight. Still wasn't thrilled about mixing sword and miracles. My Lightning Spears never did anywher NEAR as much damage as I saw pure Faith/Cleric or even mixed Sorcery/Miracle/Hex casters doing. It seems FromSoft increased the scaling on elemental damage and spells a LOT, but obviously at the cost of base damage, so it's a LOT less worth it to just "dabble" in spells in Dark Souls 2 than it was in the first one and Demon Souls.

Even Pyromancy is "nerfed." Because while it still doesn't have stat requirements like in 1, it's harder to upgrade your flame (you now need souls AND a rare upgrade material.) In addition, from what I've read, all fire damage* scales with Int and Faith, now (both weapons AND spells.)

I'm not sure of the specifics...I think it scales with whatever the greater of the two is. I don't think it's the lesser of the two, because I had some pyro spells going, and my Flame Swath averaged ~500 damage on enemies that weren't resistant to fire with a +10 Pyro Hand, and I had 22 Faith and 3 Int.

*In fact, all elemental damage scales with some stat, now. Fire is some mix of Int and/or Faith, Magic is Int (like in Dark Souls I,) Lightning is Faith (so it is a mix of Dark Souls I Divine and Lightning damages,) and Dark is like Fire, some mix of Faith and Int scaling.

And I think Bleed status effect scales with Dex, and I'm not sure if Poison scales with anything.

Last edited by bouv; 03-31-2014 at 03:36 PM.
#36
Old 04-07-2014, 06:27 AM
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Copy-pasting from the Something Awful thread, as it's informative (and I kinda don't want to go and dig it up when the game comes out on PC ) :

Quote:
Originally Posted by A goon
I see a lot of misconceptions about stats and scaling, thought I would take a stab at it:

Hexes and Dark Damage - Scales on the LOWER of INT or FTH. 6 INT / 30 FTH has the same scaling as 6 INT / 6 FTH.
Pyro and Fire Damage - Scales on the AVERAGE of INT and FTH. 6 INT / 30 FTH has the same scaling as 18 INT / 18 FTH.

For both Hexes/Dark and Pyro/Fire Soft Cap on damage scaling is at 30. The increase gets cut by 75% after 30 so unless you need INT or FTH for other purposes it's not worth it. Scaling is a much smaller part of the damage with Pyromancies so INT/FTH are not as important. It also means high FTH and INT players can benefit from pyromancy with less investment than hexes.


EVERYTHING ELSE (STR, DEX/Poison/Bleed, INT/Magic, FTH/Lighting)
Attack value is 57 at 10 STR, DEX, INT, or FTH. It goes up 1.3 pts per point from 10-20, 2.2 from 21-30, 3.8 from 31-40, 1.5 from 41-50, ~0.7 from 51-0.

The important thing to see here is that each point from 31-40 raises scaling at more than twice the rate of 10-30. The actual damage increase is proportional to this. Your attack value will be multiplied by a scaling factor based on the scaling E-S. Scaling is a range within each letter, so a fire infusion will still lower your other scalings even if the letters do not change. DEX scales at 60-65% of STR. While an A scaled weapon on STR might add 1.2x attack value, for DEX it will only add .7-.8. This means on weapons with mixed scaling you should raise STR to 40 first.

Fire, Dark, Magic, Lightning all offer the same bonus damage for the same scaling. I don't know if Bleed/Poison suffer from the reduced DEX scaling, but both employ radically different mechanics than the other attack types. They can be effective with good DEX, but require certain weapons/builds/strategies. Unless you're willing to research or to trust someone's advice it's best to stick with a more straight-up infusion.


What you should take away from this:
(1) For Hexes/Dark, get 30 INT and 30 FTH ASAP. For Pyro/Fire, who cares? For everything else, your priority should be to get SOMETHING to 40, I don't care what, probably STR.
(2) There are few reasons to take a stat over 40 - and the only reason to take a stat over 50 is so you can power stance something ridiculous and something else ridiculous.

The final note, scaling does not outpace elemental infusions as in DS1. 40 FTH will do just fine with minimum STR for a weapon and lightning infuse, even better with a weapon buff. Similarly, Hex/Sorcery players should use Dark/Magic weapons. Maybe have a regular, Raw, or Fire weapon in your pack for the rare resistant critter.
#37
Old 04-08-2014, 09:51 AM
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For those not aware, there is a 1.03 patch coming soon.

Here is a link from Reddit that translates the original Japanese link.
And for those that can read Japanese, here's the original FromSoft link.

Highlights include:
  • Moonlight Greatsword can no longer be enchanted and buffed. Attack animation has been slowed / adjusted.
  • Reduced damage from the Ring of Thorns and Ring of the Old Sun.
  • Increased casting time and decreased damage for Wrath of Gods.
  • Increased defense for Lucatiel, Benhart, and Manscorpion Tark.

