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carnivorousplant
07-25-2011, 09:19 PM
Do shooters here have opinions of the Kel-Tec .32 ACP?
I bought one for a friend who wants to take the Arkansas Conceal & Carry course. I've not fired it yet, but after reading on the net, I'd like one myself. My only concern is that while better than a .22, it's not a lot better than throwing rocks, and the reliance on being double action only, having no safety.
The thing is concealed in my pocket, and I'm a little guy, dressing out at 120.

Sorry, I forgot to add a a link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kel-Tec_P-32

handsomeharry
07-25-2011, 09:59 PM
Do shooters here have opinions of the Kel-Tec .32 ACP?
I bought one for a friend who wants to take the Arkansas Conceal & Carry course. I've not fired it yet, but after reading on the net, I'd like one myself. My only concern is that while better than a .22, it's not a lot better than throwing rocks, and the reliance on being double action only, having no safety.
The thing is concealed in my pocket, and I'm a little guy, dressing out at 120.

Sorry, I forgot to add a a link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kel-Tec_P-32

Wish I could help, but, I have no solid info.
Closest thing is: A year or two ago I wanted to get their niner (P-9? P-11?) at any rate, it was the one that was the lightest to carry. Every review had good things to say about it. So, I went online to some forum (SDMB???) and nobody could recommend it, because the slides wore out too quickly. All of the reviews had fired about 500 shots, and that was it. After that, I lost all interest in anything by Kel Tec. OTOH, I never intend to fire more than 500 shots in any of my weapons, but, just the same...
That's all I got.

Oh, no, wait...I have something else: there's nothing wrong with a .32. If it's better than a .22, you ain't nothing bad!

Best wishes,
hh

ducati
07-25-2011, 10:08 PM
I carry one every day, and I have more guns than you have hair follicles.
Almost.

The P-32 and P3-AT are the same size, so get the .380 if you want. I like the extra 10 round mag (http://keltecweapons.com/product/p32-37-10rd-magazine/)that fills my hand better, and I like the lanyard (http://keltecweapons.com/product/p3x-lanyard/)attachment so I can wear it around my neck if I need.

Is it my first go-to weapon? Nah. I usually carry a .40, .45 or even 9mm on my belt, as well as the .32 in my front pocket.

Summertime means shorts or even a bathing suit, and I promise you that even in my lightest shorts or swimsuit, that .32 is there and it satisfies the first rule of gunfighting: bring a gun.

I don't really want to take on a couple of gang-bangers with it, but I see it like this- do you want to get shot with one? If I put one in your face at the ATM will you continue robbing me or skedaddle? Especially if I start pulling the trigger? You'll run, trust me.
If someone has the good fortune to surprise me and demand my wallet, I'll just say "OK" and reach in my pocket and come out shooting. Jarquavious won't really expect that, and Winchester Silvertips are nothing to sneeze at, no matter what caliber.

I have the hard chrome version, and like it. You'll need to put a couple hundred rounds through it to clean it up and make it reliable. Don't limp-wrist it and it will suit you fine.

You'll carry an extra mag, right? Try these (http://atlanco.com/product/24-7-series-mens-pants,15,86.htm). They also make shorts.

More than cargo pants, these have big deep front pockets. I often carry my 442 (http://smith-wesson.com/wcsstore/SmWesson2/upload/images/dealer/rev/M442_SW162810.jpg)there instead of the .32

Best part is they have a small vertical pocket at each hip for an extra mag or a knife.
I carry one of each, natch!

Get either the .32 or .380 with the extended 10 (or 9) round mag, an extra for your hip, and one in the pipe and you've got 19 or 21 rounds that no one wants coming their way.

Find a range, practice, and get a carry permit. Stay safe, and pay attention (http://selfdefenseresource.com/general/articles/awareness-color-codes.php).

Sicks Ate
07-25-2011, 10:11 PM
Yeah, I have one....but....uh....what ducati said.

carnivorousplant
07-25-2011, 10:20 PM
Winchester Silvertips are nothing to sneeze at, no matter what caliber.


Every web site on the Tec says it needs them.

