PDA

View Full Version : Simple "Deliverance" (1972) question about the Mountain Men


Earl Snake-Hips Tucker
01-13-2016, 09:21 PM
I haven't read the book, so it might be a little more obivious. Anyway. . .

Were the Mountain Men planning to off the city slickers anyway, or did they decide to do it because one of them mentioned that they might have a still?

PSXer
01-13-2016, 09:35 PM
I don't think it's explicitly explained in the movie or the novel

I always assumed their plan was always to rape then kill them

so by the time the guy mentioned a still, their plan to kill them was already in motion anyway.

that's just my impression though. I don't think their intentions are ever made clear
(also I don't think it's an important question.)

Earl Snake-Hips Tucker
01-13-2016, 10:20 PM
Well, I have to admit that that question doesn't exactly rank in importance to the Isner/Mahut match (http://boards.academicpursuits.us/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12837083&postcount=3), but after all. . .
Hubble Space Telescope gives us lots of scientific data, but how much of it is useful in everyday life in 2015?
:D

PSXer
01-13-2016, 10:22 PM
I meant I don't think it's important to the plot of the movie

Lucas Jackson
01-13-2016, 10:42 PM
Pretty sure they were going to kill them from the get-go.

I think they were more amused than anything regarding the still comment.

Lucas Jackson
01-13-2016, 10:45 PM
I meant I don't think it's important to the plot of the movie

Sorry, I don't mean to be snarky (honestly) but you of people are questioning the relevancy of a question?

PSXer
01-13-2016, 10:49 PM
I'm not questioning the relevancy of the question


I'm saying the movie never addresses the question because it's not important to the story

Lucas Jackson
01-13-2016, 10:55 PM
Ok, Thanks. Not sure I agree though...

Son of a Rich
01-14-2016, 02:32 AM
What I can't figure out is why the sheriff (?) would assume that there was any interaction at all between a bunch of guys canoeing the river, and the locals. It was a pretty big swath of countryside after all.

kaylasdad99
01-14-2016, 03:22 AM
Never saw the movie; never read the book. Is there any reason moonshiners might find it convenient to base their operations near a source of running water?

Dallas Jones
01-14-2016, 03:49 AM
By the way, the guy who played the sheriff in the movie was James Dickey who wrote the book and the screenplay.

Starving Artist
01-14-2016, 03:55 AM
What I can't figure out is why the sheriff (?) would assume that there was any interaction at all between a bunch of guys canoeing the river, and the locals. It was a pretty big swath of countryside after all.Because the missing hillbillies were known to have gone into the same area of the river that the city boys had been canoeing in. Most likely the bad guys' trouble-making dispositions were known by the locals and when they hadn't shown up when they were supposed to followed by a group of city guys who'd lost one member themselves, a likely explanation was that a deadly encounter between the two groups had taken place.



As an aside, I've been reading Burt Reynolds' recent autobiography and it contains some interesting behind the scenes details about shooting Deliverance. I'll list some of them below for those who may be interested.

* Reynolds was paid only $50,000 for his role, with no back end (percentage).

* Reynolds almost drowned going over the waterfall when he got sucked into a whirlpool at the bottom. He was saved by the fact that he remembered hearing how to escape from one from a stunt man years before, which was not to fight the current, which will cause you to tire out and drown, but to swim to the bottom and let the current down there kick you out, and so that's what he did. If not for that previous conversation, Reynolds very likely would have drowned.

* The hillbilly with the missing front teeth was someone Reynolds remembered from having seen him perform fake gunfights and high falls at a Wild West tourist attraction. He stuttered and couldn't read so Reynolds had to work him on his lines, and when the guy occasionally couldn't remember his exact lines he would ad-lib. Sometimes this worked out for the better as his written line of "You ain't goin' nowhere" got turned into "You ain’t a’goin any damn wheres.”

* The rapist hillbilly was a character actor, athlete and health nut, but a little odd. The crew stayed in a nice facility at night and he could be found early every morning running nude through the sprinklers. Reynolds admired his discipline though because he held his breath for two solid minutes while they were shooting the scene where the city guys were deciding what to do with the body, and never moved or flinched despite the fact a mosquito landed on the white of his eye. He also ad-libbed the "Squeal like a pig" line when told they needed alternative dialog for the TV version, and it played so well they left it the theater version.

