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Ludovic
11-08-2006, 10:53 PM
Since bonobo sex is not about reproduction, and many species when brought up by humans from the start view humans as part of the tribe, if a bonobo were raised by humans from the start would it willingly have sex with humans? (Of course this assumes it would see us as "part of the tribe".)

Rigamarole
11-08-2006, 11:42 PM
Don't get any ideas, partner. ;)

I do have to wonder what constitutes "willingly", since this is a large part of the rationale for the outlaw of bestiality - basically, that animals are unable to consent to sexual activity and that puts the practice somewhere along the field of rape in society's eyes.

By "willingly" do you mean would the bonobo be the one to initiate sexual contact? If so, it makes for a very interesting question. One I do not have an answer for, but wanted to clarify this point.

Ludovic
11-09-2006, 07:27 AM
Don't get any ideas, partner. ;)

I do have to wonder what constitutes "willingly", since this is a large part of the rationale for the outlaw of bestiality - basically, that animals are unable to consent to sexual activity and that puts the practice somewhere along the field of rape in society's eyes.

By "willingly" do you mean would the bonobo be the one to initiate sexual contact? If so, it makes for a very interesting question. One I do not have an answer for, but wanted to clarify this point.I was interested in both being the one to initiate and the one to receive initiation willingly.

Yes, this is GQ but in my opinion, the bonobo would be a borderline situation, since their natural activity includes sexual activity to the extent that it's not like it would be an "unnatural act" to have sex with them - it would seem very natural to me.

Not that bonobos are particularly attractive to me.

TheLoadedDog
11-09-2006, 07:40 AM
Not that bonobos are particularly attractive to me.
Especially not when you wake up next to one, hungover...

Carlyjay
11-09-2006, 09:56 AM
Especially not when you wake up next to one, hungover...

And it's wearing your t-shirt...

kimera
11-09-2006, 12:52 PM
I'm sure they would. I've read about a researcher who was used to working with chimps who was transfered to bonobos. A bonobo wanted a kiss and the researcher gave it to him, expecting just their lips to touch. He was very surprised when he found bonobo tongue in his mouth. I've read about chimps who were aroused by the naked human form so I wouldn't be surprised if the same was true for bonobos.

John Mace
11-09-2006, 01:01 PM
Since bonobo sex is not about reproduction...
Not true. Much of the sex-play is about social bonding and stress reduction, but bonobos do it to make little baby bonobos, too.

and many species when brought up by humans from the start view humans as part of the tribe, if a bonobo were raised by humans from the start would it willingly have sex with humans? (Of course this assumes it would see us as "part of the tribe".)
Probably. Both kinds, too-- the play sex and the "real" sex. A male might have problems seeing a human female as being in heat, though, as bonobos females (like chimps) have obvious genital swelling when they're receptive to the real type of sex.

si_blakely
11-09-2006, 05:52 PM
Probably. Both kinds, too-- the play sex and the "real" sex. A male might have problems seeing a human female as being in heat, though, as bonobos females (like chimps) have obvious genital swelling when they're receptive to the real type of sex.

Damn evolution - I do appreciate a bigger brain, but given that all the extra brain matter is devoted to figuring out whether a female is receptive or not...

and it gets it wrong nine times out of ten....

I'm not sure about the value of the trade-off.

<sigh> :(

Si

Crescend
11-09-2006, 06:02 PM
[QUOTE=si_blakely]I'm not sure about the value of the trade-off./QUOTE]On the bright side, evolution gave humans a tonker that puts all other primates to shame. The path may be difficult, but the rewards are many!

Chronos
11-09-2006, 06:17 PM
On the bright side, evolution gave humans a tonker that puts all other primates to shame. The path may be difficult, but the rewards are many!If "tonker" means what I think it does, that's a side effect of having big brains. Because the human brain is larger, the vagina needs to be larger to accomodate the larger head during birth. And with a larger vagina comes the need for a larger penis to match it.

