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cactus waltz
03-28-2008, 05:32 AM
There are many classic nemesis characters in modern fiction. But I was wondering about classic arch rivals - the kind of character who matches the genius of the antagonist and tries to outdo him at every given opportunity. The antagonist and the arch rival are typically bitter enemies, but secretely respect one another as professionals and sources of inspiration.

Tapioca Dextrin
03-28-2008, 05:41 AM
Holmes vs. Moriarty springs to mind.

MacSpon
03-28-2008, 06:19 AM
Hm. Seaton and DuQuesne might fit. But they're not exactly modern.

Spoke
03-28-2008, 06:33 AM
Reggie Mantle (http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/4804/001bigoh4.jpg), surely.

cactus waltz
03-28-2008, 06:35 AM
Holmes vs. Moriarty springs to mind.

Wouldn't Moriarty rather be a nemesis? I don't recall Moriarty's background, but I think of him to be a murderer of some sort.

Tapioca Dextrin
03-28-2008, 08:09 AM
I don't recall Moriarty's background

He wrote both A Treatise on the Binomial Theorem (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Treatise_on_the_Binomial_Theorem) at the age of 21 and later The Dynamics of an Asteroid (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dynamics_of_An_Asteroid), so he was a pretty smart cookie.

Moriarty
03-28-2008, 08:11 AM
Tom and Jerry.

Wile E. Coyote and the Road Runner.

And lest you disagree, I think there was lots of respect amongst these antagonists.

Why yes, my tastes are quite highbrow...why do you ask?

Thudlow Boink
03-28-2008, 10:01 AM
There are many classic nemesis characters in modern fiction. But I was wondering about classic arch rivals - the kind of character who matches the genius of the antagonist and tries to outdo him at every given opportunity. The antagonist and the arch rival are typically bitter enemies, but secretely respect one another as professionals and sources of inspiration.I think I know what you're getting at: the rivals are both going after the same goal, but each is trying to get there first. It's more like Holmes vs. Lestrade (though that's not a perfect example) than like Holmes vs. Moriarty. Unfortunately, I'm not coming up with any really good examples right now.

Ronald C. Semone
03-28-2008, 10:11 AM
Wouldn't Moriarty rather be a nemesis? I don't recall Moriarty's background, but I think of him to be a murderer of some sort.

Holmes was Moriarty's nemesis, not the other way around.

nivlac
03-28-2008, 02:52 PM
First to mind, Superman vs. Lex Luthor, then Batman vs. Joker. I guess every superhero has a main villain.

flurb
03-28-2008, 03:06 PM
The OP seems to be more about two antagonists trying to out do each other, not do each other in. Not classical, but Professor Farnsworth and Professor Wernstrom on Futurama fit the bill.

Autolycus
03-28-2008, 03:06 PM
Donkey Kong/Bowser and Mario. L and Kira from Death Note, although perhaps in this latter case they are more like nemeses.

Piccolo and Goku from Dragon Ball Z.
Dexter and ..what's-his-name, from Dexter's Lab

Gah! There are tons but I'm having trouble thinking of any. Villians or nemeses are much easier to find.

Lightray
03-28-2008, 03:10 PM
Edison v. Tesla?

Dexter and ..what's-his-name, from Dexter's Lab
Mandark.

Alessan
03-28-2008, 03:35 PM
First to mind, Superman vs. Lex Luthor, then Batman vs. Joker. I guess every superhero has a main villain.

I think the OP means something more like Dr. X versus Magneto.

Maus Magill
03-28-2008, 03:38 PM
The Brain and Snowball

silenus
03-28-2008, 03:42 PM
The Great Leslie and Professor Fate.

Sefton
03-28-2008, 03:42 PM
Darkwing Duck vs. NegaDuck.

Man, that was a serious feud.

ArizonaTeach
03-28-2008, 03:46 PM
Indiana Jones and Belloq.

Ronald C. Semone
03-28-2008, 03:53 PM
Sherlock Holmes and his brother, Mycroft

Cain and his brother, Abel

Romulus and his brothr, Remus

The two gunfighting brothers in the movie Cat Ballou

Annie Oakley and her later-to-be husband, Frank Butler ("Anything you can do, I can do better...")

bafaa
03-28-2008, 04:01 PM
Reed Richards and Dr Doom

griffin1977
03-28-2008, 04:42 PM
In the spy-genre there is ablsolutely nothing to compare to George Smiley and 'Karla' (the russian spy-master) from the Le Carre novels.

