#1
Old 09-27-2015, 08:24 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2012
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Got a warning email from [email protected]

I recently had a very large Amazon order go missing in transit. 4 total packages and a value of over $500. I did get a full refund. A couple days after getting the refund, I got this email
" Hello,

A careful review of your account reflects that you've ordered with us a number of times, but we're having difficulty getting your packages to you. Lost packages have been reported multiple times on your account.

It's very important to us that our customers receive the products they purchase from Amazon.com. We appreciate your business and regret that these items haven't been delivered to you. Certainly, such lost shipments are inconvenient for you and costly for Amazon.com.

Please keep in mind when Standard Shipping is chosen on an order, we may use the U.S. Postal Service, UPS, Federal Express, or DHL when shipping your order. Unfortunately, it isn't possible to choose a specific shipper for orders.

When unusual account activity such as this comes to our attention, we'll evaluate each account on a case-by-case basis to determine if additional action or closing of the account is necessary.


Continued failure to comply with our policies may result in the removal of both your Amazon.com buying and selling privileges.

Please write back to us directly at [email protected] if you have any questions.

We appreciate your cooperation and understanding.

Best regards,

Account Specialist."
Am I going to get banned if something goes missing again? I have looked this up, and found horror stories of people getting banned for filing too many claims for packages going missing, or receiving damaged products.
#2
Old 09-27-2015, 08:39 PM
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Sounds like a very genteel and paperwork-oriented variation of a pizza place that refuses to deliver to the bad part of town because the drivers keep getting mugged.
#3
Old 09-27-2015, 08:42 PM
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There is more to this story.
#4
Old 09-27-2015, 08:46 PM
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Is it really ok to order something on Amazon worth $500 with no verification of delivery whatsoever?

No signature, no requirement that the package is left with an actual person or otherwise some other proof of purchase?

If I were Amazon, (or any seller) such arrangements would be at the buyer's own risk. I would get some form of proof of sending, and after that - if you don't receive it, well tough shit.
#5
Old 09-27-2015, 09:38 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 362
Quote:
Originally Posted by amazon



Continued failure to comply with our policies may result in the removal of both your Amazon.com buying and selling privileges.
What are they talking about? "Continued failure to comply"? And the failure is theirs. So, if they keep fucking up they're going to ban themselves from doing business with you?

Last edited by yawuntz; 09-27-2015 at 09:39 PM.
#6
Old 09-27-2015, 09:52 PM
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Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Somewhere near Boston
Posts: 9,896
Quote:
Originally Posted by boffking View Post
A careful review of your account reflects that you've ordered with us a number of times, but we're having difficulty getting your packages to you. Lost packages have been reported multiple times on your account.

It's very important to us that our customers receive the products they purchase from Amazon.com. We appreciate your business and regret that these items haven't been delivered to you. Certainly, such lost shipments are inconvenient for you and costly for Amazon.com.

Please keep in mind when Standard Shipping is chosen on an order, we may use the U.S. Postal Service, UPS, Federal Express, or DHL when shipping your order. Unfortunately, it isn't possible to choose a specific shipper for orders.

When unusual account activity such as this comes to our attention, we'll evaluate each account on a case-by-case basis to determine if additional action or closing of the account is necessary.


Continued failure to comply with our policies may result in the removal of both your Amazon.com buying and selling privileges.
The bizarre thing about this letter is that in no way describes any policies that have been violated or that could be complied with, so the last sentence is a complete non sequitur.
#7
Old 09-27-2015, 10:28 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 8,596
As a seller I had a particular customer who has a rather expensive package go missing, tracking# showed delivered but fair enough I replaced it. They ordered again after some months, sent registered mail at my own expense with sig confirmation. Two separate packages mailed days apart due to stock issue, delivered days apart, tracking showed delivered, registration confirmed, signed for. Customer just flat claimed they didn't care what I had to prove it, they did not get either package period.

I cancelled a further order they tried to make months later, they were angry and said I must think they were a scammer and it wasn't their fault. I said I am not accusing you of anything, and I don't know what happened to the packages, but I will not take a further order from you because something is going on and I don't need the hassle or possible problems with my paypal account because of claims. I just think it best we stop doing business because of whatever the issue is.


Anyway my point here is that this letter sounds very much like that, Amazon just isn't interested in continuing to ship to the OP's address because it could very well happen again.
#8
Old 09-27-2015, 10:51 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by boffking View Post
A careful review of your account reflects that you've ordered with us a number of times, but we're having difficulty getting your packages to you. Lost packages have been reported multiple times on your account.

