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#1
Old 09-27-2001, 10:47 AM
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On Cheers it was established that Frasier's father was a dead scientist, and his mother was a domineering meddler (played by Nancy Marchand) who tried to murder Diane because she thought Diane wasn't good enough for her son.

That continuity was scrapped when Frasier was spun off into his own sitcom. Now it was his mother who was dead, and Frasier's dad was a living retired police detective. Frasier and Niles's dead mother was depicted in old home movies in one episode, played by Rita Wilson.

No big deal; both shows worked so I wasn't bothered by the changed continuity.

On this week's season premiere they attempted to reconcile the two; Frasier had an extended "imagination" sequence where he was in a room with all the women he'd loved, including Shelly Long as Diane and Rita Wilson as Frasier's mother. Diane mentioned Frasier's mother had tried to kill her.

I've missed whole seasons of Frasier; have they done any more of this retconning?
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#2
Old 09-27-2001, 10:50 AM
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I remember it mentioned in one episode that Frasier's mother was a scientist - she used to do sociology-type experiments on the boys.
#3
Old 09-27-2001, 11:06 AM
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In one Episode of Fraiser, it was mentioned that Fraiser "never said he had a brother, and he told me his father was dead." Obviously, he altered his past since he was living in Boston and figured nobody would know anyway.
#4
Old 09-27-2001, 12:37 PM
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The episode of Frasier where Sam Malone comes back, they deal with this issue directly. Sam says, "Frasier, you told me your father was dead."

Marty says, "You told them I was dead?"

Frasier says, "Well, we were having a fight at the time. What was I supposed to do?"

They were directly acknowledging the continuity error.
#5
Old 09-27-2001, 03:45 PM
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Frasier's mom named the two boys after her favorite lab rats she had.
#6
Old 09-27-2001, 04:35 PM
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Yes, Gravity and bean_shadow, the things you say are true, but they aren't part of the continuity that is in conflict between the two sitcoms.
#7
Old 09-27-2001, 04:51 PM
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I don't know if this counts...

Fraiser didn't use to be so prissy. Although he was suppose to be the smartest guy there he still drank beer and in one episode he demonstrated his excellent skiing abilities. Then when he got his own series that all changed.

Marc
#8
Old 09-27-2001, 06:50 PM
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Not a continuity glitch, but interestingly enough, John Mahoney played a character on Cheers. He was a piano playing jingle writer.

Someone posted recently that Woody was a City Counselman at the end of the series (as well as MArried) but when he appeared in Fraiser, none of that was remembered or mentioned.

Cheers seems in the rear view mirror. The series always flagged when anyone (other than Fredrick or Lilith) appeared. The Diane's play episode was good, but it kept playing on old jokes. I liked Cheers, but it hasn't held up well. I think Fraiser is a smarter show. Diane in the season opener was kind of funny due to what she represented.

If they are going to reference Cheers, I prefer the subtle line such as the episode where Fraiser and Daphane play dart in a pub. He says "Maybe there was a dart board in that bar in Boston." It kind of excites you a bit ("He's talkin' 'bout Cheers.") but doesn't bog down the series.
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#9
Old 06-20-2013, 12:08 AM
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His mother's personality in Cheers, and her described personality in Frasier are very different also.

In Frasier, she's described as an intelligent, sophisticated, and classy woman, yet not afraid to mix with the commoners. She was as likely to be found at the baseball game eating hot dogs and drinking beer with Marty, as she was to go to the opera.
#10
Old 06-20-2013, 12:31 AM
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You might want to keep in mind this is a 12 year old thread. Most of the folks who participated originally may not still be around here.
#11
Old 06-20-2013, 08:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MissingSandwich View Post
His mother's personality in Cheers, and her described personality in Frasier are very different also.

In Frasier, she's described as an intelligent, sophisticated, and classy woman, yet not afraid to mix with the commoners. She was as likely to be found at the baseball game eating hot dogs and drinking beer with Marty, as she was to go to the opera.
Well, on Frasier, it was family members looking back fondly on a loved one. On Cheers it was mostly Diane dealing with a woman that did NOT want her with her son. Of course she came off different, but I wouldn't say contradictorily so.
#12
Old 06-21-2013, 12:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Kolak of Twilo View Post
You might want to keep in mind this is a 12 year old thread. Most of the folks who participated originally may not still be around here.
We's all zombies, we is.
#13
Old 06-21-2013, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Mahaloth View Post
The episode of Frasier where Sam Malone comes back, they deal with this issue directly. Sam says, "Frasier, you told me your father was dead."

Marty says, "You told them I was dead?"

Frasier says, "Well, we were having a fight at the time. What was I supposed to do?"

They were directly acknowledging the continuity error.
I came in here to post something that I had already posted nearly 12 years ago. Whoa, that freaked me out.
#14
Old 06-21-2013, 03:05 PM
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You were almost your own rerun!
#15
Old 06-21-2013, 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Mahaloth View Post
I came in here to post something that I had already posted nearly 12 years ago. Whoa, that freaked me out.

zombie or no

if it was the same thought then that shows mental stability.