* The boy in the Dueling Banjos sequence was a local kid by the name of Billy Reddens. (According to the internet he works at his local Walmart and is considered a really nice guy by everyone who knows him.) Make up was used to enhance his existing features to make him look more like the boy described in the book. Reddens couldn't play the banjo so they faked it with camera angles and another person's arm and hand doing the fretwork. The song itself was recorded by a couple of bluegrass musicians in New York City.

* The author, James Dickey was quite an ass who wasn't like very much and was a lousy actor to boot. The director had to work with Dickey over and over to get a decent performance for the scenes he is in at the end, scenes which I'd always thought he was very good in.

* Reynolds deeply regrets having done the Cosmopolitan centerfold which came out shortly before the movie's release. He feels that it cost the movie and some of its actors Academy Awards.

Reynolds book is called "But Enough About Me" and it's very good - a light, quick read but well written and very entertaining, and includes chapters on a wide variety of well known stars, including Frank Sinatra, Clint Eastwood, Johnny Carson, Sally Field, Hal Needham, etc.

don't ask
01-14-2016, 05:56 AM
* Reynolds almost drowned going over the waterfall when he got sucked into a whirlpool at the bottom. He was saved by the fact that he remembered hearing how to escape from one from a stunt man years before, which was not to fight the current, which will cause you to tire out and drown, but to swim to the bottom and let the current down there kick you out, and so that's what he did. If not for that previous conversation, Reynolds very likely would have drowned.

I liked this account: Reynolds They sent a dummy over the waterfall and it looked like shit, like a dummy. So I went over the waterfall and hit a rock about a quarter of the way down and cracked my hip bone and my coccyx. They told me if I got caught in the hydro flow, swim to the bottom and it’ll shoot you out. They didn’t tell me that it would shoot me like a submarine torpedo! They couldn’t find me for five minutes. A mile down the river, they saw this nude man stumbling, crawling towards them. I’d had on these high boots and they were gone, the pants were gone, the underwear was gone, the jacket was gone. I said to Boorman, “How’s it look, John?” He said, “Like a dummy going over the waterfall.”

From Mountain Men: An oral history of Deliverance (http://atlantamagazine.com/great-reads/deliverance/)

What the .... ?!?!
01-14-2016, 08:30 AM
What I can't figure out is why the sheriff (?) would assume that there was any interaction at all between a bunch of guys canoeing the river, and the locals. It was a pretty big swath of countryside after all.

Coincidently, I just watched the movie yesterday and read Wikipedia about the plot of both the movie and the book.

Not sure when the sheriff first became suspicious but their initial story about wrecking the canoe didn't hold up. In the movie it sounded like the problem was the wrecked canoe being found upstream from where they said they wrecked it. In the book, it seems like the problem was that they found the piece of canoe earlier than when they said they had wrecked it.

Elendil's Heir
01-14-2016, 09:02 AM
Great movie.

I've long thought, as harrowing as it is most of the time, it has one of the most touching scenes I've ever seen in any movie. When the survivors are having dinner with the nice old farm couple at the end and one of them is offered some mashed potatoes (IIRC), he bursts into tears at the simple kindness of such an offer, after all the terrible things he's been through up to then.

Shodan
01-14-2016, 09:07 AM
Apropos of nothing, I proposed to my wife while we were watching the movie. It would make a better story if it were during the scene you are thinking of, but no, my timing isn't that good.

Regards,
Shodan

Starving Artist
01-14-2016, 09:38 AM
I liked this account:

From Mountain Men: An oral history of Deliverance (http://atlantamagazine.com/great-reads/deliverance/)That was a good read. Thanks for the link.

xizor
01-14-2016, 09:53 AM
Is there any reason moonshiners might find it convenient to base their operations near a source of running water?

