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#1
Old 07-29-2015, 12:19 AM
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Does anyone else enjoy Wil Wheaton's Tabletop web show?

When I stay up later in the summer(I'm a teacher), I find that end up watching Tabletop on youtube quite a bit. It's a show created by Wil Wheaton and Felicia Day. Wheaton is in every episode, while she appears quite often.

Basically, they get people together and play board games. It's a lot of fun, the production value is really nice, and it is more fun than it sounds.

I have discovered some new games from the show and it's a lot of fun to watch other people play games.

Anyone else enjoy it?
#2
Old 07-29-2015, 01:17 AM
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I generally enjoy the show. But it's controversial in the gaming community.
#3
Old 07-29-2015, 06:43 AM
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I like it but it depends on the game and the mix of guests. I have stopped episodes part way through if I found I didn't care for one or the other. The RPG spin off I couldn't get into.
#4
Old 07-29-2015, 07:02 AM
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Generally favorable, but as Quimby says, depends on the game / guests.

The main controversy as far as I know is there was a serious game rule mistake (not a minor one - everybody makes those). When people pointed it out, Wil blamed his producer. That didn't sit well with folks.

Brian
#5
Old 07-29-2015, 07:53 AM
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I was thinking of checking it out. I like Wil and Felicia although his attempt at a talk show was pretty bad.
#6
Old 07-29-2015, 11:47 AM
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I enjoy it. It's a fun way to discover new games. Some games/episodes are better than others, but it definitely seems like they are having fun and not taking it too seriously.

Also, I could watch Felicia Day all day (ha!). Major nerd crush.
#7
Old 07-29-2015, 11:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N9IWP View Post
The main controversy as far as I know is there was a serious game rule mistake (not a minor one - everybody makes those). When people pointed it out, Wil blamed his producer. That didn't sit well with folks.
I've never seen the show but they're not playing for money or prizes or anything, right? Just 4-6 people p[laying a board game?

So... uhh... who really cares if they flubbed a rule, even a major one or who gets the blame for skimming the booklet?
#8
Old 07-29-2015, 12:42 PM
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I love the trophies the winners get. I can't say they set the tone perfectly, because they come at the end, but they're just perfect.
#9
Old 07-29-2015, 01:24 PM
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I didn't see the episode in question, but I think the mistake was enough to change the flavor of the game. Let's say they played chess where you rolled a die and that determined which piece you can move. The viewer may think the game is too random, where the actual game is nothing of the sort.

I don't think it was that bad though. But many game players are sticklers for the rules (some take them too far, but that isn't relevant here).

I think the man complaint wasn't the mistake, but shifting of the blame.

Brian
#10
Old 07-29-2015, 01:31 PM
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I too watch but it also depends on the game/guest whether I watch the whole thing. I also gave a little cash on their kickstarter campaign for season 3.

Last edited by Drunky Smurf; 07-29-2015 at 01:33 PM.
#11
Old 07-29-2015, 02:24 PM
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I'm curious about this controversy. Anyone have more details?

Last edited by Quimby; 07-29-2015 at 02:24 PM.
#12
Old 07-29-2015, 02:26 PM
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My kids and I watch it together and have purchased games because we saw them played on the show. My son also loves the RPG spinoff show.

I'm actually happy they messed up rules in a few of episodes. There were some games I own which just sat on the shelf because I'd be so worried about screwing up the rules but didn't really having time to memorize the minutia of a new game. Seeing them screw up and still have fun got a bunch of those games off the shelf at our house where we game them our best effort, considered any deviations house rules, and just had fun.
#13
Old 07-29-2015, 02:30 PM
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The controversy is basically that they have a "producer" whose sole job is to make sure that they get the rules right since they film 3 or 4 episodes a day, sometimes with multiple games in each episode, and for a lot of the players it's the first time they've played the game.

Recently they messed up the rules in a few games and Wheaton posted on reddit that the rules producer had fallen down on the job.

The "controversy" is that some people wanted him to say, "Mistakes were made, but I'm the boss so the buck stops here. Mea Culpa." Instead he said, "I trusted my rules producer to do his job and he let me down."