John Mace
11-09-2006, 06:31 PM
If "tonker" means what I think it does, that's a side effect of having big brains...
I thought it was side effect of having big feet. ;)

si_blakely
11-09-2006, 06:40 PM
If "tonker" means what I think it does, that's a side effect of having big brains. Because the human brain is larger, the vagina needs to be larger to accomodate the larger head during birth. And with a larger vagina comes the need for a larger penis to match it.

But they keep telling me

size doesn't matter

Si

WhyNot
11-09-2006, 06:41 PM
If "tonker" means what I think it does, that's a side effect of having big brains. Because the human brain is larger, the vagina needs to be larger to accomodate the larger head during birth. And with a larger vagina comes the need for a larger penis to match it.
Not that I'm arguing, but why? Seems to me that there's no reason for the head to be squashed in the 6-7 inch long vagina during childbirth. The cervix has to open a lot wider than say, a dog's, to let that big head out, so we need a wide pelvic inlet, and of course the vagina has to be stretchy circumference-wise, but why does the vagina need to be long, as well?

Crescend
11-09-2006, 08:50 PM
If "tonker" means what I think it does, that's a side effect of having big brains. Because the human brain is larger, the vagina needs to be larger to accomodate the larger head during birth. And with a larger vagina comes the need for a larger penis to match it.

The theory (http://human-nature.com/ep/articles/ep021223.html) I heard in my Biology of Human Social and Sexual Interactions class was that the human penis may have evolved its distinctive shape and size due to the need to compete with other males for fertilization. The "head" would be used as a semen displacement device to "scoop out" rivals' sperm from the pre-cervical area during intercourse.

So, if this theory pans out, it would mean that we'd have to stop calling it a "rod" and start calling it a "squeegee".

Rigamarole
11-09-2006, 10:51 PM
The "head" would be used as a semen displacement device to "scoop out" rivals' sperm from the pre-cervical area during intercourse.

Nice theory, but knowing what we know about contraceptives, that hardly seems like it would be very effective.

Mama_Hound
11-09-2006, 11:24 PM
What is a bonobo?

Sunspace
11-09-2006, 11:37 PM
This is a bonobo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonobo). A kind of chimpanzee.

Mama_Hound
11-09-2006, 11:39 PM
Thanks, that page is slow to open but I know what a chimp is. We enjoy watching them at the zoo. I don't agree with them being used in the entertainment industry though.

Chronos
11-09-2006, 11:48 PM
What is a bonobo?A variety of chimpanzee, and therefore one of humanity's closest relatives. They're widely known for their extreme sexual promiscuity: A bonobo's answer to nearly any situation is to have sex with the nearest other bonobo or group of bonobos, regardless of gender.

Crescend
11-09-2006, 11:54 PM
Nice theory, but knowing what we know about contraceptives, that hardly seems like it would be very effective.

It doesn't have to be that effective, any statistical benefit over time that's above the noise floor would do.

Sublight
11-10-2006, 05:54 AM
Bonobo males, like human males, appear to be willing to stick their penises into any hole that presents itself. I doubt you'd have to go to much effort to get one to initiate anything.

Ludovic
11-10-2006, 08:41 AM
That reminds me that we should reclassify the Linnean name from Pan Paniscus, to Pan Promiscuous ;)

kimera
11-10-2006, 02:12 PM
Well, Pansexual (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=pansexual&x=0&y=0) means " expressing or involving sexuality in many different forms or with a variety of sexual outlets." Frans de Waal said it was the perfect way to describe Bonobo sexuality.

John Mace
11-10-2006, 02:24 PM
A variety of chimpanzee...
Not really. Chimps and bonobos are a variety of the genus Pan, and neither can be claimed to be a variety of the other. Bonobos are a variety of ape, like we are. You wouldn't, for instance, say that Neanderthals were a variety of Sapiens-- unless you're a lumper. :)

Dijon Warlock
11-10-2006, 02:52 PM
I do have to wonder what constitutes "willingly", since this is a large part of the rationale for the outlaw of bestiality - basically, that animals are unable to consent to sexual activity and that puts the practice somewhere along the field of rape in society's eyes. That rationale, however prevalent, is complete bovine excrement. If "animals are unable to consent to sexual activity," then how does society propose to explain their survival over these many, many years? Are the original ones immortal? Did they reproduce in vitro at the behest of the magnanimous aliens from Galacticus Prime? Or does society perhaps advocate the belief that animals' reproduction should be prohibited because they don't pay taxes, or can't vote, or something?

