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JackieLikesVariety
06-18-2014, 02:33 PM
I have 3 small, old dogs and when I walk them (always leashed) I often pass houses where a dog or dogs are loose. sometimes one comes running up to us or - more scary - will sneak up behind us. there is a lot of barking and jumping and while nobody has gotten hurt so far it could happen.

what would be a good thing to carry in case I need to defend them? I was thinking of asking the mail carrier what's in her holster.

Fishtar
06-18-2014, 02:41 PM
I have 3 small, old dogs and when I walk them (always leashed) I often pass houses where a dog or dogs are loose. sometimes one comes running up to us or - more scary - will sneak up behind us. there is a lot of barking and jumping and while nobody has gotten hurt so far it could happen.

what would be a good thing to carry in case I need to defend them? I was thinking of asking the mail carrier what's in her holster.

The bigger the can the better. When I worked for the electric company I once sprayed a dog with an Asp Defender. Just pissed the beast off more, and I had to kick him in the face. Also, if the wind is blowing, things may not work out well no matter what.

My grandfather from Alabama always took a heavy oak cane when he walked. Dogs understand sticks well.....

running coach
06-18-2014, 02:53 PM
This is what I use (http://gungearusa.com/SELF_DEFENSE_SPRAYS-Defense_Technology_Pepper_Spray.html), it shoots a stream so it bucks the wind better but you need good aim.

You need to get the spray in the dog's eyes or nose otherwise it does nothing.

JackieLikesVariety
06-18-2014, 03:11 PM
oh-oh, I don't have very good aim in general and in the excitement of a minimum of 4 dogs barking and jumping and my three entangling their leashes...

I might need a new plan.

the cane I will think about - at least I can't accidentally blind myself with it. probably.

1jow
06-18-2014, 03:37 PM
I carry a golf club on a Walking Trail in a Public Park. The trail is next to a public street with plenty loose dogs. Plus I walk to the park. I have not had had one to not respect the club. I carried a can of wasp spray at one point due reading it has a better distance, resistance and aim. I also read it is illegal because it could blind the dog if it is not treated.

There are too many people that will turn their dogs loose while in the park thinking they are harmless. I learned my lesson when a neighborís dog bit me. I went to the neighbor complaining his Rot was all over his 4í fence when we passed. I offered to volunteer to add 6í sections on each side. He wanted to show me the dog was friendly. He called the dog to the fence Rubbed it and asked me to rub it. I rubbed it but he bit me as I removed my hand. Animal ctrl said I was at fault since the dog was in his yard. Even though, I was the third but the only one to report the bite.

steatopygia
06-18-2014, 03:39 PM
Things do not work out well in when 2 dogs are fighting and you are trying to control one of those dogs and use bear spray.

Both dogs stopped fighting and looked at me like WTF did you do that for?

Had to go home (crying, sneezing, and coughing), shower and wash my dog.

Not sure if I would do that again.

Aquadementia
06-18-2014, 04:42 PM
My dog has been attacked a few times by larger dogs. He's the kind of dog that loves greeting strangers we meet on walks so I don't want to go around carrying offensive weapons that would weird people out.
I started carrying one of those battery powered personal alarms. They are really loud and dogs hate them. I hope it would be a distraction and make it think twice or at least give me a few seconds to get in better position. I don't know if it would stop a determined dog. The thing fits in a fist good so I figure it would hurt a little more getting hit with it then my hand.

The thing is when dogs get in a fight it happens faster then you can react. Anything you try to do to the other dog your dog is likely to get a piece of it.

Omar Little
06-18-2014, 04:57 PM
I normally carry a .22 pistol for such purposes. Fortunately, I've only had to kill 2 stray dogs that have come onto my property.

razncain
06-18-2014, 05:09 PM
Those little pepper spray cannisters that you can get at Harbor Freight are almost worthless. Hell, I piss a thicker stream than those things. Iíve used up two of those to date, and the dogs have become more aggressive now than they were before.