That's the long and short of it.
#14
Old 07-29-2015, 03:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pixel_Dent View Post
The controversy is basically that they have a "producer" whose sole job is to make sure that they get the rules right since they film 3 or 4 episodes a day, sometimes with multiple games in each episode, and for a lot of the players it's the first time they've played the game.

Recently they messed up the rules in a few games and Wheaton posted on reddit that the rules producer had fallen down on the job.

The "controversy" is that some people wanted him to say, "Mistakes were made, but I'm the boss so the buck stops here. Mea Culpa." Instead he said, "I trusted my rules producer to do his job and he let me down."

That's the long and short of it.
Pretty much, although that producer had other duties along with checking the rules. Wil said next season they will have someone devoted solely to checking the rules.
#15
Old 07-29-2015, 03:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pixel_Dent View Post
I'm actually happy they messed up rules in a few of episodes. There were some games I own which just sat on the shelf because I'd be so worried about screwing up the rules but didn't really having time to memorize the minutia of a new game. Seeing them screw up and still have fun got a bunch of those games off the shelf at our house where we game them our best effort, considered any deviations house rules, and just had fun.
We change the rules on games all the time for some reason or other to make them more fun.

A recent one was on Mille Bornes:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mille_Bornes

It's a road race card/board game. There is a rule that if you get an accident or flat tire or some other hazard you have to play a card to fix it and then you have to play a "Go" card so you can move again.

One game four of us sat there for a solid 10 minutes with no one drawing a "Go" card so nobody could move and it stalled the game. So we said the hell with that. No more "Go" cards needed after you fix your hazard. The game is more fun now.

Edit: and that's a dumb thing to have a controversy about.

Last edited by Drunky Smurf; 07-29-2015 at 03:42 PM.
#16
Old 07-29-2015, 04:28 PM
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Like the show a lot. We discovered Taekenoko through this series.
#17
Old 07-29-2015, 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Bricker View Post
Like the show a lot. We discovered Taekenoko through this series.
How good is that game for 2 people?
#18
Old 07-29-2015, 09:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Mahaloth View Post
How good is that game for 2 people?
It's playable with two, but much more fluid with three or more. With two, it's much harder to force the panda or the gardener out of position.
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#19
Old 07-29-2015, 11:17 PM
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I love tabletop, and it is really well edited and shot so that you get a real idea of what is going on (what the dice rolls are, what the cards read). They pace it nicely so that the dragging parts don't slow down the show.
#20
Old 07-29-2015, 11:33 PM
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I picked up Forbidden Desert based on his episode. Lots of fun, and I loved his Diplomacy rant at the start.

Last edited by Patch; 07-29-2015 at 11:33 PM.
#21
Old 07-29-2015, 11:35 PM
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I haven't watched Tabletop but I do watch another of the shows on the same Youtube channel: Spellslingers (the Day[9] vs. Everyone Magic: The Gathering series).
#22
Old 07-30-2015, 12:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pixel_Dent View Post
The controversy is basically that they have a "producer" whose sole job is to make sure that they get the rules right since they film 3 or 4 episodes a day, sometimes with multiple games in each episode, and for a lot of the players it's the first time they've played the game.

Recently they messed up the rules in a few games and Wheaton posted on reddit that the rules producer had fallen down on the job.

The "controversy" is that some people wanted him to say, "Mistakes were made, but I'm the boss so the buck stops here. Mea Culpa." Instead he said, "I trusted my rules producer to do his job and he let me down."

That's the long and short of it.
The producer was also fired. Wheaton then issued a public statement saying that the producer had done a good job for two years but he had failed to catch rule violations on several occasions this year which caused Wheaton to be embarrassed. Wheaton said he was "fucking pissed" at the producer so he fired him.

Now on the one hand, the guy's job was to make sure the rules were being followed and he failed to do this. If you're not doing your job, getting fired is a consequence.