Continued failure to comply with our policies may result in the removal of both your Amazon.com buying and selling privileges.
Sounds like some CS guy with a very rudimentary understanding of English copy-pasted two generic prepared emails together and sent it to you. What policies?

Anyway the point should have gotten across that they're going to ban you if they keep losing money off of you. And last time I checked, an account banned for any reason loses all access to digital content, including Kindle purchases, so watch out if you have any sort of investment there.
#9
Old 09-27-2015, 10:54 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bengangmo View Post
Is it really ok to order something on Amazon worth $500 with no verification of delivery whatsoever?
Amazon does not give you a choice of shipper. You only get to choose speed, and the options don't guarantee any particular shipper.

I've had expensive stuff stolen from my doorstep at Christmas time because either Amazon didn't request a signature or UPS and FedEx ignored the request. If they had given me the option, I would have requested USPS since their deliveries go into a locked personal mailbox and can't get stolen.
#10
Old 09-27-2015, 11:05 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Southwestern PA
Posts: 11,589
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ethilrist View Post
Sounds like a very genteel and paperwork-oriented variation of a pizza place that refuses to deliver to the bad part of town because the drivers keep getting mugged.
This


Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewm View Post
Amazon does not give you a choice of shipper. You only get to choose speed, and the options don't guarantee any particular shipper.
And this.

And e-mail and automatic communication from Amazon is notoriously bad. I had 8 e-mails begging me to complete my application with them and/or offering me other possible jobs with them. Problem was they had hired me two weeks before these e-mails started and already paid me twice. Ooooops. I would try one of the CS phone numbers and see what an actual human there makes out of all of this.
#11
Old 09-27-2015, 11:14 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 14,057
I had a friend who was renting a second story apartment, not in a terrible part of town, but right next to a bus stop that unfortunately sometimes had less than savory sorts hanging around it. The way his building was structured (these were smaller low rise apartments) he had a "front door" that opened to the ground level, that was at the base of a staircase, then a second "front door" at the top of the stair case that opened into his apartment proper (the staircase was private, it opened to no other apartments or floors.)

When he knew deliveries were coming, he would beg the shipper to open that first door that opened to his entry staircase and drop the package there, because he figured at least then the package wouldn't be sitting out in plain view of a busy street with a bus stop across from it that faces directly to his outer door. Since the internal door had a heavy deadbolt and etc he would still be protected from intruders/burglars. Sure, if someone saw it dropped off they could just walk over and open the door and steal the package, but it was at least out of sight of anyone who wasn't watching the moment it was dropped off.

Sometimes if he got in touch with the shipper they would listen, but most of the times not. Most of the time they would knock on the external door, and if no answer they just dropped the package and walked off. He had a ton of Amazon packages stolen. Eventually they did this warning letter OP has received, and then went a step further when stuff was stolen again and basically marked the address in their system such that he could no longer get deliveries there. He eventually got a UPS Store box set up, where deliveries are delivered there and he can go to collect them. Much more costly, but he didn't have any other options.

I suspect if this keeps happening this could be what happens to OP, Amazon will flag your address as a place they will no longer send packages to, and you'll have to make other arrangements.

Last edited by Martin Hyde; 09-27-2015 at 11:16 PM.
#12
Old 09-27-2015, 11:16 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yawuntz View Post
What are they talking about? "Continued failure to comply"? And the failure is theirs. So, if they keep fucking up they're going to ban themselves from doing business with you?
How is it known if the failure is theirs?
All that's known is that the OP claims the package was not received.

But YES - Amazon needs to change their policies such that some form of delivery confirmation can be required.

No confirmation of delivery - reship
Confirmation of delivery - shit outta luck on replacement.

If this really so difficult?

And to Grude - I would have told the guy to go pound sand, if I have confirmation of delivery the buyer can follow up with the delivery company.
#13
Old 09-27-2015, 11:36 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Central Ohio
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bengangmo View Post
No confirmation of delivery - reship
Confirmation of delivery - shit outta luck on replacement.

If this really so difficult?
Yes, if you do things like accept credit cards. The delivery company is the seller's contractor and any failure before delivery is the responsibility of the seller, not the buyer. If the seller chooses to be ignorant of whether the package was given to a person, that's a business decision they have to own if it goes wrong.