Little Nemo
03-28-2008, 05:10 PM
I think I know what you're getting at: the rivals are both going after the same goal, but each is trying to get there first. It's more like Holmes vs. Lestrade (though that's not a perfect example) than like Holmes vs. Moriarty. Unfortunately, I'm not coming up with any really good examples right now.Peary and Cook? Amundsen and Scott? Newton and Leibniz? Cope and Marsh?

mbh
03-28-2008, 05:11 PM
M and General Gogol, in the James Bond movies.

(After Bond destroys the gadget they both have been hunting for)
"That's detente, comrade. You don't have it, I don't have it."
(And Gogol just smiles, shrugs, and leaves.)

Sampiro
03-28-2008, 05:16 PM
The two gunfighting brothers in the movie Cat Ballou

Spoilerized for anyone who hasn't seen the movie:
Kid Shelleen and Tim Strawn (both played by Lee Marvin)

Two from related sitcoms:

Cheers and Gary's Olde Towne Tavern were archrival bars/owners

Frasier Crane and his upstairs neighbor Cam Winston (Brian Stokes Mitchell) were archrival snobs and condo board members on Frasier (in the episodes when Frasier's archrival wasn't his brother Niles)

Harmonious Discord
03-28-2008, 05:38 PM
Nayland Smith and Dr. Fu-Manchu
Although Dr. Petrie manages by favorable circumstance to convince Dr. Fu-Manchu he is brilliant chemist and desirable acquisition.

Robot Arm
03-28-2008, 05:39 PM
I tried to do this a while ago in the form of a quiz. There's a radio show I like that takes questions from listeners. I was going to call it "Name that Nemesis"; given the name of a character or person, name his more famous rival. Even started a thread, but I don't think we ever got enough good ones to make a full category. My two favorites:

Charles DreyfusJacques ClouseauRalph WolfSam Sheepdog

Zeldar
03-28-2008, 07:02 PM
Auburn and Alabama.

Sage Rat
03-28-2008, 08:53 PM
Godai and Mitaka from Maison Ikkoku.
Gau Ban and Scrib Lowengren from Shadow Skill.
Ayeka and Ryoko from Tenchi Muyo.

...thinking about it, I'm somewhat suspecting that the list is long in anime land...

Argent Towers
03-28-2008, 08:55 PM
Ron Burgundy and Wes Mantooth.

Sir Prize
03-28-2008, 09:30 PM
Koga and Inu Yasha
Macy's and Gimbals

BellRungBookShut-CandleSnuffed
03-28-2008, 09:42 PM
Spike Speigel and Andy :)

Robot Arm
03-28-2008, 09:55 PM
Famous arch rivals?

Burger King
box girder
Reggie

squeegee
03-28-2008, 11:38 PM
Mandark.Ha-ha-ha! Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha![/mandark]

Man, I loved that goofy toon when my son used to watch it.

Der Trihs
03-29-2008, 02:51 AM
Earl White Haven and Admiral Sonja Hemphill from the Honor Harrington novels. Proponents of competing military philosophies and rivals, they were both fundamentally after the same goal, victory in their war against Haven.

chowder
03-29-2008, 03:54 AM
Godzilla and King Kong

Alien and Predator

Sylvester and Tweetie

David and Goliath

:p

Infovore
03-29-2008, 04:13 AM
Professor Charles Xavier and Magneto.

blondebear
03-29-2008, 04:23 AM
West and Loveless
Smart and Siegfried

Annie-Xmas
03-29-2008, 12:44 PM
Seinfeld and Newman

Ponster
03-29-2008, 05:46 PM
Newton & Leibniz

cactus waltz
03-29-2008, 06:51 PM
A terrific example, which I had in mind when I wrote the thread, is Scrooge and Flintheart Glomgold in the old Barks' comics. Seinfeld and Newman is a pretty good recent example, too.

NDP
03-29-2008, 07:07 PM
Auburn and Alabama.

