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View Full Version : What do you get when you cross a wolf and a chihuahua?


Malleus, Incus, Stapes!
03-09-2010, 10:25 AM
No, this isn't a joke (though I'm sure the smart-alecs of the Dope will be submitting punchlines shortly). A wolf and a toy dog are technically the same species, right? So if you were to crossbreed a wolf and a chihuahua (I assume artificial insemination would be involved), what sort of weird hybrid would you get. Have any bored scientists actually done this?

Ludovic
03-09-2010, 10:30 AM
Following the traditional naming convention, a male wolf crossing a female chihuahua would produce a wihuahua, although that might not be viable due to size. A male chihuahua crossing a female wolf would produce a cholf (pronounced "Chulf"). (In defense of the "no joke first replies in GQ", I'm not making up this naming tradition, even if it has never been applied in this particular instance!)

I have no idea what they'd look like, though.

dolphinboy
03-09-2010, 10:32 AM
How about a medium to smallish dog that would vaguely resemble its parents? What else would you expect to happen?

Malleus, Incus, Stapes!
03-09-2010, 10:43 AM
Well, a Shepard-Corgi cross is pretty freaky looking, and that's two breeds of domestic dog. Chihuahuas are even further away in genes and size from wolves.

mbh
03-09-2010, 10:58 AM
My grandmother had a dog. His mother was a chihuahua. We have no idea what his father was. He grew to the size and shape of a sled dog, but with slightly shorter legs. When his fur was long, he looked like a husky or a malemute. When Mom had his fur shaved one summer, he looked like a gigantic chihuahua.

CookingWithGas
03-09-2010, 11:00 AM
A wolf and a toy dog are technically the same species, right?Two different species--the wolf is canis lupus and the domestic dog is canis familiaris. I have heard of cross-breeding, but I don't know they produce fertile offspring.

Ed: Once someone bred a male chihuahua with a female wolf.
Johnny: How did they manage it?
Ed: Someone put him up to it. [rim shot]

Colibri
03-09-2010, 11:08 AM
Two different species--the wolf is canis lupus and the domestic dog is canis familiaris. I have heard of cross-breeding, but I don't know they produce fertile offspring.

Not according to modern conventions. Nowadays the tendency is to classify domestic breeds under the species name of their wild ancestors, so that dogs are considered a form of Canis lupus. Domestic dogs and wolves are fully interfertile. In fact, all species in the genus Canis, including dogs, wolves, coyotes, and jackals, are capable of producing fully interfertile hybrids in captivity.

What a wolf/chihuahua hybrid would look like would depend on which genetic alleles found in the two forms are dominant. Often the "wild-type" ancestral alleles are dominant over the alleles found in artificial breeds, so that it might be expected that a hybrid would be closer to a wolf than a chihuahua.

cjepson
03-09-2010, 11:12 AM
Ed: Once someone bred a male chihuahua with a female wolf.
Johnny: How did they manage it?
Ed: Someone put him up to it. [rim shot]

I think you got the names reversed -- Ed was the straight man! :)

running coach
03-09-2010, 11:18 AM
"Grandma, what big eyes you have"

or


A wolf that shakes.

Markxxx
03-09-2010, 11:31 AM
I have read that when you try to breed a large dog with small dog say a great dane and chihuahua, the developing embryo usually aborts itself if size becomes an issue

Sunspace
03-09-2010, 11:47 AM
I'm not sure what you'd get, but I'm imagining a pack of them yipping madly as it takes down a moose.

needscoffee
03-09-2010, 11:50 AM
Two different species--the wolf is canis lupus and the domestic dog is canis familiaris. I have heard of cross-breeding, but I don't know they produce fertile offspring.It's quite common. See Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canid_hybrid#Wolf-dog_hybrid). They are the same species, different subspecies.My grandmother had a dog. His mother was a chihuahua. We have no idea what his father was. He grew to the size and shape of a sled dog, but with slightly shorter legs. When his fur was long, he looked like a husky or a malemute. When Mom had his fur shaved one summer, he looked like a gigantic chihuahua.(Bolding mine)This is the most frightening thing I've read on this site.

John Mace
03-09-2010, 11:51 AM
Two different species--the wolf is canis lupus and the domestic dog is canis familiaris. I have heard of cross-breeding, but I don't know they produce fertile offspring.

