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#1
Old 09-29-2016, 11:00 AM
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Post your experiences with melatonin

Mostly along the lines of: did it help?

I've always had some minor issues with sleep but lately (maybe for the past year) I never feel rested and I think the quality of my sleep is just not very good. Either I can't fall asleep, can't stay asleep, or wake up really early. I get ok results from a diphenhydramine pill but I don't like the way it makes me feel in the morning.

I had a sleep study (quite a few years ago) and they concluded I did not have sleep apnea.
I tried melatonin around the same time and don't recall it doing anything, but I'm certainly willing to try again.
#2
Old 09-29-2016, 11:03 AM
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My husband also feels that he just doesn't get a deep, restful sleep on his own. He feels that melatonin improves his quality of sleep.

I used to use it when I had a martial arts class late in the evening that left me too pepped up to sleep. It worked like a charm to put me out, but I would wake up in the middle of the night and have to fall asleep all over again.
#3
Old 09-29-2016, 11:12 AM
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It seems to help a bit for me. The effect is mild enough that I'm not sure it's not just placebo, but if so, well, that's OK too.
#4
Old 09-29-2016, 11:21 AM
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I am pretty sensitive to it, so I have to take a minute portion to not be groggy the next day. On the plus side that grogginess comes with a free side of calmness and centered feeling, but still makes it difficult to think quickly. If I take just a crumble of a pill, far less than a quarter of a pill, then I am not groggy the next day, and it is only slightly less effective at putting me to sleep.
#5
Old 09-29-2016, 11:24 AM
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I have terrible insomnia. I take something on a regular basis to help me sleep-- it's an epilepsy medication, but I take a subclinical dose for seizures, and I take it at 5pm. My problem according to a sleep study is that I sleep so lightly going into REM sleep often startles me awake.

I also have a problem with falling asleep just because I have so much anxiety around going to bed and the possibility that I might not sleep. I take 5mg of melatonin 1/2 hour before going to bed.

I also go to bed at the EXACT same time every night, to the extent I can control it. I have prescriptions for Ambien and Klonopin as PRN (take as needed) because sometimes I get off schedule, and sometimes I just have extra-bad nights.

I don't think that melatonin is a placebo, because I have had autistic clients who took it-- many autistic people are deficient in melatonin, and have trouble sleeping. The stuff works like magic, and these are low-language people who don't know they're being given a medicine for sleep.

However, apnea is a breathing problem. I don't know that it would be a good idea to try to induce a deeper sleep for someone with apnea-- as I understand it, people with apnea wake up to get their breathing started. I would experiment with things that help you sleep in a particular position-- for example, if elevating you head a little helps, get a reading pillow that elevates your head; if side sleeping helps, get a body pillow to keep you from rolling onto your back.

If none of those work, ask your doctor about CPAP.

You could also ask the doctor about melatonin, and if he OKs it, that's another thing, but I'd really run it by my doctor first if I had apnea.
#6
Old 09-29-2016, 11:26 AM
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It works well for me but holy cow does it give me odd dreams. Not bad dreams, per se, just really detailed, vivid ones. Another plus, it does not leave me groggy the next morning.
#7
Old 09-29-2016, 11:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ludovic View Post
I am pretty sensitive to it, so I have to take a minute portion to not be groggy the next day. On the plus side that grogginess comes with a free side of calmness and centered feeling, but still makes it difficult to think quickly. If I take just a crumble of a pill, far less than a quarter of a pill, then I am not groggy the next day, and it is only slightly less effective at putting me to sleep.
Thanks, Ludovic-- are you talking about a 5mg pill? So you take like maybe 1mg?

WOOKINPANUB, I already have detailed, vivid dreams most nights-- so I guess I'd better steel myself for a wild ride!

Last edited by amaguri; 09-29-2016 at 11:48 AM. Reason: condense reply
#8
Old 09-29-2016, 11:52 AM
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I take it occasionally when I have had several successive bad nights. It relaxes me enough that I can drop off within half an hour.

