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Indyellen
05-16-2010, 09:41 PM
This is based on the movie universe. While I grew up in the 80's, I'm a girl, and so never got into the animated version, although I now realize I would've loved it.

Anyway, I was re-watching #2 this evening and the shard of the All-Spark falling through Sam's house and turning all the appliances evil brought up this question:

Why does the All-Spark only make Decepticons? If it's the source of power for all Transformers (Autobots & Decepticons), then why is it in BOTH movies that when random machinery gets touched by the All-Spark it turns evil?

Is there anything to explain this, or does Michael Bay owe me the explanation because it's all HIS idea?

Kamino Neko
05-16-2010, 10:05 PM
The Allspark doesn't create Decepticons, per se, for the most part (a particular faction who follow Megatron - most Allspark Mutations don't have any real alliance)...and I don't think it's ever really explained in any of the movieverse media why most of the Allspark creations are so hostile. (Though not all...There are a couple Autobot and human aligned 'Allspark Mutations' in the toys and non-film fiction - Landmine, Longarm, and Salvage, as well as about half of the toy-only Real Gear Robots.)

Some possible answers have been proffered. (http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Allspark_Mutation#Trivia)

To paraphrase them - the Allspark's power is being perverted in its use of creating Transformers from scratch, or, it doesn't particularly work properly with Earth technology, or, much modern tech being reverse engineered from Megatron left a taint of his Spark on it, or, the Allspark is creating feral Transformers to defend itself.

Indyellen
05-16-2010, 10:38 PM
That makes sense. Thanks!

Superhal
05-16-2010, 11:00 PM
My take on the All Spark was that life is mechanical, but morality is learned. After being brought to life, the Transformer could choose which side to join.

Raguleader
05-17-2010, 02:55 AM
I was talking with a much more religious (but if anything, nerdier) friend of mine from college about this, and the consensus we came to was that the AllSpark could create life, but it couldn't create souls. So lacking a soul, that antangible something.. that "spark", if you will, that makes people and cybertronians intelligent moral beings and not just instinct-driven animals (or machines, or whatever you define the cybertronians as), anything brought to life by the AllSpark is basically working on instinct, and is incapable of being good or evil, only being able to lash out on its strange and confusing surroundings.

I can't recall if the Kitchitrons (or whatever we're calling them) that accidentally got brought to life in the beginning of Revenge of the Fallen were working together or not, but that might just be another instinct thing, or I could be talking out of my ass, which has been known to happen on very rare occasions.

Indyellen
05-17-2010, 11:02 AM
I can't recall if the Kitchitrons (or whatever we're calling them) that accidentally got brought to life in the beginning of Revenge of the Fallen were working together or not, but that might just be another instinct thing, or I could be talking out of my ass, which has been known to happen on very rare occasions.
Well, they went upstairs looking for Sam, apparently with vengance in mind, so there was *some* working together. Of course, they also left the Allspark shard in the middle of the kitchen table, so on the other hand, there wasn't a great deal of intelligence involved, either.

smiling bandit
05-17-2010, 11:25 AM
Well, they went upstairs looking for Sam, apparently with vengance in mind, so there was *some* working together. Of course, they also left the Allspark shard in the middle of the kitchen table, so on the other hand, there wasn't a great deal of intelligence involved, either.

And apparently those minibots all knew about the whole Decepticons vs. Autobots thing and immediately chose a side. Or assumed they had to join, or something.

It was a really stupid movie.

Blaster Master
05-17-2010, 11:50 AM
To paraphrase them - the Allspark's power is being perverted in its use of creating Transformers from scratch, or, it doesn't particularly work properly with Earth technology, or, much modern tech being reverse engineered from Megatron left a taint of his Spark on it, or, the Allspark is creating feral Transformers to defend itself.

My explanation was going to be the last one. As far as I've gathered, they appear to basically be equivalent to newborns, but the primary difference is that, unlike biological newborns, they're full developed physically. As such, they fall back on the most base programming until they've learned better. Moreso, most of the examples I recall were smaller which, of course, adds to the fear response and would logically trigger an aggressive response.

Kamino Neko
05-17-2010, 12:32 PM
I was talking with a much more religious (but if anything, nerdier) friend of mine from college about this, and the consensus we came to was that the AllSpark could create life, but it couldn't create souls.

That contradicts the AllSpark's creation of the Cybertronian species - without Primus in this universe, the AllSpark is the only source of everything - their physical forms, their life, their minds, their Sparks. (And, of course, it's the AllSpark, but unless you're a multi-franchise Transformers nerd that wouldn't imply much.)

markm
05-17-2010, 12:54 PM
I thought it was explained briefly in the first movie, or maybe I'm remembering some canonical additional material. Anyway, the reason is the feral reason. When first created, they are just 'animals'. It takes time for them to learn and develop, then choose which path to take.

TBG
05-17-2010, 11:50 PM
Didn't they address that (sort of) with Wheelie and his "whadda mean I can be an Autobot?" schtick. Maybe when they're "born" they just don't know anything beyond mayhem and destruction.

Not that I particularly like the whole All Spark thing, anyway. Give me the Creation Matrix or Vector Sigma over that any day.

Kamino Neko
05-18-2010, 07:14 PM
Not really - again, 'Decepticon' is a particular faction, not just 'the violent Transformers' - you're a Decepticon if you follow Megatron (or, if you ARE Megatron, or just Really Freakin' Old (Jetfire), the Fallen).

Jetfire, Wheelie, and Soundwave are shown to be less aggressive than Ironhide (who had to be told not to kill the Witwicky's dog for piddling on him), for instance.

Wheelie may have been born a Decepticon (in the breeding pods that Starscream is running), but that doesn't really imply that newborns are always Decepticons, or always aggressive. Someone born from a breeding pod being manned by the Autobots would have been born as an Autobot in the same way.

TBG
05-20-2010, 09:07 PM
Breeding pods? I must've blinked and missed that scene.

Kamino Neko
05-20-2010, 10:05 PM
It's just after Megatron's resurrected, and just before he visits the Fallen - he's threatening Starscream and pushes him into a wall, which squeezes a dead hatchling out of one of the pods.

My last post was misworded, though - I was suggesting that as a possible origin for Wheelie, not saying that it was shown that's where he was from. (It is the only way he really makes sense, though...)

TBG
05-21-2010, 05:10 PM
Oh, okay.

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