If you want to get serious, go with a Kimber Blaster. ( http://amazon.com/Kimber-Pepperblaster-Red-One-Size/dp/B003L75SSI) This is what my brother uses, but to date hasn't needed it. Nothing that Iím aware of will blast out so much stuff so far, but I imagine there might be some. A bit expensive for something you only get two rounds with, but I imagine youíll never have those same dogs ever bothering you again if they get a dose of it. It goes without saying be aware of the wind direction when you fire it. Iím going to try it next. Iíll let you know how it goes.

JackieLikesVariety
06-18-2014, 05:30 PM
the Kimber Blaster claims it has no blowback; I don't see how they can promise that. can I ask what your brother does that he needs it? or, just walking a dog?

yes, please let me know if you try it, although the more I think about it the more I'm going off the idea.

I started carrying one of those battery powered personal alarms. that's something to think about.

Things do not work out well in when 2 dogs are fighting and you are trying to control one of those dogs and use bear spray.
since I have 3 dogs and one of them never listens I'm thinking pandemonium. in moments of excitement, none of them listen

and my aim is poor at the best of times.



so a gun would be a really dumb idea.

GusNSpot
06-18-2014, 05:45 PM
Walk a known route that has no dogs living along it.

Less chance of a stray dog that way also.

How far would you have to go to get into open country & get permission from a land owner?

How much effort do you want to expend to get you & the dogs walked safely? How often do these altercation happen?

If it turns out you can't protect them or get them to a safe walking place, then maybe have someone who can protect them walk them for you.

If they are really old, they have seen everything already so get a tread mill and set up a video for them to watch as they trot along...... ;)

Omar Little
06-18-2014, 06:04 PM
my aim is poor at the best of times.



so a gun would be a really dumb idea.


That's why target ranges exist.

chiroptera
06-18-2014, 06:29 PM
Nobody's mentioned foaming wasp spray (http://homedepot.com/p/Harris-16-oz-Wasp-and-Yellow-Jacket-Killer-Foam-HFW-16/202664668)? :) I actually broke up a fight between two Rottweilers with this - it worked very well. One of the dogs needed veterinary-prescribed eye drops for corneal irritation for about a week afterwards, but he was fine after that.

I have a cannister of mace but it's 15 years old and in 15+ years of walking dogs I've never had to use it. I have been approached by aggressive dogs, but standing tall and stomping makes 99% of them run away.

razncain
06-18-2014, 06:49 PM
the Kimber Blaster claims it has no blowback; I don't see how they can promise that. can I ask what your brother does that he needs it? or, just walking a dog?

He’s just a big fan of Kimber guns and products, doesn’t do anything particularly dangerous, but just somebody that likes to be ready for the unexpected, and likes good quality products. He just showed up a few minutes ago at my place and I took a good look at it, and also asked him about the blowback. He’s convinced you won’t have a blowback even in the strongest of winds, so maybe that isn't even an issue with it. He quoted 80 mph winds, don’t know if that is a part of their advertising. It’s got two different barrels, with eight different orifices each and evidently has such a strong air charge, they can say it won’t have the blowback.

yes, please let me know if you try it, although the more I think about it the more I'm going off the idea.

I should have it in a few days. Just need to do my runs, I might even record for you what happens, because I’m almost certain that a pack of the same dogs will come after me as they have done dozens of times before. Two of the smallest ones are as aggressive as can be, but another two including the big brown dog are friendly, and just want to come up to me and have me pet them. So it might take a few runs before I get a good opportunity to use it without getting the big dog, but sure I’ll let you know how it goes.

So why are you considering going off the idea, and what else are you thinking about in its place?

JackieLikesVariety
06-18-2014, 06:55 PM
Walk a known route that has no dogs living along it.

Less chance of a stray dog that way also.

How far would you have to go to get into open country & get permission from a land owner?

How much effort do you want to expend to get you & the dogs walked safely? How often do these altercation happen?

If it turns out you can't protect them or get them to a safe walking place, then maybe have someone who can protect them walk them for you.

If they are really old, they have seen everything already so get a tread mill and set up a video for them to watch as they trot along...... ;)


do you happen to have two dogs named Gus and Spot? :p

I've been experimenting with walking elsewhere but have had my best luck walking early in the morning. less people to have already let their dogs out loose.

actual altercations are maybe once a month, I guess, and every time but twice it's been not too scary. but it just takes one, you know?

