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#1
Old 11-14-2015, 08:53 AM
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Which Sitcom was Better? Cheers Or Frasier?

I slightly prefer Cheers To Frasier, although I do like both. I like Cheers more because of the characters. Cliff, Norm, Coach,Woody, Frasier, Lilith, Sam, Diane,They were all good characters. The only 2 characters I did NOT care for were Rebecca And Carla.

Frasier I like because of comedy. Frasier was a more laugh out loud sitcom. Each episode had some funny scenes and overall was very well written. The show mostly had good characters and most were at least likeable. The only characters I don't care for are Bulldog and Daphne (her British accent annoys me)
#2
Old 11-14-2015, 09:15 AM
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Not even close. Frasier over Cheers by a landslide. And don't knock Bulldog and Daphne. Until the writers ran out of plotlines for her, Daphne was a linchpin of the show.
#3
Old 11-14-2015, 09:58 AM
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I think Frasier is the greatest sitcom of all time, and David Hyde Pierce gives the greatest ever comic performance, although the whole cast is tremendous. It's quite a British-style comedy too, a comedy of manners, of broad farce, of sarcasm, of class distinctions. It's wonderful.

Cheers is great too, more American in style to my mind, more wisecracky, if that makes sense.

I'll watch any episode of both.
#4
Old 11-14-2015, 10:12 AM
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I prefer Frazier, although Cheers was some fine TV writing, too.
#5
Old 11-14-2015, 10:25 AM
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Cheers is very good but Frasier is one of my all time favorite shows.
#6
Old 11-14-2015, 10:46 AM
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The "Ski Lodge" episode of Frasier is one of my favorites ever. It's like genius-level "Three's Company".
#7
Old 11-14-2015, 10:53 AM
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Guess I'll be the first odd duck to say that I loved Cheers but never really got into Fraiser.
#8
Old 11-14-2015, 10:55 AM
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Frasier for me. I can still watch and enjoy episodes of it, but I can't watch Cheers any more.
#9
Old 11-14-2015, 10:58 AM
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As much as I like Frasier (I've seen every episode at least three times), it has IMHO no episode that compares to the early Cheers! episode where Coach's daughter comes to visit.

That one episode, and Nicholas Colasanto's character in general, kind of tips the scale in favor of Cheers! for me.
#10
Old 11-14-2015, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Jophiel View Post
Guess I'll be the first odd duck to say that I loved Cheers but never really got into Fraiser.
Same here. I admire "clever" humour, but it just doesn't make me laugh as much, and my ultimate measure of a comedy is how much it makes me laugh.
#11
Old 11-14-2015, 03:07 PM
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I enjoyed Cheers while it was on, but recently tried a few episodes again on Netflix and was disappointed. On the other hand, I've been slowly watching my way through Frasier on Netflix and thoroughly re-enjoying it.
#12
Old 11-14-2015, 03:22 PM
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Agree with silenus, Frasier by a landslide.
#13
Old 11-14-2015, 03:26 PM
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Neither are my favorite but both were fine Sitcoms. I would place them pretty much even. Cheers was more consistent and the support characters including Frasier were better than the support characters in Frasier. Though I think for the main characters Frasier > Sam.

Frasier had some really good episodes mixed in with some really stupid episodes. Cheers however is not a show that works well for me watching again 30 years later. Not sure why. Frazier is enjoyable at times and I am more likely to watch an old episode now but I watched Cheers regularly in its original run and Frazier only held me a few years.


I wish Night Court was on one of the oldie stations or Netflix/Amazon, when I get the Encore freeviews it appears that show has held up very well.
#14
Old 11-14-2015, 03:32 PM
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Also agree with silenus. Daphne was a goddess (Niles agrees). Could not stand Shelley Long, and Kirstie Alley was no better (she's not even a good Vulcan).
#15
Old 11-14-2015, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by burpo the wonder mutt View Post
Also agree with silenus. Daphne was a goddess (Niles agrees). Could not stand Shelley Long, and Kirstie Alley was no better (she's not even a good Vulcan).
Really? I thought she was the best of the 3 actresses to play female Vulcans in the first 6 movies. I mean Rebecca was a terrible character but I thought Kirstie was quite good as Savik and her replacement was dead wood and Kim Cattrall was not as good as Kirstie.
#16
Old 11-14-2015, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by What Exit? View Post
Really? I thought she was the best of the 3 actresses to play female Vulcans in the first 6 movies. I mean Rebecca was a terrible character but I thought Kirstie was quite good as Savik and her replacement was dead wood and Kim Cattrall was not as good as Kirstie.
You're 100% correct re the Rebecca character and I knew my Vulcan throw-away comment was going to bite me in the butt. I don't remember Kirstie/Saavik doing much of anything except looking real good. Might re-visit that film some day, I'll let you know.