Yes, cold water is necessary in the distillation process. My cite is the tv show Moonshiners where they repeatedly mention the need for cool, clean running water.

muldoonthief
01-14-2016, 09:55 AM
* The rapist hillbilly was a character actor, athlete and health nut, but a little odd. The crew stayed in a nice facility at night and he could be found early every morning running nude through the sprinklers. Reynolds admired his discipline though because he held his breath for two solid minutes while they were shooting the scene where the city guys were deciding what to do with the body, and never moved or flinched despite the fact a mosquito landed on the white of his eye. He also ad-libbed the "Squeal like a pig" line when told they needed alternative dialog for the TV version, and it played so well they left it the theater version.

Bill McKinney. He also played Captain Terrill (aka Capt. Redlegs) in "The Outlaw Josie Wales". So he's been killed on screen by Burt Reynolds and Clint Eastwood.

He also played the State Police captain in "First Blood", though he survived Sylvester Stallone.

Scumpup
01-14-2016, 09:59 AM
The movie implies that the mountain men had, in fact, been stalking the city boys right from when they hired locals to drop them off and drive their cars back to town. The book doesn't. In the book, it appears to be a chance encounter goes badly for the city boys. Wasn't about the still, though. Just an opportunity for the mountain men to victimize weaker men.
There was no really good reason for suspicion to be cast on the city boys at the end. The writer did things that way to point up that the city boys would never be able to rest really easy that it was all behind them.

aceplace57
01-14-2016, 11:02 AM
The movie implies that the mountain men had, in fact, been stalking the city boys right from when they hired locals to drop them off and drive their cars back to town. The book doesn't. In the book, it appears to be a chance encounter goes badly for the city boys. Wasn't about the still, though. Just an opportunity for the mountain men to victimize weaker men.
There was no really good reason for suspicion to be cast on the city boys at the end. The writer did things that way to point up that the city boys would never be able to rest really easy that it was all behind them.
It always seemed like the author set up the foundation for a sequel. How the men life's turned out in the years afterward. Who begins to crack first and can't deal with what happened. Do they turn on each other? Could have been a very good sequel. I'm not sure why it didn't happen.

John Mace
01-14-2016, 11:12 AM
Just re-watched this a few weeks ago, and I kept thinking-- what I well made movie it was! By that, I mean the technical aspects of the filming, editing and the pacing.

As for the OP, I'm not so sure the Hillbillies were going to kill the two guys. In the movie, they were stalking them, and surely they knew there were 4, not just 2.

burpo the wonder mutt
01-14-2016, 11:13 AM
Apropos of nothing, I proposed to my wife while we were watching the movie. It would make a better story if it were during the scene you are thinking of, but no, my timing isn't that good.

Regards,
Shodan

You are one sick, sick puppy. Keep up the good work.

Bark,
burpo

Son of a Rich
01-14-2016, 11:19 AM
Bill McKinney. He also played Captain Terrill (aka Capt. Redlegs) in "The Outlaw Josie Wales". So he's been killed on screen by Burt Reynolds and Clint Eastwood.

He also played the State Police captain in "First Blood", though he survived Sylvester Stallone.

...and the "quick like a bullet!" executioner in The Green Mile.

Scumpup
01-14-2016, 11:27 AM
Just re-watched this a few weeks ago, and I kept thinking-- what I well made movie it was! By that, I mean the technical aspects of the filming, editing and the pacing.

As for the OP, I'm not so sure the Hillbillies were going to kill the two guys. In the movie, they were stalking them, and surely they knew there were 4, not just 2.



The movie also implies there was more than 2 mountain men.

davidm
01-14-2016, 11:40 AM
Unfortunately, the movie has become identified with the rape scene. I've recommended it to people who haven't seen it (usually younger people) and they're not interested because, in their minds, it's just a story about homosexual rape.

Small Hen
01-14-2016, 11:46 AM
* The rapist hillbilly was a character actor, athlete and health nut, but a little odd. The crew stayed in a nice facility at night and he could be found early every morning running nude through the sprinklers. Reynolds admired his discipline though because he held his breath for two solid minutes while they were shooting the scene where the city guys were deciding what to do with the body, and never moved or flinched despite the fact a mosquito landed on the white of his eye. He also ad-libbed the "Squeal like a pig" line when told they needed alternative dialog for the TV version, and it played so well they left it the theater version.



