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#1
Old 06-13-2015, 12:24 AM
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Why do people from Ethiopia/Eritrea look different to those from neighboring SubSaharan countries?

I live next to a relatively large Ethiopian and Eritrean migrant community and as someone whove had many African friends throughout my life, I realise most Ethiopians and Eritreans i met looked "different". Im just wondering why this is so? Im not discounting African diversity but it seems strange that Ethiopians seem to look so radically different when compared to their East African neighbors such as Kenya and Tanzania. Ive always thought there should be regional commonalities when it came to phenotype. For example most west Africans such as Nigerians and Ghanaians look similar. My friend told me Ethiopia has never been colonised by a foreign power.

Kenya and Ethiopia share a border

Kenyan Lupita Nyongo

http://i.imgur.com/EEXwQmp.jpg

Kenyan president

http://i.imgur.com/DnnEADz.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/NvtNDfQ.jpg
kenyan model

http://i.imgur.com/1cbJGTL.jpg


Ethiopian/Eritrean people


http://i.imgur.com/wYmJcbu.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/jlwIbJk.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/ZpF5CvA.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/CVDdijD.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/WLg80XH.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/HnaDBKP.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/t0NkLcs.jpg

Last edited by Final Legacy; 06-13-2015 at 12:26 AM.
#2
Old 06-13-2015, 02:13 AM
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You may want to examine your assumptions about distances and terrain. It looks to me like it's quite similar to Northern v. Southern Europe when it comes to both those factors.
#3
Old 06-13-2015, 02:23 AM
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We kinda did this (fairly) recently.

Why do Somalians Look So Distinctive?

Ultimate conclusion - yeah, there's a North East African "look" ... like there's a Scandinavian "look" and a Mediterranean "look" and ...
#4
Old 06-13-2015, 05:53 AM
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Originally Posted by naita View Post
You may want to examine your assumptions about distances and terrain. It looks to me like it's quite similar to Northern v. Southern Europe when it comes to both those factors.
I don't think they're even comparable. Whilst the North-South divide has more to do with minor skin tone differences, with Ethiopians, it's like they're facial features are alien to the rest of subsaharan Africa/East Africa.
There were times I mistaken an Ethiopian workmate for an indian

Last edited by Final Legacy; 06-13-2015 at 05:58 AM.
#5
Old 06-13-2015, 06:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Final Legacy View Post
I don't think they're even comparable. Whilst the North-South divide has more to do with minor skin tone differences, with Ethiopians, it's like they're facial features are alien to the rest of subsaharan Africa/East Africa.
There were times I mistaken an Ethiopian workmate for an indian
The point is these differences have arisen and been maintained despite geographical closeness. What kind of explanation are you looking for exactly, and did you read that other thread?
#6
Old 06-13-2015, 07:02 AM
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In particular, Ramira's cite from fairly early in:

Quote:
Originally Posted by PLOS
Genetic studies have identified substantial non-African admixture in the Horn of Africa (HOA). In the most recent genomic studies, this non-African ancestry has been attributed to admixture with Middle Eastern populations during the last few thousand years ... To investigate this further, we generated new genome-wide SNP data for a Yemeni population sample and merged these new data with published genome-wide genetic data from the HOA and a broad selection of surrounding populations ... After partitioning the SNP data into African and non-African origin chromosome segments, we found support for a distinct African (Ethiopic) ancestry and a distinct non-African (Ethio-Somali) ancestry in HOA populations ... The non-African ancestry in the HOA, which is primarily attributed to a novel Ethio-Somali inferred ancestry component, is significantly differentiated from all neighboring non-African ancestries in North Africa, the Levant, and Arabia.
So basically, science says 'yes, there are observable genetic differences in that general area (Horn of Africa, not restricted to one specific country), attributable to some population East of there, and outside Africa, not sure where.'
#7
Old 06-13-2015, 09:22 AM
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Social and geographical features all play a part.

Egypt, for example, has millennia of dominating (attempting to dominate) the Nubians to the south, who are Ethiopian in appearance; yet there has been a distinctive visible difference between Egyptians and Nubians and Egyptians and Arabs. Similarly, Hitler and his ilk played up the distinction between that German ("Aryan") master race and the Slavs next door who were of course, designed to be the drudgework salves of the master race (among other bizarre notions). The pygmies of central Africa have remained distinct from surrounding normal-sized people.