Bring back Celia Lovsky!
#17
Old 11-14-2015, 03:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silenus
And don't knock Bulldog and Daphne. Until the writers ran out of plotlines for her, Daphne was a linchpin of the show.
Speaking of Daphne, I recently stumbled upon reruns of a delightful sitcom called Hot in Cleveland. It ran from 2010 to June of last year and stars the incredibly youthful Wendie Malick, Valerie Bertinelli, Betty White and Jane Leeves. Leaves character is basically a lonely horndog and very different from Daphne, although the accent remains. I eventually grew to dislike Leeves' accent in Frasier but it's fine in Hot in Cleveland. Probably because the character is more cynical and sarcastic than the sweet and borderline cloying character of Daphne.

Last edited by Starving Artist; 11-14-2015 at 04:03 PM.
#18
Old 11-14-2015, 05:11 PM
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Originally Posted by E-DUB View Post
The "Ski Lodge" episode of Frasier is one of my favorites ever. It's like genius-level "Three's Company".
Exactly. Unsurprised to discover it was the highest rated episode.

SPOILER:
Frasier: Wait, wait, wait. Let me see if I've got this straight. All the lust coursing through this lodge tonight, all the hormones virtually ricocheting off the walls, and no one... was chasing me?
#19
Old 11-14-2015, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by burpo the wonder mutt View Post
You're 100% correct re the Rebecca character and I knew my Vulcan throw-away comment was going to bite me in the butt. I don't remember Kirstie/Saavik doing much of anything except looking real good. Might re-visit that film some day, I'll let you know.

Bring back Celia Lovsky!
Good point, T'Pau was awesome, but Kirstie/Saavik > Arlene Martel/T'Pring
#20
Old 11-14-2015, 05:24 PM
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Nitpick: Saavik was half-Vulcan, half-Romulan. And it's a shame they lost her. (From what I've read, Kirstie and Shatner didn't get along. Robin Curtis was hot on Night Court, but made a terrible replacement Saavik, IMHO.)
#21
Old 11-14-2015, 05:31 PM
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...Cheers is one of my all-time favourite programmes. I can take or leave Frasier: I'd watch it if it were on, but it never really grabbed me.
#22
Old 11-14-2015, 05:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Jophiel View Post
Guess I'll be the first odd duck to say that I loved Cheers but never really got into Fraiser.
Me, too. I don't mind Frasier, but Cheers was sublime, one of my top sitcoms of all-time.
#23
Old 11-14-2015, 06:35 PM
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Originally Posted by What Exit? View Post
Good point, T'Pau was awesome, but Kirstie/Saavik > Arlene Martel/T'Pring
Well, as long as we've derailed this bad boy, in for a penny, in for a pound:

Celia Lovsky/T'Pau > Dame Judith Anderson/Vulcan High Priestess* > Kirstie/Saavik** > Any other actress/Every other Vulcan female in any version > Winona Ryder/Spock's mom > Da end

*ST III: Search for Spock (very close race with Lovsky)
**I'll give you this one for now--would you lie to me? 'Course not.

Last edited by burpo the wonder mutt; 11-14-2015 at 06:38 PM.
#24
Old 11-14-2015, 08:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by burpo the wonder mutt View Post
Well, as long as we've derailed this bad boy, in for a penny, in for a pound:

Celia Lovsky/T'Pau > Dame Judith Anderson/Vulcan High Priestess* > Kirstie/Saavik** > Any other actress/Every other Vulcan female in any version > Winona Ryder/Spock's mom > Da end
Wait a minute! If you're going to put Winona Ryder in there, then you also have to put in Jane Wyatt as the original mother of the original Spock.

In which case it's Celia Lovsky>Jane Wyatt>etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Norm!
Well, I suppose that proves that the coyote's the Antichrist!
Anyway, back to the original question. Fraiser was witty and sophisticated. Cheers could be witty and sophisticated, but also laugh-out-loud funny.

Last edited by kunilou; 11-14-2015 at 08:59 PM.
#25
Old 11-14-2015, 09:53 PM
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Originally Posted by kunilou View Post
Wait a minute! If you're going to put Winona Ryder in there, then you also have to put in Jane Wyatt as the original mother of the original Spock.