By "willingly" do you mean would the bonobo be the one to initiate sexual contact? If so, it makes for a very interesting question. One I do not have an answer for, but wanted to clarify this point.Interesting question, perhaps; but probably because no one is allowed to find the answer due to "moral" implications.

I don't know whether bonobos would engage in physical intimacy with humans if given the opportunity. What I'm fairly convinced of, however, is that we will never find out because we're too stupid to do so. We'll wonder, but be content to wonder forever, lest someone get the wrong idea about our motives.

That's not fighting ignorance, that's entrenching it.

carnivorousplant
11-10-2006, 03:27 PM
Of course, they can be mean little bastards. (http://msnbc.msn.com/id/7087194/)

“We know that one of the most reliable predictors of increased male aggression is the presence of sexually receptive females,” said Jeffrey French, a psychobiologist who studies primate behavior at the University of Nebraska, Omaha.

Victim recovering
The chimps chewed off most of Davis’ face, tore off his foot and attacked his limbs and genitals.

John Mace
11-10-2006, 03:28 PM
Of course, they can be mean little bastards. (http://msnbc.msn.com/id/7087194/)
Those were chimps, not bonobos btw.

carnivorousplant
11-10-2006, 03:34 PM
Those were chimps, not bonobos btw.

Yes, but I wouldn't advise dating either of them.
Especially if she had a jealous boyfriend.
:)

John Mace
11-10-2006, 04:02 PM
A variety of chimpanzee...

Not really. Chimps and bonobos are a variety of the genus Pan, and neither can be claimed to be a variety of the other. Bonobos are a variety of ape, like we are. You wouldn't, for instance, say that Neanderthals were a variety of Sapiens-- unless you're a lumper.
I went back to the wikipedia article which says there is an increasing trend to use the word "chimp" to mean Pan, so maybe I need to take that back. I still think it adds some confusion, though, and invites the use of the inaccurate term "pygmy chimp" instead of "bonobo", since you have to use the term "common chimp" for what I would just call a "chimp". I don't think de Waal ever calls bonobos chimps, but then he's probably bonobo-centric. :)

Chronos
11-10-2006, 04:03 PM
Not really. Chimps and bonobos are a variety of the genus Pan, and neither can be claimed to be a variety of the other. Bonobos are a variety of ape, like we are. You wouldn't, for instance, say that Neanderthals were a variety of Sapiens-- unless you're a lumper.So it's a good thing I didn't say they were a variety of P. trogolodytes. I was using "chimpanzee" as a common term for the members of the genus Pan. Likewise, while I would not (necessarily) say that Neanderthals were a variety of H. sapiens, I would say that they're a variety of human.

kimera
11-10-2006, 04:36 PM
John Mace, I think your earlier statement was accurate in respect to the people who are heavily involved in Bonobo research. de Waal seems to use the terms very carefully and always seperate. I've been in communication with him so I will ask him what he thinks on that issue.

John Mace
11-10-2006, 04:49 PM
John Mace, I think your earlier statement was accurate in respect to the people who are heavily involved in Bonobo research. de Waal seems to use the terms very carefully and always seperate. I've been in communication with him so I will ask him what he thinks on that issue.
Yeah, wikipedia isn't the end of the story, but it's usually pretty good about such things. And actually, it's a bit contradictory:

Both species are chimpanzees, though that term is now frequently used to refer only to the larger of the two species, Pan troglodytes. To avoid confusion, this article follows the growing trend to use "chimpanzee" to refer to both members of the genus.
Seems to me that using the term that was adds to the confusion rather than helps avoid confusion. Give de Wall my regards and tell him I love his books. Tell him to write some more!! :)

ShibbOleth
11-10-2006, 05:03 PM
Since bonobo sex is not about reproduction, and many species when brought up by humans from the start view humans as part of the tribe, if a bonobo were raised by humans from the start would it willingly have sex with humans? (Of course this assumes it would see us as "part of the tribe".)