Just because ethnic groups are next door to each other, does not mean they will blend. The Ethiopians, Somalis, and Sudanese, I assume, are a different off-shoot of early humans just like the bushmen and pygmies. One item I read (Jared Diamond?) discussing early human migration said there was a much larger genetic diversity across the continent of Africa than between all the groups which migrated out of Africa.

Also keep in mind geography and climate. An ethnic/racial type usually has a lifestyle - the people who have a way of life adapted for the fertile plains of Kenya are less likely to be able to move into and adapt to the relative desert conditions of the northwest Horn of Africa - certainly not successfully enough to displace the people already living there.
#8
Old 06-13-2015, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by md2000 View Post
The Ethiopians, Somalis, and Sudanese, I assume, are a different off-shoot of early humans just like the bushmen and pygmies.
Why would you assume that? Did you read the post immediately before yours?

Plus, "offshoot of early humans" is, scientifically, a terrible way to describe the other groups you mention. "Early humans" is a term that often means the earliest forms of the genus Homo. But even if you were talking about H. sapiens, one would not describe those lineages as originating in the "early" part of our species, which is 200K years old.

Last edited by John Mace; 06-13-2015 at 11:03 AM.
#9
Old 06-13-2015, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by md2000 View Post
Social and geographical features all play a part.

Egypt, for example, has millennia of dominating (attempting to dominate) the Nubians to the south, who are Ethiopian in appearance; yet there has been a distinctive visible difference between Egyptians and Nubians and Egyptians and Arabs. Similarly, Hitler and his ilk played up the distinction between that German ("Aryan") master race and the Slavs next door who were of course, designed to be the drudgework salves of the master race (among other bizarre notions). The pygmies of central Africa have remained distinct from surrounding normal-sized people.

Just because ethnic groups are next door to each other, does not mean they will blend. The Ethiopians, Somalis, and Sudanese, I assume, are a different off-shoot of early humans just like the bushmen and pygmies. One item I read (Jared Diamond?) discussing early human migration said there was a much larger genetic diversity across the continent of Africa than between all the groups which migrated out of Africa.

Also keep in mind geography and climate. An ethnic/racial type usually has a lifestyle - the people who have a way of life adapted for the fertile plains of Kenya are less likely to be able to move into and adapt to the relative desert conditions of the northwest Horn of Africa - certainly not successfully enough to displace the people already living there.
You do realise Ethiopia/Eritrea has been called the roof of Africa because 70 percent of Africa's mountain ranges are found in Ethiopia. But they also have deserts and I notice those who come from the highlands are a lot lighter than those who come from the low land desserts.

Afar...these people live in the lowland desert
http://i.imgur.com/qQTXEhg.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/lXTjCg0.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/hGp4AOV.jpg


Tigray people, they are a highlander group. They are a lot more lighter

http://i.imgur.com/Bg8FUP9.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/6EAVSK7.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/qUufmN3.jpg

Last edited by Final Legacy; 06-13-2015 at 01:00 PM.
#10
Old 06-13-2015, 06:10 PM
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It's not the Ethiopians who are out of place, it's the Kenyans. One theory is that the darker-skinned, Bantu-speaking groups who now live across Sub-Saharan Africa originated in West Africa, around Cameroon. After agriculture was developed in that area, the population exploded and they began spreading across the continent.
#11
Old 06-13-2015, 07:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Final Legacy View Post
I live next to a relatively large Ethiopian and Eritrean migrant community and as someone whove had many African friends throughout my life, I realise most Ethiopians and Eritreans i met looked "different". Im just wondering why this is so? Im not discounting African diversity but it seems strange that Ethiopians seem to look so radically different when compared to their East African neighbors such as Kenya and Tanzania. Ive always thought there should be regional commonalities when it came to phenotype. For example most west Africans such as Nigerians and Ghanaians look similar. My friend told me Ethiopia has never been colonised by a foreign power.