Retailers send things without confirmation, even though it's at their risk, because almost all packages arrive and spending a buck or two extra on shipping isn't usually worth it. If you send out 100 packages worth $50 each, taking a loss on one of them is cheaper than getting 100 signatures. And almost all of the customers are happier because they didn't have to drive across town to get the package that came when they were at work.

Last edited by Lord Feldon; 09-27-2015 at 11:41 PM.
#14
Old 09-28-2015, 12:24 AM
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Location: Western PA
Posts: 3,291
Amazon is the 800-million pound gorilla of shipping right now. Sunday deliveries happen in urban areas solely because of Amazon. Late night deliveries happen in urban areas solely because of Amazon. They're rolling out one hour deliveries in Seattle and NYC. People rely on them for all their non-perishable groceries now, and much more. If they cut you off because they think (even without proof) you're scamming them over lost deliveries, oh well, it's not going to cost them enough to make it worth the effort to do something different to keep you. Even media reports about ambulances standing by for heatstroke victims at their warehouses and other labor exploitation didn't stop the Amazon juggernaut or affect their bottom line in any way, so your complaints to friends and family won't do anything appreciable either. They're worse than Walmart. They don't have to care about any individual customer and they don't.

It's a horrible reality, but this is the trade off for the "convenience" of being able to buy things from a huge online company that sells everything and has one click ordering and blah blah Amazonconvenience blah blah.
#15
Old 09-28-2015, 09:16 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Colorado Rockies.
Posts: 11,493
:aside:

We don't get USPS mail delivery to private homes and most businesses. It can be a real hassle for us. I have a USPS box. I don't like having things delivered to my home as it's hard to find, and if you need a signature... well. In the winter you must have a 4 wheel drive.

I used to just ship to work, but that becomes a problem sometimes. It's a small community, and if it was shipped USPS it often got delivered to my work USPS box even when the address given was the street address. (pissed me off to no end). It was a real crapshoot.

Fed up, I ended up getting a UPS box at the UPS store and just ship everything there. They will take anything. Fed-x, DHL, UPS (of course) and oddly, even USPS delivers to that box. It's crazy but it works. They even email me when ever I get a package.

Works so well that recently we had the UPS store forward on a package overnight shipping to a hotel we where staying at.
#16
Old 09-28-2015, 09:35 AM
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Join Date: May 2001
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 17,662
I'm amazed that you guys don't have something like this free service from Australia Post 24/7 Parcel Lockers.
#17
Old 09-28-2015, 09:47 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Colorado Rockies.
Posts: 11,493
Quote:
Originally Posted by don't ask View Post
I'm amazed that you guys don't have something like this free service from Australia Post 24/7 Parcel Lockers.
We have something sort of similar. The USPS has 24/7 lockers available. It's free, if you have a USPS box. (PO Box). It won't hold big items though.

Thing is, if it's shipped UPS, Fed-X or anything but USPS they won't take them.

Though I have found out that if something is shipped UPS AIR, UPS will take it to the USPS, and USPS will process it for you. Total crapshoot if you don't know how it's going to be shipped.
#18
Old 09-28-2015, 09:50 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Boulder, CO
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enipla View Post
We have something sort of similar. The USPS has 24/7 lockers available. It's free, if you have a USPS box. (PO Box). It won't hold big items though.
If you live in the right place, Amazon even has its own lockers it can deliver to for pick-up.

Edit: Woo-hoo! Ninjaed someone!

Last edited by leahcim; 09-28-2015 at 09:55 AM.
#19
Old 09-28-2015, 09:53 AM
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Join Date: May 2000
Location: Brooklyn
Posts: 23,410
Amazon has been rolling out their own 24-hour delivery locker system in NYC. I've been thinking of trying it out.

ETA: leahcim ninja.

Last edited by friedo; 09-28-2015 at 09:54 AM.
#20
Old 09-28-2015, 10:12 AM
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Join Date: Apr 2000
Posts: 18,759
Quote:
Originally Posted by boffking View Post
Continued failure to comply with our policies may result in the removal of both your Amazon.com buying and selling privileges.
I think people are misinterpreting this a bit. People are assuming that "continued" means "you've already started - if you keep going on like this..." I think it's supposed to be a more general rule: "if someone fails repeatedly...", not necessarily saying you have or have not already begun to fail. Just, as a policy, they don't act after one incident, but only after a pattern has emerged.
#21
Old 09-29-2015, 12:03 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 11,403
Quote:
Originally Posted by kunlun View Post
...And last time I checked, an account banned for any reason loses all access to digital content, including Kindle purchases, so watch out if you have any sort of investment there.
Re the Kindle content, here's a hint: look up ways to de-DRM your content, and back it up yourself. I won't post links because there are arguments both ways as to whether that's legal in the US.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amazon bureaucrat
you've ordered with us a number of times, but we're having difficulty getting your packages to you.....
.....Continued failure to comply with our policies...
Well this is pretty bizarre. One failed order is not "a number of times". And as others have said, WHAT policy violations????