That reminds me, do sports rivalries count? If so, how about:

--the New York Yankees and the Boston Red Sox

--(until 1958) the New York Yankees and the Brooklyn Dodgers

--the Dallas Cowboys and the Washington Redskins

--Muhammad Ali and Joe Frazier

Horatio Hellpop
03-29-2008, 07:41 PM
Hawkeye Pierce and Charles Emerson Winchester.

fachverwirrt
03-29-2008, 08:41 PM
That reminds me, do sports rivalries count? If so, how about:

--the New York Yankees and the Boston Red Sox

--(until 1958) the New York Yankees and the Brooklyn Dodgers

--the Dallas Cowboys and the Washington Redskins

--Muhammad Ali and Joe Frazier
Cardinals and Cubs.
Dodger and Giants, which rivalry followed both teams from NY to CA.

Skald the Rhymer
03-30-2008, 04:24 PM
Sherlock Holmes and his brother, Mycroft


Except that they got along swimmingly. Mycroft was smarter, Sherlock knew it and admitted it gracefully, and neither one cared, because they weren't interested in doing the same kind of thing. Mycroft was the sit back, plan, and send someone else to do the dirty work. Sherlock enjoyed the dirty work; it let me be theatrical; he'd have gone crazy--well, crazier--cooped off like his older brother all the time.

Thudlow Boink
03-30-2008, 04:32 PM
Having just started watching The Adventures of Brisco County, Jr. on DVD...

Lord Bowler is Brisco's arch-rival (John Bly is his arch-nemesis).

msmith537
03-30-2008, 06:48 PM
Elaine Benise and Sue Ellen Mishke

Snoopy and the Red Baron

Jimmy Kimmel and Matt Damon

Starving Artist
03-30-2008, 07:09 PM
Perry Mason & Hamilton Burger

msmith537
03-30-2008, 11:57 PM
J.D. and the Janitor

maggenpye
03-31-2008, 04:42 AM
Well, the Saint had Claud Eustace Teal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claud_Eustace_Teal);

Teal's relationship with Templar varies throughout the long-running Saint series. Sometimes they are adversaries, with Teal striving to put Templar behind bars and stop his "law-bending" crimefighting ways. Templar, in return, baits Teal frequently and in The Holy Terror goes so far as to blackmail Teal (an action that earns Templar a rare rebuke from his girlfriend and partner, Patricia Holm, in the later book, Once More the Saint).

At other times, Teal and Templar maintain a cordial relationship bordering on friendship. Indeed, in several of the early Saint books (including The Holy Terror), Teal states outright that he would consider Templar a friend if they weren't on the opposite sides of the law.

And they both battled the ungodly and brought, or attempted to bring, justice to the masses.

Annie-Xmas
04-01-2008, 09:42 AM
House & Tritter

BrainGlutton
04-01-2008, 09:47 AM
Would a relationship based on one-sided hostility, like Salieri and Mozart in Amadeus, count as arch-rivalry?

Infovore
04-01-2008, 11:04 AM
House & Tritter
I would say House and Cuddy. Though they're not bitter enemies, they're constantly sparring, each one trying to get the upper hand. And House never once, as far as I could see, had a shred of respect or admiration for Tritter.

The Them
04-09-2008, 02:16 AM
Luke & Darth Vader?

Hunter Thompson & Richard Nixon? (yes, they were in RL, but they expressed themselves through fiction)

Wonder Wart-Hog & The Masked Meanie?

Myron Van Horowitzski
04-10-2008, 04:17 PM
Cole Richards and Max Power.

Don Draper
04-10-2008, 04:37 PM
Randall McMurtry and Nurse Ratched.

Dorothy and Miss Gulch / the Wicked Witch of the West.

Flash Gordon and Ming the Merciless.

the Doctor(s) and the Master(s).

Karen Walker and Beverly Leslee.

Saffy Monsoon and Patsy Stone.

Betty and Veronica.

Homer Simpson and Ned Flanders (at least, according to Homer).

Maggie Simpson and the One-eyebrowed baby.

God and the Devil.

Pazu
04-10-2008, 04:45 PM
Ranma Saotome and Ryouga Hibiki in Ranma 1/2.

OK, maybe not famous...

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