Kenya and Ethiopia share a border

Kenyan Lupita Nyongo

http://i.imgur.com/EEXwQmp.jpg

Kenyan president

http://i.imgur.com/DnnEADz.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/NvtNDfQ.jpg
kenyan model

http://i.imgur.com/1cbJGTL.jpg
Um that third link is a picture of Kofi Annan. And Ethiopia is a country roughly twice the size of Texas with over 90 million people in it (God knows how many ethnic groups/languages). Of course you will find groups of people who both resemble Kenyans and don't resemble Kenyans (Kenya being slightly smaller then Texas with ~45 million people).

If you do the search you will quickly find that Northern Kenyans look remarkable similar to Southern Ethiopians, and that Northern Ethiopians look similar to Eritreans, who in turn look similar to East Sudanese, who look similar to Southern Egyptians, etc..

Last edited by orcenio; 06-13-2015 at 07:02 PM.
#12
Old 06-13-2015, 07:09 PM
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Why do people from Ethiopia/Eritrea look different to those from neighboring ...

nm

Last edited by even sven; 06-13-2015 at 07:10 PM.
#13
Old 06-13-2015, 07:15 PM
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Oh and the main reason as to why people from Ethiopia/Eritrea/Somalia look different to those from other SubSaharan countries could be that SubSaharans aren't identical (not in culture, nor language, nor history, nor ethnicity).

I make this mistake all the time, but Africa is not a country. It's really due to a legacy of our own western history that we always refer to Africa as "Africa." It's simply easier for us (westerners) to group everyone from the "black areas" of Africa as one people/group/etc when, in reality, that is the furthest from the case.

Really the only thing that Africans all share is the recent history of being carved up and colonized by their European neighbours to the north (who kinda liked doing this 'round the globe)
#14
Old 06-13-2015, 07:17 PM
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As mentioned in the Somali thread, there are dozens of distinct African "looks" that people familiar with those populations can easily recognize. If you lived in an area with a lot of South Sudanese, you'd probably be able to easily say "Oh, Bob is the Dinka-looking guy over there."

There are plenty of lighter skinned and fine featured Africans out there, there just don't happen to be large Mbororo (or whatever) communities like there are Ethiopian in the US.
#15
Old 06-13-2015, 11:08 PM
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Originally Posted by orcenio View Post
Um that third link is a picture of Kofi Annan. And Ethiopia is a country roughly twice the size of Texas with over 90 million people in it (God knows how many ethnic groups/languages). Of course you will find groups of people who both resemble Kenyans and don't resemble Kenyans (Kenya being slightly smaller then Texas with ~45 million people).

If you do the search you will quickly find that Northern Kenyans look remarkable similar to Southern Ethiopians, and that Northern Ethiopians look similar to Eritreans, who in turn look similar to East Sudanese, who look similar to Southern Egyptians, etc..
Interesting. I was doing a little research when I found found out that Ethiopian with those narrow features practiced featured based slavery and discriminated against Africans with those broader features. Never knew these sorts of things happened in Africa

Quote:
Racism in Ethiopia has traditionally been directed at the country's Nilotic ethnic minorities, as well as other individuals with similarly pronounced "Negroid" physical features. Collectively, these groups are locally known as Shanqella or barya, derogatory terms originally denoting slave descent, irrespective of the individual's family history.[22][23]

Historically, the Shanqella constituted most of the slave labour in the ruling local Afro-Asiatic societies.[24] The Abyssinians (Habesha highlanders) were also noted as having actively hunted the Shanqella during the 19th century.[25] Following the abolition of the slave trade in the 1940s, the freed Shanqella and barya were typically employed as unskilled labour.[24] Racial discrimination against the barya or Shanqella communities in Ethiopia still exists, affecting access to political and social opportunities and resources.[22]

Traditionally, racism against perceived barya transcended class and remained in effect regardless of social position or parentage. As a result, former President of Ethiopia Mengistu Haile Mariam was virtually absent from the country's controlled press in the first few weeks of his seizure of power. He also consciously avoided making public appearances, here too on the belief that his "Negroid" appearance would not sit well with the country's deposed political elite, particularly the Amhara.[26] By contrast, Mengistu's rise to prominence was hailed by the southern Shanqella groups as a personal victory, with one of their own having made good.[23]