IIRC, he got the job when, in the interview, he was asked to read the line "Take off your pants" and ad libed it as, "Pull them panties down!" and when told what he'd be pretending to do to poor Mr. Beaty, quirked an eyebrow at them and replied, "Aw hell, I guess I done worse before." Odd man indeed.

I think Deliverance is a pretty good thriller, but I have no idea what makes it so acclaimed. Seems like a lot of hyper-macho bull shit pushing an outdated view of masculinity, but then, the movie is about 40 years old, so I guess I can't fault it too hard for that. But take that away, there's not a whole lot to it, besides an exceptionally memorable rape scene.

ETA: It's also really beautifully shot. So there's that.

davidm
01-14-2016, 11:52 AM
I think it's critical of that view of masculinity. They bumble around, possibly kill an innocent man, then escape the whole situation more by sheer luck than anything else.
All of that largely to protect the masculine reputation of Ned Beatty's character.

Anaamika
01-14-2016, 11:52 AM
The movie is good, but the book is something else entirely. I enjoyed the book predominantly because of schadenfreude; I enjoyed watching these city slickers lose to the forest, in particular Lewis. I didn't like the rape scene, but it really wasn't the focus. The focus was the fear of the forest, the same fear humans have had since the dawn of time. Lewis in particular is a survivalist, who more than a little bit hopes for the end of the world so he can prove his MANLINESS, and he is pretty broken by the forest. Bobby is the sacrificial lamb, but it's the viewpoint character, the one who thinks he can't hack it, who really rises to the occasion and does what is necessary in the end - the cold-blooded stalking and murder.

Small Hen
01-14-2016, 12:37 PM
I think it's critical of that view of masculinity. They bumble around, possibly kill an innocent man, then escape the whole situation more by sheer luck than anything else.
All of that largely to protect the masculine reputation of Ned Beatty's character.

I can see that interpretation of the movie, mostly because of the previously mentioned "crying over mashed potatoes" scene, and the nightmare dream sequence at the end. But about 95% of the movie is more in line with, "Burt Reynolds is the MAY-UN! He kills rapists with a bow! Jon Voight wants to be a MAY-UN! He's not at first, because he can't kill a deer, but then he climbs a cliff wall freehand and kills a hillbilly. What a MAY-UN! Ned Beaty's lost his MAY-UN card. It's gone, bro. He can't do bad ass stuff like his buddies."

It's that last bit that gets me. I spent the movie waiting for Beaty to off the second hillbilly, but as I recall, he doesn't really do much of anything after his career defining scene. Voight ends up doing it all for him.

I'm not saying it's a bad movie. I liked it, and thought it was exciting. But I didn't see a lot of satire there, save for a scene or two.

aceplace57
01-14-2016, 12:46 PM
LOL

You folks are forgetting these men were trying to get out of those woods alive.

Masculinity had nothing to do with it. The movie is about doing whatever is necessary to survive. Survival is the most primal human response we all have.

This was a Lord of the Flies moment for these men. Brief, but still very raw and primal.

billfish678
01-14-2016, 12:59 PM
IIRC, he got the job when, in the interview, he was asked to read the line "Take off your pants" and ad libed it as, "Pull them panties down!" t.

Obviously workplace sexual harassment standards were a bit more relaxed back in the day.

Sampiro
01-14-2016, 01:11 PM
* Reynolds was paid only $50,000 for his role, with no back end (percentage).



Ned Beatty got even less money, but he had a much more memorable back end deal.

I assumed the mountain men rob and kill rich city folks for their money (this being before the credit cards were as big they'd have had a lot more cash) and their gear. The rape is just an extra.

Elendil's Heir
01-14-2016, 01:43 PM
Ned Beatty got even less money, but he had a much more memorable back end deal....
This? This right here? This is why you have to be killed.

Small Hen
01-14-2016, 01:46 PM
This? This right here? This is why you have to be killed.

I'll admit it - I laughed.

Scumpup
01-14-2016, 01:51 PM
They don't make movies quite like it anymore. If you think about it, there isn't a whole lot of action and violence in the movie. The rape scene and the killing of the second, possibly uninvolved, hillbilly are only a few minutes. The dangerous whitewater canoeing scenes are only a few minutes more. Mostly, it is talking. More recent man against nature films that I have seen tend to be a lot bloodier and a lot less believable. One exception to that was the one about Robert Redford taking hours and hours to not quite drown.