I thought the .380 was a lighter load than the .32 ACP and would just annoy the the guy hit with it. It's the 9mm kurtz, is it not?

ryan
07-25-2011, 10:40 PM
.380 ACP aka 9mm Kurtz averages a 90gr slug at approx 1000 fps delivering 200ft lbs of energy vs a .32 ACP with 70grs at 900 fps and 125 ft lbs.
I'd go for the P3-AT myself.

carnivorousplant
07-25-2011, 10:49 PM
Thanks. Perhaps I will.

silenus
07-26-2011, 09:58 AM
ducati - That was a most informative post. I might actually have to look into the P3-AT myself.

ducati
07-26-2011, 04:02 PM
Perhaps I'll start an "ask the gun guy" thread!:p

EvilTOJ
07-27-2011, 02:04 AM
I have a Keltec PF9, which is very close in size and a 9mm. I like it, it fits in my pocket perfectly and the bang-y end goes pew pew pew when I want it to. I've had a few misfeeds, but I think that was from me gripping it too tight and wrong and pressing the mag release accidentally (it's my first handgun).

ducati
07-29-2011, 09:19 PM
I have a Keltec PF9, which is very close in size and a 9mm. I like it, it fits in my pocket perfectly and the bang-y end goes pew pew pew when I want it to. I've had a few misfeeds, but I think that was from me gripping it too tight and wrong and pressing the mag release accidentally (it's my first handgun).


It sounds to me like you need some training. No disrespect intended, but when you pick up a gun to fire it and drop the mag instead, it's dangerous for you and all those around you. Gripping a handgun too tightly won't cause a misfeed. A new, not broken-in gun will.

Find a range with instructors in your area and take a beginners class. You will really learn a lot, and you will become a safer shooter.

We all must strive every day to be the safest shooter we can be. We owe it to ourselves (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v677/ural/misc/shoe1.jpg), our families, and everyone within, say 200 yards! [/rant]

running coach
07-29-2011, 09:26 PM
I have a Keltec PF9, which is very close in size and a 9mm. I like it, it fits in my pocket perfectly and the bang-y end goes pew pew pew when I want it to. I've had a few misfeeds, but I think that was from me gripping it too tight and wrong and pressing the mag release accidentally (it's my first handgun).

It sounds to me like you need some training. No disrespect intended, but when you pick up a gun to fire it and drop the mag instead, it's dangerous for you and all those around you. Gripping a handgun too tightly won't cause a misfeed. A new, not broken-in gun will.

Find a range with instructors in your area and take a beginners class. You will really learn a lot, and you will become a safer shooter.

We all must strive every day to be the safest shooter we can be. We owe it to ourselves (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v677/ural/misc/shoe1.jpg), our families, and everyone within, say 200 yards! [/rant]

EvilTOJ certainly needs more practice but the mag release looks like it's in the perfect place (http://keltecweapons.com/our-guns/) for an accidental drop.

running coach
07-29-2011, 09:31 PM
Quick Google search (http://google.com/search?q=Kel-Tec+P-32&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a#sclient=psy&hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&hs=eYf&rls=org.mozilla:en-US%3Aofficial&source=hp&q=Kel-Tec+P-32+mag+drop&pbx=1&oq=Kel-Tec+P-32+mag+drop&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=2810l4865l0l5246l9l9l0l0l0l0l269l1605l0.6.3l9l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=da8c3ab7508c4c6a&biw=1522&bih=795) turns up firearm forum posts where the mag is releasing inside the holster.

Some owners have filed down the button.

carnivorousplant
07-29-2011, 09:53 PM
Quick Google search (http://google.com/search?q=Kel-Tec+P-32&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a#sclient=psy&hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&hs=eYf&rls=org.mozilla:en-US%3Aofficial&source=hp&q=Kel-Tec+P-32+mag+drop&pbx=1&oq=Kel-Tec+P-32+mag+drop&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=2810l4865l0l5246l9l9l0l0l0l0l269l1605l0.6.3l9l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=da8c3ab7508c4c6a&biw=1522&bih=795) turns up firearm forum posts where the mag is releasing inside the holster.

Some owners have filed down the button.

That sucks for something you can carry in your pants pocket or your sock.
In defense of EvilTOJ, I think my problems with the Ruger .22/.45 were with the magazine and my inexperience with that particular firearm. The .22 LR wasn't made for a semi auto, and the cartridges tend to not sit right in the mag. Seating the mag takes some attention, too.
Evil, instructors are good, I had my Dad, but you seem to know to be careful. Just go and shoot the damn thing, a lot, and you'll decide if it is your inexperience or a problem with the magazine.
Be careful !
:)

longhair75
07-31-2011, 07:57 AM
I have a Ruger LCP (http://ruger.com/products/lcp/models.html), which is nearly identical to the Kel Tech P3-AT.