But it does absolutely nothing for my husband. I don't know if he needs a higher dose or I'm particularly sensitive to it. The bottle in my cabinet is now 2 years past its Use By date, but it still does the trick.
#9
Old 09-29-2016, 12:12 PM
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Melatonin helps those who are melatonin deficient. It doesn't help anyone else.

Your brain makes melatonin during the day when bright light, like sunlight, reaches your pineal gland. It releases that melatonin at night. Some people who spend most of their days indoors may be deficient in their naturally occurring melatonin on a regular basis. This may be why people tend to sleep better when they're camping, even if they haven't been doing vigorous activity during the day.

If you're not melatonin deficient, melatonin won't help.
#10
Old 09-29-2016, 12:42 PM
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When I first got into this business I struggled with the weird hours and sleeping in strange places and with short nights where we had to go from working hard to sound asleep in 45 minutes to have a chance for barely 7 hours sleep before getting up to do another 12-14 hour workday.

I tried melatonin. Can't remember the dosage, whatever was typical for drugstore brand in the early 90s.

So I tried it on some of those short nights straight from work to bed. It promptly knocked out one half of my brain. The other half was still racing from the workday. It felt like being trapped in the half-awake / half-asleep state that we normally slide through in just a few seconds with little recollection of the transition. This was long-lasting and lucid.

It was weird and mildly unpleasant. When all was said and done my impression was that I didn't sleep any better or more rested with it than without.

But I did learn a bit about the various subsections in my brain/mind and how the parts conspire to make up the whole.

After about 5 nights of these experiments over a month or so I pitched the rest of the bottle. Haven't tried it again since, nor felt the need. As an experiment it seemed/seems harmless and satisfied some of my curiosity. But as a sleep aid it seemed pointless, at least for my particular use case.

Last edited by LSLGuy; 09-29-2016 at 12:46 PM.
#11
Old 09-29-2016, 01:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhyNot View Post
Melatonin helps those who are melatonin deficient. It doesn't help anyone else.

Your brain makes melatonin during the day when bright light, like sunlight, reaches your pineal gland. It releases that melatonin at night. Some people who spend most of their days indoors may be deficient in their naturally occurring melatonin on a regular basis. This may be why people tend to sleep better when they're camping, even if they haven't been doing vigorous activity during the day.

If you're not melatonin deficient, melatonin won't help.
AIUI, totally blind people have a major problem with melatonin deficiency, since their visual system never shows a "it's daylight now" scene to the brain.
#12
Old 09-29-2016, 01:36 PM
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I used to take it when I worked nights and had to go to bed at 2pm. I still had to stop eating, draw the curtains, put down the screens, and start winding down at least 2 hours before bed. If I didn't have at least 7 hours to sleep I'd be very foggy after waking up. I took a 3mg fast dissolving pill.

I found Celestial Seasonings Peach Sleepytime Tea or Yogi Soothing Caramel Bedtime Tea more effective with less fogginess. Winding down properly was still required. YMMV
#13
Old 09-29-2016, 01:39 PM
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It's like magic for me and my 11 year old daughter. Both of us have a hard time getting to sleep. It's a constant battle to keep our sleep schedule, but 2.5 mg of melatonin from Spring Valley puts us down for a solid six hours at least and I've never felt groggy. I mention the brand because some brands have no effect at all. I buy 5 mg and half them, one for each of us. It takes about an hour and we're both too groggy to function as long as we turn out the lights and maybe read or watch a show. I've noticed that if I take it and something requires me to function I will be able to easily snap out of it unlike with ambien or benadryl. I never feel thick in the morning with melatonin either.

I have noticed if I take a full tablet, 5 mg. I will have very strange dreams. Never bad ones though.

We've been taking it off and on for about three years. I can go to sleep for a while without it but if my schedule is disturbed for more than a weekend I will need it to get back on track.

My 27 year old took it a few times with absolutely no effect at all.
#14
Old 09-29-2016, 01:42 PM
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I used it when I worked third shift. I had, and still have, no problem staying up all night. My body just never wants to go to sleep once the sun comes up. Two days of that, while working with heavy machinery, meant something had to change.
#15
Old 09-29-2016, 02:09 PM
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I find it is mostly useful for resetting sleep schedules.