Although other populations in Ethiopia have faced varying degrees of discrimination, little of that adversity has by contrast been on account of racial differences. It is instead more typically rooted in disparities in class and competition for economic status. The often socio-economically disadvantaged Oromo and Gurage are thus not considered by the highlander groups as being racially barya, owing to their similar physical features and common Afro-Asiatic ancestry.[24]

In terms of traditional perceptions, the Shanqella likewise racially contrast themselves from the Afro-Asiatic populations. The Anywaa (Anuak) Nilotes of southern Ethiopia consequently regard the Amhara, Oromo, Tigray and other Afro-Asiatic groups collectively as gaala in contradistinction to themselves.[27]

Last edited by Final Legacy; 06-13-2015 at 11:11 PM.
#16
Old 06-14-2015, 12:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Final Legacy View Post
Interesting. I was doing a little research when I found found out that Ethiopian with those narrow features practiced featured based slavery and discriminated against Africans with those broader features. Never knew these sorts of things happened in Africa
There was slavery in Western Europe into the 19th century (usually as in that case, but not always, slaves brought back from colonies when their masters returned home); while this page looks very new-agey (actually they're zoroastrians), their article on the barbary slaves and references provided may be of interest. European-on-European slavery in Western Europe was still taking place in the 16th century (see that same article on the barbary slaves).

Last edited by Nava; 06-14-2015 at 12:41 AM.
#17
Old 06-14-2015, 02:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Final Legacy View Post
I don't think they're even comparable. Whilst the North-South divide has more to do with minor skin tone differences, with Ethiopians, it's like they're facial features are alien to the rest of subsaharan Africa/East Africa.
There were times I mistaken an Ethiopian workmate for an indian
Absolutely wrong. The Roman Empire was multi-ethnic and included Africans, Asians and other Euros. Spain also was occupied by Moors for about 600 years as well as being another part of the Roman Empire. So the genetic pool in southern Europe is very diverse.
#18
Old 06-14-2015, 02:25 AM
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Commerce and war. Big influx of Greek, Turk, Persian blood from ~200-1000 C.E. C.F. Himyarite Kingdom. I'm pretty sure that the Orthodox/Coptic evangelism (such as it was) also played a part. In other words, those nations had lucrative trade at that time and exchanged African/Caucasian DNA as well as spice, saints, slaves, and fabric.
#19
Old 06-14-2015, 03:41 AM
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Omg all these PC non-sense from people who have no idea what they are talking about.

Simple aanswer is, they are different. Somalis and Ethiopians are highland Africans, they are Afroasiatic, suggesting a different origin from Bantu-speakers.
#20
Old 06-14-2015, 04:57 AM
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Doing more research today. This only covers Ethiopians. I wouldnt know much about Somalis

Quote:
Ethiopian DNA studies and sundries.



So, a little reading turned up that there was a big back migration across the Red Sea into Africa from the Arab peninsula back some time in the stone age. I’ve seen one paper estimate the earliest back migration into Africa at 30,000 years, (of mt DNA type M).


It’s a common misconception that Europeans have a similar skull shape and facial features because Ethiopia was the presumed exit point for humans leaving Africa. In fact, if this were true, all the people of the world would look Caucasian, and they obviously don’t. The original people that left Africa would not have resembled any modern ethnic group of people, they had Mongoloid, Caucasoid and Australoid characteristics. The modern racial appearances are all relatively modern, when you go back past 40,000 years none of them exist in their modern form. The Caucasian appearance of some Ethiopians is in a large part due to their Eruasian ancestry.


Mt DNA type ‘M’ is thought to have originated somewhere in the Pakistan area about 64,000 years ago, and migrated back to Africa bout 30,000 years ago. An expansion of the Semitic speaking Neolithic farmers from about 9,000 years ago also accounts for some Caucasian ancestry. This expansion took a wide variety of near Eastern Mt DNA and Y chromosome haplotypes into the Horn of Africa. There has also been some historical population movement into the horn of Africa since the advent of Islam



Anyway, the gist of these collected DNA studies is that Ethiopians are about 40% Caucasian, and are genetically a little more closely related to Mediterranean Caucasian groups like Berbers and Arabs than Western Africans, as is shown by this twig map. The actual amount of admixture varies from one group to another, but 40% is the average of all these samples with the Tigray and Amhara ethnic groups, collectively known as the Habeshas(Tigray, Amhara, Tigrengna) recording as much as 60% non SSA admixture.

