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View Full Version : Helmets in WW2


Reeder
02-04-2003, 09:16 PM
In WW2 and beyond I'm sure, the Marines have worn the camoflage covering while the Army didn't. I have watched combat films that showed Marines and Soldiers fighting side by side. The Marine in his helmet the Soldier in his..

My question..,

Was the camoflage for exactly that? Camoflage? Or was it just to differentiate the Marine from the Soldier? If it was for camoflage, why didn't the Army use it?

Boyo Jim
02-04-2003, 10:26 PM
I'm pretty sure camouflage was used for camouflage..

The Army and Marines had different uniforms. They had some gear that was the same, and lots that weren't. Simple as that.

IMHO.

d12
02-05-2003, 12:40 AM
WAG: The army would have the netting so they can easily change the patterns by sticking braches or leaves etc...

The marines, usual more static than the army could easily predict what kind of area they would land in.

rhinostylee
02-05-2003, 09:38 AM
German helmets in both WWI and WWII were evil looking! I enjoy them very much. American helmets in WWI were the worst!

It's too bad that Nazi's were the scem of the earth, because their emblems and uniforms were always pretty slick, but you can't decorate your house with it or people will think your a Nazi.

WotNot
02-05-2003, 11:34 AM
Originally posted by rhinostylee
It's too bad that Nazi's were the scem of the earth, because their emblems and uniforms were always pretty slick, but you can't decorate your house with it or people will think your a Nazi.

Gee, ya think? :D

I seem to remember reading that some US army units did try wearing camouflage shortly after D-Day after all, it's a good idea, and seemed to work for the Germans. Unfortunately, other Allied troops thought they were Germans, and shot at them.

So they stopped wearing it.

JRDelirious
02-05-2003, 12:56 PM
I suppose rhinostylee would like the helmet we've been using since the mid-1980s...

Anyway, as pointed out, in WW2 the various services' gear was quite distinct. And "cammies" weren't even standard within each service until the BDU was introduced in the early-mid 1980s and was made standard for all services.

The Marines were never too happy with it and in 2002 decided they had enough and adopted a Marine-unique digitally-designed trademarked (i.e. no using it for commercial hunting gear, or for sale to foreign armies) camo pattern and uniform cut for their combar wear.

SenorBeef
02-05-2003, 01:30 PM
The netting on the GI helmet, actually, I think, was designed to break up any glare, and the pattern in general, serving as it's own little camo.

Anyway, the Marines and Army simply used different uniforms, probably due to seperate internal studies figuring what was the best thing.

Also, to some extent, a plain green or olive drab helmet is it's own sort of camoflague. (I can't remember if the GI helmets were olive drab or not, but I remember reading a study done fairly recently that olive drab actually made an excellent all-round camoflague, where as other camoflague was designed for certain environments and actually stuck out more than olive drab in other enviroments).

Boobka
02-05-2003, 02:30 PM
I remember seeing a History Channle about cammo uniforms. The US Armed forces (mainly Marines) tried out cammo in the Pacific front and it was pretty successful until it got wet and exposed to the sun then they were wearing were white looking uniforms. They stopped shortly after that. The US Armed forces did not have cammo uniforms in Vietnam or Korea.

I wish I could find something that directly cited this. The show talked about experiments with cammo but it wasn't issued on a regural basis.

SenorBeef
02-05-2003, 02:36 PM
Er, the US forces definitely had camoflagued units in Vietnam.

Hup the Fool
02-06-2003, 01:00 AM
Originally posted by SenorBeef
Er, the US forces definitely had camoflagued units in Vietnam.

Almost all camo uniforms in Vietnam were worn by special forces and many of those were locally made rather than government issue. Regular Army or Marine were issued standard OD jungle fatigues. As JRDelirious pointed out, camo was not issues to regular troops until the 1980s.

SenorBeef
02-06-2003, 03:24 AM
Ah, ok. I remember reading specifically about special ops troops making their own tiger-stripe patterns, and I thought it was only significant to mention because it differed from the normal jungle pattern, not that it was camoflagued at all.

Learn something every day.

MSU 1978
02-06-2003, 09:08 AM
What I'd like to know is do helmets stop bullets? Or are there some bullets that will penetrate and some that won't?

Reeder
02-06-2003, 09:14 AM
Helmets aren't designed to stop a direct hit from a bullet. They would however deflect a glancing blow. They are mostly to stop shrapnel.

UncleBill
02-06-2003, 09:30 AM
Issue helmets and body armor (what was in use up to a few years ago, anyway) are generally meant to stop shrapnel, which kills many many more than bullets do. That's why they are called Flak Jackets, and not Bullet Proof Vests. Ballistic Armor works for bullets, and is being incorporated into new products. An issue helmet these days stops a bullet better than the steel pot did, and yes, some angles and calibers will penetrate, some won't, but I can't find a cite.

MSU 1978
02-06-2003, 10:02 AM
Any truth to the scene in Apocalypse Now where the soldiers sit on their helmets in the helicopter so they don't get their testicles blown off?

SenorBeef
02-06-2003, 10:18 AM
Originally posted by UncleBill
That's why they are called Flak Jackets, and not Bullet Proof Vests.

Nit: Well, technically, it's because they were designed to protect bomber crews from German anti-aircraft fire (FLAK = Flieger Abwehr Kannone), not a term referring to general shrapnel.

David Simmons
02-06-2003, 11:41 AM
Originally posted by MSU 1978
Any truth to the scene in Apocalypse Now where the soldiers sit on their helmets in the helicopter so they don't get their testicles blown off?

Maybe. I think maybe testicles were specifically mentioned in the film for the drama. However, when you are being shot at any bit of cover is welcomed. A piece of paper a blade of grass, anything.

My dad and I used to laugh about the wagon train settlers hiding behind the spokes of a wagon wheel during the indian attacks that were a standard item in a lot of oaters. I don't laugh any more.

Poe
02-06-2003, 12:02 PM
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by rhinostylee
It's too bad that Nazi's were the scem of the earth, because their emblems and uniforms were always pretty slick, but you can't decorate your house with it or people will think your a Nazi.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yeah, nazi's were evil. Was the German Wehrmacht evil and scummy? No. There's a clear pattern between the Allgemeine SS and the Wehrmacht. Is my house decorated with World War II Era items, especially from the German side? Yes. Do some people think I'm a Nazi? Yes. Are some people uneducated fools? Yes. Will I stop talking in questions? Never!

My great grandfather was a Field Marshal in World War I, I'm rather proud of my heritage. If people wish to think i'm racist because of my love of one of the most elite fighting forces ever and history so be it. Sorry about the rant, but I've taken alot of flak about an Iron Cross I've been wearing lately. Such as the "Oh my, you must be a Nazi! Please don't gas me!"

Though I do enjoy saying "It was enstated as the symbol for Germany in 1812, thanks for playing!" *punches dumb person in face*


So for all purposes, rhino is absolutly right.

my 2 cp

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