On the other hand, Wheaton should have handled it better. Wheaton gave the impression he was more angry that he ended up looking bad than he was about the actual problem. Wheaton said he was taking full responsibility but the only thing thing he did was to say it was all the producer's fault and fire him. Wheaton says nothing about why the producer was able to do a good job for two years and fell apart this year - or indicate that he had made any effort to find out why this was happening. And most importantly, Wheaton posted all this rather than just keeping it in the family.
#23
Old 07-30-2015, 06:46 AM
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Yes.. I'm a fan. The show is generally fun to watch. I agree, there are a few I've turned off because I just thought the game wasn't that interesting, or the guests were boring. But for the most part, I've watched them all through.

Mostly, I like to discover some fun games for the fam I wouldn't have heard of otherwise. I own several games strictly because I saw them on Tabletop (Sheriff of Nottingham, Tsuro, Qwirkle, Betrayal at House on the Hill, Pandemic and Dixit) that I had either not heard of, or disregarded prior. With a handful more on "the list" (Takenoko, Castle Panic, Small World)

I'm looking forward to Mice and Mystics tomorrow
#24
Old 07-30-2015, 07:05 AM
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Out of curiosity... I looked up the controversy. Here is a link to Wheatons apology:

http://wilwheaton.net/2015/06/tablet...-up-the-rules/

Which includes this:

"Ultimately, I am the host and the face and the identity of Tabletop, so ultimately this falls on me. I take responsibility for these mistakes. I am the executive producer and creator, and it’s my responsibility to ensure that everyone is doing their job. It’s my responsibility to deliver the best show I can, and too many times this season I failed to do that."

So.. I'm not sure why people are feeling like he is absolving himself of blame.

It seems like a lot of hubbub over nothing.
#25
Old 07-30-2015, 07:07 AM
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Bit of a storm in a dice cup, no? Personally I've always found Will Wheaton a tad grating, but I'm grateful for being pointed to his show - I enjoy most of his guests and some of the games.
#26
Old 07-30-2015, 11:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Little Nemo View Post
On the other hand, Wheaton should have handled it better. Wheaton gave the impression he was more angry that he ended up looking bad than he was about the actual problem.
Wheaton is a pussy sissy who has admitted several times that I know of, on his blog, that he can't take criticism. He says he's gotten over not being liked for being Wesley but he really hasn't.

His apology on his blog is embarrassing to read. He mentions several times that he is embarrassed, angry and sorry and that it'll never ever ever happen again I promise with sprinkles on top.

I'd like a cite that he actually fired someone because if he did I'm losing a lot of respect for him.

Seriously you're going to put someone out of a job because some whiny game nerds, who care more about following the rules to a T than having fun with your friends, threw a hissy fit over a stupid rule. If that ruins your experience your a baby and should go back to your mommys basement.

We've kicked several people out because they were whiny little babies because we didn't follow the rules exactly because we altered them to make the game more fun to us.
#27
Old 07-30-2015, 01:53 PM
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I actually wondered when I posted the thread if it would devolve into the controversy. It is hardly a big deal to me, but I wondered if I could get away posting about something without people obsessing on its, to me, irrelevant minor controversy.
#28
Old 07-31-2015, 03:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Mahaloth View Post
I actually wondered when I posted the thread if it would devolve into the controversy. It is hardly a big deal to me, but I wondered if I could get away posting about something without people obsessing on its, to me, irrelevant minor controversy.
I agree it's a silly controversy. I don't know Will Wheaton. I don't know the producer. Why I am going to get worked up over this? But some people in the gaming community have nothing better to do.

There is a different problem I have with the show that's more related to gaming. I'm a regular gamer (two or three days a week). Wheaton is also a very active gamer.

But Tabletop is not really a show about gaming at that level. Wheaton brings in celebrities who are often happy to admit they've never played the game before the day they sit down to tape the show. So while they're often fun people they're not great gamers.

