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#1
Old 08-08-2001, 05:51 PM
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This morning on the way to work, I was changing through radio stations and heard a few minutes of the local broadcast of the Howard Stern Show. Apparently they were fielding calls from listeners to discuss their incestuous experiences. A caller came on the air to talk about how, when he was a boy growing up in Beijing, his mother used to fellate him as a reward for doing well in school. He said that this occurred about once a month from as far back as he could remember, until he moved to the USA at about age 13. The caller claimed that this was a common practise in China. Others on the show claimed to have heard/read something about this also occurring in Japan, in a sense trying to lend credibility to this guy's claim. The rationale was that this "release" allowed the boys to maintain proper focus on schoolwork.

Does this have any basis in reality? It just seems to "shock jock" to be true. I am even a bit embarrassed just to post this as a question, sorry in advance if anyone is offended by the nature of this question.
#2
Old 08-08-2001, 07:09 PM
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I did a quick search on Google but couldn't find anything relevent... assuming this isn't a put on, which considering the source it very well may be... I find it hard to believe that this is a "common" practice in Asia and nobody is aware of it.

Also, it's pretty disturbing to think that this actually could go on in the first place. Why would mothers do this? It doesn't make any sense to a westerner like me and sounds like 50's anti-communist propaganda to me..
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#3
Old 08-08-2001, 08:31 PM
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OK, everyone, on 3:

1...2...3...

EWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!
#4
Old 08-08-2001, 08:36 PM
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People will believe anything. When I lived in Japan 1991-1994, I remember ONE newspaper report that basically said what you're talking about.

I live/have lived in China for a long time, and this is not something that I have ever heard of.

I'm sure if you dug around the US, certainly cases of this type of behavior could be found. That is not to say that this is common or accepted practice in the US or other countries including Japan and China.
#5
Old 08-08-2001, 08:41 PM
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Urban Legend alert

I should be astonished that someone would actually believe an anonymous phone caller on the Stern show. But I'm not.
#6
Old 08-08-2001, 08:51 PM
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Trust me, I am a fair-minded skeptic, not even prone to listening to the Howard Stern Show. However, I would like to find out more about this, with hope that the data supports refutation.

But its clear that there are a large number of people out there who take whatever they hear in the media without inclination to search out the truth. And I am curious to find out about this alleged newspaper report and from whence it comes.
#7
Old 08-08-2001, 08:55 PM
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Well, let me rephrase that. I am astonished that someone would give ANY credence to a caller on the Stern show, especially someone boasting about having sex with their mother.
I've heard this sort of story many times in my years of studying Japanese culture and language, it comes up almost as often as the old UL about Japanese women's vaginal orifices being horizontal instead of vertical. It's just another piece of racial propaganda.
#8
Old 08-08-2001, 09:08 PM
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The caller claimed he was Chinese, not Japanese, but I am guessing it's more claptrap from the same tree. Its the first time I had heard anything like this, so I didn't have any idea where this could come from.
#9
Old 08-08-2001, 09:20 PM
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I can see where a UL might have originated about Japan. Take the following factors:

1) Many Japanese marriages are at least partly arranged.
2) The majority of Japanese wives are homemakers, or at most have part-time jobs.
3) Middle-class workers tend to have very long commutes - 1.5 or 2 hours each way is common.
4) Japanese culture is very child-focused. The good side is that Japanese children don't seem to suffer from the same loneliness and anomie common in the U.S. The bad side is that the pressure to succeed can become all-consuming.
5) It's still pretty acceptable for married Japanese men to have girlfriends (or occasionally, boyfriends), provided it's kept officially hidden from neighbors and children.

Add that all together, and the stereotypical middle-class family includes a mother who expends most of her energy on her children, since the husband is often physically (if not emotionally) absent. We can see how someone might stretch this to include incest.

Which is slanderous, but when has that stopped anybody?
#10
Old 08-08-2001, 09:41 PM
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Not sure it's really an urban legend.