What you didn't say was whether there was any kind of tracking on the packages. If so, what does the carrier say about it? If not: where would the packages have been left if you were out? Ours are left by the front door and we've never had anything go missing, but we're in a pretty safe neighborhood.
#22
Old 09-29-2015, 01:18 PM
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Posts: 8,265
Read between the lines. They're not accusing you of stealing packages. They just don't really have time to hire a PD to investigate your $500 package. Their standard policy is to side with the customer, you, until you fall outside of some statistically predefined norm for claims.

They send such volume that they will just absorb the cost of one or two missed shipments here and there, but if it keeps happening to one account, they don't care whose fault it is -- the shipper's or yours or theirs or your bad neighbor's -- the cost of doing business with you just becomes too high, so rather than wasting their time dealing with a full investigation, they'll just cut you off. You need Amazon much more than they need you. Losing you means saving the hassle of dealing with missed shipments so they can keep delivering fine to the other 95% of their customers. They don't care.

And if you do, find a smaller merchant who will work with signature confirmation and all that, a business small enough for your $500 order to matter. You're nobody to Amazon. We all are. They'll treat you well until you're no longer profitable, and then you're cut off. Amazon got big not through individualized attention to every single lowly customer, but by massively scaling up economies of scale. They have humans on board only as a last resort, and no one single customer's time is worth all that much to them if it hampers their efficiency.

Last edited by Reply; 09-29-2015 at 01:22 PM.
#23
Old 09-29-2015, 04:25 PM
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Location: Virginia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boffking View Post
Please keep in mind when Standard Shipping is chosen on an order, we may use the U.S. Postal Service, UPS, Federal Express, or DHL when shipping your order. Unfortunately, it isn't possible to choose a specific shipper for orders.
IMO this is a big problem. UPS does a good job around here. FedEx and USPS, decent. DHL does terribly (are they even still in business in the USA?) Amazon should allow the customers to choose the service that works best for them.
#24
Old 09-29-2015, 04:48 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Seattle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reply View Post
You're nobody to Amazon. We all are. They'll treat you well until you're no longer profitable, and then you're cut off. Amazon got big not through individualized attention to every single lowly customer, but by massively scaling up economies of scale. They have humans on board only as a last resort, and no one single customer's time is worth all that much to them if it hampers their efficiency.
Amazon has built its success on two things: scale and other-worldly customer support. And when those two things conflict, they tend to err on the side of making customers happy. I'm sure there's some line you can cross where they actively believe you're a fraudster and won't do business with you anymore, but until then, they'll generally make things right. Why don't you [the OP, that is] call/email and ask for clarification?
#25
Old 09-29-2015, 04:59 PM
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Location: SF Bay Area, California
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Do Not Taunt View Post
And when those two things conflict, they tend to err on the side of making customers happy.
I gotta say on the purely anecdotal side all of my interactions with Amazon customer service have been sterling. Including not charging me for a pricey computer monitor that was stolen from my front yard after delivery and refunding me a couple hundred dollars on a camera purchase after the price dropped precipitously a day or two after I had ordered it. I've definitely cost them some money.
#26
Old 09-29-2015, 05:03 PM
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This was the first thing that came to mind
#27
Old 09-29-2015, 05:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finagle View Post
The bizarre thing about this letter is that in no way describes any policies that have been violated or that could be complied with, so the last sentence is a complete non sequitur.
Maybe it's their "don't be a jerk" rule.
#28
Old 09-29-2015, 07:53 PM
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Posts: 22,351
The letter seems like a veiled warning not to use Amazon's refund policy too often. They aren't directly making accusations of abuse in the letter. But they want customers to know they are monitoring refunds and lost packages activity.

Too be fair, most stores are similar. Home Depot has a very friendly no questions asked policy. I've returned unopened building supplies left over from a completed project. They didn't even need a receipt. My account activity history indicated when they were purchased. The cashier brings up the item by scanning the bar code. But I'm careful not to return things too often. I'll keep inexpensive things (packages of screws, electrical switches etc) rather than return them. Just to avoid a long list of returns on my account. I rather be cautious then get flagged for possible abuse of their return policy.