If you're lonely it might be a lot easier just to check the back pages of Creative Loafing or whatever throw-away weekly, Chicago Reader-esque rag you have in your area.

pool
11-11-2006, 10:32 AM
Whoah Whoah the more important question is what sexual position do Bonobos prefer? Missionary, Doggystyle, Bonobostyle?

mr. jp
11-11-2006, 12:44 PM
If "tonker" means what I think it does, that's a side effect of having big brains. Because the human brain is larger, the vagina needs to be larger to accomodate the larger head during birth. And with a larger vagina comes the need for a larger penis to match it.

That may be part of the reason, but it's not the whole story though is it?

JillGat
11-11-2006, 10:20 PM
Ludovic: I was interested in both being the one to initiate and the one to receive initiation willingly.

Ludo, you kink, you, are you saying you'd like to be in a bonobo daisy chain?

Ludovic
11-12-2006, 10:02 AM
Ludovic:

Ludo, you kink, you, are you saying you'd like to be in a bonobo daisy chain?Well, yes, if "Bonobo Daisy Chain" is the name of a band :)

Muffin
11-12-2006, 10:19 AM
I thought that fellow who runs the USA was a hybrid.

bienville
11-12-2006, 12:41 PM
Could an average sized bonobo vagina receive an average sized human penis?

I'm assuming there'd be no problem getting a bonobo penis into a human vagina, and I'm sure it's on YouTube somewhere.

Jonathan Chance
11-12-2006, 01:14 PM
A variety of chimpanzee, and therefore one of humanity's closest relatives. They're widely known for their extreme sexual promiscuity: A bonobo's answer to nearly any situation is to have sex with the nearest other bonobo or group of bonobos, regardless of gender.

And really, which species is happier?

Der Trihs
11-12-2006, 03:03 PM
The theory (http://human-nature.com/ep/articles/ep021223.html) I heard in my Biology of Human Social and Sexual Interactions class was that the human penis may have evolved its distinctive shape and size due to the need to compete with other males for fertilization. The "head" would be used as a semen displacement device to "scoop out" rivals' sperm from the pre-cervical area during intercourse.

So, if this theory pans out, it would mean that we'd have to stop calling it a "rod" and start calling it a "squeegee".There's also the theory that it evolved greater size to impress others, women or men or both. Which means it could be a leftover from a cultural predilection in some ancient tribe that left more descendants for some other reason.

drachillix
11-12-2006, 03:10 PM
But they keep telling me

size doesn't matter

Si

We have had threads galore on this

It matters :cool:

Dead armadillo
05-29-2013, 07:38 AM
Well...found this old thread and had to comment!
In the early 80's I was friends with a pet shop owner who specialized in tropical exotics. He traveled alot to find suppliers and came back from one trip with a teenage female chimpanzee.
She was offered for sale and even though she was very humanized and friendly, she never sold so he kept her as a personal pet and mascot for his shop.
So..now u got the "how", now the "what happened"
Mid-morning after the big party, staggering to the can hung over, I passed my friends open bedroom door and saw Becky (the chimp) trying to get a rise outta "Bill", the shop owner. Still dead drunk and passed out, she had no luck.
Not believing my still dull drunk eyes, i went on to the bathroom.
Back on the couch trying to sleep, I felt a rough hand caressing my thigh. Through bleary eyes I saw Becky standing next to the couch. I thought if I ignored her she would go away. I was wrong.
She noticed I was awake and swiftly mounted me, I tried to push her off but she wrapped her arms around my chest and held on. It's VERY true about chimps being stronger than people, it was like furry steel cables squeezing the breath outta me! She paid no attention to me beating on her back and used those hand like feet to fondle my member hard and insert it in her and she began to hump. Freaking out now, I kicked till we rolled off the couch, landing on her. I didn't think she could do anything with my weight on her but I was wrong again! Grasping my hips with weird feet, she easily lifted me till she could resume humping from below. At this point I just gave up. She got what she wanted and I was helpless to stop it. It makes me wonder how the hell did those people "humanize" the chimp? And did my ex-friend willingly indulge? I really sympathize with rape victims now.

gracer
05-29-2013, 08:51 AM
:eek: I take back every complaint about zombie reanimations, ever. This makes it all of them worth it.