Lumpy
07-31-2011, 07:52 PM
No experience with the Kel-Tec, but in general:

While a .32 would not be the gun I would choose to stop a three-hundred pound bodybuilder on PCP, it's not a BB-gun. People have died from being shot with .22s, and most people who see a gun, hear it go bang, and realize they now have a hole in them are going to be demoralized. The .32 serves the purpose it was made for: a credible firearm small enough to fit in a pocket, ankle holster, etc.

carnivorousplant
07-31-2011, 08:36 PM
...most people who see a gun, hear it go bang, and realize they now have a hole in them are going to be demoralized. The .32 serves the purpose it was made for: a credible firearm small enough to fit in a pocket, ankle holster, etc.

Let's hope we don't have to find out. I sure wouldn't want to shot by one :)

Tranquilis
08-01-2011, 03:06 PM
Also argue for the P3-AT.
OTOH, the OP was clear that he doesn't have a whole lotta bodymass to help mask the weapon, and that may argue for the slightly smaller weapon.

I'd suggest going to a range that rents Kel-Tec weapons and trying them out.

The P-32 was designed by the same guy who designed the rather legendary Grendel P-10 .380 semi-automatic pistol, so I'd expect pretty decent engineering.

EvilTOJ
08-02-2011, 02:13 AM
Thanks for the rant, ducati, nothing like being told I don't know what I'm doing. :rolleyes:

I am also left-handed, so the mag release presses into my palm a little bit. You know that meaty bit right below where your index finger connects to your palm? Yea it presses right into that button if you squeeze too hard. The mag wasn't falling all the way out, it was dropping about half an inch and the bullet would be halfway up the feedramp.

My mom has some land and we shoot her guns on it sometimes, but I've never owned guns until this year. This was also my very first time with a semi-auto, I'd only shot revolvers before. I've gone to a range a few times since then and it's all better now, and better ammo seems to have helped as well.

Also from what I've heard/read on the internet, kel-tecs have a reputation for misfeeds when they're brand new, and could use some fluff and buff (http://google.com/search?q=kel-tec+fluff+and+buff&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&safe=active) to smooth out the action. I'm gonna shoot bullets through it instead.

ducati
08-03-2011, 10:19 AM
Thanks for the rant, ducati, nothing like being told I don't know what I'm doing. :rolleyes:

I didn't say that. YOU did...

it's my first handgun

me gripping it too tight

wrong

pressing the mag release accidentally

It wasn't my intention to belittle you. Your own statements indicate a basic lack of experience and training with a dangerous weapon. I feel it would behoove you to seek an experienced firearms trainer for your own safety.

There is certainly no shame in seeking expert advice regarding firearms.
Calligraphy is something you can teach yourself since no one is in jeopardy. Firearms, forklifts, and parachutes are dangerous in the hands of a novice. They require proper training.

As an instructor, owner, and general Gun Guy I feel very strongly about gun safety and feel I would be remiss if I didn't offer the suggestion.

It's not personal. It's safety.

carnivorousplant
08-03-2011, 10:45 AM
Gentlemen, you're going to get my thread closed. :)

ducati
08-05-2011, 07:54 PM
hey, i'm fightin' ignorance, here! :)

EvilTOJ
08-05-2011, 08:12 PM
We're not fighting! It's a spirited discussion!

carnivorousplant
08-05-2011, 08:32 PM
We're not fighting! It's a spirited discussion!

There's everything from a .32, .380 to 9mm in this spirited discussion.

longhair75
08-06-2011, 08:48 AM
The fight usually starts when we start comparing the 9mm to the .45acp.......

carnivorousplant
08-06-2011, 09:45 AM
...So the 9mm is a dinky little cartridge that pokes holes in folks, and the .45 ACP is a huge cartridge that blows off extremities...what is the argument?

ducati
08-07-2011, 10:51 PM
...So the 9mm is a dinky little cartridge that pokes holes in folks, and the .45 ACP is a huge cartridge that blows off extremities...what is the argument?