In which case it's Celia Lovsky>Jane Wyatt>etc.
<snip>

That's fine, excellent choice. Ryder was put last to imply she was the worst actress playing a Vulcan woman of the entire ST universe.
#26
Old 11-15-2015, 12:43 AM
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So many episodes of Frasier had plots that, I swear, were stolen from old opéra bouffe and operettas. Especially the "Ski Lodge" episode. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

Cheers was ok, but it didn't have David Hyde Pierce.
#27
Old 11-15-2015, 04:34 AM
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I liked both shows but I give the edge to "Cheers" over "Frasier".

(Of course that may be due the fact that I had an irrational and inexplicable crush on Shelley Long but I don't want to get too deep into the matter.)
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#28
Old 11-15-2015, 04:50 AM
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I just never got into Cheers for some reason, but Shelly Long was definitely the best thing about it as far as I was concerned.
#29
Old 11-15-2015, 05:00 AM
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Cheers is a better ensemble, with funnier quickfire gags. But Frasier was better structured, with stronger characterisation.
#30
Old 11-15-2015, 05:27 AM
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Cheers is by a long way my all time favorite sitcom. It was just about perfect in every regard. I recall once I was accompanying my wife out of town where she was conducting her own seminars. Other than a bit of housekeeping, shepherding and problem solving I didn't have much to do. Sitting in the hotel room I flicked channels and found Cheers. It was an episode I had seen before but I watched anyway and it was laugh out loud funny. The next night we arrived back home late and turned on the TV to find the local station playing the exact same episode of Cheers. So one day later I watched it again and it was still funny.

I think by the time Frasier peaked I had mostly stopped religiously watching shows week after week and although I caught the odd episode and thought each one excellent I probably watched less than 20 in all. Still I guess nowadays a big, big binge watch could be a good idea.
#31
Old 11-15-2015, 05:48 AM
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Originally Posted by burpo the wonder mutt View Post
<snip>

That's fine, excellent choice. Ryder was put last to imply she was the worst actress playing a Vulcan woman of the entire ST universe.
But isn't Spock's mother human?

Anyway, back to the original question: Cheers was good, but Frasier was just about the best ever (at least until season 9 or so).
#32
Old 11-15-2015, 07:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Uniqueorn View Post
But isn't Spock's mother human?
Yes, as was his stepmother.
#33
Old 11-15-2015, 07:13 AM
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Cheers had Lilith. No she wasn't the prettiest girl at the ball, but damn if she didn't ooze sex appeal.
#34
Old 11-15-2015, 09:46 AM
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If it wasn't for stupid Sam/Diane romance I would pick Cheers. Because of that I choose Frasier.
#35
Old 11-15-2015, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Grrr! View Post
Cheers had Lilith. No she wasn't the prettiest girl at the ball, but damn if she didn't ooze sex appeal.
Bebe Neuwirth is quite beautiful in real life. She was just made up to look creepy on Cheers! I knew the first time I saw her that she'd turn out to be gorgeous when she let her hair down, and sure enough, she was soon dancing barefoot on a bed for Sam. At that point, I went "Oooooooooooh, yeah!"
#36
Old 11-15-2015, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by burpo the wonder mutt View Post
Bring back Celia Lovsky!
My wife had an old Bonanza rerun on the other day. I was in the kitchen, and, at one point, my ears perked up and I said, "That's T'Pau!". A quick google confirmed that the character, a Mexican grand dame, was indeed Celia Lovsky. Her voice was unmistakable.

By the way, did you know she was married to Peter Lorre?
#37
Old 11-15-2015, 10:24 AM
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Frasier. A thousand times better than Cheers, IMO.
#38
Old 11-15-2015, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by BrotherCadfael View Post
My wife had an old Bonanza rerun on the other day. I was in the kitchen, and, at one point, my ears perked up and I said, "That's T'Pau!". A quick google confirmed that the character, a Mexican grand dame, was indeed Celia Lovsky. Her voice was unmistakable.

By the way, did you know she was married to Peter Lorre?
That little tidbit just went into the trivia vault. Much obliged.

The '60s and '70s were rife with that; almost any show would have a guest star that you knew from another show--"Rockford Files," in particular, was good for this.


My favorite Frasier joke, bar none: when Jane Leeves was pregnant, they had Daphne put on alotta weight and eventually go to the fat farm. Once, Daphne was on the floor and needed help getting up, so Niles, Frasier and Martin had to put their backs into it, when Martin says:
SPOILER:
It took three Cranes to lift her.
Two seconds for the joke to sink in, and then I was on the floor.