Also, if this is true, then Dead Armadillo, you are a rape victim. :( I'm sorry about what happened.

Leo Bloom
05-29-2013, 09:28 AM
I thought that fellow who runs the USA was a hybrid.
Mods, spring into retroactivity!

Can you warn a zombie?

Colibri
05-29-2013, 10:30 AM
Mods, spring into retroactivity!

Can you warn a zombie?

[Moderating]

I'm not going to moderate a post made seven year ago and during a previous administration, but I will point out that post would not be acceptable under present policy.

Colibri
General Questions Moderator

PS. Leo Bloom, you've asked about this sort of thing previously. There's no need to keep asking such questions. You should ignore posts made that long ago.

Leo Bloom
05-29-2013, 10:54 AM
[Moderating]...

PS. Leo Bloom, you've asked about this sort of thing previously. There's no need to keep asking such questions. You should ignore posts made that long ago.
Sorry, Colibri. I was making a joke. I thought of the word "retroactivity" and amused my easily amused self. And I forgot you knew the tenor of the joke. :)

John Mace
05-29-2013, 10:59 AM
So, chimps will mate with dead members of the order Cingulata, but still no examples of mating with humans!

kk fusion
05-29-2013, 03:18 PM
if this is true
I've read that before on 4chan, with minor details changed. Reasonably sure it's fantasy.

johnpost
05-29-2013, 03:38 PM
zombie or no

i never thought i would see it but i'll be a monkey's uncle.

Malacandra
05-29-2013, 03:57 PM
This post has been aped by the apist!

Colibri
05-29-2013, 04:20 PM
This post has been aped by the apist!

Huh. I can't see any difference from a regular post.;)

donkeyoatey
05-29-2013, 05:41 PM
This post has been posted by the poster!

Malthus
05-29-2013, 05:48 PM
If they won't, the plan to market "monkubines" at the zoo will fall through. :(

cochrane
05-29-2013, 07:05 PM
Dear Penthouse:

Well...found this old thread and had to comment!
In the early 80's I was friends with a pet shop owner who specialized in tropical exotics. He traveled alot to find suppliers and came back from one trip with a teenage female chimpanzee.
She was offered for sale and even though she was very humanized and friendly, she never sold so he kept her as a personal pet and mascot for his shop.
So..now u got the "how", now the "what happened"
Mid-morning after the big party, staggering to the can hung over, I passed my friends open bedroom door and saw Becky (the chimp) trying to get a rise outta "Bill", the shop owner. Still dead drunk and passed out, she had no luck.
Not believing my still dull drunk eyes, i went on to the bathroom.
Back on the couch trying to sleep, I felt a rough hand caressing my thigh. Through bleary eyes I saw Becky standing next to the couch. I thought if I ignored her she would go away. I was wrong.
She noticed I was awake and swiftly mounted me, I tried to push her off but she wrapped her arms around my chest and held on. It's VERY true about chimps being stronger than people, it was like furry steel cables squeezing the breath outta me! She paid no attention to me beating on her back and used those hand like feet to fondle my member hard and insert it in her and she began to hump. Freaking out now, I kicked till we rolled off the couch, landing on her. I didn't think she could do anything with my weight on her but I was wrong again! Grasping my hips with weird feet, she easily lifted me till she could resume humping from below. At this point I just gave up. She got what she wanted and I was helpless to stop it. It makes me wonder how the hell did those people "humanize" the chimp? And did my ex-friend willingly indulge? I really sympathize with rape victims now.

:D

chorpler
05-31-2013, 08:05 PM
Dead armadillo, do you know if Becky was a bonobo or a regular chimpanzee?

Measure for Measure
05-31-2013, 08:41 PM
She noticed I was awake and swiftly mounted me, I tried to push her off but she wrapped her arms around my chest and held on. It's VERY true about chimps being stronger than people, it was like furry steel cables squeezing the breath outta me! While chimpanzees are indeed quite strong, they are muscular as well, so perhaps "Furry steel cables" is the wrong metaphor. That might be better applied to the tails of certain species of monkey- which are not as strong.