Small Hen
01-14-2016, 02:26 PM
LOL

You folks are forgetting these men were trying to get out of those woods alive.

Masculinity had nothing to do with it. The movie is about doing whatever is necessary to survive. Survival is the most primal human response we all have.

This was a Lord of the Flies moment for these men. Brief, but still very raw and primal.

Masculinity had everything to do with it, whether you think the movie had a straightforward or satirical view of masculine ideals. Look at character with the biggest arc in the film. Ed (Voight) is a successful suburbanite with a wife and child, but that isn't enough. He's not a leader. He lets Lewis (Reynolds) take the lead at all times. He wants to kill a deer, but can't. Leader, hunter, killer. Traditionally masculine ideals. Ed is witness to Bobby (Beatty) being 'feminized' and is threatened with it himself. Lewis rescues him in the most testosterone fueled way possible. He kills the rapist brutally. Once Lewis is hurt, Ed takes on a leadership role, and acquires more masculine abilities (by magic, presumably). He becomes a killer, a protector, a leader. According to the culture of the time, he becomes a man.

The fact that Ed is eventually at least somewhat traumatized by these events does support a satirical read of the movie, though. It would be interesting to double feature this with Fight Club and compare the two.

Doyle
01-14-2016, 02:35 PM
The movie implies that the mountain men had, in fact, been stalking the city boys right from when they hired locals to drop them off and drive their cars back to town.

I don't remember anything suggesting they were stalking them. Please remind me.

Scumpup
01-14-2016, 02:37 PM
As they are leaving the village for where they will put into the river, we glimpse some other locals (not clearly enough to know for sure if they are the rapists) piling into their own vehicle to follow.

Anaamika
01-14-2016, 02:41 PM
Masculinity had everything to do with it, whether you think the movie had a straightforward or satirical view of masculine ideals. Look at character with the biggest arc in the film. Ed (Voight) is a successful suburbanite with a wife and child, but that isn't enough. He's not a leader. He lets Lewis (Reynolds) take the lead at all times. He wants to kill a deer, but can't. Leader, hunter, killer. Traditionally masculine ideals. Ed is witness to Bobby (Beatty) being 'feminized' and is threatened with it himself. Lewis rescues him in the most testosterone fueled way possible. He kills the rapist brutally. Once Lewis is hurt, Ed takes on a leadership role, and acquires more masculine abilities (by magic, presumably). He becomes a killer, a protector, a leader. According to the culture of the time, he becomes a man.

The fact that Ed is eventually at least somewhat traumatized by these events does support a satirical read of the movie, though. It would be interesting to double feature this with Fight Club and compare the two.

Your last statement is just as important, I think, as the rest. The book goes into more detail about the mark it left on Ed, and it left marks (obviously) on all of them.

One dead
One raped
One man severely physically injured, but more than that, his faith in himself as being the Uber man is kind of broken
One man who became a Man, but lost his sense of who he was and shows the beginnings of detachment to society

I would not be surprised to see Ed on a clock tower in the future.

Small Hen
01-14-2016, 03:37 PM
Your last statement is just as important, I think, as the rest. The book goes into more detail about the mark it left on Ed, and it left marks (obviously) on all of them.

One dead
One raped
One man severely physically injured, but more than that, his faith in himself as being the Uber man is kind of broken
One man who became a Man, but lost his sense of who he was and shows the beginnings of detachment to society

I would not be surprised to see Ed on a clock tower in the future.

I've never read the book, although perhaps I should. I've heard very good things. I'm a little more on the fence about my interpretation of the movie now, having participated in this thread. But I still think the movie very much glorifies the macho violence, with a little addendum about how bad it is tacked on. Maybe Boorman was having his cake and eating it too.

From the movie I didn't get that Ed was so much becoming detached from society as showing possible signs of PTSD (from only the one scene at the end, it's hard to tell). But it sounds like the book goes into that more.