Further to what Colibri said, the timescale just isn't there to support non-fertile offspring. The earliest date I've seen for dog domestication is about 100k years ago, but the more commonly accepted date is about 15k years ago. Neither of those dates is remotely long enough for a population of large mammals to become unable to breed successfully. Plus, it is highly unlikely that dogs and wolves were maintained as separate breeding populations for all of that time anyway.

Colibri
03-09-2010, 12:12 PM
They are the same species, different subspecies.

Not even that, according to modern convention. While dogs are often referred to as Canis lupus familiaris for convenience, they don't really fit the modern concept of a subspecies, which is a distinctive population confined to a particular geographical area. They are just the domestic variety of Canis lupus.

Wile E
03-09-2010, 12:25 PM
What do you get when you cross a wolf and chihuahua? A painful chihuahua.

Okay, seriously, first you'd have to have a really horny wolf otherwise it might decide the chihuahua is food not friend. If the chihuahua is the female and it survives the mating (you can always use artificial insemination) it will probably be unable to give birth, heck they have trouble when bred with other chihuahuas. If the chihuahua is the male then he will probably need some help with the mating or the female wolf should be asleep so she won't notice.

I've seen several dogs that people claim are crosses between a large breed and a chihuahua, usually they look more like the large breed but a little smaller. I don't think a cross that has really odd features, like large breed's head on a chihuahua body, would be viable.

One final note on breeding dogs, crosses between two purebreds do not always produce a standard looking dog. In one litter you could have some pups that resemble one parent or the other and some that look like a cross between the two and some that look entirely different. It takes several generations to produce a new breed that will have a standard look for all dogs of that breed

BrotherCadfael
03-09-2010, 12:55 PM
A chupacubara?

cgg419
03-09-2010, 01:13 PM
Well, a Shepard-Corgi cross is pretty freaky looking, and that's two breeds of domestic dog. Chihuahuas are even further away in genes and size from wolves.


Will a Corgi screw anything?


My sister has a Rottweiler-Corgi cross


Ozzy (http://img697.imageshack.us/i/ozzyz.jpg/)

Hypnagogic Jerk
03-09-2010, 02:51 PM
Well, a Shepard-Corgi cross is pretty freaky looking
You think this little guy (http://flickr.com/photos/pdb206/sets/72157622773681734/) is freaky looking? :(

janeslogin
03-09-2010, 04:08 PM
I have read that when you try to breed a large dog with small dog say a great dane and chihuahua, the developing embryo usually aborts itself if size becomes an issue

However, with a enough dollars couldn't on effect in vitro fertilization and use a surrogate bitch?

Punoqllads
03-09-2010, 04:17 PM
surrogate bitchThat would make a great band name.

Chronos
03-09-2010, 04:20 PM
On the other hand, if our guesses about my mom's dog are correct, a German shepherd-Beagle cross produces a very handsome dog.

One final note on breeding dogs, crosses between two purebreds do not always produce a standard looking dog. In one litter you could have some pups that resemble one parent or the other and some that look like a cross between the two and some that look entirely different. It takes several generations to produce a new breed that will have a standard look for all dogs of that breedIf the two original parents are true purebreeds, then all the pups in the first generation will look the same (for instance, every labradoodle will look just like every other labradoodle). But if you then breed two of those "designer breeds" together, you can get almost anything: The offspring could look just like either of the original parent breeds, or like one of the parent breeds in some characteristics and the other in others, or an intermediate between the two in some, or pretty much any combination of the traits of the parents that you can think of.

Chefguy
03-09-2010, 04:54 PM
A dirty look from the chihuahua.

Captain Amazing
03-09-2010, 04:55 PM
But if you then breed two of those "designer breeds" together, you can get almost anything: The offspring could look just like either of the original parent breeds, or like one of the parent breeds in some characteristics and the other in others, or an intermediate between the two in some, or pretty much any combination of the traits of the parents that you can think of.

And, in fact, the way you turn one of those "designer breeds" into a real breed is by deciding what standard you want for the new breed and culling the dogs that don't fit your standard. If you do this through enough generations, the dogs will breed true.