There are pictures of hairless chimpanzees living at zoos which show their musculature. https://secure.flickr.com/photos/richu/3196188065/ Those who have gotten very close to chimps might notice this as well.

Luke Brandis
06-01-2013, 08:59 PM
I donīt know about bonobos, but chimpanzees and orangutans do show sexual interest in humans of the opposite sex when reared in captivity, particularly if they didnīt have much contact with others of their own species...

I remember reading about a female Indonesian cook who worked for or with Birute Galdikas, who is the leading orangutan expert in the world (sort of what Jane Goodall is to chimpanzees); I donīt remember if the orang was wild or had been raised by humans, but apparently it raped the cook in front of Galdikas' eyes and even though she tried to stop it, the cook eventually told her that it was ok (!!) and allowed the orang to go through with it. Which I guess was her only choice since those guys are monstrously strong.
After it all happened, the cook's husband told Galdikas that he wasnīt angry about it because since the orang wasnīt human, it didnīt count as cheating...

Apparently in Borneo and Sumatra where orangs live it is popular knowledge that male orangs, even wild ones, will attempt to rape females. Then there's another case of a female orang who invited a male keeper (donīt remember his name but I think he's kinda famous in primatology circles) to have sex with her by conducing him to a large nest she had prepared seemingly for that only purpose, and doing whatever female orangs do to invite males to mate (as a side note, most orangutan sex is rape, actually). The keeper said no using sign language which the orang was being taught, and apparently the ape was so offended at being rejected that she refused to continue her training or have anything to do with the guy for a long time.

As for chimpanzees, there's Oliver, the one they formerly thought to be a chimp-human hybrid- he ended up being just a normal chimp with some genetic disorder I think, but he too was sexually interested on his female keepers.

So all in all I guess its not remote that a bonobo, if given the chance, would try to have sex with a human- maybe of either sex considering their usual behavior...

bienville
06-02-2013, 07:14 AM
Scrolling down the Wiki page for bonobos, I happened upon Ms. Vanessa Woods (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonobo#Conservation_status). I was not previously familiar with her.

I'm not too interested in the likelihood that bonobos would mate with me. However, I would be all too pleased if Vanessa Woods would agree to mate with me.

Here's her own Wiki page. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanessa_Woods) <swoon>

Luke Brandis
06-02-2013, 06:48 PM
I have always wondered why many of the leading primatologists in the world are women...

carnivorousplant
06-02-2013, 06:53 PM
I have always wondered why many of the leading primatologists in the world are women...

Women tend to be nurturing and caring while we guys usually want to kill something. :)

Luke Brandis
06-02-2013, 06:57 PM
Women tend to be nurturing and caring while we guys usually want to kill something. :)

Yep, that's the answer I usually get :D

Colibri
06-03-2013, 10:55 AM
I have always wondered why many of the leading primatologists in the world are women...

Women tend to be nurturing and caring while we guys usually want to kill something. :)

Yep, that's the answer I usually get :D

There's actually some truth to this. I once went to a lecture by paleontologist Louis Leakey in the early 1970s. He said he had encouraged the studies of Jane Goodall and Diane Fossey in part because as women they would be less likely to behave aggressively or challenge male chimpanzees or gorillas and so would be better able to habituate groups. He felt that men would have been too likely to behave aggressively in a confrontation with a dominant male and get into trouble.

carnivorousplant
06-03-2013, 10:58 AM
There's actually some truth to this.

I have Fought Ignorance!
Do I get a Citation from Cecil? A cookie?

:)

Luke Brandis
06-03-2013, 07:07 PM
There's actually some truth to this. I once went to a lecture by paleontologist Louis Leakey in the early 1970s. He said he had encouraged the studies of Jane Goodall and Diane Fossey in part because as women they would be less likely to behave aggressively or challenge male chimpanzees or gorillas and so would be better able to habituate groups. He felt that men would have been too likely to behave aggressively in a confrontation with a dominant male and get into trouble.

That makes a lot of sense. :>

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