To make an analogy, suppose you were a serious baseball fan. Which would you rather watch: the Yankees playing the Red Sox or the cast of Glee playing the cast of Game of Thrones? Now if you're a serious fan of baseball, you're going to want to watch it being played by top professionals. But if you only have a casual interest in baseball, you might rather watch it being played by celebrities, even if they're not playing the game as well.
#29
Old 07-31-2015, 04:01 AM
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I like the show and if "the gaming community" doesn't like it, that makes me like it more because fuck those people.
#30
Old 07-31-2015, 10:05 AM
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I'm okay with sloppy game play. The point of the show is to show people having fun playing games and it usually does that well. People get worked up over nonsense because that's what the Internet is now.
#31
Old 07-31-2015, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quimby View Post
I'm okay with sloppy game play. The point of the show is to show people having fun playing games and it usually does that well. People get worked up over nonsense because that's what the Internet is now.
I agree, except that was not the approach Wheaton appears to have taken with his apology. I think he should have.
#32
Old 07-31-2015, 11:24 AM
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This is the first I've heard of it.

Is it as good as Fun With Flags?
#33
Old 07-31-2015, 11:55 AM
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Sadly no. Most games do not have flags in them.
#34
Old 07-31-2015, 12:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quimby View Post
I'm okay with sloppy game play. The point of the show is to show people having fun playing games and it usually does that well. People get worked up over nonsense because that's what the Internet is now.
Well, I'm not calling for anyone's head but I've used Tabletop in the past to determine whether or not to get a game and when they do things like discard influences in Coup when they win a challenge, really they're making it a different game and it makes me gunshy to purchase things based on the show.

That being said, his apology was terrible and I hope he at least painted something fun on the underside of the bus he threw that producer under.
#35
Old 07-31-2015, 12:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quimby View Post
I'm okay with sloppy game play. The point of the show is to show people having fun playing games and it usually does that well.
Wheaton does a great job with that. Tabletop has probably brought more new people into the gaming hobby than anything else out there.
#36
Old 07-31-2015, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Drunky Smurf View Post
Wheaton is a pussy sissy who has admitted several times that I know of, on his blog, that he can't take criticism. He says he's gotten over not being liked for being Wesley but he really hasn't.

His apology on his blog is embarrassing to read. He mentions several times that he is embarrassed, angry and sorry and that it'll never ever ever happen again I promise with sprinkles on top.

I'd like a cite that he actually fired someone because if he did I'm losing a lot of respect for him.

Seriously you're going to put someone out of a job because some whiny game nerds, who care more about following the rules to a T than having fun with your friends, threw a hissy fit over a stupid rule. If that ruins your experience your a baby and should go back to your mommys basement.

We've kicked several people out because they were whiny little babies because we didn't follow the rules exactly because we altered them to make the game more fun to us.
Bolding mine. Given the rest of your post, I'm not sure how much respect you have to give at this point.
#37
Old 07-31-2015, 01:48 PM
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As a fairly serious board/card gamers...I really enjoy the show. I think it's mostly really well done and a lot of fun to watch. The thing about Wil Wheaton is that he is generally a normal guy. He's not perfect. He's nerdy, has an ego, is a bit too competitive, like to be the center of attention. Basically, he's a lot like many gamers I know and hang out with. And that's fine! He doesn't have to be perfect. If I hosted a show like that, I'm sure there's plenty of snarky things you could say about me.

The long-form RPG show he's doing right now (Titansgrave: The Ashes of Valkana) is also really good. I'm enjoying his GM style a lot. He engages the players and draws them out, gives them a lot of agency and emotional growth. It's a lot les munchkin then I expected and a lot heavier on storytelling and roleplaying. All good things, IMO.
#38
Old 07-31-2015, 03:52 PM
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I'm going to echo what a lot of other people here have said. I generally like the show but have also turned off a couple of episode due to either the game or the guests. Though I think I like the first two seasons the most as that coincided with the time I was starting to get into the hobby and so Tabletop was often my first introduction to many of these games.

Many of you may be aware already, but I'm going to suggest checking out the boardgame geek youtube channel and their "Gamenight" series. It's similar to Tabletop in that it's just watching a game being played. The differences are that (1) it is (mostly) the same 4-6 people playing, (2) there's a fuller explanation of the rules of the game, (3) while it is edited, you get to see pretty much every move or action taken in the game, (4) there is a closing review of the game. I enjoy it a lot. You get a really good sense of how the games are played.
#39
Old 07-31-2015, 08:04 PM
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If I'm looking to get a sense of what a game is like and whether I'd want to play it, I like Rahdo best. I'll also check out Dice Tower, Starlit Citadel, Undead Viking, and Watch It Played.
#40
Old 08-10-2015, 08:14 PM
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:bump:

I have been watching Wil Wheaton's Titansgrave: the Ashes of Vulcanna show and loving it. I like it even more than Tabletop.