John Mace
03-09-2010, 05:18 PM
And, in fact, the way you turn one of those "designer breeds" into a real breed is by deciding what standard you want for the new breed and culling the dogs that don't fit your standard. If you do this through enough generations, the dogs will breed true.

Which is exactly how those original pure bred strains were created in the first place.

Arnold Winkelried
03-09-2010, 06:04 PM
So, there must be some mad genetic scientists out there who have tried something like the following:
artificially inseminate a female St. Bernard, Great Dane, Wolfhound or Mastiff with the sperm of a male Chihuahua, Papillon or Bichon Frise. If someone can point me to pictures of the progeny I would be vastly interested.

Chronos
03-09-2010, 06:11 PM
Does anyone know about how many generations that would take? I guess ultimately that would depend on how many different traits you incorporate into the standard of the new breed, and how many traits are shared by the two parent breeds, but a ballpark figure for typical values?

Captain Amazing
03-09-2010, 06:36 PM
Dudley Marjoribanks started breeding in 1865, and the Golden Retriever got registered as an official breed in 1903.

Oakminster
03-09-2010, 06:59 PM
I'm not sure what you'd get, but I'm imagining a pack of them yipping madly as it takes down a moose.

I dunno that it would take a whole pack of them. A wolf's size/strength with a chihuahua's attitude is gonna be one bad ass dog....

Malleus, Incus, Stapes!
03-09-2010, 07:09 PM
Okay, seriously, first you'd have to have a really horny wolf otherwise it might decide the chihuahua is food not friend. If the chihuahua is the female and it survives the mating (you can always use artificial insemination) it will probably be unable to give birth, heck they have trouble when bred with other chihuahuas. If the chihuahua is the male then he will probably need some help with the mating or the female wolf should be asleep so she won't notice.


Like I said in the OP, artificial insemination will probably be involved.

You think this little guy (http://flickr.com/photos/pdb206/sets/72157622773681734/) is freaky looking? :(

Well, no. Puppies are supposed to have really large heads. It's when it's an adult dog that has a Shepherd head and a Corgi body (http://luvmutt.com/photos/luvmutts2/otis2.jpg)(yes, that's what the one I saw looked like)- 'freaky' might not be the best word, so let's just say "strange".

Beware of Doug
03-09-2010, 07:19 PM
I don't know, but let's call it a WOOAAWAA!

Chronos
03-09-2010, 08:41 PM
Dudley Marjoribanks started breeding in 1865, and the Golden Retriever got registered as an official breed in 1903. Interesting, looking into that a bit more, it looks like the Labrador retriever was not one of the breeding stocks that went into the development of the Golden (or at least, not a pedigreed one), despite having pre-existed the event. I would have thought the breeds would be fairly closely related.

JR Brown
03-09-2010, 08:48 PM
No, this isn't a joke (though I'm sure the smart-alecs of the Dope will be submitting punchlines shortly). A wolf and a toy dog are technically the same species, right? So if you were to crossbreed a wolf and a chihuahua (I assume artificial insemination would be involved), what sort of weird hybrid would you get. Have any bored scientists actually done this?

I've seen chihuahua/medium breed crosses (from not necessarily particularly small or good-looking chihuauas), and they look like mutts, mostly, unless the other breed is something with a distinctive appearance. Chihuauas are kind of "generic dog, only really small", and they don't have that many distinctive features. I'd imagine a wolf/chihuaua hybrid would look equally nondescript.

If the two original parents are true purebreeds, then all the pups in the first generation will look the same (for instance, every labradoodle will look just like every other labradoodle).

This is really not true. Most dog breeds are not perfectly genetically homogenous, and crossbreeds can vary quite a bit between individuals, even within the same litter. Labradoodles, for instance, show significant variation in coat texture, curliness and length; some look a lot like curly-coated retrievers while some look more like old english sheepdogs and some just look like heavy-bodied poodles.

Captain Amazing
03-09-2010, 09:27 PM
Interesting, looking into that a bit more, it looks like the Labrador retriever was not one of the breeding stocks that went into the development of the Golden (or at least, not a pedigreed one), despite having pre-existed the event. I would have thought the breeds would be fairly closely related.