Last edited by johnpost; 06-21-2013 at 05:33 PM.
#16
Old 01-28-2016, 07:42 AM
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Originally Posted by middleman View Post
Someone posted recently that Woody was a City Counselman at the end of the series (as well as MArried) but when he appeared in Fraiser, none of that was remembered or mentioned.
Sure it was. Frasier directly asks Woody about his family when they first reunite in Seattle:
Quote:
Frasier: So, is Kelly with you?

Woody: No, no, she's visiting her mom with the kids, but she sends her love.
Woody's wife and daughter are involved in a crucial plot point later in the same episode.

Regarding his job, he says only that he's still tending bar at Cheers, though that isn't incompatible with his having been elected to the Boston City Council six years earlier. (Councillors serve two-year terms.)
#17
Old 01-28-2016, 07:57 AM
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#18
Old 01-28-2016, 08:02 AM
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I thought at the beginning of the pilot of Frasier, it's established that his mother has recently died. Wasn't that part of the impetus or him eventually deciding to live with his father while he was recuperating? There's a long time between the episode of Cheers where Nancy Marchand appears, and the pilot of Frasier.

Also, Frasier still skied on his own show. As far as drinking beer, you can retcon that as Frasier's attempt to be more like Sam's crowd in order to appeal to Diane. That was the only reason he hung out at Cheers in the first place.

I know, zombie and all.

I stopped watching Cheers when Shelley Long left, and then I didn't start watching Frasier until I read an article about the dog on the show, so for me there was a long gap between seeing episodes of one show and then the other, and I didn't notice many of the problems.
#19
Old 01-28-2016, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by RivkahChaya View Post
I thought at the beginning of the pilot of Frasier, it's established that his mother has recently died. Wasn't that part of the impetus or him eventually deciding to live with his father while he was recuperating?
Yes, that's correct. In the pilot, Frasier and Niles discuss the fact that Martin can't live on his own any more. They consider sending him to a care home but eventually Frasier consents to taking him in.
Quote:
Also, Frasier still skied on his own show.
Yep. The one where the gang visits a ski lodge is commonly ranked among the best episodes of the series.
#20
Old 01-28-2016, 10:31 AM
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I thought the reason Martin couldn't live on his own anymore was that he had taken a fall in the shower, not that he was newly a widower. Wiki seems to back me up:

Their father Martin, a gruff, blue-collar former police detective, was forced to retire after he was shot in the hip while on duty. The injury has made it very difficult for him to live alone, although he stubbornly tries to keep doing so. After Martin slips in the shower, Niles decides that Martin cannot live by himself.
#21
Old 01-28-2016, 11:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gravity View Post
I remember it mentioned in one episode that Frasier's mother was a scientist - she used to do sociology-type experiments on the boys.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Agrippina View Post
Frasier's mom named the two boys after her favorite lab rats she had.
This sounds like Leonard's mom on The Big Bang Theory. What if they were sisters? How about that continuity?
#22
Old 01-28-2016, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by silenus View Post
I thought the reason Martin couldn't live on his own anymore was that he had taken a fall in the shower, not that he was newly a widower.
The two are related, aren't they? Falling in the shower wouldn't be such a problem if his wife were still around.
#23
Old 01-28-2016, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by psychonaut View Post
The two are related, aren't they? Falling in the shower wouldn't be such a problem if his wife were still around.
Maybe, maybe not. I am a fan of the show, and I don't recall there ever being reference to exactly when she died. That doesn't mean it didn't happen, but I don't remember it.
#24
Old 01-28-2016, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by silenus View Post
Maybe, maybe not. I am a fan of the show, and I don't recall there ever being reference to exactly when she died. That doesn't mean it didn't happen, but I don't remember it.
Maybe it's a question of what counts as "newly" widowed. It must have happened some time after Frasier moved to Boston, because Niles once complained to Frasier about having had to look after Martin all by himself ever since their mother died. But circumstances suggest it wasn't too long before Frasier returned to Seattle—for example, after some brief hesitation about rushing into a relationship after his wife's death, Martin starts dating women in the first few episodes of the first season. If he'd been a widower of ten years already it's less likely he'd have been hemming and hawing about it being too soon.
#25
Old 01-28-2016, 08:39 PM
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An epilogue to a Cheers episode suggests Frasier and Lilith will reconcile in some sense and possibly there will be a break between Frasier and Niles, or that Niles will die before Frasier. She (and an adult Frederick) are the only ones present for the reading of Frasier's will "many years" in the future.