I am naturally a night person, and generally feel most tired and ready to go to bed as the sun is coming up. That worked fine when I worked second shift, but the last several years, I have had to actually get up in the morning.

It is not hard for me to get off schedule, and start staying up till 2,3, even 4 in the morning without feeling like sleeping.

That's when I use melatonin. I take maybe 5 of the 3 mg tablets, usually just for a couple of nights, to get my sleep schedule back on track. Works pretty damn well. If it is particularly hard to get to sleep, I may wash it down with a beer.

Once I am going to be before midnight again, I am usually good for a month or so before my schedule starts slipping later and later again.
#16
Old 09-29-2016, 03:42 PM
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Does absolutely nothing for me.
#17
Old 09-29-2016, 04:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enola Gay View Post
Does absolutely nothing for me.
This is my experience as well.
#18
Old 09-29-2016, 04:43 PM
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I find that it works for about 30 minutes and then wears off. By itself, that isn't enough to put me to sleep (except for the 30 minutes), but paired with phenibut and/or theanine, I can get a full night's sleep. Those two supplements allow your brain to slow down enough for sleep, but don't actually trigger sleep. Melatonin triggers sleep, but doesn't slow the brain down. You need to do a mix to get the full effect.

If you try phenibut, though, be aware that it has a similar usage profile to caffeine. You'll gain a tolerance to it if you use it for more than a couple of days at a time, and you'll suffer a headache if you stop taking it after gaining tolerance. So you can really only use the stuff once or twice a week for full effect.

Theanine is less effective but I think maybe escapes the tolerance issue (I'm not sure).

Either way, I've found that getting the once or twice a week deep sleep is pretty good.

A guy I worked with tried it and the combo didn't work for him. But he's also 23 and lives in constant stress, so I suspect that the dosage was too low for him or just that the effects are too small to deal with the raging hormones of a 23 year old. But it is conceivable that if these don't work for you that modifying the dosage may work out. You'll just want to do some research to see if there's any recommended upper limit to try out.

Last edited by Sage Rat; 09-29-2016 at 04:45 PM.
#19
Old 09-29-2016, 06:17 PM
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First night I took it, it worked great. After that, it got less and less effective. In addition, I started getting some really bad side effects (weird pains and uncomfortablness/tightness in the torso, occasionlly leading to really bad vomitting) after taking it a while. I'd much rather deal with the groggy next day of Benadryl than go through that again.
#20
Old 09-29-2016, 06:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WOOKINPANUB View Post
It works well for me but holy cow does it give me odd dreams. Not bad dreams, per se, just really detailed, vivid ones. Another plus, it does not leave me groggy the next morning.
Same here. Works, but vivid dreams.

And it does not make you drowsy, so you could drive after taking one. Maybe not the best idea, of course....
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#21
Old 09-29-2016, 06:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ludovic View Post
I am pretty sensitive to it, so I have to take a minute portion to not be groggy the next day. On the plus side that grogginess comes with a free side of calmness and centered feeling, but still makes it difficult to think quickly. If I take just a crumble of a pill, far less than a quarter of a pill, then I am not groggy the next day, and it is only slightly less effective at putting me to sleep.
You can get liquid melatonin, marketed for children.
#22
Old 09-29-2016, 06:52 PM
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I find it can be a burden sometimes-- like when the police shoot first and ask questions later, plus it doesn't even keep me from getting sunburned.

Oh wait. You said melatonin. Sorry. Carry on.
#23
Old 09-29-2016, 06:55 PM
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Melatonin has always helped, a bit, the first week or so but always declines to virtual ineffectiveness very rapidly. IME.
#24
Old 09-29-2016, 09:01 PM
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Had a bad jet-lag experience last time back from Europe - after a week, my sleep cycle was still all over the place and not getting better.

Forced myself into bed at 10.00 at night, took the melatonin, slept great - 8-9 hours. Body clock all reset. It could have been co-incidence, since it should take about a bit over a week to fully recover from the jet-lag, but it seemed like I was getting nowhere, and then suddenly - fixed!