Well, the modern Labrador didn't really come about until the 1880s itself. Its ancestor was the St. John's Waterdog (as was the Newfie.), and St. Johns Dogs were referred to sometimes in England as Labradors, but they were different than modern Labs.

However, the breeds are closely related, because one of the dogs that went into the Golden Retriever was the Wavy Coated Retriever. The Wavy Coated Retriever was a cross between the Lesser St. John's Dog (the father of the modern Lab), and a setter. So, the Lab is the Golden's uncle, in a sense.

Wile E
03-10-2010, 01:01 AM
Like I said in the OP, artificial insemination will probably be involved.
....

Yeah, I was kinda being facetious. But most accidental crosses are unintentional and both parties have to survive the mating to produce offspring.


If the two original parents are true purebreeds, then all the pups in the first generation will look the same (for instance, every labradoodle will look just like every other labradoodle).

This is really not true. Most dog breeds are not perfectly genetically homogenous, and crossbreeds can vary quite a bit between individuals, even within the same litter. Labradoodles, for instance, show significant variation in coat texture, curliness and length; some look a lot like curly-coated retrievers while some look more like old english sheepdogs and some just look like heavy-bodied poodles.

Wile E
03-10-2010, 01:02 AM
Like I said in the OP, artificial insemination will probably be involved.
....

Yeah, I was kinda being facetious. But most accidental crosses are unintentional and both parties have to survive the mating to produce offspring.


If the two original parents are true purebreeds, then all the pups in the first generation will look the same (for instance, every labradoodle will look just like every other labradoodle).

This is really not true. Most dog breeds are not perfectly genetically homogenous, and crossbreeds can vary quite a bit between individuals, even within the same litter. Labradoodles, for instance, show significant variation in coat texture, curliness and length; some look a lot like curly-coated retrievers while some look more like old english sheepdogs and some just look like heavy-bodied poodles.

What he said. I've seen lots of litters of puppies from two different purebreds and not all the puppies look alike.

Valgard
03-10-2010, 01:18 AM
On the other hand, if our guesses about my mom's dog are correct, a German shepherd-Beagle cross produces a very handsome dog.

My folks had a dog that was half German Shepherd and half Beagle. I don't think anyone would have described her as "handsome" but she was wonderfully good-tempered.

Funny looking animal - Beagle face and ears, Shepherd coloring and Shepherd body. Beagle legs - she looked like a low-rider.

Tail...well that must have come from a beaver or something, it was more like a paddle; she didn't really wag her tail but rather her entire rear end would go into Full Wiggle Mode.

Chronos
03-10-2010, 03:18 AM
Funny looking animal - Beagle face and ears, Shepherd coloring and Shepherd body. Beagle legs - she looked like a low-rider.Bowser has a beagle face and German shepherd body, too, but his legs are well-proportioned to his body. And he's not nearly as waggy as my first dog growing up, a vizsla/presumed lab cross. He is wonderfully well-behaved, though, and is absolutely devoted to my mom.

Hypnagogic Jerk
03-10-2010, 08:27 AM
Well, no. Puppies are supposed to have really large heads. It's when it's an adult dog that has a Shepherd head and a Corgi body (http://luvmutt.com/photos/luvmutts2/otis2.jpg)(yes, that's what the one I saw looked like)- 'freaky' might not be the best word, so let's just say "strange".
I see. Although the dog in this photo has its head much closer to the camera than its body, so it's kind of hard to figure it out.

don't ask
03-10-2010, 08:36 AM
Years ago, at work, I was talking to a guy who breeds German Shepherds and I said to him, "I have worked out the perfect dog breed, the Cavalier King Charles Spaniel and Pit Bull cross. The temperament of a Cavalier King Charles Spaniel with the looks of a Pit Bull."

He looked at me and said, "Or vice versa."

Ms Boods
03-10-2010, 08:37 AM
I'd like to know what would happen if you gave the resultant hirsute hybrid a shovel :)

http://boards.academicpursuits.us/sdmb/showthread.php?t=555255

Sigmagirl
03-10-2010, 08:50 AM
Will a Corgi screw anything?


My sister has a Rottweiler-Corgi cross


Ozzy (http://img697.imageshack.us/i/ozzyz.jpg/)

Stay away from my corgis.

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