I'm trying to remember the source but I do remember reading in some article, somewhere in some quasi-historical scholarly context that, in the past, it was common practice for Chinese nannys to hold an infant boy's member in their mouth to get them to calm down and stop crying (I don't know if you call it "fellatio" in that non-sexual context).
#11
Old 08-08-2001, 10:52 PM
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- - - Racial and ethnic discrimination is not accepted on these boards, and it would be silly to accept so outrageous a rumor as fact, and culturally insensitive to dismiss it as simple perversion even if it is true.
- As such, if anybody can steer me towards a Chinese or Japanese nanny in the St Louis area, say, mid-twenties, slim but with big hooters, I shall investigate the matter fully as soon as possible. - MC
#12
Old 08-08-2001, 11:26 PM
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http://psychohistory.com/htm/06a1_incest.html

Quote:
Western observers even today often notice that Japanese mothers still masturbate their young children during the day in public and at night in the family bed - in order, they say, "to put them to sleep."(156) The average Japanese today sleeps with his or her children until the children are ten or fifteen years old,"(157) - one recent Japanese study found daughters still sleeping with their fathers over 20 percent of the time even after age sixteen.(158) Even when the home contains a dozen rooms or more, parents and grandparents feel "lonely" if they sleep apart from
the children in the family, and therefore go to bed with some child every night (the mean age in one study of children sleeping alone is 12.7 years).(159) Since so many families still practice what is termed dakine co-sleeping - with the parent or grandparent sleeping while physically embracing the child, a practice said to be beneficial to the health of the adult"(160) - and since most Japanese parents still regularly have sexual in-tercourse while the child is in bed with them,(161) one wonders how scholars can continue to maintain that nothing sexual usually happens to the Japanese child in the family bed, particularly since none have yet ask-ed the children themselves about their sexual experiences.
how's that for your UL..
#13
Old 08-09-2001, 01:05 AM
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Well, I skimmed the article in the link you provided. Personally, I think its bunk, irrespective of the citations given. So does my sister-in-law who is Japanese*, however, she also doesn't object to being referred to as "Oriental" so maybe she doesn't know what shes talking about.

Al.

*From Japan I mean, as opposed to being Canadian born with Japanese heritage.
#14
Old 08-09-2001, 08:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by ShibbOleth
The caller claimed he was Chinese, not Japanese, but I am guessing it's more claptrap from the same tree. Its the first time I had heard anything like this, so I didn't have any idea where this could come from.
FWIW, the last time I heard this, it was Japanese and, at the time, the supposed rationale behind it was not the "release" per se, but that it was an attempt by the mother to help her son ignore the distraction of girls. There was a thread on another MB that pretty much decided that it was all a bunch of rubbish, but I've long since forgotten where that was. Sorry.
#15
Old 08-09-2001, 09:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by astro
Not sure it's really an urban legend.

I'm trying to remember the source but I do remember reading in some article, somewhere in some quasi-historical scholarly context that, in the past, it was common practice for Chinese nannys to hold an infant boy's member in their mouth to get them to calm down and stop crying (I don't know if you call it "fellatio" in that non-sexual context).
A couple years ago, there was a criminal case where an Afghani immigrant in the U.S. was brought up on child molestation charges because he was kissing his infant son's penis to calm him down. At the trial, experts testified that this is common practice in Afghanistan. I believe he was found not guilty, but I don't remember.

This was the best cite I could find, but I do remember this being in the news: http://lectlaw.com/tsex.htm.

If it happens in Afghanistan, why not anywhere else? Although, I must reiterate my earlier EWWWWWWWW When I have kids, I'll just give 'em candy and videogames when they're good, thankyouverymuch.
#16
Old 08-09-2001, 10:02 AM
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Jeez, AkashJ, as a substitute for kissing their penises, you rot their teeth and their brains?