There is a Y chromosome study here that goes into more detail.

http://imgur.com/E3dDNE3








“Notably, 62% of the Ethiopians fall in the first cluster, which encompasses the majority of the Jews, Norwegians and Armenians, indicating that placement of these individuals in a ‘Black’ cluster would be an inaccurate reflection of the genetic structure. Only 24% of the Ethiopians are placed in the cluster with the Bantu and most of the Afro-Caribbeans.”


(Passarino et al. 1998)

A tigray woman

http://i.imgur.com/ylLzGhK.jpg
“On the basis of historical, linguistic, and genetic data, it has been suggested that the Ethiopian population has been strongly affected by Caucasoid migrations since Neolithic times. On the basis of autosomal polymorphic loci, it has been estimated that 60% of the Ethiopian gene pool has an African origin, whereas ~40% is of Caucasoid derivation…. Our Ethiopian sample also lacks the sY81-G allele, which was associated with 86% and 69% of Senegalese and mixed-African YAP+ chromosomes, respectively. This suggests that male-mediated gene flow from Niger-Congo speakers to the Ethiopian population was probably very limited … Caucasoid gene flow into the Ethiopian gene pool occurred predominantly through males. Conversely, the Niger-Congo contribution to the Ethiopian population occurred mainly through females.*“


(Poloni et al. 1997)





Approximately 10 miles separate the Horn of Africa from the Arabian Peninsula at Bab-el-Mandeb (the Gate of Tears). Both historic and archaeological evidence indicate tight cultural connections, over millennia, between these two regions. High-resolution phylogenetic analysis of 270 Ethiopian and 115 Yemeni mitochondrial DNAs was performed in a worldwide context, to explore gene flow across the Red and Arabian Seas. Nine distinct subclades, including three newly defined ones, were found to characterize entirely the variation of Ethiopian and Yemeni L3 lineages. Both Ethiopians and Yemenis contain an almost-equal proportion of Eurasian-specific M and N and African-specific lineages and therefore cluster together in a multidimensional scaling plot between Near Eastern and sub-Saharan African populations. Phylogeographic identification of potential founder haplotypes revealed that approximately one-half of haplogroup L0-L5 lineages in Yemenis have close or matching counterparts in southeastern Africans, compared with a minor share in Ethiopians. Newly defined clade L6, the most frequent haplogroup in Yemenis, showed no close matches among 3,000 African samples. These results highlight the complexity of Ethiopian and Yemeni genetic heritage and are consistent with the introduction of maternal lineages into the South Arabian gene pool from different source populations of East Africa. A high proportion of Ethiopian lineages, significantly more abundant in the northeast of that country, trace their western Eurasian origin in haplogroup N through assorted gene flow at different times and involving different source populations.


(Toomas Kivisild et al.) Human Biology 75.2 (2003) 293-300




Genetic Variation at Apolipoprotein E Locus in Ethiopia: An E5 Variant Corresponds to Two Different Mutant Alleles: E*5 (Glu212Lys) and E*5 (Gln204Lys; Cys112Arg) R. Scacchi et al.


“Non sub-Saharan African samples are all grouped together…with…the Ethiopian Amharic sample [on the Y-chromosome]. Ethiopians are not statistically differentiated from the Egyptian and Tunisian samples, in agreement with their linguistic affiliation with the Afro-Asiatic family.”
The occurrence of E*5 212 and E*5 204 alleles in two populations of the Mediterranean basin (Turkey and Italy) but not in West Africans can be explained by taking into account that the Ethiopian gene pool was estimated to be >40% of Caucasoid derivation (Cavalli-Sforza et al. 1994). In addition, more recent phylogenetic analysis based on classical protein polymorphism (Tartaglia et al. 1996) and Y-chromosome sequence variation (Underhill et al. 2000) showed that Ethiopians appear to be distinct from Africans and more closely associated with populations of the Mediterranean basin.