I found another Reddit Post that lists bug-fixes and some "back-end"/functionality changes:
  • Successful Online coop with white / small sigh stone will now revive you back to human.
  • Failing to create multiplayer session no longer disables use of online items such as white soap stone.
  • Response time of start menu / bonfire menu has been improved.
  • Summoned players no longer fall under the ground at Earthen Peak.

I'm excited about ALL of the functionality/bug fixes (especially the always going human after a co-op and improving the menu lag on the PS3.)

The changes in the various damage/spell casts/etc... I'm about 50/50 on. Yeah, it sucks that things like Chaos Storm take longer to cast and might do too much damage, but there's a LTO of things in Dark Souls 2 that are much more powerful than their Dark Souls I equivalent, so overall I tink it's good.

ESPECIALLY increasing those damned NPC defenses. Since there's achievements/trophies for doing NPC quests, which REQUIRE summoning them for X battles and having them live, it's sorely needed.

Now, of only they can improve the NPC path-finding. Simple enemies can traverse three walkways and two ladders to get me from across a map, but the NPC Phantoms have a hard time if I go down a ladder and run to a fog door too quickly
#38
Old 04-08-2014, 10:14 AM
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Here's a translation by someone who can read Japanese and didn't use Google Translate:

http://gamefaqs.com/boards/69333...ls-ii/68980039
#39
Old 04-24-2014, 06:08 PM
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It's finally here on the master race gaming platformPC ! 7 minutes to launch, strap in !
#40
Old 04-24-2014, 07:34 PM
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Have a good time, PC gamers.

I finished it last week; about a third of the way through my second play through, but it's not holding my interest quite as much the second time around. Not sure why - I think I got through about six runs of DS1 before I got a little bored.
#41
Old 04-24-2014, 07:54 PM
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Word the port isn't as good as that Durante dude said it was. Maybe that's just folks on the internet being folks on the internet.
#42
Old 04-24-2014, 07:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Palooka View Post
Word the port isn't as good as that Durante dude said it was. Maybe that's just folks on the internet being folks on the internet.
Everyone on NeoGaff agrees it's as good as Durante said. Not only that but Durante released a new modding tool for it. Makes it look AMAZING.

There do appear to be a few issues though. For some reason it doesn't like it when you are connecting to your monitor via HDMI. Japanese Devs. There's a fix for it already, thank fully, but hopefully the devs fix these issues quickly.

Last edited by Kinthalis; 04-24-2014 at 07:58 PM.
#43
Old 04-24-2014, 08:01 PM
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I like how no one with a VAC ban is able to play online. Nuts to those douchebags.
#44
Old 04-25-2014, 12:01 AM
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Just beat it for the first time. Lots of hours spent on this. Just a knight typical melee but I don't have Xbox live so never got invaded or ever able to summon help. Really struggled with a few of the lat areas. Beat the boss with a large club +10.

All in all great game. Guide book was awesome too.
#45
Old 04-25-2014, 07:58 AM
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My God I can't get past the first area! Stupid hippo.
#46
Old 04-25-2014, 09:10 AM
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Hippo?
#47
Old 04-25-2014, 09:19 AM
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^ ^ ^ The cyclops ogre things in Things Betwixt. ^ ^ ^
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinthalis View Post
My God I can't get past the first area! Stupid hippo.
You don't need to fight him...in fact, you really aren't supposed to right now.

I think the purpose of the hippo-ogres (yes, there's more later in the tutorial area,) is to make people think they're like the Asylum Demon, and initially look hard, but can be beaten quite easily. But nope!

"Oh, you thought the ol' 'stay behind and attack the butt' maneuver would work? Well, this guy literally just flops onto his back to crush you."

Last edited by bouv; 04-25-2014 at 09:20 AM.
#48
Old 04-25-2014, 09:22 AM
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There's this Hippo-like creature In the first area that is pwning me something fierce. I think I got his pattern figured out. 2 attacks, then he falls. But I'm so awkward, I usually miss hitting him when he's down, or I get too close and he slams me down when he falls, or I don't manage to evade his attacks.
#49
Old 04-25-2014, 09:24 AM
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Wait, I don't have to attack him? But, there's no where else to go.
#50
Old 04-25-2014, 09:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinthalis View Post
Wait, I don't have to attack him? But, there's no where else to go.
There totally is. I drew a crude map:
http://i.imgur.com/Q3RpbQG.png

Instead of going up and to the left to the ogre, go straight over the wooden bridge and into the house with the old women.

I mean...you don't even have any weapons or equipment yet, right? You haven't even made your character...in the house is when you choose your class, appearance, etc...
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