Bloody awful hangover next day, though.
#25
Old 09-29-2016, 09:06 PM
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Your mileage may totally vary. I use not more than 1mg melatonin. I find that it helps speed the onset of sleep, and then I wake up fully rested after about 3 hours. This isn't what I want and probably not what most people want, but there's a data point for you.
#26
Old 09-29-2016, 09:12 PM
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Melatonin doesn't put me to sleep, but a 300 microgram dose relaxes me enough that it's usually pretty easy to drop off to sleep.

Important to note, that many commercially available doses are at least 10 times the recommended dosage. The too high doses of melatonin can cause next day grogginess and also burn out the brain's melatonin receptors, so those dosages cease to be effective after a few days.
#27
Old 09-29-2016, 10:19 PM
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I've tried it three times and I always have ended up with the same result regardless of dosage: I sleep even worse than without it. Instead of waking up every 90 to 120 minutes, I wake up every 45 to 60 minutes.

While it's supposed to work really, really well with kids with autism, apparently making you sleep even more poorly isn't unheard of if you have ADHD.
#28
Old 09-29-2016, 10:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDeth View Post
Same here. Works, but vivid dreams.

And it does not make you drowsy, so you could drive after taking one. Maybe not the best idea, of course....
Vivid dreams are probably part of the "working." Part of my insomnia is that I can sleep for eight hours without getting any REM sleep, and wake up the next morning feeling like I barely slept at all. On the other hand, with the right mix of medications, I sometimes sleep only six or seven hours, but have bizarre and vivid dreams much of the night, and wake up feeling refreshed and ready for the day.

Also, if I have a couple of bad nights in a row where I sleep just three or four hours, the first night I fall asleep, I go into REM sleep with vivid dreams much of the night, and wake up "caught up" on sleep, even if I slept just nine hours.

REM sleep, the time when you dream, is the crucial part of sleep for feeling refreshed in the morning, somehow. Someone explained it all to me once-- and REM isn't completely the be all and end all of sleep-- there is a time when you are using up a hormone called adenosine, (which is what caffeine mimics, and therefore blocks), and not exhausting all your adenosine can make you wake up groggy, but IIRC, in the short term, missing REM sleep is what most contributes to making you feel like crap. It's the reason passing out from alcohol and "sleeping"/being passed out for nine or ten hours can result in you still feeling groggy in the morning, because alcohol disrupts REM sleep. Melatonin helps you get more REM sleep, somehow-- I don't remember how. It binds with receptors, I think.
#29
Old 09-30-2016, 01:03 AM
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Sundown Naturals 5mg melatonin (pricey) knocks me out fast but I will get the vivid dreams others mentioned and it took two of them to make it nearly possible to sleep through menopausal hot flashes.
Now that I take HRT and no longer have hot flashes, I also switched to the melatonin blend Costco carries by Schiff (much cheaper); it's 3 mg melatonin along w/ extracts of chamomile and valerian root as well as Gamma-aminobutyric acid, L-Theanine, vitamin B6 and dicalcium phosphate. I do not get vivid dreams, it takes a little longer to fall asleep (up to an hour) but I usually get a solid 7 hours. They smell a little funny but only for a second.
#30
Old 09-30-2016, 02:17 AM
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Mixing a low does of melatonin with valarian root works for me. The valarian seems to slow the overactive brain and the melatonin let's you drop off. It might be sugar pills but I'll take it if it works.
#31
Old 09-30-2016, 03:46 AM
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Godawful headache the next day every time I have tried it. I use valerian a bit and have some phenibut hanging around but need to take that about 5 hours before bedtime on an empty stomach for it to work, it is great to listen to trance music with after a couple of hours though. I don't usually have too much trouble getting to sleep now I have addressed a magnesium deficiency, it is staying asleep that is my issue.
#32
Old 09-30-2016, 06:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TBG View Post
First night I took it, it worked great. After that, it got less and less effective. In addition, I started getting some really bad side effects (weird pains and uncomfortablness/tightness in the torso, occasionlly leading to really bad vomitting) after taking it a while. I'd much rather deal with the groggy next day of Benadryl than go through that again.
I had a similar experience with weird side effects. It seemed miraculous at first, but then I would get this feeling like a vein or something was bursting in my head, especially when I walked up stairs. It was quite scary! I quit and that feeling went away instantly.