Last edited by burpo the wonder mutt; 11-15-2015 at 11:07 AM.
#39
Old 11-15-2015, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by BrotherCadfael View Post
By the way, did you know she was married to Peter Lorre?
Yes, and she was the Frau of John Banner* in 36 Hours.

*Aka Sgt Schultz on Hogan's Heroes.
#40
Old 11-15-2015, 11:19 AM
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Celia had quite an impressive filmography, in fact:

http://imdb.com/name/nm0522767/
#41
Old 11-15-2015, 10:28 PM
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I liked both, but I'll have to give the edge to Frasier. It still makes me laugh.
#42
Old 11-16-2015, 01:54 AM
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Frasier. I didn't really watch either of them when they were airing, but I caught Frasier in reruns and got my son addicted to it, too. Didn't hate Cheers but didn't really connect. Maybe most of the humor was for the time, and Frasier's is evergreen? Or something.
#43
Old 11-16-2015, 02:28 AM
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Cheers went through a few phases, with emphases on different characters, a changing cast, and a drift from more dramatic storylines (mostly Sam and Diane's romance) to broader character humor, whereas Frasier seemed to be fairly consistent for most of its run.

I appreciate the variety of Cheers reruns: two favorites are the episode where Cliff competes on Jeopardy and Frasier's performance as a clown.

While I liked Carla (and the actress who plays her), I didn't like some of the stereotypical humor they used - its really dated now.
#44
Old 11-16-2015, 05:21 AM
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Originally Posted by terentii View Post
Nitpick: Saavik was half-Vulcan, half-Romulan. And it's a shame they lost her. (From what I've read, Kirstie and Shatner didn't get along. Robin Curtis was hot on Night Court, but made a terrible replacement Saavik, IMHO.)
I was going to say that this was only in the books (as the scene was cut), but it seems it was in the script elsewhere, and Memory Alpha politics are keeping her labeled as just a Vulcan.

And I say Frasier. Cheers had a weird vibe to it. I think it may be just because it was an '80s sitcom, as a lot them seemed to have it. I don't know how to describe it, other than to say there was some weird undercurrent to the humor. It didn't make it a bad show, mind you. But Frasier didn't have it, so I enjoyed it more.
#45
Old 11-16-2015, 12:57 PM
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Another Cheers vote. I can watch those reruns constantly. But while I watched (and appreciated) Frasier in its original run, I have absolutely no interest in revisiting any episode now.
#46
Old 11-16-2015, 01:31 PM
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I guess none of the characters in Frasier really appealed to me. Frasier was sort of the oddball on Cheers but Niles had to out-oddball Frasier to makes Frasier a straight man for his own show. Roz, Daphne and Martin never struck a chord with me (certainly not in the same way as Woody, Cliff and Norm) so while I found the show watchable enough it never wormed its way into my heart.

Last edited by Jophiel; 11-16-2015 at 01:32 PM. Reason: Managed to spell "Frasier" wrong every single time
#47
Old 11-16-2015, 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Jophiel View Post
I guess none of the characters in Frasier really appealed to me. Frasier was sort of the oddball on Cheers but Niles had to out-oddball Frasier to makes Frasier a straight man for his own show. Roz, Daphne and Martin never struck a chord with me (certainly not in the same way as Woody, Cliff and Norm) so while I found the show watchable enough it never wormed its way into my heart.
Good point. Roz, Martin and Daphne were always more plot devices than characters for a long time.

If Frasier was going to have scenes at work, he needs someone to play off of. Hence, Roz.

Frasier mostly associates with people of his class and taste. So blue collar Martin was a device to (transparently) insert conflict at home.

Daphne was a device from the start to give Niles a love interest/tension arc.

True, these people all were eventually (inevitably, given how long the series ran) fleshed out, but they never had the resonance or the effortless dynamic of the bar crowd. They were there mostly just to give the main character brothers something to do.
#48
Old 11-16-2015, 03:27 PM
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I watched Frasier. I never bothered with Cheers.
#49
Old 11-16-2015, 03:43 PM
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I definitely watched more episodes of Cheers than of Frasier. I appreciated Frasier and I like how Kelsey Grammar evoked Jack Benny in his performance but it did bug me that this supposedly brilliant doctor was always wrong. I guess that was the point. In any case, much of it was timing but I liked Cheers much more than Frasier.
#50
Old 11-16-2015, 05:00 PM
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Put me in the Cheers > Frasier camp, too.
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