Oh no you di-int!

silenus
08-07-2011, 10:56 PM
Let's see....9mm? Check. .45? Check twice. .40S&W? Check.

No argument here. :D

Airman Doors, USAF
08-08-2011, 11:25 AM
Just to get this really going, I submit to you that if you don't shoot 10mm it's because it hurts your girly wrists (http://media.photobucket.com/image/10mm%20girly%20wrists/shibumiseeker/guns/10mm-2.jpg).

OK, just playing.

I'd up the caliber to .380ACP, and if the magazine release on the Kel-Tec doesn't suit you get the Ruger LCP. We have one here and we have no complaints. It's a bit snappy, but at that size and weight anything would be. Put a Crimson Trace on it and you're all set.

carnivorousplant
08-08-2011, 11:59 AM
I'd up the caliber to .380ACP, and if the magazine release on the Kel-Tec doesn't suit you get the Ruger LCP. We have one here and we have no complaints. It's a bit snappy, but at that size and weight anything would be. Put a Crimson Trace on it and you're all set.

Ruger is a couple of hundred bucks more. It's not like I'm going to get mugged a couple of times a month. :)

Airman Doors, USAF
08-08-2011, 12:26 PM
Ruger is a couple of hundred bucks more. It's not like I'm going to get mugged a couple of times a month. :)

If the Ruger costs "a couple of hundred bucks more", go find another gun store. You can get either of them out the door for around the same price. Dear Lord, an LCP for $400 or more? It better be gold-plated or have the Crimson Trace already installed.

carnivorousplant
08-08-2011, 12:32 PM
Thanks, I'll check it out.

ducati
08-08-2011, 12:53 PM
I do love my P-32, but I have been thinking about upping the caliber of my pocket gun for a while.

And along comes the Kimber Solo (http://kimberamerica.com/solo/solo-carry/solo-carry)...
A touch heavier and pricier than the Ruger LC9, and one less round, but damn it sure looks good.

carnivorousplant
08-08-2011, 07:24 PM
And along comes the Kimber

Yeah, but like I said, I dress out at 110 now, wear kids size 16 skinny Levis, and the Tec or Ruger fit in my pants pocket!

I want the Ruger .380 with the laser sight so bad...

ducati
08-09-2011, 11:48 AM
Yeah, but like I said, I dress out at 110 now,

Sadly, I'm almost 3 of you.

I carry my P32 with the 10 round extended (http://kel-tec-cnc.com/cart2/images/2.jpg) mag in virtually (http://impactguns.com/data/default/images/catalog/150/kel_p32_10rd_mag.jpg)everything except a swimsuit or running shorts. Then, I pop in the standard (http://gbrannon.bizhat.com/p32.JPG)or +1 mag (http://1bad69.com/gallery/GunStuff/kel-tec/fingerrest/mvc-007s.jpg)for a little less weight and length.

I also have the belt clip attached (http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y95/jerrellwise/Gun%20Pics/Carry%20Guns/0905301824b.jpg), so depending on my perceived threat level I'll actually clip it to my front or back pocket with the grip out and ready to grab.

I like lasers as much as the next guy; I have a few, but this isn't the gun to spend the money on. This is an up-close, last-ditch, shove-up-the-nose-and-fire piece.

11 shots should do the trick!

carnivorousplant
08-09-2011, 11:55 AM
I like lasers as much as the next guy; I have a few, but this isn't the gun to spend the money on. This is an up-close, last-ditch, shove-up-the-nose-and-fire piece.



Yeah, I see it as a "Gimme your wallet!" "Sure, fella." kind of situation. :)

Ogre
08-09-2011, 12:42 PM
If someone has the good fortune to surprise me and demand my wallet, I'll just say "OK" and reach in my pocket and come out shooting. Jarquavious won't really expect that, and Winchester Silvertips are nothing to sneeze at, no matter what caliber.Bolding mine.

Look, I appreciate the informative post, but what the fuck is this supposed to be?

ducati
08-09-2011, 03:46 PM
It's an allusion to the statistical probability that a robber or carjacker here in the Greater Atlanta Area will be a young black male. The name stuck with me from a previous arrest I made.

Any other questions?