I'm callin' social services!
#17
Old 08-09-2001, 10:46 AM
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After a bit of insomnia-fueled Googling, I believe I have a few answers. According to this page, there was an early 80's/late 90's Japanese media scare regarding mother-son incest which was picked up by the Western tabloids. The story was appropriated by Japan-bashers, who opined that the incest was an indication of the dehumanizing effects of the crushingly competitive educational system and the mandatory absence of the husband from family life. This anti-Japan thread on the Free Repubic was met with appropriate skepticism, at least as far as the hummers from Mom were concerned. An apparently reliable source for reports of mother-son incest in Japan and the surrounding mythology is The Japanese Woman : Traditional Image and Changing Reality by Sumiko Iwao.

The author of the psychohistory article (emphasis on psycho) cited by onnanohito is an unusually prolific crackpot with a buffed-up Web presence. He believes that the vast majority of children worldwide (and throughout history) are victims of incest. He remains a proponent of the theory of Satanic Ritual Abuse (SRA), which has been quite thoroughly debunked. See ReligiousTolerance.orgon SRA or an FBI report.
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#18
Old 08-09-2001, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by onnanohito
how's that for your UL..
The "psychohistory" guy is a well-known crackpot amongst Asian Studies circles, and you should know that his opinions are particularly despised by scholars. Ignore his ranting.
#19
Old 08-09-2001, 12:04 PM
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- - - I'm still waiting on that Chinese/Japanese nanny, anybody? Anybody?
~
-maybe, also add "with poor eyesight"... - MC
#20
Old 08-09-2001, 12:37 PM
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I heard the shoe also. True or not it was funny to listen to. Did anyone hear the fught with Gary Busey?
#21
Old 08-09-2001, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by ninja_rydr
I heard the shoe also.
Crap! I must remember to proof read.
#22
Old 08-09-2001, 12:50 PM
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There was a discussion on snopes about this a few
months ago:

http://snopes2.com/cgi-bin/ultim...&f=16&t=000061

The didn't really come up with a conclusion - some believe
it, some don't.
#23
Old 08-09-2001, 03:56 PM
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The closest that I have ever come to fact on anything similar is this whacko tribe in Africa, where the men, scrawny guys, tend to live away from the women and have this oddball thing about sperm. While heterosexual, they jerk each other off and consume each other's sperm, feeling that it enhances their maleness. Obviously, they know nothing about homosexuals, which really needs to be looked into because it seems every other native peoples have some. They wed and have kids, but tend to spend most of their time doing manly things, like training for wars that don't often arise, hunting, fishing, making weapons, looking hairy and dusty and letting the women get stuck with everything else. Around the time a male child reaches puberty, he starts contributing his sperm to the 'warriors'. Yes, National Geographic did a special on them, .... carefully. (Can you imagine how many violations of 'civil and racial' rights are potentially easily violated there? You got to hand it to NG for doing it well enough not to piss anyone off.

You know, someday, someone with more brains than I need to start considering these whacko traditional and religious origins. Where did the first religion come from and what was the knuckle dragger thinking when he or she decided to worship whatever rock, stone, tree, weed, pond, river or rainfall for whatever reason? I can pretty well figure already how hallucinogenic drugs were quickly fitted in to some of these religions.
#24
Old 08-09-2001, 07:11 PM
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In the Philippines they have a tradition of

all family members kissing infant girls' pubes. I don't know if the custom extends to small boys. I know this because my wife is a Filipina.

I'll ask her about it and post more later.
#25
Old 08-09-2001, 07:25 PM
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I re3call, dimly, something about that tradition as well as one concerning Elians elderly relations opening his pants to examine his package for some reason.

What is it with primitive races and kid's packages?
#26
Old 08-09-2001, 07:46 PM
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"Primitive races"?

This is going to be fun.
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#27
Old 08-09-2001, 07:49 PM
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Re: In the Philippines they have a tradition of

Quote:
Originally posted by Mr. Duality
all family members kissing infant girls' pubes. I don't know if the custom extends to small boys. I know this because my wife is a Filipina.

