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solkoe
11-13-2006, 09:38 PM
I checked this on WORD DETECTIVE and got no answer. What is the entomology of the word demonstrate? Is it evil? Should it be avoided?

tomndebb
11-13-2006, 09:52 PM
I checked this on WORD DETECTIVE and got no answer. What is the entomology of the word demonstrate? Is it evil? Should it be avoided?I think you have a bug in your question.

For "just words" you are often better off checking a dictionary than the Word Detective or similar sites that specialize in odd phrases.

From the Merriam-Webster site (http://m-w.com/dictionary/demonstrate): Etymology: Latin demonstratus, past participle of demonstrare, from de- + monstrare to showde- is a Latin prefix indicating a source or "from", so demonstrare was to show something from its source or to show how something came to be.

Demon comes from the Greek daimon and remains in English as dæmon (or daemon) in some constructions.

Squink
11-13-2006, 09:58 PM
from here: (http://machaut.uchicago.edu/?action=search&resource=Webster's&word=demonstrate&quicksearch=on&sourceid=Mozilla-search) Dem"on*strate (?; 277), v. t. [L. demonstratus, p. p. of demonstrare to demonstrate; de- + monstrare to show. See Monster.]
--->Mon"ster (?), n. [OE. monstre, F. monstre, fr. L. monstrum, orig., a divine omen, indicating misfortune; akin of monstrare to show, point out, indicate, and monere to warn. See Monition, and cf. Demonstrate, Muster.]
So the word is about the removal of monsters rather than anything to do with (L) daemons.

Gary T
11-13-2006, 10:17 PM
Why the demon in demonstrate?

Coincidence, like the "bat" in "bath" or the "harm" in "harmony."

tomndebb
11-13-2006, 10:35 PM
from here: (http://machaut.uchicago.edu/?action=search&resource=Webster's&word=demonstrate&quicksearch=on&sourceid=Mozilla-search)
So the word is about the removal of monsters rather than anything to do with (L) daemons.At the risk of having been whooshed,
no, the word is about showing something, particularly how it works or where it came from. According to the etymology you provided, demonstratus was already cognate with demonstrate even before the word came out of Latin.

The "monster" connection is to the root form, "to show," and led to the English word monster, meaning a creature that was displayed as an oddity. The similar meaning of "to show (bad things in the divinations)" added a layer of expected evil to the word "monster," but demonstrate had already gotten its own definition (in Latin) before all those side shows (SORRY) with the root definition developed.

Another form of monstrare led to the name of the object in which Catholics place the consecrated Host to be displayed at various rites, the monstrance.

Rico
11-13-2006, 10:56 PM
Why the demon in demonstrate?

Coincidence, like the "bat" in "bath" or the "harm" in "harmony."

Or the "fun" in "dysfunctional."

Savannah
11-14-2006, 12:09 AM
Or the "fun" in "dysfunctional."

Or funeral.

Kimstu
11-14-2006, 12:13 AM
I think you have a bug in your question.

Okay, that gets a :).

MrDibble
11-14-2006, 04:44 AM
Interesting fact - in Afrikaans, the word for "sample" (like, blood sample, or water sample) is "monster" (pronounced somewhat like "mawn-ster" rather than "mon-ster") - I wonder if it's etymologically related?

danceswithcats
11-14-2006, 12:27 PM
Demon may be in demonstrate, but as you know, the devil's in the details. ;)

Lemur866
11-14-2006, 01:35 PM
Tom, I think you're wrong about how "monster" came into english. Monsters weren't named because they were displayed as oddities, rather monsters were divine omens. So when God was pissed you'd have comets, rains of blood, birth of two-headed calves, dogs and cats living together. Deformed animals were signs. Eventually the word came to mean only deformed animals, then to the current meaning.

jjimm
11-14-2006, 01:41 PM
Or funeral.Let us not dwell on the town of Scunthorpe.

Dr. Drake
11-14-2006, 02:24 PM
Let us not dwell on the town of Scunthorpe.What is your objection to Thor?

Mister Rik
11-14-2006, 02:35 PM
I read once that "demon" originally meant "teacher", which would jibe with "to show", mentioned above.

Valteron
11-14-2006, 02:52 PM
I remember a strident, screeching, ball-busting feminist (I am not saying all feminsits are that, just that I met one who was) who insisted that men are naturally programmed to tyannize and dominate, which is why we have words like "manipulate".

She seemed completely unconvinced when I pointed out that the "man" in that word was from the Latin "manus" and had NO conection with the word for male humans, which would have been "homo" in Latin. Then again, I guess listning to anything a man had to say was asking a lot of her.

So always beware of "words" that occur concidentally in another word. Or as an old joke puts it: "Dolly Parton put the 'cunt' in 'Country and Westrn'. " :D

AskNott
11-14-2006, 03:07 PM
You have to see what was left on de plate, if you want to know how much de monster ate. ;)

USCDiver
11-14-2006, 03:51 PM
Or the "fun" in "dysfunctional."