I would like to move the whole pack to somewhere with less people...don't sure that means fewer loose dogs though.

and the treadmill maybe for a backup plan when I can afford it - we need to be outside so the dogs can get their pee mail.

JackieLikesVariety
06-18-2014, 07:09 PM
Iím almost certain that a pack of the same dogs will come after me as they have done dozens of times before. good heavens!

um, in 80 mph winds at least the Pom would be airborne. even if I got him a tiny weighted vest he'd still tip over the minute he lifted his leg.

So why are you considering going off the idea, and what else are you thinking about in its place?

I'm having a tough time imagining hitting another dog without hitting my dogs and maybe I need to be spending those minutes picking up the smallest dog and kicking the attacking dog instead of trying to get the spray out and aim. not saying it's a perfect plan.

the times it's been scary it was a surprise, is the thing. none of us saw the dog coming.

I might just need to be paying closer attention.

Fishtar
06-18-2014, 07:28 PM
I'm having a tough time imagining hitting another dog without hitting my dogs.

Again, in my experience it really does not work that well. Dogs are low to the ground and fast and you have to get them in the face. If only one, maybe, but if a pack, forget it. With three dogs tied to you as well....I have visions of you blinded and a Rottweiler carrying off a Pomereranian for a snack.

ala A Fish Called Wanda
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qguwpiDbMws

The only reason postal workers use the spray is they get in big trouble if they are caught beating neighborhood dogs with a stick..

Learjeff
06-18-2014, 08:04 PM
I started carrying one of those battery powered personal alarms. That sounds like a great idea, or one of those little compressed air horns. My guess is that it would stop the animals short. I wonder whether I'd want to use it a few times with my dog first so it wouldn't be quite as freaked out, but then maybe it's best to stop all the dogs short and then lead them away briskly (perhaps after a good shout to the other dogs.)

I don't think the pepper spray is a great idea either.

My dog is the one who never gives up, once a scuffle starts. I suspect he might have a bit of pit bull in him. Most dogs will quit when being held down by a bigger stronger dog, but mine acts like that guy in Monty Python's Holy Grail "I'll bite your legs off!" He's a little scrapper. Fortunately it's always been squabbles with dogs who are also his buddies, and has never led to any serious fights, though they sure do sound serious. He's a rescue, from a box on a street corner in Mexico. I'm glad I'm not in your neighborhood; I think I'd have an issue to solve!

I think a good walking stick is also a good idea, if you have a free hand. I don't know how I would with more than one dog!

razncain
06-18-2014, 08:44 PM
good heavens!

um, in 80 mph winds at least the Pom would be airborne. even if I got him a tiny weighted vest he'd still tip over the minute he lifted his leg.


:D Hereís a youtube clip ( http://youtube.com/watch?v=YnWFJZkdB8Y) of a guy getting shot in the face with the Kimber Blaster II, courtesy of his wife. Gosh, I learned you still need to have a good aim.

I'm having a tough time imagining hitting another dog without hitting my dogs and maybe I need to be spending those minutes picking up the smallest dog and kicking the attacking dog instead of trying to get the spray out and aim. not saying it's a perfect plan.

the times it's been scary it was a surprise, is the thing. none of us saw the dog coming.

I might just need to be paying closer attention.

Okay, well I just run without any dogs, so that isn't a concern for me, I don't think it would be with your Kimber either, see the video. But now after seeing how much pain that guy was in, I donít know if I want to do that to another dog or not unless there were a pack of them really getting the best out of me. So far, Iíve been bitten twice, but none drew blood. I think a dog would be in some very serious pain for a long time without any water to hose him off with.

The scariest thing that ever happened to me, was a pack of four German Shepherds that spotted me from perhaps a 100 yards away, and they came at me at full speed barking and growling with one being very aggressive leading the pack. I was thinking what the hell am I going to do. My jog path is a rural road, I could have jumped over the barb wire fence, but think they would have gotten through that. I had nothing else planned, and never seen them before. About 20 feet from me, the owner from across the street starts yelling at them to knock it off, but several were ignoring the owner, and I had to stop running, and taking aggressive swings with my arms and legs to keep them away. Finally, they listened to their owner, but not before one snuck a bite in at the ankle but didnít draw blood. I would have loved to have had some stuff that day, and would have unloaded all I had, and not thought twice about it.