Ogre
08-09-2011, 03:52 PM
Ah yes, like the police officer referring to all young black men as "Tyrone". How wonderful.

carnivorousplant
08-09-2011, 03:52 PM
Jarquavious is a popular name for black guys in Atlanta?
:)

zoid
08-09-2011, 06:43 PM
We all must strive every day to be the safest shooter we can be. We owe it to ourselves (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v677/ural/misc/shoe1.jpg), our families, and everyone within, say 200 yards! [/rant]

Dude is that your foot?!
Jesus! :eek:

jamie6
08-10-2011, 11:59 AM
Just out of idle curiosity, how incredible bad of an idea is a .22 pistol loaded with hollow point in any kind of home defense? As a last resort.

I ask because the other day, at 4:30 A.M., there was this loud banging on the ground-level window of my suburban home. I tried to rationalize it as the newspaper man completely missing, but it was definitely a loud series of "knocks".

It completely terrified the shit out of me. I considered bringing out my policeman brother's firearm (his first firearm that he left here, not issued or anything) out of storage to defend myself, but I decided against it and investigated the noise anyway. I'm comfortable with firing the gun and have grow up following gun safety, but something tells me a .22 probably wouldn't have done anything.

For the curious, I can only guess it was the neighbor kids that we got grounded, for trampling in our garden, enacting revenge on us.

carnivorousplant
08-10-2011, 12:18 PM
For the curious, I can only guess it was the neighbor kids that we got grounded, for trampling in our garden, enacting revenge on us.

You certainly don't want to shoot them with anything. :)

I'd say a .22 is better than nothing, but you are going to make them very angry.

ducati
08-10-2011, 01:43 PM
A .22 is a deadly round. It will most certainly kill someone. Do I answer the door with one? No, I usually grab a .40 or .357, but don't think a .22 won't do the job. I certainly don't want to be shot with one.

That said, it's not exactly a one-shot-stop kind of round. A big guy wearing 2 or 3 layers and a heavy coat? Work on your head shots.

We recently had a woman attacked (http://wsbtv.com/news/27937389/detail.html)here in Atlanta who killed her attacker with her .22 handgun.

If it's all you have or have access too, do some research on .22 defense rounds, and go practice a bit. CCI Stingers or Velocitors should do the trick.

ducati
08-10-2011, 01:44 PM
Dude is that your foot?!
Jesus! :eek:

Not my foot, just a cautionary tale...

Tranquilis
08-10-2011, 02:43 PM
Ruger is a couple of hundred bucks more. It's not like I'm going to get mugged a couple of times a month. :)Once is all it takes. How much is your life worth?

The general advice is to buy as much gun as you're willingly practice with, AND can reasonably and willingly carry.

Any less than that, you're not taking your own life seriously enough. Any more than that, you're not taking your own life seriously enough. You have to be able to operate the weapon when you need it, instinctively and under extreme pressure - and that means practice. Lots of it. If the weapon is harsh or uncontrollable, you won't practice nearly enough. Likewise, the weapon has to be there when you need it, which means you're carrying at all times legally possible. If the weapon is too heavy, uncomfortable, or 'prints' badly enough to advertise itself, Murphy says you won't be carrying it when you need it.

Most defense writers and instructors suggest that .380 is as low as they'd willingly go, but if you can't find an appropriate weapon in the larger calibers, well, then .32 will have to do - just practice more. Much more - 'Cause with a .32, shot placement is going to be a lot more important.


While you're at it: If a weapon is prone to malfunction of any sort, like dropping a magazine, don't buy it. One failure in a thousand is more often than I'd accept, personally - Again, 'Once is all it takes.' Murphy LOVES people who accept less than stellar performance.

carnivorousplant
08-10-2011, 02:51 PM
Any less than that, you're not taking your own life seriously enough. Any more than that, you're not taking your own life seriously enough.


Pardon me?

Tranquilis
08-10-2011, 03:16 PM
Pardon me?
Thought I made that clear in my post, above. Guess not.

Let me try again, more slowly:

Choose as much gun as you can carry.
1) Ideally, you want to stop a fight before it starts, but if it comes down to shooting, you don't want to leave an angy-but-wounded assailant on their feet. You want them down. All other things being equal, bigger guns do that more reliably. Whether or not the assailant dies is entirely secondary to whether or not you've stopped the fight.

SO:
2) If you go with less gun than you can reasonably carry, you are not thinking hard enoguh about the purpose of having the weapon in the first place.