(Scacchi et al. 2003)
Though present-day Ethiopia is a land of great ethnic diversity, the majority of Ethiopians speak different Semitic, Cushitic, and Omotic languages that belong to the Afro-Asiatic linguistic phylum. Maternal lineages of Semitic- (Amharic, Tigrinya, and Gurage) and Cushitic- (Oromo and Afar) speaking populations studied here reveal that their mtDNA pool is a nearly equal composite of sub-Saharan and western Eurasian lineages. This finding, consistent with classic genetic-marker studies (Cavalli-Sforza 1997) and previous mtDNA results, is also in agreement with a similarly high proportion of western Asian Y chromosomes in Ethiopians (Passarino et al. 1998; Semino et al. 2002), which supports the view (Richards et al. 2003) that the observed admixture between sub-Saharan African and, most probably, western Asian ancestors of the Ethiopian populations applies to their gene pool in general.


(Am. J. Hum. Genet., 75:000, 2004)


“The present composition of the Ethiopian population is the result of a complex and extensive intermixing of different peoples of North African, Near and Middle Eastern, and south-Saharan origin. The two main groups inhabiting the country are the Amhar, and the Oromo, the most important group among the Cushitic people. … The genetic distance analysis showed the separation between African and non-African populations, with the Amhara and Oromo located in an intermediate position.”


(De Stefano et al. 2002)


East African groups, such as Ethiopians and Somalis, have great genetic resemblance to Caucasians and are clearly intermediate between sub-Saharan Africans and Caucasians [5]. The existence of such intermediate groups should not, however, overshadow the fact that the greatest genetic structure that exists in the human population occurs at the racial level.


Most recently, Wilson et al. [2] studied 354 individuals from 8 populations deriving from Africa (Bantus, Afro-Caribbeans and Ethiopians), Europe/Mideast (Norwegians, Ashkenazi Jews and Armenians), Asia (Chinese) and Pacific Islands (Papua New Guineans). Their study was based on cluster analysis using 39 microsatellite loci. Consistent with previous studies, they obtained evidence of four clusters representing the major continental(racial) divisions described above as African, Caucasian, Asian, and Pacific Islander. The one population in their analysis that was seemingly not clearly classified on continental grounds was the Ethiopians, who clustered more into the Caucasian group. But it is known that African populations with close contact with Middle East populations, including Ethiopians and North Africans, have had significant admixture from Middle Eastern (Caucasian) groups, and are thus more closely related to Caucasians [14].


Categorization of humans in biomedical research: genes, race and disease
Neil Risch,1,2 Esteban Burchard,3 Elad Ziv,3 and Hua Tang4


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Related
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In "Ancient Egypt"
Mt DNA Haplotype U6 study
In "Anthropology"
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In "Anthropology"
March 4, 200832 Replies
https://mathildasanthropologyblog.wo...sian-africans/

Last edited by Final Legacy; 06-14-2015 at 05:00 AM.
#21
Old 06-14-2015, 05:26 AM
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Admixture results:

Tigray/Amhara/Afar are Ethiopian ethnic groups
http://i.imgur.com/AaZ1x6S.jpg

Last edited by Final Legacy; 06-14-2015 at 05:26 AM.
#22
Old 06-14-2015, 07:14 AM
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Originally Posted by sonder999 View Post
Omg all these PC non-sense from people who have no idea what they are talking about.



Simple aanswer is, they are different. Somalis and Ethiopians are highland Africans, they are Afroasiatic, suggesting a different origin from Bantu-speakers.

Well, sure. But it's not like Ethiopians are unique in this regard. Africa is holds the vast majority of humanity's genetic diversity.

The Bantu expansion was a big deal for Central Africa and crowded out local indigenous groups, but it definitely didn't turn the entire continent into a sea of generic Bantu people except for Ethiopia.

Those indigenous groups are often still around, as are other a number of groups of African origin that are as different from each other as a Swede is different than a Thai. Add in continuous contact with the Middle East and the Mediterranean (and things like Madagascar's settlement by people from Borneo), and you get a hugely diverse continent.
#23
Old 06-14-2015, 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted by sonder999 View Post
Omg all these PC non-sense from people who have no idea what they are talking about.