Last edited by aceplace57; 09-29-2015 at 07:54 PM.
#29
Old 09-30-2015, 02:32 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: BK.NY.US
Posts: 1,678
Phishing scam? I've gotten a couple of e-mails with a Paypal from address (which is whitelisted) claiming I authorized a charge and I need to respond something something. Inevitably there's no such charge on my account, and the e-mail is to an address that isn't the one Paypal sends charge notifications to. The first time it happened, having a suspicion as to what was going on, I moused over a link in the e-mail, and sure enough, not Paypal. I have a feeling this is likewise not Amazon, judging from the English, if you can call it that, in the message
#30
Old 10-01-2015, 01:48 PM
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Location: on your last raw nerve
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bengangmo View Post
But YES - Amazon needs to change their policies such that some form of delivery confirmation can be required.

No confirmation of delivery - reship
Confirmation of delivery - shit outta luck on replacement.
You don't become the world's largest retailer by pissing people off. That, and tons of sex toys.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=cZ0qpPTH1ow
#31
Old 10-01-2015, 01:56 PM
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Was it really [email protected] or was it that text that really linked to a cis.nigarianscamartists.sa address?
#32
Old 10-01-2015, 02:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bengangmo View Post
If I were Amazon, (or any seller) such arrangements would be at the buyer's own risk. I would get some form of proof of sending, and after that - if you don't receive it, well tough shit.
How many multi-billion dollar e-commerce companies have you managed? "Tough shit" isn't usually a very good customer retention policy.

There's a really good reason Amazon does things this way. It costs a lot to do delivery confirmation for every order. It costs a lot to piss off a customer when you won't refund them something that got stolen. And it might not be legal to have that policy anyway.

Their current policy works really well. The vast majority of packages do not get stolen. Adding a bunch of extra costs because a few do is a foolish policy. When a particular address has a history of refunds, then you investigate and figure out the best way to cover your costs in that case.

I'll admit that Amazon's email is confusingly worded, but I'll tell you exactly what policy is being violated: Don't order things for mail delivery if you don't have a safe and reliable way to receive those deliveries. It is neither your fault nor Amazon's fault that there are thieves. But it is your fault if you keep ordering things and expecting them to pay for thievery.
#33
Old 10-01-2015, 02:21 PM
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Location: San Jose
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bengangmo View Post

If I were Amazon, (or any seller) such arrangements would be at the buyer's own risk. I would get some form of proof of sending, and after that - if you don't receive it, well tough shit.
Nope, sorry, that not how the law works. In general, using the US Mail, etc, the buyer is 100% responsible for getting the payment to the seller, and the seller is responsible for getting the paid for goods to the buyer. (I skip odd FOB freight shipping rules, since you're not buying a tractor).

Now, there's a new complication- say the package does get to the Front porch, and is left there: but is then stolen. Who is responsible?
#34
Old 10-01-2015, 06:20 PM
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Location: "Hicksville", Ark.
Posts: 32,842
There's no reason they couldn't charge you extra to allow you to get signature delivery, and it reduces their customer base to not provide it. Any costs would be offset by the extra fee.

In fact, I was pretty sure that Amazon did offer multiple shipping options. I know they offer faster delivery options.
#35
Old 10-02-2015, 05:53 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Southeast Michigan, USA
Posts: 10,294
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDeth View Post
Nope, sorry, that not how the law works. In general, using the US Mail, etc, the buyer is 100% responsible for getting the payment to the seller, and the seller is responsible for getting the paid for goods to the buyer. (I skip odd FOB freight shipping rules, since you're not buying a tractor).
I'm not so sure that is the law, though. The UCC would seem to indicate that once goods are tendered to the common carrier, risk belongs to the buyer. Sellers' assuming the responsibility seems to be just a good business practice.
#36
Old 10-02-2015, 06:10 PM
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Location: San Jose
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Balthisar View Post
I'm not so sure that is the law, though. The UCC would seem to indicate that once goods are tendered to the common carrier, risk belongs to the buyer. Sellers' assuming the responsibility seems to be just a good business practice.
As I said,I skip odd FOB freight shipping rules, since you're not buying a tractor


"(a) if it does not require him to deliver them at a particular destination,"

When you ship via USPS etc, dont you ask for the good to be delivered to a particular destination?
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