BUT:
Do not carry too much gun:

1) If you plan to use a firearm for defense, you must be ready, willing, and ABLE to use it effectively.

2) ABLE means able to operate the weapon instinctively and correctly under emotional stress and pressure, whilst likely undergoing a heavy adrenaline surge. Which means practice. LOTS of practice.

3) If you choose a weapon that over-matches your willingness to practice, practice, practice, you will not DO your practice, practice, practice, and so will be less capable of using your weapon to protect your life.

THUS:
4) you are not taking defense of your self seriously enough.

LIKEWISE:
1) If you plan to use a firearm for defense, you must be READY, willing, and able to use it effectively.

2) READY means (among other things) having the weapon on you when you need it. Since you don't know when you'll need it, prudence suggest you have it on you as often as leagally and practically possible.

IF
3) The weapon is too heavy or unwieldy, you will be tempted to leave it behind, or if it becomes too visible, you may be required to leave it behind (concealed means concelaed, after all).

THUS:
4) Choosing an over-large weapon means you've not given defense of your self sufficient thought.

ExTank
08-10-2011, 04:58 PM
^ Preach it.

Lumpy
08-10-2011, 06:01 PM
It completely terrified the shit out of me. I considered bringing out my policeman brother's firearm (his first firearm that he left here, not issued or anything) out of storage to defend myself, but I decided against it and investigated the noise anyway. I'm comfortable with firing the gun and have grow up following gun safety, but something tells me a .22 probably wouldn't have done anything.If you need a gun, chances are it's already too late by the time you bring it "out of storage".

Not trying to use a gun too large for what you can train with is sound advice; but unless concealability is an issue, the advice on one carry forum I participate in is "You want to carry less weight? Eat one sandwich less and carry a normal gun."

carnivorousplant
08-10-2011, 07:03 PM
the advice on one carry forum I participate in is "You want to carry less weight? Eat one sandwich less and carry a normal gun."

Regarding the OP, my problem is eat 1,000 sandwiches and carry a normal gun.

I'd take the .22 I was used to upon reflection. Like the link someone posted, you'd have to follow Matt Helm's advice: "Point at the center of the body(a couple of feet away, the head) and pull the long skinny thing that comes out the bottom of the gun until it quits making noise."

carnivorousplant
08-10-2011, 07:11 PM
If the Ruger costs "a couple of hundred bucks more", go find another gun store.

They both go for $250-$300, so the Ruger .380 it is. I probably can't hit anything over 20' without the Crimson Trace, but it will be a "Gimmie you wallet!" "Sure, Dude!" thing.

ChickenLegs
08-10-2011, 07:51 PM
I've heard that there are Kel-Tecs that actually work, but I've yet to see one.

I had a P32 that suffered from misfeeds and stovepipes. I never once got a full mag to go through without a jam. I kept hearing from the Kel-tec fans (who, unless they're all liars, actually had functioning P32's) that I was limp-wristing, or I needed to do a fluff and buff, or I needed to try different ammo, or find a magc Kelt-tec wand, or something. Eventually, something when wrong with the trigger - I could pull it all the way rearward but it wouldn't fire. I ditched the gun.

I bought a Ruger LCP ii .30 caliber, and about 500 rounds later, have never had a single failure of any sort, with any ammo, or any grip. None. It works everytime.

A few points:

1) Why buy a .32 when you can get a .380 in an identically-sized gun? The Ruger LCP is a better-quality copy of the Kel-tec P3AT, which is externally identical to the P32. The Smith and Wesson Bodyguard 380 is only slightly larger, and gets excellent reviews.

2) Most experts consider .380 auto the minimum caliber for self-defense. See number 1 above.

3) The FBI recommends 12" minimum penetration in ballistic gelatin for self-defense rounds. No .32 auto hollowpoints can do this. None. Unless they fail to expand. I'm not aware of any .380 auto rounds that can meet this requiremnt either. So in .380 and smaller, use hardball to achieve penetration. NO HOLLOWPOINTS in mousegun calibers.

4) No, I wouldn't want to get shot with a .32 hollowpoint. I don't want to get pinched with pliers, either, but I don't recommend you carry pliers for self defense.

carnivorousplant
08-12-2011, 09:48 PM
The TV show Burn Notice, 11 August: In one of the ads, Fiona tosses Michael a mouse gun. Was it a Kel-Tec?

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