I watched and heard elsewhere on youtube, take it FWIW, that Kimber doesnít make them, but sells them and lets their name be on their product line. I read where Guardian Angel is also the same gun. Shelf life is four years. This one said he took advantage of the sale of buying one Kimber Blaster at full price, but getting a second one for free. I checked e-bay, but didnít see anyone doing that.

This foam spray ( http://youtube.com/watch?v=YhZvvR1Xx-w) covers a wider area, and the aim doesnít have to be near as good. I think I would have liked that one better, I do not want to have to spend that much time aiming like with the Kimber, but I imagine you may have to watch the winds a bit better if they were too strong with this one.

SeaDragonTattoo
06-18-2014, 09:58 PM
I carry pepper spray gel - from Mace, pictured here (http://mace.com/mace-pepper-spray-gel/mace-brand-families/pepper-gel/mace-peppergel-magnum-4.html). It has a good distance, and it's a stream rather than a cloud so it's more directional. I use this for walking alone and using public transit in the city.

Though I've used it and practiced with it, I really can't see myself using it in a situation where I have a dog or dogs with me, against an attacking dog. Too much risk of spraying my own dog(s).

In your situation, I would use a multi-dog lead that attaches to a waist belt, and carry a good walking stick or expandable baton that can also be clipped to the belt. You can't have enough hands free in a situation like that. A pocket sized alarm (http://mace.com/alarms-security-cameras/mace-alarms-mace-safety-mace-protection/screecher-personal-alarm.html) might be useful, but only if you can keep your other hand leash-free to use the stick if needed, too. If I had to choose, I would go with my voice and the stick.

GusNSpot
06-19-2014, 01:07 AM
Riding a small dual spot motorcycle around in the country will bring out the dogs.
If they look like they might keep coming, I stop, point at them and sternly yell, "Go to the house." If I am stopped, that takes the fun out of the chase & if not crazy dogs, in the country they have heard that phrase more than once from their master.

Had one place where a relative would bring two big boxers I think they were. The two dogs that lived there did not even bother to get up because they new I would not go faster but would stop and tell then to go home and I would not leave until they did or the master would come out & read them the riot act.

Well the 2 big boxers did not respond real well but they did not actually bite. They waited until I would try to start then chase again. I put up with this for two trips in of his relatives. Then I went by and sure nuff here they came. No one was out front but I could hear picnic sounds from the back.

I did my "Go to the house" thing which the ignored. About 100 feet past the house there was a dip where I was out of sight from that house. I stopped there and up came the dogs. I asked the in a calm voice if they really want to do this. They ignored me.n I pulled my rather large weapon from my coat pocket and fired 3 quick shots into the road near my feet.

Those dogs made Wile Coyote look like a slow poke. About a month later and all the dogs stayed in the yard.

The master that lived there was out and just waved & laughed. I waved back.

I bet they will still not chase me & it has been 3 years since I rode past that house. < VEG >

kayaker
06-19-2014, 11:29 AM
I would like to move the whole pack to somewhere with less people...don't sure that means fewer loose dogs though.

We live in the middle of nowhere and I love it. I rarely see a stray dog. When I do,if the dog is friendly I grab it and post on Facebook. We usually have the owner in less than 24 hours.

Lanzy
06-19-2014, 12:20 PM
When needed I carry two tiny cans. One is Citronella spray, it has always worked. The second is a small Air Horn, if no fight is actually started it breaks up barking growling dogs instantly. Neither is harmful.

razncain
06-19-2014, 02:04 PM
When needed I carry two tiny cans. One is Citronella spray, it has always worked. The second is a small Air Horn, if no fight is actually started it breaks up barking growling dogs instantly. Neither is harmful.

Air Horn isn't a bad idea at all for dogs. Found some neat hand pump varieties that you can get on Amazon and e-bay, so will add that to my arsenal.

JackieLikesVariety
09-29-2014, 02:28 PM
it happened this morning, I was walking the three of them and a loose dog ran at us and went right for the Pom, the smallest dog. it wasn't a dog fight, it was a dog attack - he was shaking him like he would a rat.

he is going to be OK, the vet says he will need to be put under for x rays and sutures but the bites were all around his pelvis and they think no organs were affected.

but I hadn't done anything about this - I am moving next week and basically had decided I would deal with the issue then.