Was there an rpg season of a show he did last year? I thought I heard there was, but I can not find it.
#41
Old 08-10-2015, 09:33 PM
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I like the show quite a bit. I've used it to find new games and, more importantly, convince my wife to let me buy a game.

As per the controversy. I really, really didn't care about the rule changes. I didn't like the apology one bit, though. Praise in public, criticize in private. He did not do that.
#42
Old 08-10-2015, 11:11 PM
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I've finally been able to get a regular casual gaming group together in my remote neck of the woods and TableTop has been a godsend. Most of the group are inexperienced gamers, so the level of game play in Tabletop is just about right, rather than the more thorough, but a lot drier, gameplay videos on most gamer sites. I had stopped buying games entirely because I got tired of stockpiling games with no one to play with. Tabletop has gotten me started buying games again, and around half the games I've bought are from Tabletop, with Sushi Go being the most recent.
#43
Old 08-10-2015, 11:51 PM
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Originally Posted by bmoak View Post
I've finally been able to get a regular casual gaming group together in my remote neck of the woods and TableTop has been a godsend. Most of the group are inexperienced gamers, so the level of game play in Tabletop is just about right, rather than the more thorough, but a lot drier, gameplay videos on most gamer sites. I had stopped buying games entirely because I got tired of stockpiling games with no one to play with. Tabletop has gotten me started buying games again, and around half the games I've bought are from Tabletop, with Sushi Go being the most recent.
I recommend Splendor. It's a really fun game that's easy for non-gamers to pick up.
#44
Old 08-11-2015, 11:35 AM
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Bolding mine. Given the rest of your post, I'm not sure how much respect you have to give at this point.
I have 4 left.
#45
Old 08-12-2015, 08:16 AM
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I wish I liked it, I like a lot of the guests. Wheaton's manner never fails to annoy me. I never heard about the supposed controversy until I read this thread, I just don't like the guy. He did the audio version of the book Ready Player One, which is a really truly bad book, and he managed to make it even worse. For me, just me, it's fine that other people like him and even RPO.
#46
Old 08-12-2015, 09:32 AM
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I've watched pretty much every episode with my kids, and it's been a great way to get them engaged and interested in games that we did not know about. We are very much a part of the Wil Wheaton Effect, in that we bought a fair number of games that he's done on his show. His mannerisms can be annoying but he can also be very funny.
#47
Old 08-13-2015, 12:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Dave Hartwick View Post
I wish I liked it, I like a lot of the guests. Wheaton's manner never fails to annoy me. I never heard about the supposed controversy until I read this thread, I just don't like the guy. He did the audio version of the book Ready Player One, which is a really truly bad book, and he managed to make it even worse. For me, just me, it's fine that other people like him and even RPO.
Wait, why would you listen to the audio version of a book you don't like? Masochism?

I like Tabletop a lot. It doesn't always work - sometimes the players are working too hard at having fun, sometimes they're trying to be funny and missing, but sometimes they're really just playing a game and having a good time. And even if they sometimes miss a rule, they're still giving me a ton of information about the flavor and mechanics of a game, which helps me understand if I'll like playing it.
#48
Old 08-13-2015, 06:24 AM
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Sometimes I finish a book I don't like to sharpen my appreciation for the ones I do. Also, to say mean things about it on Goodreads.
#49
Old 08-14-2015, 08:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Little Nemo View Post
I recommend Splendor. It's a really fun game that's easy for non-gamers to pick up.
I've seen it the trade mags. The problem is that my game group usually has five people showing up, which can limit some of the game choices. Also, right now I have enough of a backlog of unplayed games that I'm only looking for shorter (and cheaer) warm-up games.
#50
Old 08-15-2015, 01:01 PM
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I highly recommend Titansgrave, the rpg show he just completed the first season of.

It was a lot of fun to watch and I liked it even more than Tabletop.
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