Laggard
01-14-2016, 04:02 PM
Something that's been debated is whether or not Drew intentionally fell from the canoe and killed himself. I've watched the scene dozens of times and can't decide if he accidentally fell or did it himself. Curious what the book says.

burpo the wonder mutt
01-14-2016, 04:11 PM
Wasn't Drew shot in the head? And then fell over? And you didn't hear it because of the rapids?

Doyle
01-14-2016, 04:29 PM
Wasn't Drew shot in the head? And then fell over? And you didn't hear it because of the rapids?

When they examined the Drew's body, they were unable to determine if his wound was from a rock or a shot.

davidm
01-14-2016, 04:39 PM
Dueling Banjos
https://youtu.be/mpL0Q2OSRwQ

TreacherousCretin
01-14-2016, 05:56 PM
Most likely the bad guys' trouble-making dispositions were known by the locals...
Correct. From the book:
"Sheriff: Ok. So long. Have a good trip.
Ed: So long. And I hope Deputy Queen finds his brother-in-law.
Sheriff: Aw, he'll come in drunk. He's a mean bastard anyway. Old Queen's sister'd be better off without him. So would everybody else."


The movie is good, but the book is something else entirely.

I've never read the book, although perhaps I should. I've heard very good things.
I can't recommend the book strongly enough. One of my five desert island books, I've read it several times since the 70's. I find Dickey's story (and his real life persona) a little disturbing, but the craftsmanship, artistry, and beauty of his writing in Deliverance is breathtaking.

When they examined the Drew's body, they were unable to determine if his wound was from a rock or a shot.
Book again: Ed and Bobby can't tell whether or not Drew's (corpse) headwound is from a bullet, so they force Lewis to look at it. Lewis is very badly injured at this point, but is the only one with experience in such matters. Lewis needs only a glance to determine Drew was grazed by a bullet.

As they are leaving the village for where they will put into the river, we glimpse some other locals (not clearly enough to know for sure if they are the rapists) piling into their own vehicle to follow.
The Griners have agreed to follow the guys to the put-in spot on the river in order to drive the cars to the take-out point downstream. They can't accomplish that without following them to that departure spot.

Scumpup
01-14-2016, 06:08 PM
Yes, but we see one of them, who might or might not be the toothless bastard, throw a gun in the following vehicle, IIRC, and the gun is a double barrel shotgun as used in the rape scene.

TreacherousCretin
01-14-2016, 11:36 PM
Yes, but we see one of them, who might or might not be the toothless bastard, throw a gun in the following vehicle, IIRC, and the gun is a double barrel shotgun as used in the rape scene.

Ah. Looks like I'll have to watch it again.

Miller
01-14-2016, 11:59 PM
But I didn't see a lot of satire there, save for a scene or two.

I don't think the movie is a satire at all, but it's still an absolutely savage deconstruction of toxic modes of masculinity. I don't know if that was the intent - knowing what I do about both Boorman and Dickey, I tend to doubt it - but taking the work of its own, the message I get is that the concept of masculinity that all these characters are pursuing from the very beginning of he movie ultimately destroys all of them. Watching it as a man, there's not a single character there that I would want to emulate. It is, to me, not an aspirational film, but a cautionary one. "Do not be like these men," is what I get from it.

Ranger Jeff
01-15-2016, 12:09 AM
Bill McKinney. He also played Captain Terrill (aka Capt. Redlegs) in "The Outlaw Josie Wales". So he's been killed on screen by Burt Reynolds and Clint Eastwood.

He also played the State Police captain in "First Blood", though he survived Sylvester Stallone.

He was also the blond hippie that played a guitarlike instrument in that Eden episode of ST:TOS, if you can reach.

muldoonthief
01-15-2016, 07:50 AM
He was also the blond hippie that played a guitarlike instrument in that Eden episode of ST:TOS, if you can reach.
Not according to his imdb page (http://imdb.com/name/nm0571853/?ref_=nv_sr_1). Doesn't list Star Trek at all.

If you mean this guy (https://youtube.com/watch?v=-pNQYHvhnms), that was actually Charles Napier (http://imdb.com/title/tt0708482/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1), which is actually far more surprising IMHO.