I don't think spray would have helped me although I think I could maybe have used a stun gun. I had no trouble getting ahold of the dog's collar, I could have hit him with a stun gun.

my plan is to never walk all three at once anymore, only to/from the car. the oldest one is getting past walks more than around the block anyway.

god, the guilt.

GrumpyBunny
09-29-2014, 03:05 PM
I'm sorry this happened and hope for a quick recovery.

JackieLikesVariety
09-29-2014, 05:22 PM
thank you, it looks like his damage is all soft tissue - they had to sew up some muscle in one of the puncture wounds and leave a drain in. he will probably go home tomorrow and need to wear a cone so he leaves the drain alone.

I took it seriously enough to start a thread about it, thought I would do something about it sometime...and then I never did. if I had been carrying a stick or something maybe he would be home now.

he is very lucky he was wearing his harness (it got torn off) - I think the dog couldn't get a grip on his neck because of it and that is why he is still alive.

I won't walk any of them without carrying something, from now on.

Ulfreida
09-29-2014, 05:55 PM
My experience is that what you want is to snap the attacking dogs out of predator mode before they get to your dogs. Shaking is what canids do to prey they can pick up.

I know a dog trainer who has small dogs (Jacks) that she walks with the help of citronella spray. But she has a lot of it, like a quart. And she starts spraying a circle around herself and her dogs as soon as she sees a predatory dog coming. Apparently the scent gives them pause and slows them up long enough for her to get them in the face if she needs to. You don't need to disable or damage the attacking dog, you just need them to shift mental gears. Some of these types of dogs are specifically bred to keep attacking through pain, they have very high pain thresholds, so giving them pain is less important than distracting them.

chiroptera
09-29-2014, 05:59 PM
Oh poor little guy, and poor you. Probably a good thing you are moving.
I'm glad you little dog will be OK.

JackieLikesVariety
09-30-2014, 04:58 PM
My experience is that what you want is to snap the attacking dogs out of predator mode before they get to your dogs. Shaking is what canids do to prey they can pick up.

I know a dog trainer who has small dogs (Jacks) that she walks with the help of citronella spray. But she has a lot of it, like a quart. And she starts spraying a circle around herself and her dogs as soon as she sees a predatory dog coming. Apparently the scent gives them pause and slows them up long enough for her to get them in the face if she needs to. You don't need to disable or damage the attacking dog, you just need them to shift mental gears. Some of these types of dogs are specifically bred to keep attacking through pain, they have very high pain thresholds, so giving them pain is less important than distracting them.

I thought about this and you know what? I'm not willing to chance it again. I bought a T ball bat - fits in my hand perfectly - and anything like this happens again I will hit that dog's head as hard as I can. I hope I kill it.

mind you, what had happened before and what I started the thread about was a dog acting aggressive or spooky or something - yesterday's dog just flat out ran at us and went straight in to kill. I wish I could have killed it before it ripped into my dog.

oh, and Fritz the Pom is home and resting, despite meds he is going to have a long and painful recovery.

thanks to all who gave advice.

pullin
10-01-2014, 06:14 AM
I don't know the specifics of your incident (location or dog breed), but my folks were having a similar problem in their neighborhood. The problem is also compounded by their advanced age (80's) and inability to respond or run.

The aggressive dog was one of the bully breeds (Pit, Rot, something like that). After a few near-misses, my Dad decided to let the homeowner's insurance commpany solve the problem. A quick visit to a lawyer and perusal of county records found which insurance company. The lawyer sent a polite letter to the insurance company that a violent pit bull on their covered property was menacing my folks, and as a result they (my folks) needed to construct an 8 foot perimeter fence with motorized gates and specialized access for a mailboxes, etc. to protect my aging mom. The current estimates were in excess of $30,000.00 and would they (insurance) like to pay now, or after a lengthy and vicious lawsuit?

Turns out insurance companies aren't terribly keen on assuming liability for dangerous breeds, and the occupants (renters) were given the choice of homelessness or doglessness.

This solved the problem immediately, but I don't know how applicable it is to the OP.

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