Simple aanswer is, they are different. Somalis and Ethiopians are highland Africans, they are Afroasiatic, suggesting a different origin from Bantu-speakers.
How about specifying which previous answers are nonsense?

And "they are different" is not an answer to "why are they different".
#24
Old 06-14-2015, 08:54 AM
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Originally Posted by naita View Post
How about specifying which previous answers are nonsense?

And "they are different" is not an answer to "why are they different".
It is perhaps worth knowing the poster also believes it is "PC" to tell him his worries that a certain car type can make him look gay are very silly to be polite.

the quality of the intervention's logic and information can be understood better.
#25
Old 06-14-2015, 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Final Legacy View Post
I don't think they're even comparable. Whilst the North-South divide has more to do with minor skin tone differences, with Ethiopians, it's like they're facial features are alien to the rest of subsaharan Africa/East Africa.
There were times I mistaken an Ethiopian workmate for an indian
There's not necessarily a direct correlation between the amount of outward differences between two populations and the amount of genetic variation causing it. Also, doing this 'by eye' may be very subjective - like trying to compare accents - your own perception significantly biases your subjective measurement of 'difference'
#26
Old 06-15-2015, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by orcenio View Post
Oh and the main reason as to why people from Ethiopia/Eritrea/Somalia look different to those from other SubSaharan countries could be that SubSaharans aren't identical (not in culture, nor language, nor history, nor ethnicity).

I make this mistake all the time, but Africa is not a country. It's really due to a legacy of our own western history that we always refer to Africa as "Africa." It's simply easier for us (westerners) to group everyone from the "black areas" of Africa as one people/group/etc when, in reality, that is the furthest from the case.

Really the only thing that Africans all share is the recent history of being carved up and colonized by their European neighbours to the north (who kinda liked doing this 'round the globe)
Right. The question in the OP is very similar to asking why Swedes don't look the same as Greeks. They're all Europeans, right?
#27
Old 06-15-2015, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Final Legacy View Post
Doing more research today. This only covers Ethiopians. I wouldnt know much about Somalis
DNA haplogroup research is quite interesting, but it's also interesting that haplogroups don't really map up well to traditional concepts of "race". For example, my own y-haplogroup, R1b, is is common in Spain, France, and the British Isles, but is also quite common in Cameroon! By contrast, haplogroup E, which is mostly found in Africa, was (as north-African subtype E1b1b) possessed by Lyndon B. Johnson, Napoleon, the Wright Brothers, and a well-known racist German dictator. It's quite possible that the paternal ancestor of the Wright brothers entered what is now England as a Roman soldier of Berber or Egyptian background who was himself far more closely related to cousins in sub-Saharan Africa than he was, say, to a Viking.
#28
Old 06-27-2015, 09:43 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2015
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robert_columbia View Post
Right. The question in the OP is very similar to asking why Swedes don't look the same as Greeks. They're all Europeans, right?
The thing is, even tho most Europeans are diverse in looks, they still look somewhat related. Not to mention usually in Europe, theres a gradual change in phenotype as you move from one location to another. Whilst in East Africa,the change is very drastic as you saw with the kenyan-Ethiopian comparison. These people are only seperated by a border yet they look completely different.

Oromo Ethiopian
http://i.imgur.com/nQdIyFg.jpg

Kenyan Luo
http://i.imgur.com/dYwrAs7.jpg


Compare that to a German and A french
http://i.imgur.com/QzV23ne.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/A72rsJ3.jpg
#29
Old 06-27-2015, 01:03 PM
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Posts: 19,401
Well, Europe doesn't have anywhere near the genetic diversity found in Africa. It's a seriously diverse place. Your average American just doesn't see a lot of it, probably because we don't meet that many Africans from various parts of the continent.

It's not really a bright line between Ethiopia and everywhere else. Ethiopia itself is very diverse, and other areas near Ethiopia are also diverse. And that level of diversity is common. In the small town I lived in in Cameroon, maybe a dozen ethnic groups with origins from Senegal to Sudan lived together.
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