One fairly blatant inconsistency I recall, though, involves Frasier's mother. There was an episode of Frasier in which (as I possibly misremember) Frasier and Niles made some critical comments about a woman Martin was dating. Martin blasted them for it and they essentially called him a hypocrite, recalling times when Martin had made similar disparaging remarks about Lilith and Maris, among other women that Frasier or Niles had been involved with. I think it was stated or implied that Hester Crane had been classy enough to restrain herself, but the only actual appearance of the character (that wasn't a flashback, dream or home movie) was the Nancy Marchand guest appearance on Cheers, where Hester was quite thoroughly and instantly and indeed menacingly hostile to Diane Chambers.
#26
Old 01-28-2016, 08:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Bryan Ekers View Post
Hester was quite thoroughly and instantly and indeed menacingly hostile to Diane Chambers.
Maybe she was already terminally ill and/or starting to suffer from dementia. My dad's personality changed completely when he was dying from bone cancer.
#27
Old 01-28-2016, 09:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Exapno Mapcase View Post
This sounds like Leonard's mom on The Big Bang Theory. What if they were sisters? How about that continuity?
I don't know about that, but I think Frasier and Niles have a third brother they never talk about or acknowledge.
#28
Old 01-28-2016, 09:36 PM
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Originally Posted by terentii View Post
Maybe she was already terminally ill and/or starting to suffer from dementia. My dad's personality changed completely when he was dying from bone cancer.
Good point - from Frasier's reaction (as I recall), he didn't seem to think Diane's descriptions of Hester's threats were plausible, at least at first.
#29
Old 01-28-2016, 09:41 PM
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Originally Posted by RivkahChaya View Post

Also, Frasier still skied on his own show. As far as drinking beer, you can retcon that as Frasier's attempt to be more like Sam's crowd in order to appeal to Diane. That was the only reason he hung out at Cheers in the first place.
Frasier likes to think of himself as someone who prefers the finer things, but who can fit in with any crowd; this shows up when he's at Cheers, when he starts hanging out at the British-style pub he finds in Seattle, and other occasions. Niles, by contrast, doesn't feel the same need to diversify his interests.
#30
Old 01-28-2016, 11:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Exapno Mapcase View Post
This sounds like Leonard's mom on The Big Bang Theory. What if they were sisters? How about that continuity?
Leonard's mom is more like Lilith (more interested in lab experiments than empathy); maybe they are sisters instead.
#31
Old 01-29-2016, 03:15 AM
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Originally Posted by silenus View Post
Maybe, maybe not. I am a fan of the show, and I don't recall there ever being reference to exactly when she died. That doesn't mean it didn't happen, but I don't remember it.
According to IMDB, the episode of Cheers! with Hester aired on 22 November 1984. The first episode of Frasier aired on 16 September 1993. So she died sometime in that almost nine-year window.

Marty had apparently been living on his own for some time, so we can assume she died sometime around the first Gulf War. This would be about six years after threatening to kill Diane. Sounds right for someone afflicted with dementia?
#32
Old 01-29-2016, 03:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Mahaloth View Post
I came in here to post something that I had already posted nearly 12 years ago. Whoa, that freaked me out.
But nothing ever changes! Do you have any idea what it's like to play the same character poster for twenty years?
#33
Old 01-29-2016, 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Robot Arm View Post
But nothing ever changes! Do you have any idea what it's like to play the same character poster for twenty years?
LOL, I just watched that episode last night.
#34
Old 01-29-2016, 11:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Peter Morris View Post
I don't know about that, but I think Frasier and Niles have a third brother they never talk about or acknowledge.
I don't get it.
#35
Old 01-30-2016, 01:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Elendil's Heir View Post
I don't get it.
From the Wiki article:

The Scarecrow (Dr. Jonathan Crane) is a fictional supervillain appearing in American comic books published by DC Comics, commonly as an adversary of the superhero Batman. The character first appeared in World's Finest Comics #3 (September 1941) and was created by Bob Kane and Bill Finger. A professor of psychology and psychiatry, Dr. Crane uses a variety of fear-enhancing drugs, toxins, and psychological warfare tactics to exploit the fears and phobias of his adversaries.
#36
Old 01-30-2016, 12:56 PM
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Ah, thanks. Got it.
#37
Old 01-31-2016, 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Peter Morris View Post
I don't know about that, but I think Frasier and Niles have a third brother they never talk about or acknowledge.
Three brothers? And Martin's a widowed father with three boys? So Frazier was going to be an updated My Three Sons until Jonathan “Chuck” Crane disappeared upstairs in Happier Days?

Last edited by dba Fred; 01-31-2016 at 08:12 AM.
#38
Old 02-06-2016, 05:29 AM
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Originally Posted by terentii View Post
According to IMDB, the episode of Cheers! with Hester aired on 22 November 1984. The first episode of Frasier aired on 16 September 1993. So she died sometime in that almost nine-year window.
I just watched "Room Full of Heroes", an episode from the ninth season which aired in October 2001. In it, Niles mentions that Hester has been gone for fourteen years, which would put her death around 1987. So Martin had presumably been living on his own for about six years.
#39
Old 02-06-2016, 06:15 AM
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Originally Posted by psychonaut View Post
I just watched "Room Full of Heroes", an episode from the ninth season which aired in October 2001. In it, Niles mentions that Hester has been gone for fourteen years, which would put her death around 1987. So Martin had presumably been living on his own for about six years.
... And there we go!
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