I'll ask her about it and post more later.
Infant girls have pubes?
#28
Old 08-09-2001, 07:52 PM
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While I really doubt that incest is routinely practiced (it seems to be a univeral taboo, even among animals), it is true that Chinese children sleep with their mothers for quite a while. My sister-in-law (from an immigrant Chinese family) slept with her mother until she was somewhere around 10 years old.

Not that this is even peculiar to Chinese. My father (American) and his sister slept in the same bed until he or she (can't remember which) was 16.

It doesn't seem all that suprising. Not every family has money or space to give each child a separate bed.
#29
Old 08-09-2001, 08:36 PM
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Actually, incest is NOT taboo among animals.

AT least not for breeding-often in horses you can breed a father to a daughter or mother to son. It's the same with cats.
#30
Old 08-09-2001, 08:41 PM
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I think that human-directed breeding is besides the point. If that horse was in the wild, would it naturally breed with relatives?
#31
Old 08-09-2001, 09:52 PM
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Re: Re: In the Philippines they have a tradition of

Quote:
Originally posted by KKBattousai
Quote:
Originally posted by Mr. Duality
all family members kissing infant girls' pubes. I don't know if the custom extends to small boys. I know this because my wife is a Filipina.

I'll ask her about it and post more later.
Infant girls have pubes?
Maybe he meant pubis.


As fo the EliŠn incident, what can I say, grandmothers can get weird at times.

Josť.
#32
Old 08-09-2001, 10:09 PM
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- - - Or possibly any Chinese/Japanese grandmothers, too: that could happen as young as what, thirty? That could work...... - MC
#33
Old 08-09-2001, 10:51 PM
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Avumede: Yep, in the wild horses, lions, and other pack/herd/pride males will breed with offspring if they get the chance. Nature's little way of circumventing this, is that dominant males generally don't last long before getting ousted. Generally they spend most of their lives growing up and hitting their peak, maybe then move in too take over, then where down rapiudly and are in turn ousted. Usually in just a few years ( or sooner ). But some tough ones do hang on long enough to breed, at least once, with a daughter or three. In the grand scheme of things, the genetic damage probably isn't real significant.

I'm pretty sure that most mammals at least are pretty non-discriminating when it comes to kin. But there are a variety of mechanisms that keep inbreeding from getting too serious in a healthy, functioning ecosystem ( male pattern dispersal, et al ). It short-circuits sometimes, but occasional incest probably doesn't impair the species as a whole in any serious fashion. Where you get problems is with sudden population/genetic bottlenecks. This can leave a species vulnerable. Sometimes those bottlenecks are natural - I believe Cheetahs have very low genertic diversity. Sometimes they're not - Elephant Seals and Tule Elk in CA, among others.

- Tamerlane
#34
Old 08-09-2001, 10:54 PM
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where = wear, that was too idiotic not to correct . Please excuse all the other myriad errors as well. Thank you .

- Tamerlane
#35
Old 08-11-2001, 07:47 AM
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Here's a reference (sort of). The Mainichi Daily News has a weekly column (in English) called the WaiWai page, in which the writers translate the most titilating or outrageous stories from Japan's weekly magazines. These stories were recently compiled in a book titled Tokyo Confidential. The "Mother goes down so grades go up" story is included here, but all the sources (for this one, anyway) are third- or fourth-hand. Still, the book's an entertaining read.

FWIW, in this version the son was preparing for his high school entrance exams, when his mother discovered that he was spending all his time in his room masturbating instead of studying. She offered him fellatio once a night so that he would spend the rest of his time hitting the books. According to the story, he passed his exams.

--sublight
#36
Old 08-11-2001, 03:21 PM
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I'm overcome with the urge to sing some Tom Lehrer...

This is the story of Oedipus Rex,
You may have heard about his odd complex.
He's got his own place in Freud's index,
'Cause he loves his mother...


Geez louise, some people will believe ANYTHING.
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