Or the 'fun' in Fundamentalist Dogma

Northern Piper
11-14-2006, 03:55 PM
Is it evil? Should it be avoided? If you're worried about that one, I hope you're also avoiding using the word "hello."

jjimm
11-14-2006, 05:47 PM
What is your objection to Thor?I do apologise: I did not mean to insult your deity, merely to point out that "pe" could sound rude one's sensitive maiden aunts.

Mister Rik
11-15-2006, 01:24 AM
Or the 'fun' in Fundamentalist Dogma
I've heard (from my close personal friend, Al Yankovic) that Jerry Springer puts the "sin" in "syndication".

:D

Monstre
11-22-2006, 01:29 AM
Dem"on*strate (?; 277), v. t. [L. demonstratus, p. p. of demonstrare to demonstrate; de- + monstrare to show. See Monster.]
--->Mon"ster (?), n. [OE. monstre, F. monstre, fr. L. monstrum, orig., a divine omen, indicating misfortune; akin of monstrare to show, point out, indicate, and monere to warn. See Monition, and cf. Demonstrate, Muster.]
So the word is about the removal of monsters rather than anything to do with (L) daemons.
Well, I see I'm late to the thread, but no matter. I just learned that I'm a divine omen. Cool! :cool:

Quasimodem
11-22-2006, 02:00 AM
Demon comes from the Greek daimon and remains in English as dæmon (or daemon) in some constructions.

So the word daemon as it is used on the internet ("chat daemon", for instance) means "instructor/moderator"?

Thanks

Q

Exapno Mapcase
11-22-2006, 02:19 AM
I read once that "demon" originally meant "teacher", which would jibe with "to show", mentioned above.
Probably not. The online Etymology Dictionary has this:
1387, from L. dæmon "spirit," from Gk. daimon (gen. daimonos) "lesser god, guiding spirit, tutelary deity," (sometimes including souls of the dead), used (with daimonion) in Christian Gk. translations and Vulgate for "god of the heathen" and "unclean spirit." Jewish authors earlier had employed the Gk. word in this sense, using it to render shedim "lords, idols" in the Septuagint, and Matt. viii.31 has daimones, translated as deofol in O.E., feend or deuil in M.E.
Somebody may have thought that a "Guiding spirit" was a teacher, I suppose, but this is not a good historical usage.

That means this is wrong as well.
So the word daemon as it is used on the internet ("chat daemon", for instance) means "instructor/moderator"?
It comes from Maxwell's demon.

The Origin of the word Daemon (http://ei.cs.vt.edu/~history/Daemon.html)
From Fernando J. Corbato: Your explanation of the origin of the word daemon is correct in that my group began using the term around that time frame. However the acronym explanation is a new one on me. Our use of the word daemon was inspired by the Maxwell's daemon of physics and thermodynamics. (My background is Physics.) Maxwell's daemon was an imaginary agent which helped sort molecules of different speeds and worked tirelessly in the background. We fancifully began to use the word daemon to describe background processes which worked tirelessly to perform system chores.

Mister Rik
11-22-2006, 03:46 AM
Probably not. The online Etymology Dictionary has this:

Somebody may have thought that a "Guiding spirit" was a teacher, I suppose, but this is not a good historical usage.
What about that "tutelary deity" part?

I first heard the "demon = teacher" thing after seeing a card from early version of the card game, Magic: The Gathering, called "Demonic Tutor". There was a magazine article, IIRC, explaining the card's name.

chrisk
11-22-2006, 04:00 AM
It comes from Maxwell's demon.

The Origin of the word Daemon (http://ei.cs.vt.edu/~history/Daemon.html)

Hmm... I always thought they were inspired more directly from fantasy demons, D&D and so on. With the programer as grand sorceror, calling up demons to perform routine tasks for him or herself.

Oh well.
:D

Raguleader
11-22-2006, 08:44 AM
I've heard (from my close personal friend, Al Yankovic) that Jerry Springer puts the "sin" in "syndication".

:D

And let's not forget that you can't have slaughter without laughter. :D

susan
11-22-2006, 08:52 AM
Or the 'fun' in Fundamentalist DogmaDon't forget the dog.

Exapno Mapcase
11-22-2006, 12:38 PM
What about that "tutelary deity" part?

If you look up the word tutelary, you'll see that it doesn't mean tutor, but is just another way of saying guardian.

1. Being or serving as a guardian or protector: tutelary gods.
2. Of or relating to a guardian or guardianship.

If you don't know the meaning of words, then I guess you can assign any definition to them you want and that's how these ULs get started. But I'll trust a real dictionary over Magic: the Gathering.

Colophon
11-22-2006, 12:41 PM
Don't forget the dog.
Or the mentalist.

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