But I tend to get side effects from stuff quite easily.
#33
Old 09-30-2016, 07:38 AM
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Only works if I use 0.3 mg. The argument is that the extra stuff gets converted into something else, and that can keep you awake.

Absolutely no feeling of drowsiness. Just take it at about 20 minutes before the point when you're natural melatonin should have kicked in.
#34
Old 09-30-2016, 07:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhyNot View Post
Melatonin helps those who are melatonin deficient. It doesn't help anyone else.

Your brain makes melatonin during the day when bright light, like sunlight, reaches your pineal gland. It releases that melatonin at night. Some people who spend most of their days indoors may be deficient in their naturally occurring melatonin on a regular basis. This may be why people tend to sleep better when they're camping, even if they haven't been doing vigorous activity during the day.

If you're not melatonin deficient, melatonin won't help.
This.


Quote:
Originally Posted by WOOKINPANUB View Post
It works well for me but holy cow does it give me odd dreams.
But also this.

Sometimes I'll take a combination of Melatonin, choline, 5HTP, and a mega dose of vitamin B6 before bed time just for the fucked up dreams. It's an absolute blast.

Keep in mind that none of those things actually cause the dreams, they just help you remember the crazy shit that's already zipping through your brain while you sleep.
#35
Old 09-30-2016, 09:00 PM
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Originally Posted by amaguri View Post
Thanks, Ludovic-- are you talking about a 5mg pill? So you take like maybe 1mg?

WOOKINPANUB, I already have detailed, vivid dreams most nights-- so I guess I'd better steel myself for a wild ride!
Quote:
Originally Posted by nearwildheaven View Post
You can get liquid melatonin, marketed for children.
3 mg, the smallest dose I can find. Haven't seen liquid melatonin but Ill keep an eye out for it.
#36
Old 09-30-2016, 10:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ludovic View Post
3 mg, the smallest dose I can find. Haven't seen liquid melatonin but Ill keep an eye out for it.
I found 300 microgram doses on a 6-hour time-release on Amazon, I've been trying them out, seems to be helping some, but I still need to keep testing.
#37
Old 10-01-2016, 10:14 PM
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I can feel the drowsiness coming on, right on cue, fall asleep nicely then exactly 4 hours later I'm wide awake. So, didn't really work for me since I didn't want to sleep in four hours spurts.
#38
Old 10-02-2016, 07:05 AM
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Originally Posted by sitchensis View Post
Mixing a low does of melatonin with valarian root works for me. The valarian seems to slow the overactive brain and the melatonin let's you drop off. It might be sugar pills but I'll take it if it works.
I haven't taken melatonin in years because I think I developed a *habit* with it, so to speak. I hit a wall with it where it didn't work anymore unless I took a double dose. I did that once. Never again.

I work in the very early AM hours and sometimes can't/don't get to bed at a reasonable time. I take valerian, which isn't habit forming. One dose and I'm dead to the world within a half hour. It won't work if I'm really keyed up. That's when I take a generic "PM without the pain reliever".
#39
Old 10-02-2016, 11:17 AM
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Both hubby and I use it on a regular basis to fall asleep fast. No side effects, from what we've noticed


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#40
Old 10-02-2016, 02:35 PM
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I've tried different formulations of it and have never had any relief.
#41
Old 10-03-2016, 12:51 PM
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I tried it over the weekend and... it may have helped?

I slept ok, certainly no miracles, but it was also under unusual circumstances (out of town this weekend) so the fact that I slept even ok is pretty good for me. I will continue for now and see how things progress.
#42
Old 10-03-2016, 05:38 PM
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My experience with Melatonin is that it makes me feel a bit sleepy in a 10-20 minute window after taking it. If I don't fall asleep in that time period, I'll probably be up for the long haul. The other part of my experience with it is that, after sleeping really well for 4-5 hours. I will come wide awake again for an hour before falling back asleep for another 1/2 to 2 hours.

I took it for several years but discovered diminishing returns on the effect when I went into depression so I stopped. The antidepressants I eventually went on made up for it. I'm all good now and I just count myself lucky.
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