Elendil's Heir
01-15-2016, 02:00 PM
...I find Dickey's story (and his real life persona) a little disturbing....
How come?: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Dickey

TreacherousCretin
01-15-2016, 03:52 PM
How come?: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Dickey

Clarification:
My praises for the book notwithstanding, I do find the story a bit disturbing.

I've read that Dickey could be a blustery macho asshole. One illuminating account was Summer Of Deliverance, written by Dickey's journalist son Christopher.

TreacherousCretin
01-15-2016, 04:01 PM
I don't think the movie is a satire at all, but it's still an absolutely savage deconstruction of toxic modes of masculinity. I don't know if that was the intent - knowing what I do about both Boorman and Dickey, I tend to doubt it - but taking the work of its own, the message I get is that the concept of masculinity that all these characters are pursuing from the very beginning of he movie ultimately destroys all of them. Watching it as a man, there's not a single character there that I would want to emulate. It is, to me, not an aspirational film, but a cautionary one. "Do not be like these men," is what I get from it.

I think you're absolutely right. Especially the line I bolded.

Elendil's Heir
01-15-2016, 04:11 PM
Thanks, TC.

Malthus
01-15-2016, 04:34 PM
How come?: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Dickey

Clearly, because of his work in advertising. Or maybe because of his failure in his work in advertising.

He then worked for several years in advertising, most notably writing copy and helping direct creative work on the Coca-Cola and Lay's Potato Chips campaign. He once said he embarked on his advertising career in order to "make some bucks." Dickey also said "I was selling my soul to the devil all day... and trying to buy it back at night." He was ultimately fired for shirking his work responsibilities.

Just think of what he might have accomplished, if he'd put his Deliverance work into his advertising copy for Coke: "Squeal Like a Pig!" may have replaced "The Pause that Refreshes!". :D

Elendil's Heir
01-15-2016, 10:56 PM
Only problem is, the target audience for such an ad campaign doesn't have enough disposable income to interest the Coca-Cola Co.

Small Hen
01-16-2016, 08:16 AM
I don't think the movie is a satire at all, but it's still an absolutely savage deconstruction of toxic modes of masculinity. I don't know if that was the intent - knowing what I do about both Boorman and Dickey, I tend to doubt it - but taking the work of its own, the message I get is that the concept of masculinity that all these characters are pursuing from the very beginning of he movie ultimately destroys all of them. Watching it as a man, there's not a single character there that I would want to emulate. It is, to me, not an aspirational film, but a cautionary one. "Do not be like these men," is what I get from it.

I like this interpretation a lot too, especially as I subscribe to the philosophy of 'kill the author' when it comes to analysis. I'm always interested in unintentional themes in film and literature.

I'm going to have to give this movie another look sometime. I think I'll read the book, at any rate.

Earl Snake-Hips Tucker
01-17-2016, 08:37 AM
Thanks, everyone.

Best Topics: dr strange amazon dalworthington gardens police wheel skidding cramp in throat faux scallops counterfeit penny rocky wins vodka breath pba sticker iv bottles homosexual experimentation miss susie soft packs sloth moving fast nipple tit nails curving inward wolverine animal attacking bullhead clap ground contact 2x4 buy iron filings cuban versailles thunder chief song doritos price archer foil swan impeller drive ahmed pronunciation dividing by percentages fishhooking sex i hate nature abc backwards neighbor revenge ideas eyebuydirect try on sit vis vobiscum what does gop mean in the republican party why does water come out of my exhaust how hard is political science can you rejoin the military after being honorably discharged how to make ground beef tender what do baby snapping turtles eat as a pet shoes wearing on the outside antifreeze stop leak reviews can you get poison ivy from your dog never had a cavity root canal without anesthetic fat albert buck buck was man on fire a true story movie is desmond harrington sick is verified by visa legit bathroom vent to attic 99.9 f to c african american green eyes how to stay up 48 hours clicking in left ear how long does it take to get a social security card in person churches that require tithing how long do car alarms go off star trek paperback books red vs green jalapenos what does mechanically inclined mean how to set up automatic payment bank of america credit card cat wont stop peeing on couch playmates who have done porn my car failed emissions test what is prince charles' last name dr drew narcissism test what if house does not appraise for sale price how long does it take for drano to work